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Thread: Former CIA operative on the Iranian Threat

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4370291]The point wasn't that have black employees numb nuts.

    The point was ask any minority that actually knows me how big of a racist I am....

    You know nothing about me so STFU.....[/QUOTE]

    I haven't met a racist yet who thinks they are a racist. You employ minorities and made sure we all know, good for you. :zzz:

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Raug;4370264]Wait, what? That sounds mental, but please elaborate.[/QUOTE]


    Many German citizens of varying ages with whom I spoke had no regard whatever for the Jews. The older ones were fully aware of what was going on nan thought it appropriate. Their only regreat was having us kick their butts. BTW, many Danes feel the same way.
    Let's not forget that the Germans have had a serious hate relationship with Jews from about 1000 AD to WWII with many pogroms.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4370302]I haven't met a racist yet who thinks they are a racist. You employ minorities and made sure we all know, good for you. :zzz:[/QUOTE]

    I haven't met a libtard yet that didn't use the race card.

    It's old... it's tired... it's worn out. Americans are sick of it. Read the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.....

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4370332]I haven't met a libtard yet that didn't use the race card.

    It's old... it's tired... it's worn out. Americans are sick of it. [B]Read the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.....[/QUOTE][/B]


    Why, everyone knows he was just an anti-wolfite. :confused:

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4370325]Many German citizens of varying ages with whom I spoke had no regard whatever for the Jews. The older ones were fully aware of what was going on nan thought it appropriate. Their only regreat was having us kick their butts. BTW, many Danes feel the same way.
    Let's not forget that the Germans have had a serious hate relationship with Jews from about 1000 AD to WWII with many pogroms.[/QUOTE]

    OK, yeah, that's complete BS. Unless you've spent your time with the NPD, although I get the feeling that you only were in the country to wait for a connection flight. The above-mentioned NPD or other extreme-right-wing parties never gained any national influence and at max maybe 2 or 3 seats on state-senates, if any at all. No German I ever met had any resentments towards Jews, and although it might be different in the east because it was controlled by the SU which discriminated against them as well, I don't really think so. There is still a small hostility towards Romani people but much less so then in Spain or some South American countries in my experience (might be wrong, personal experience only).
    And BS to the last point too: Most research shows that, while a lot of Germans during the war were indeed aware that Jews were transported away (and did indeed not care much for them), it was officially called "relocation" and believed by most people. Camps were thought as POW-camps with maybe forced labor or some Guantanamo-style stuff. Talking about what actually happened in the camps was forbidden by death penalty, because the government knew that, while Jews were not well liked, killing them would not sit well with the general population and might spark rebellion.


    An accurate description of Nazi-Germany and the reasons behind, see [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Long-Road-West-v/dp/0199265976/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329406066&sr=8-1"]Germany: The Long Road West[/URL] part 1 and part 2. It's a bit academic, so you wont read it, but it is one of the best books about Germany history.
    I don't know danish history, but I call BS there as well.
    [IMG]http://www.pitch.com/binary/597a/themoreyouknow.jpg[/IMG]

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4370325]Many German citizens of varying ages with whom I spoke had no regard whatever for the Jews. The older ones were fully aware of what was going on nan thought it appropriate. Their only regreat was having us kick their butts. BTW, many Danes feel the same way.
    Let's not forget that the Germans have had a serious hate relationship with Jews from about 1000 AD to WWII with many pogroms.[/QUOTE]

    The people making claims that the German people were duped by Hitler are the worst kind of revisionists. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf years before he was elected to office. His ran on a platform blaming Jews for the countries woes. The majority of Germans at the time enthusiastically supported him and happily ratted out Jews in hiding.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Raug;4370367]OK, yeah, that's complete BS. Unless you've spent your time with the NPD, although I get the feeling that you only were in the country to wait for a connection flight. The above-mentioned NPD or other extreme-right-wing parties never gained any national influence and at max maybe 2 or 3 seats on state-senates, if any at all. No German I ever met had any resentments towards Jews, and although it might be different in the east because it was controlled by the SU which discriminated against them as well, I don't really think so. There is still a small hostility towards Romani people but much less so then in Spain or some South American countries in my experience (might be wrong, personal experience only).
    And BS to the last point too: Most research shows that, while a lot of Germans during the war were indeed aware that Jews were transported away (and did indeed not care much for them), it was officially called "relocation" and believed by most people. Camps were thought as POW-camps with maybe forced labor or some Guantanamo-style stuff. Talking about what actually happened in the camps was forbidden by death penalty, because the government knew that, while Jews were not well liked, killing them would not sit well with the general population and might spark rebellion.


    An accurate description of Nazi-Germany and the reasons behind, see [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Long-Road-West-v/dp/0199265976/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329406066&sr=8-1"]Germany: The Long Road West[/URL] part 1 and part 2. It's a bit academic, so you wont read it, but it is one of the best books about Germany history.
    I don't know danish history, but I call BS there as well.
    [IMG]http://www.pitch.com/binary/597a/themoreyouknow.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

    So to clarify you are saying that the Germans had no problem with taking citizens that had lived there for hundreds of years and tearing them out of their homes and sending them off to POW camps? But had they known that these were death camps then well.. that's different? I'd like to understand your point of view here.

    To summarize, you say its ok for governments to go to undesirable innocent peoples houses and ship them to work camps. That's fine but the murders are what took it overboard? Who cares about a bunch of crooked Jews anyway right??

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=Raug;4370367]OK, yeah, that's complete BS. Unless you've spent your time with the NPD, although I get the feeling that you only were in the country to wait for a connection flight. The above-mentioned NPD or other extreme-right-wing parties never gained any national influence and at max maybe 2 or 3 seats on state-senates, if any at all. No German I ever met had any resentments towards Jews, and although it might be different in the east because it was controlled by the SU which discriminated against them as well, I don't really think so. There is still a small hostility towards Romani people but much less so then in Spain or some South American countries in my experience (might be wrong, personal experience only).
    And BS to the last point too: Most research shows that, while a lot of Germans during the war were indeed aware that Jews were transported away (and did indeed not care much for them), it was officially called "relocation" and believed by most people. Camps were thought as POW-camps with maybe forced labor or some Guantanamo-style stuff. Talking about what actually happened in the camps was forbidden by death penalty, because the government knew that, while Jews were not well liked, killing them would not sit well with the general population and might spark rebellion.


    An accurate description of Nazi-Germany and the reasons behind, see [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Germany-Long-Road-West-v/dp/0199265976/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329406066&sr=8-1"]Germany: The Long Road West[/URL] part 1 and part 2. It's a bit academic, so you wont read it, but it is one of the best books about Germany history.
    I don't know danish history, but I call BS there as well.
    [IMG]http://www.pitch.com/binary/597a/themoreyouknow.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]




    Typical German attitude. I served in the U.S. Army as an officer in Germany. In my capacity I had the opportunity to interface with German Army officers, regular civilians and because our Army tends to assign its officers to local "responsibilities" I also had a chance to know local officials. I am right and YOU are wrong.
    As for quoting self serving books. Give me a break. BTW, I am certain I have a better education than you and DO speak German fluently (though I am a little out of practice).
    No German you ever met didn't like Jews? Riduiculous. Another self serving German statement. Not sure your age but revisionism at work. For clarification check with your grandfather - a sturmgruppenfuhrer, I am sure. Perhaps an ober SGF.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4370373]So to clarify you are saying that the Germans had no problem with taking citizens that had lived there for hundreds of years and tearing them out of their homes and sending them off to POW camps? [/QUOTE]
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment[/url]
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States#Refugees_from_Nazi_Germany[/url]
    or, even newer and nobody cares about:
    [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/americans-face-guantanamo-detention-obama[/url]

    So yes, I'd say that imprison is different than murder, but obviously it is also wrong. But stating that "everyone knew what was going on" is just not true - nobody really did, not to that extend, that's why the allies were so shocked when entering the camps and Germans initially believed it is just allied propaganda.

    [quote]
    Typical German attitude. I served in the U.S. Army as an officer in Germany. In my capacity I had the opportunity to interface with German Army officers, regular civilians and because our Army tends to assign its officers to local "responsibilities" I also had a chance to know local officials. I am right and YOU are wrong.
    As for quoting self serving books. Give me a break. BTW, I am certain I have a better education than you and DO speak German fluently (though I am a little out of practice).
    No German you ever met didn't like Jews? Riduiculous. Another self serving German statement. Not sure your age but revisionism at work. For clarification check with your grandfather - a sturmgruppenfuhrer, I am sure. Perhaps an ober SGF. [/quote]
    Yeah, you do sound very educated, and calling Winkler a "revisionist" shows it off perfectly.
    I also served in the army, and to be fair, a surprising number of military people are very conservative, so I'd give you the benefit of the doubt that you met some... interesting people there. But saying that most Germans support the Third Reich nowadays, even when most polls and research contradicts it, is dumb.

    Edit: I completely forgot to add more pointless pictures!
    [IMG]http://www.funnyforumpics.com//forums/Thread-Hijack/1/Hijack-AirForce1.jpg[/IMG]
    Last edited by Raug; 02-16-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Raug;4370519]

    So yes, I'd say that imprison is different than murder, but obviously it is also wrong. But stating that "everyone knew what was going on" is just not true - nobody really did, not to that extend, that's why the allies were so shocked when entering the camps and Germans initially believed it is just allied propaganda.

    [/IMG][/QUOTE]

    When you compare the detainment of terrorists at Guantanamo to the roundup and murder of innocent citizens it just makes your argument sound worse. Germany has done its best to reconcile with its past sins. That's a good thing. It is important that all societies learn from past injustices and make every effort never to repeat them.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=Equilibrium;4367016]All neutron warheads, officially known as Enhanced Radiation Weapons, were retired from the US arsenal by about 1992.[/QUOTE]

    then we gotta do it messy. oh well.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4370536]When you compare the detainment of terrorists at Guantanamo to the roundup and murder of innocent citizens it just makes your argument sound worse.[/quote]
    See, but that is the point - a lot of "normal" people did not see murder of innocent but detainments (until the war is over) and relocations.
    Btw, it is not terrorists who can be detained in this new law, but US-citizens who are suspected to have connections with terrorists, who could be basically anyone who ever ate a kebab. (On a serious note, this law is really dangerous imo - I mean, without a trial, you can't possibly prove your innocence)

    [quote]Germany has done its best to reconcile with its past sins. That's a good thing. It is important that all societies learn from past injustices and make every effort never to repeat them.[/QUOTE]
    Very true. Though to be honest, there is still stuff Germany tries to avoid talking about, like what happened with the Nazi Bureaucracy (hint: mostly nothing).

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4370302]I haven't met a racist yet who thinks they are a racist. You employ minorities and made sure we all know, good for you. :zzz:[/QUOTE]

    Try to separate the hate for the poster from the hate for people. Dean may get under your skin, but you are labeling him a racist, which won't be tolerated in here.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4370373]So to clarify you are saying that the Germans had no problem with taking citizens that had lived there for hundreds of years and tearing them out of their homes and sending them off to POW camps? But had they known that these were death camps then well.. that's different? I'd like to understand your point of view here.

    To summarize, you say its ok for governments to go to undesirable innocent peoples houses and ship them to work camps. That's fine but the murders are what took it overboard? Who cares about a bunch of crooked Jews anyway right??[/QUOTE]

    Not to mention before sending them off to "work" camps they systematically terrorized them stole their property and stiped them of any human dignity.

    The sad thing to me is that 68 years later there is still a pervasive attempt to deny the history that sadly looks like it will outlive the survivors.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=Raug;4370519][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment[/url]
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States#Refugees_from_Nazi_Germany[/url]
    or, even newer and nobody cares about:
    [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/americans-face-guantanamo-detention-obama[/url]

    So yes, I'd say that imprison is different than murder, but obviously it is also wrong. But stating that "everyone knew what was going on" is just not true - nobody really did, not to that extend, that's why the allies were so shocked when entering the camps and Germans initially believed it is just allied propaganda.


    Yeah, you do sound very educated, and calling Winkler a "revisionist" shows it off perfectly.
    I also served in the army, and to be fair, a surprising number of military people are very conservative, so I'd give you the benefit of the doubt that you met some... interesting people there. But saying that most Germans support the Third Reich nowadays, even when most polls and research contradicts it, is dumb.

    Edit: I completely forgot to add more pointless pictures!
    [IMG]http://www.funnyforumpics.com//forums/Thread-Hijack/1/Hijack-AirForce1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


    Now you are really showing you're a dummy.
    Nowhere did I say nowadays. The period in questioant is WWII and the period leading up to it. That's when Hitler was around - right? The German people of that period were complicit in the Final Solution. My initial exposure to that country and it's people began over 40 year ago. And the Danes 35 years ago. Their attitudes haves moderated over the years as older people die off.
    It does not change the fact that Germans who came of age prior to WWII were anti Semitic monsters. For the most part.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4371105]
    Nowhere did I say nowadays. [/QUOTE]

    Well, when you wrote "[I] did have an opportunity to converse with [German] people - they knew, acknowledged and supported the actions of the Third Reich."
    and "Many German citizens of varying ages with whom I spoke had no regard whatever for the Jews"
    then this sounds very much like nowadays. Unless you went to Germany in the 1930s.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Raug;4371142]Well, when you wrote "[I] did have an opportunity to converse with [German] people - they knew, acknowledged and supported the actions of the Third Reich."
    and "Many German citizens of varying ages with whom I spoke had no regard whatever for the Jews"
    then this sounds very much like nowadays. Unless you went to Germany in the 1930s.[/QUOTE]

    Well, considering that my exposure to Germans in Germany began in 1969, I had the opportunity to deal with many people alive during WWII, some still not very old (40s) and some former soldiers. And they were very anti Semitic. Germans, like many Europeans, tend not to "couch" comments but speak frankly. There was no misinterpreting the comments.
    As an aside, the professor I had for German in college (3 years) served in immediate post war Germany as a U.S. Army officer as a military "governor" of a district in Germany. His observations were the same as mine some 20 odd years later.
    BTW, ever smell burning human flesh? I have. It's unmistakable and not forgotten. So the fine Germans around the concentration camps ( and there were plenty in Germany proper) had no idea? Germans, who are very intelligent, suddenly became stupid? Is it Sergeant Schultz, " I see nothing. I know nothing".
    I say again - an evil people.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4371725]
    As an aside, the professor I had for German in college (3 years) [/quote]
    3 YEARS?!?!?! THAT MAKES YOU SO SMARTZZ!!!!!
    [SIZE="1"]Although for some reason it did not teach you the non-existing value of anecdotal evidence.[/SIZE]

    [quote]I say again - an evil people.[/QUOTE]
    If that is what you learned from history, I pity you. Because this means that no other people would ever commit atrocious crimes against others, which is dangerous (and racist, considering that apparently being of a certain nationality can make you evil). If genocide makes a people evil, then other evil nations are:
    Argentina, Australia, China, France, Great Britain, Russia, Spain, Turkey, and not to forget, the USA amongst many more, see:
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history[/url]

    As you can see, this is BS, so maybe instead we could try to find the actual lesson to learn from WW2, which is what about all of the historical researcher are trying to do, but I personally got bored by this discussion now and will instead drink some scotch.
    [IMG]http://images.inmagine.com/img/inkbyaflo/ik1062/ik1062025.jpg[/IMG]

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=WestCoastOffensive;4371025]Try to separate the hate for the poster from the hate for people. Dean may get under your skin, but you are labeling him a racist, which won't be tolerated in here.[/QUOTE]

    Never stopped 'em before, but good, then you can mosey over to the Christie vetoes...thread and tell the pro-people to stop callin' the antis homophobes too.

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4369941]They have clearly expressed themselves through their various mouthpieces. They have done NOTHING - the people that is.
    That is why I compare them very closely to the Germans - a counrty I have visited (starting over 40 years ago) and did have an opportunity to converse with people - they knew, acknowledged and supported the actions of the Third Reich. [B]The Iranians, if anything, are more radical than the Germans.
    [/B]And you have visited Iran how many times for your wimpy attitude towards their wonderful and innocent and peace loving citizens?[/QUOTE]

    Again you claim to know what 75 million Iranians want after saying you've never been there.

    I have never been to Iran and do not claim to know what the average Iranian feels or wants.

    BUT I suspect Iranians (as every rational human being) don't want to be killed in a nuclear blast or to be a member of the losing side in a nuclear war.

    PS There are an estimated 30,000 Jews living in Iran.

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