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Thread: Obama vs the Catholic Church

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4364867]The Healthcare business isn't religous. If a religous organization wants to provide health care and takes payment or insurance for it and provides health insurance to their employees, they should comply with the laws of our secular society. That in no way excludes them from practicing their religous beliefs.

    Women deserve to have their health care which includes reproductive services provided for by health care providers.[/QUOTE]

    Cool.

    Maybe you can be the one to go tell the mosque down the street that runs a food pantry for the poor that they need to serve pork.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4364867]The Healthcare business isn't religous. If a religous organization wants to provide health care and takes payment or insurance for it and provides health insurance to their employees, they should comply with the laws of our secular society. That in no way excludes them from practicing their religous beliefs.

    Women deserve to have their health care which includes reproductive services provided for by health care providers.[/QUOTE]

    Since when is pregnancy a medical issue? It is not cancer or any disease it is caused by sperm and a egg. If you want to get pregnant let the guy get fixed or her have her tubes tied. Pregnancy is not a disease! The Catholic Church buys the insurance and they cannot be forced to have that covered.
    Obama is a constitutional Lawyer maybe he should read the document sometime.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=OCCH;4364951]This.

    I would be considered "very religious" by most people, but I don't want to hear any complaints about the gov't as long as you're taking money from it. Even the tax exempt status -- if the gov't is "forcing" you to do something you don't agree with, validate your faith by forfeiting the status and dealing with the consequences, then tell me why you shouldn't have to follow their policies . . .[/QUOTE]

    This whole thread is so idiotic it is beyond belief.

    This isn't even about providing health care. It's about Catholic-run organizations providing [I]benefits[/I] as part of its compensation to its employees.

    The government telling any private organization specifically what they need to include in that package, out their own pocket, regardless of that organization's beliefs, and people being ok with that, is beyond diseased in the head.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4364996]Cool.

    Maybe you can be the one to go tell the mosque down the street that runs a food pantry for the poor that they need to serve pork.[/QUOTE]


    LMAO. Almost sounds like a Seinfeld episode. "Where are the muffin tops"?

    Your point is valid. Jewish/Moslem hospitals MUST prepare pork daily along with other foods. Nobody is forced to eat it. They MUST prepare it. Same with schools.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4365023]LMAO. Almost sounds like a Seinfeld episode. "Where are the muffin tops"?

    Your point is valid. Jewish/Moslem hospitals MUST prepare pork daily along with other foods. Nobody is forced to eat it. They MUST prepare it. Same with schools.[/QUOTE]

    Why do they have to prepare pork? Where is there a Muslim hospital in the US?

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4364999]This whole thread is so idiotic it is beyond belief.

    This isn't even about providing health care. It's about Catholic-run organizations providing [I]benefits[/I] as part of its compensation to its employees.

    The government telling any private organization specifically what they need to include in that package, out their own pocket, regardless of that organization's beliefs, and people being ok with that, is beyond diseased in the head.[/QUOTE]

    Dear President Obama,
    I am thinking of painting my house. What brand of paint should I use and what color? What is the fine if I disagree and use a different color/brand?

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4364981]So your position is that because Nancy Pelosi added a requirement in to a 2000+ page Obamacare bill that no one could have possibly read before a vote was crammed down our throats that the case is closed and the people should suck it up and move on? That thought process seems odd.[/QUOTE]

    My position is a law is a law and must be followed until it is overturned in court or changed by the legislature. When did I ever say anything about "sucking it up and moving on?"

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4364979]If it ever came to that there would be a HUGE void in our health care system. Do you know how many of our hospitals are faith based in this country? They are private businesses.[/QUOTE]

    If faith based health care has such a huge footprint, one could argue that there already exists a HUGE void in the system, and this law intends to close it.

    This issue is not about faith based hospitals performing services, it's about health insurance through faith based organizations covering specific services.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4365035]My position is a law is a law and must be followed until it is overturned in court or changed by the legislature. When did I ever say anything about "sucking it up and moving on?"[/QUOTE]

    You kind of implied it here.

    [QUOTE=parafly;4364954]Like in every industry, there are certain standards that must be set and conformed to. In this case, the standard has been set whether you agree with it or not.[/QUOTE]

    The thing is that for this to be overturned it needs to be talked about both in congress and by regular citizens. It needs to be understood (should have been read and understood before it was passed) however most analysts say it is impossible to understand because there are something like 1700 entries that say "This will be determined by..." a committee or council later. How do you plan for the future with an undefined 2000 leviathan hanging over your head?

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4365044]You kind of implied it here.[/QUOTE]

    I implied no such thing. He asked a simple question, and I gave a direct answer. That doesn't necessary mean I agree with the mandate/standard.

    [QUOTE]The thing is that for this to be overturned it needs to be talked about both in congress and by regular citizens. It needs to be understood (should have been read and understood before it was passed) however most analysts say it is impossible to understand because there are something like 1700 entries that say "This will be determined by..." a committee or council later. How do you plan for the future with an undefined 2000 leviathan hanging over your head?[/QUOTE]

    ACA is a terrible piece of legislation in my opinion.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4365035]My position is a law is a law and must be followed until it is overturned in court or changed by the legislature. When did I ever say anything about "sucking it up and moving on?"[/QUOTE]

    What if the law is a controversial new law that is unjust and unwanted?

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4365025]Why do they have to prepare pork? Where is there a Muslim hospital in the US?[/QUOTE]


    I could be fairly certain there are Moslem health care facilities in western Michigan where there is a heavy concentration of these folks. Somewhat tongue in cheek, but there are Jewish hospitals. And moslem schools. BTW, a fed judge recently ruled Sharia law can not be ruled out in Oklahoma.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4365054]What if the law is a controversial new law that is unjust and unwanted?[/QUOTE]

    Then it needs to be changed through further legislation or brought in front of the Supreme Court and ruled unconstitutional. Politics 101?

    "Controversial" laws are passed all the time. It's in the eye of the beholder. That doesn't mean you get to break them if you don't agree with them.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4365048]I implied no such thing. He asked a simple question, and I gave a direct answer. That doesn't necessary mean I agree with the mandate/standard.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I just meant that is how I read it.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4365072]Sorry, I just meant that is how I read it.[/QUOTE]

    No need for apologies. Although I am against this particular mandate, I can see the argument for both sides. It's a very interesting debate.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4364996]Cool.

    Maybe you can be the one to go tell the mosque down the street that runs a food pantry for the poor that they need to serve pork.[/QUOTE]

    Just to be accurate, churches and religious houses of worship are exempt from the mandate. Faith-based organizations that hire civilian employees not of the given faith are the ones that are currently uncovered.

    I'm mixed on this issue, frankly, as I can see merit in the idea that some forms of care or prevention may be critical and yet a faith-based organization would deny them based on religious beliefs... the Jehovahs with blood transfusions comes to mind. Birth control is dicey for obvious reasons...
    Last edited by long island leprechaun; 02-09-2012 at 01:51 PM.

  17. #57
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    But the healthcare is being paid for by the Catholic Church, they should not be forced to pay for something they believe is wrong. I believe Obama is overstepping his authority.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4364932]I always thought you had a vagina. Thanks for coming clean and admitting it.
    That said, there are some pedophile priests AND pedophile RABBIS too. I am sure you are aware of that. And pedophiles in every religion and profession. As for moral high ground - how wou you recognize it. Most religions are a positive force in people's lives. This president who is essentially born and brought up a Moslem is anti Catholic.
    This is a fight he can't win. Sue the Church? That's illegal. BTW, there are 6 Supreme Court justices who are Catholic. One is a commie but the other 5 will stick it in his ear.[/QUOTE]

    LOL...please put the list of pedo rabbis next to the THOUSANDS of pedo priests.

    A positive force? I'll tell that to the THOUSAND of anal rape victims who suffered because CHILD RAPISTS were shuffled around to RAPE CHILDREN AGAIN.

    That should make them feel better.

    Why is the church in the healthcare business anyway?

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4365118]Faith-based organizations that hire civilian employees not of the given faith are the ones that are currently uncovered.[/QUOTE]

    Which is completely fine. If those employees want birth control to be covered, they can switch jobs, or they can buy a rider that covers their gap to their current policy out of their own pocket. Forcing a private, religious organization to do so is nothing short of tyranny.

    Hey, I have an idea. I heard the Ku Klux Klan is short on money to print their newsletters and training materials. Wouldn't want to deny them the right to educate their kids and exercise their freedom of speech. Let's force the NAACP to send them some cash. :rolleyes:

  20. #60
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    Should a faith-based hospital be required to provide life saving services to a murderer?

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