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Thread: Still think Sharia law is sneaking into US?

  1. #1
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    Still think Sharia law is sneaking into US?

    Even though this is a very low level, backwoods PA court, this is scary. Poor Muslim didn't know that it was illegal to assault someone over religion. :rolleyes:


    [url]http://jonathanturley.org/2012/02/24/pennsylvania-judge-throws-out-charge-for-harassing-atheist-while-calling-the-victim-a-doofus/[/url]

    There is a surprising story out of Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania that seems the perfect storm of religious tensions. You begin with Ernie Perce, an atheist who marched as a zombie Mohammad in the Mechanicsburg Halloween parade. Then you add Talaag Elbayomy, a Muslim who stepped off a curb and reportedly attacked Perce for insulting the Prophet. Then you have a judge (Judge Mark Martin) who threw out the criminal charges against Elbayomy and ridiculed the victim, Perce. The Judge identifies himself as a Muslim and says that Perce conduct is not what the First Amendment is supposed to protect. [UPDATE: The judge says he is not a Muslim despite what is heard by most listeners on the tape. That being the case, the criticism of the comments remains.]


    Perce is the American Atheists’ Pennsylvania State Director and marched with other atheists, including one dressed as a creepy Pope. Here is the tape of the incident:

    Perce says that Elbayomy grabbed him and tried to take his sign. Elbayomy was at the parade with his wife and children and said that he felt he had to act in the face of the insult. The officer at the scene, Sgt. Brian Curtis, correctly concluded that Perce was engaged in a lawful, first amendment activity. He therefore charged Elbayomy. While it looks like an assault, he was only charged with harassment.

    The case, however, then went to District Judge Mark Martin who not only threw out the charge of harassment but ridiculed Perce as a “doofus.” He also proceeds to not only give an account of his own feelings (and say that he was offended personally by Perce’s action) but suggests that Elbayomy was just protecting his “culture.” The judge not only points to the Koran in the courtroom but his time in Muslim countries as relevant to his deliberations. Putting aside the problem of ruling in a case where you admit you have strong personal feelings, the lecture given on the first amendment is perfectly grotesque from a civil liberties perspective.

    Here is part of the hearing transcript:

    Well, having had the benefit of having spent over two-and-a-half years in predominantly Muslim countries, I think I know a little bit about the faith of Islam. In fact, I have a copy of the Quran here, and I would challenge you, Sir, to show me where it says in the Quran that Muhammad arose and walked among the dead. I think you misinterpreted a couple of things. So before you start mocking somebody else’s religion, you might want to find out a little more about it. It kind of makes you look like a doofus. …

    In many other Muslim-speaking countries, err, excuse me, many Arabic-speaking countries, predominantly Muslim, something like this is definitely against the law there, in their society. In fact, it could be punished by death, and frequently is, in their society.

    Here in our society, we have a Constitution that gives us many rights, specifically First Amendment rights. It’s unfortunate that some people use the First Amendment to deliberately provoke others. I don’t think that’s what our forefathers intended. I think our forefathers intended to use the First Amendment so we can speak with our mind, not to piss off other people and cultures – which is what you did.

    I don’t think you’re aware, Sir, there’s a big difference between how Americans practice Christianity – I understand you’re an atheist – but see Islam is not just a religion. It’s their culture, their culture, their very essence, their very being. They pray five times a day toward Mecca. To be a good Muslim before you die, you have to make a pilgrimage to Mecca, unless you’re otherwise told you cannot because you’re too ill, too elderly, whatever, but you must make the attempt. Their greeting is ‘Salam alaikum, wa-laikum as-Salam,’ uh, ‘May God be with you.’

  2. #2
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    How is this guy a judge?

    Throwing out this charge of harassment based on his stated reasoning is akin to throwing out a charge of rape because the victim dressed too provocatively.

  3. #3
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    Obviously, thread title should read "Still DON'T think Sharia Law.....

  4. #4
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    Atheists help people of different religions bridge their differences by giving them someone the BOTH can hate. Together. In harmony :P

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=parafly;4377812]How is this guy a judge?

    Throwing out this charge of harassment based on his stated reasoning is akin to throwing out a charge of rape because the victim dressed too provocatively.[/QUOTE]

    He should of been charged with disorderly conduct.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4377800]Even though this is a very low level, backwoods PA court, this is scary. Poor Muslim didn't know that it was illegal to assault someone over religion. :rolleyes:


    [URL]http://jonathanturley.org/2012/02/24/pennsylvania-judge-throws-out-charge-for-harassing-atheist-while-calling-the-victim-a-doofus/[/URL]

    There is a surprising story out of Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania that seems the perfect storm of religious tensions. You begin with Ernie Perce, an atheist who marched as a zombie Mohammad in the Mechanicsburg Halloween parade. Then you add Talaag Elbayomy, a Muslim who stepped off a curb and reportedly attacked Perce for insulting the Prophet. Then you have a judge (Judge Mark Martin) who threw out the criminal charges against Elbayomy and ridiculed the victim, Perce. The Judge identifies himself as a Muslim and says that Perce conduct is not what the First Amendment is supposed to protect. [UPDATE: The judge says he is not a Muslim despite what is heard by most listeners on the tape. That being the case, the criticism of the comments remains.]


    Perce is the American Atheists’ Pennsylvania State Director and marched with other atheists, including one dressed as a creepy Pope. Here is the tape of the incident:

    Perce says that Elbayomy grabbed him and tried to take his sign. Elbayomy was at the parade with his wife and children and said that he felt he had to act in the face of the insult. The officer at the scene, Sgt. Brian Curtis, correctly concluded that Perce was engaged in a lawful, first amendment activity. He therefore charged Elbayomy. While it looks like an assault, he was only charged with harassment.

    The case, however, then went to District Judge Mark Martin who not only threw out the charge of harassment but ridiculed Perce as a “doofus.” He also proceeds to not only give an account of his own feelings (and say that he was offended personally by Perce’s action) but suggests that Elbayomy was just protecting his “culture.” The judge not only points to the Koran in the courtroom but his time in Muslim countries as relevant to his deliberations. Putting aside the problem of ruling in a case where you admit you have strong personal feelings, the lecture given on the first amendment is perfectly grotesque from a civil liberties perspective.

    Here is part of the hearing transcript:

    Well, having had the benefit of having spent over two-and-a-half years in predominantly Muslim countries, I think I know a little bit about the faith of Islam. In fact, I have a copy of the Quran here, and I would challenge you, Sir, to show me where it says in the Quran that Muhammad arose and walked among the dead. I think you misinterpreted a couple of things. So before you start mocking somebody else’s religion, you might want to find out a little more about it. It kind of makes you look like a doofus. …

    In many other Muslim-speaking countries, err, excuse me, many Arabic-speaking countries, predominantly Muslim, something like this is definitely against the law there, in their society. In fact, it could be punished by death, and frequently is, in their society.

    Here in our society, we have a Constitution that gives us many rights, specifically First Amendment rights. It’s unfortunate that some people use the First Amendment to deliberately provoke others. I don’t think that’s what our forefathers intended. I think our forefathers intended to use the First Amendment so we can speak with our mind, not to piss off other people and cultures – which is what you did.

    I don’t think you’re aware, Sir, there’s a big difference between how Americans practice Christianity – I understand you’re an atheist – but see Islam is not just a religion. It’s their culture, their culture, their very essence, their very being. They pray five times a day toward Mecca. To be a good Muslim before you die, you have to make a pilgrimage to Mecca, unless you’re otherwise told you cannot because you’re too ill, too elderly, whatever, but you must make the attempt. Their greeting is ‘Salam alaikum, wa-laikum as-Salam,’ uh, ‘May God be with you.’[/QUOTE]

    While I don't think this is sharia-creep I do think it is disgusting that a sitting American judge could be so open about his lack of understanding of the American Constitution. He needs to be relieved of duty right away.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Trades;4377828]While I don't think this is sharia-creep I do think it is disgusting that a sitting American judge could be so open about his lack of understanding of the American Constitution. He needs to be relieved of duty right away.[/QUOTE]

    Just listened to a couple of minutes of testimony and the guy who dressed up decided to make it a interuptation of the Koran etc. the incident was 48 seconds long. Just stupid.

  8. #8
    I always do a funny Jesus hanging on the cross for Halloween. Bloody hands and all.

    The neighbors think its a hoot!!

    Why can't we all juts get along??

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=FF2®;4377973]I always do a funny Jesus hanging on the cross for Halloween. Bloody hands and all.

    The neighbors think its a hoot!!

    Why can't we all juts get along??[/QUOTE]

    Another guy in the parade dressed as the Pope. True. :yes:

  10. #10
    1) this guy [I][B]is [/B][/I]a doofus. Listen to the tape of the hearing - the guy thinks the Quran says Muhammed rose from the dead. The judge was right about one thing - you do kind of look ridiculous when you attack a religion based on absurd misconceptions about it.

    2) The judge is as well. The DA should appeal.
    Last edited by doggin94it; 02-27-2012 at 05:56 PM.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4378015]1) this guy [I][B]is [/B][/I]a doofus. Listen to the tape of the hearing - the guy thinks the Quran says Muhammed rose from the dead. The judge was right about one thing - you do kind of look ridiculous when you attack a religion based on absurd misconceptions about it.

    2) The judge is as well. The DA should appeal.[/QUOTE]


    Of course he's a doofus. But he has right to be doofus without being attacked by a cave-man.

  12. #12
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    Beyond the stupidity of the parade costumes, it should not be assumed that any form of speech or expression is protected by the first amendment. That would be an equally fallacious reading of the Bill of Rights. Just so we don't go off the deep end that anything is permissible, even in the public square.

  13. #13
    BTW: The Judge's version:[QUOTE]

    [INDENT]This story certainly has legs. As you might imagine, the public is only getting the version of the story put out by the “victim” (the atheist). Many, many gross misrepresentations. Among them: I’m a Muslim, and that’s why I dismissed the harassment charge (Fact: if anyone cares, I’m actually Lutheran, and have been for at least 41 years).
    I also supposedly called him and threatened to throw him in jail if he released the tapes he had made in the courtroom without my knowledge/permission (Fact: HE called ME and told me that he was ready to “go public” with the tapes and was wondering what the consequences would be; I advised him again to not disseminate the recording, and that I would consider contempt charges; he then replied that he was “willing to go to jail for (his) 1st amendment rights”- I never even uttered the word “jail” in that conversation).
    He said that I kept a copy of the Quran on the bench (fact: I keep a Bible on the bench, but out of respect to people with faiths other than Christianity, I DO have a Quran on the bookcase BESIDE my bench, and am trying to acquire a Torah, Book of Mormon, Book of Confucius and any other artifacts which those with a faith might respect).
    He claims that I’m biased towards Islam, apparently because he thinks I’m Muslim. In fact, those of you who know me, know that I’m an Army reservist with 27 years of service towards our country (and still serving). I’ve done one tour in Afghanistan, and two tours in Iraq, and am scheduled to return to Afghanistan for a year this summer. During my first tour in Iraq, I was ambushed once, attacked by a mob once, sniped at once, and rocketed, bombed, and mortared so many times that I honestly don’t know how many time I’ve been attacked. Presumably by Muslim insurgents. My point: if anyone SHOULD be biased towards Muslims, one would think it would be me. I’m not, however, because I personally know or have met many good, decent people who follow Islam, and I shouldn’t characterize the actions of those who tried to kill me as characterizations of all Muslims.
    When I asked him why he dressed up as “Muhammad zombie,” he told me that it was because he was reflecting the Muslim belief that Muhammad rose from the dead, walked as a zombie, and then went to heaven. That was one of the reasons I tried to spend 6 whole minutes trying to explain and de-mystify Islam through my own knowledge, and in an attempt to prevent an incident like this recurring in my community. Unfortunately, the message was obviously not received in the vein that I had intended. And, in the interest of full disclosure, I did use the word “doofus,” but didn’t call him that directly; I said something akin to “ if you’re going to mock another religion or culture, you should check your facts, first- otherwise, you’ll look like a doofus.”;
    In short, I based my decision on the fact that the Commonwealth failed to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that the charge was just; I didn’t doubt that an incident occurred, but I was basically presented only with the victim’s version, the defendant’s version, and a very intact Styrofoam sign that the victim was wearing and claimed that the defendant had used to choke him. There so many inconsistencies, that there was no way that I was going to find the defendant guilty.
    A lesson learned here: there’s a very good reason for Rule 112 of Rules of Criminal Procedure- if someone makes an unauthorized recording in a Court not of Record, there’s no way to control how it might be manipulated later, and then passed off as the truth. We’ve received dozens upon dozens of phone calls, faxes, and e-mails. There are literally hundreds of not-so-nice posts all over the internet on at least 4 sites that have carried this story, mainly because I’ve been painted as a Muslim judge who didn’t recuse himself, and who’s trying to introduce Sharia law into Mechanicsburg.[/INDENT][/QUOTE]

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4378030]In short, I based my decision on the fact that the Commonwealth failed to prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that the charge was just...[/QUOTE]

    Sweet! The legal justification for me taking out the church bells in the church down the road.

    Tired of hearing those things going off on Sunday mornings. I got a freaking hangover, for Christ's sake. It's 2012. Can't you just send a text message to all your "flock" to let them know it's time for pew-surfing?

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4377800]Even though this is a very low level, backwoods PA court, this is scary. Poor Muslim didn't know that it was illegal to assault someone over religion. :rolleyes:


    ’[/QUOTE]

    Mechanicsburg isn't exactly backwoods PA, it is right outside Harrisburg.

  16. #16
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    This is the part that is so worrisome, imo. Making the case that Islam is so different, that it's followers are so much more immersed in their religion than anyone else is, so that explains why they get to act like savages when feel Islam is disrespected. From the case transcipt:


    "I don’t think you’re aware, Sir, there’s a big difference between how Americans practice Christianity – I understand you’re an atheist – but see Islam is not just a religion. It’s their culture, their culture, their very essence, their very being. They pray five times a day toward Mecca. To be a good Muslim before you die, you have to make a pilgrimage to Mecca, unless you’re otherwise told you cannot because you’re too ill, too elderly, whatever, but you must make the attempt. Their greeting is ‘Salam alaikum, wa-laikum as-Salam,’ uh, ‘May God be with you.’

    Whenever it is very common, their language, when they’re speaking to each other, it’s very common for them to say, uh, Allah willing, this will happen. It’s, they’re so immersed in it. And what you’ve done is, you’ve completely trashed their essence, their being. They find it very, very, very offensive. I’m a Muslim. I find it offensive"

  17. #17
    The transcript from the nut job who recorded it?

    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4378485]This is the part that is so worrisome, imo. Making the case that Islam is so different, that it's followers are so much more immersed in their religion than anyone else is, so that explains why they get to act like savages when feel Islam is disrespected. From the case transcipt:


    "I don’t think you’re aware, Sir, there’s a big difference between how Americans practice Christianity – I understand you’re an atheist – but see Islam is not just a religion. It’s their culture, their culture, their very essence, their very being. They pray five times a day toward Mecca. To be a good Muslim before you die, you have to make a pilgrimage to Mecca, unless you’re otherwise told you cannot because you’re too ill, too elderly, whatever, but you must make the attempt. Their greeting is ‘Salam alaikum, wa-laikum as-Salam,’ uh, ‘May God be with you.’

    Whenever it is very common, their language, when they’re speaking to each other, it’s very common for them to say, uh, Allah willing, this will happen. It’s, they’re so immersed in it. And what you’ve done is, you’ve completely trashed their essence, their being. They find it very, very, very offensive. I’m a Muslim. I find it offensive"[/QUOTE]

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4378495]The transcript from the nut job who recorded it?[/QUOTE]


    Listen to the recording.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=adb280z;4378241]Mechanicsburg [B]isn't exactly backwoods PA, it is right outside Harrisburg.[/QUOTE][/B][/B]

    You really didn't help your cause.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4378517]Listen to the recording.[/QUOTE]

    You verified it's authenticity?

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