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Thread: Saints "May" Be Disciplined for Bounty Program

  1. #341
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385618]

    Jets are a GREAT fit for him if it comes to it, IMO.


    [B]Sanchez, Cro, and a 1st for Brees = where do I sign.[/B]

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't buy for a second that the Jets are a "great fit" for him. Brees is a soft touch QB, a great one, but he's much better served to play in a warm weather/dome team. Certainly not in New York with road games in Buffalo and New England every year.

    If you think Sanchez, Cro, and a first for Brees would be enough, you would be deluding yourself.

    Sanchez has limited value to teams right now, If he plays well this season, then he will get a new contract, so there's no savings there, Cro is a solid #1 CB, but at $8M/Year not worth it to the Saints.

    The Jets would have to give up 2 #1s, plus a young player, IMO.

  2. #342
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4385684]Not sure if any team would trade for Brees without a contract being already in place.

    What would prevent him from doing the exact same thing he is doing with the Saints with the team that traded for him?[/QUOTE]

    you simply negotiate that before the trade is executed. once the trade is executed it is dependant on the contract terms being honored. it happens all the time in sports.

  3. #343
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4385684]Not sure if any team would trade for Brees without a contract being already in place.

    What would prevent him from doing the exact same thing he is doing with the Saints with the team that traded for him?[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I would assume that any trade for Brees would include a negotiation between the team and Brees directly (with permission from the Saints)

  4. #344
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    [QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;4385685]I don't buy for a second that the Jets are a "great fit" for him. Brees is a soft touch QB, a great one, but he's much better served to play in a warm weather/dome team. Certainly not in New York with road games in Buffalo and New England every year.

    If you think Sanchez, Cro, and a first for Brees would be enough, you would be deluding yourself.

    Sanchez has limited value to teams right now, If he plays well this season, then he will get a new contract, so there's no savings there, Cro is a solid #1 CB, but at $8M/Year not worth it to the Saints.

    [B]The Jets would have to give up 2 #1s, plus a young player, IMO[/B].[/QUOTE]

    As for your point on offering more, then so be it. This is a guy you bankroll on. But FWIW, Sanchez and Cro plus a 1, is one young QB with potential, the best #2 CB in the game which means a good #1 and a first round pick. You may have to add another pick but I don't think you're correct in your assesment.

    As for the cold weather piece. Maybe/maybe not, but you can't tell me for one second you would not take and pursue at all costs Drew Brees because you think he's a dome QB...GTFO.

  5. #345
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385680]is it a long shot? i dont think it's a long shot at all..

    I'd consider a 2nd and/or third this year and a first next year plus suspensions to be multiple/many.

    It's really not as far off as you are thinking IMO.

    if the Saints don't get slammed here i'd be absolutely shocked.[/QUOTE]

    IDK - You are talking about trading away a proven franchise QB.

  6. #346
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    [QUOTE=isired;4385652]I agree, a whole draft is too much - it might fit the crime, but IMO it's mitigated by the fact that 'everyone' was doing it and neither the Saints nor Williams invented it.

    Curious about one thing - there's been a line drawn, in the player/former player quotes I've heard, between bounties to injure players and bounties on big plays - the former is clearly wrong, and needs to stop; the latter happens, to some degree, at almost every level of football (we got plastic stars/logo stickers on our helmets in high school, bear claws in college + privileges like no sprints, ride on the blocking sled instead of driving it, etc.). I think the latter, even when monetary, is good, clean fun, but I'm also pretty sure it's what led to injury bounties. And while I think they'll tell the teams they have to stop the 'pay for play', do you think they'll try to stop it amongst players? And do you think it will/should have any effect on other levels who don't pay with cash, but rather prestige?[/QUOTE]

    Pay for play will always be illegal as it establishes payments outside the salary cap, no matter how trivial the amount. There will always be bonus structures as incentives for strong play like # of sacks, yards passing, # completions and such, but those are stated amounts and subject to the cap. Prestige awards are something else entirely, like the preferred parking space for the guy who spends the most time in the gym. That's appropriate IMO and should be of no concern to the league.

  7. #347
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385688]you simply negotiate that before the trade is executed. once the trade is executed it is dependant on the contract terms being honored. it happens all the time in sports.[/QUOTE]

    Absoluetly agree, the contract would already have to be in place.

    I still think it's a moot point, Brees will not be leaving NO.

  8. #348
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    [QUOTE=petejet;4385659]If the saints stick to their guns Brees cannot go anywhere else this year. [B]All he can do is hold out or sign the tag, play the year out and walk next year[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Unless they tag him [B]again[/B].

  9. #349
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4385697]Absoluetly agree, the contract would already have to be in place.

    I still think it's a moot point, Brees will not be leaving NO.[/QUOTE]

    i'm by no means saying its a lock he will...

    but if things transpire w/ this bounty situation as many expect in conjunction w/ Brees own situation it could be the perfect storm and isn't too far off of a thought.

  10. #350
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4385697]Absoluetly agree, the contract would already have to be in place.

    I still think it's a moot point, Brees will not be leaving NO.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think you can do that in football since whatever contract the player signs with his current team must immediately fit under the cap of that team. I don't recall seeing any "sign and trades" in the NFL. Its not like the NBA.

  11. #351
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    [QUOTE=GronkWelkhead;4385701]Unless they tag him [B]again[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Under the new CBA a player cannot be tagged more than once by the same team.

  12. #352
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385702]i'm by no means saying its a lock he will...

    but if things transpire w/ this bounty situation as many expect in conjunction w/ Brees own situation it could be the perfect storm and isn't too far off of a thought.[/QUOTE]

    I agree, between the coming bounty sh!tstorm, and the fact that he's really soured on the negotiations, he could try to shoot his way out of town which may cause the team to trade him. He's 33 so this his likely his last contract. I can't see him settling.

  13. #353
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    [QUOTE=petejet;4385708]Under the new CBA a player cannot be tagged more than once by the same team.[/QUOTE]

    Really? I thought they could still tag twice. Stand corrected.

    Edit: Just looked it up, and actually a team can not only tag a player for a second year, but a third as well. It just gets more expensive each time they do it:

    [QUOTE][B]Can a team use the franchise tag on a player in consecutive years?[/B]

    Yes. But it gets progressively more costly. If a team wishes to use the franchise tag on the same player it did the previous season the player will receive 120% of his previous year's salary. For example, if the San Diego Chargers wanted to use their franchise tag on Vincent Jackson again this season they would have to pay him $13.7 million which is 120% of his 11.4 million from a year ago. If a team wants to tag a player for a third consecutive year the price tag jumps to 144% of their previous salary. This can be a very expensive proposition as using the franchise tag just once already makes a tagged player amongst the highest paid in the NFL at his position. [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/feature/?fid=59870[/url]
    Last edited by GronkWelkhead; 03-06-2012 at 01:44 PM.

  14. #354
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385692]As for your point on offering more, then so be it. This is a guy you bankroll on. But FWIW, Sanchez and Cro plus a 1, is one young QB with potential, the best #2 CB in the game which means a good #1 and a first round pick. You may have to add another pick but I don't think you're correct in your assesment.

    [B]As for the cold weather piece. Maybe/maybe not, but you can't tell me for one second you would not take and pursue at all costs Drew Brees because you think he's a dome QB...GTFO.[/B][/QUOTE]

    I was responding to your comment about the Jets being a great fit for Brees. I meant from Drew Brees perspective, I don't see the Jets as being a particularly great fit for him. As a Jets fan, I'm willing to give up a lot to get Brees.

    Don't forget that Sanchez and Cromartie count for $22M against the cap this season alone, and another $19M against the cap next season (Though Sanchez could be cut for a hit of $2.5M)

    I don't know the Saints cap situation, but if they are paying hardball with Brees about $14M a year, I don't really think they would want to give Sanchez roughly that kind of money.

  15. #355
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    [QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;4385736]I was responding to your comment about the Jets being a great fit for Brees. I meant from Drew Brees perspective, I don't see the Jets as being a particularly great fit for him. As a Jets fan, I'm willing to give up a lot to get Brees.

    Don't forget that Sanchez and Cromartie count for $22M against the cap this season alone, and another $19M against the cap next season (Though Sanchez could be cut for a hit of $2.5M)

    I don't know the Saints cap situation, but if they are paying hardball with Brees about $14M a year, I don't really think they would want to give Sanchez roughly that kind of money.[/QUOTE]

    Sanchez can easily be restructured.

    And I think Brees is a great fit anywhere he would play....JMO.

  16. #356
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    [QUOTE=GronkWelkhead;4385716]Really? I thought they could still tag twice. Stand corrected.

    Edit: Just looked it up, and actually a team can not only tag a player for a second year, but a third as well. It just gets more expensive each time they do it:



    [url]http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/feature/?fid=59870[/url][/QUOTE]

    Funny - first article I read says you can only use it once per player. I just found another one that says you can only use it twice per player and then there is the explanation you found.

    Here is one from NFL.com that concurs with your explanation. I should hope that it is correct.

    [url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8272422b/article/new-wrinkles-to-franchise-tag-salary-cap-happened-for-reason[/url]
    Last edited by petejet; 03-06-2012 at 02:03 PM.

  17. #357
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385666]They've been trying since last August.[/QUOTE]A lot's changed for the Saints between August and a week ago.

  18. #358
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    [QUOTE=GronkWelkhead;4385696]Pay for play will always be illegal as it establishes payments outside the salary cap, no matter how trivial the amount. There will always be bonus structures as incentives for strong play like # of sacks, yards passing, # completions and such, but those are stated amounts and subject to the cap. Prestige awards are something else entirely, like the preferred parking space for the guy who spends the most time in the gym. That's appropriate IMO and should be of no concern to the league.[/QUOTE]Of course, that's what I meant by 'the league will stop teams from using the pay for play' - I was talking about the practice amongst players - and, while formal bonus structures will always be part of contracts, I wonder if the league will swing the pendulum in the opposite direction (wouldn't be the first time) and restrict the parking spaces etc. that are under the table.=, and further, whether this might ripple to the levels below the pros - whether this might have an effect on coaches getting kids amped up to earn a star for a big hit, etc.

  19. #359
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    [QUOTE=isired;4385763]A lot's changed for the Saints between August and a week ago.[/QUOTE]

    yes and not for the better making Brees even more likely to be traded IMO.

    [QUOTE]WIST-AM New Orleans reports Drew Brees is "livid" about being franchise tagged, and will not sign his tender.

    WIST-AM is not typically in the business of breaking major Saints news, but this is certainly plausible. The Saints and Brees have fruitlessly worked toward an extension for nearly two years, and have made surprisingly little progress since talks got serious in August. The sides now have until July 16 to work out a long-term contract. If a deal has not been reached by then, it's entirely possible Brees will refuse to sign his tender and threaten to miss parts of training camp. It's been a rough week for the Saints.[/QUOTE]

  20. #360
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    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385776]yes and not for the better[/QUOTE]ya think? :rolleyes:
    [QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4385776]making Brees even more likely to be traded IMO.[/QUOTE]I don't know - I think it might make it more likely that he gets signed at (or nearer) his asking price - it could go wither way. After all, if you're facing a very weak draft and loss of your coach for a period of time, do you really want to remove your top proven player and 'on-field coach' in exchange for some unknowns? I think the fans put more emphasis on the draft vs. known talent than FO's (or at least good FO's) do.

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