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Thread: Ian O'Connor: Forget Manning, stick with Sanchez

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4387334]

    This team could be headed toward a fullblown rebuilding phase if Sanchez sh*ts the bed this year.[/QUOTE]

    Orrrrr...we could be in full-blown build up to a dynasty mode if Sanchez rebounds nicely.

    :D

    _

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387325]No QB who hasn't developed into a 4,000 yard passer has won a Super Bowl since 2003.

    Last year, all the teams that were in the playoffs had top 10 passer rating QB's with the exception of Denver. Houston doesn't count because Schaub was arguably a top 5 QB prior to his injury last season.

    Sorry to not pay attention to any facts other than those that matter.

    [B]Every team that's won the Super Bowl since 2003 has had an elite QB. [/B]

    Even if the QB that particular year wasn't elite, there's no arguing that Roethlisberger, Rodgers, both Mannings, Brees, and Brady are the absolute upper echelon of the NFL's QB's.

    They also reflect winners of every Super Bowl since 2003. That's 9 years. And the rules have changed since then to favor QB's even more![/QUOTE]

    Roethlisberger's numbers have never been "Stafford-like"... Rodgers sat for years, then didn't win in his first year as a starter.... P. Manning was the starter almost 10 years before he won the SB, much less got there.... E. Manning's numbers were about the same as Sanchez's, your logic dictates he should have been dumped after year 3, though.... Brees "would never be the guy", until he changed teams, started playing for a coach that wanted to actually use his strengths, and still didn't win until they got a legit DC.... and Brady, after sitting behind Bledsoe, was a game manager with Sanchez-like numbers in the years they won the SB--- since he started putting up "elite" numbers, they haven't won a SB. Your logic is incredibly flawed and not based in reality. But, hey, let's just chuck the rock all over the place.... it obviously works so well.

  3. #43
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    Sanchez has played in about 50 plus games and that includes college (he's still young) has put up respectable numbers and is working to improve.

    How in the world can anyone say that this is the best he is going to be?

    One more thing I for one think Sanchez is way better than Eli Manning at the same point in their NFL tenure because the offensive weapons that Eli had in Tikki, Schockey etc were and are far superior to what Sanchez has around him plus Eli had far more experience starting at the collegiate and NFL levels.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387325]No QB who hasn't developed into a 4,000 yard passer has won a Super Bowl since 2003.

    Last year, all the teams that were in the playoffs had top 10 passer rating QB's with the exception of Denver. Houston doesn't count because Schaub was arguably a top 5 QB prior to his injury last season.

    Sorry to not pay attention to any facts other than those that matter.

    [B]Every team that's won the Super Bowl since 2003 has had an elite QB. [/B]

    Even if the QB that particular year wasn't elite, there's no arguing that Roethlisberger, Rodgers, both Mannings, Brees, and Brady are the absolute upper echelon of the NFL's QB's.

    They also reflect winners of every Super Bowl since 2003. That's 9 years. And the rules have changed since then to favor QB's even more!

    My point regarding Stafford is that he has a 4,000 yard season under his belt now with 30+ TDs. He is on a short list of guys who immediately make their team a title contender.

    Alex Smith is certainly not and if you think the Niners can win a Super Bowl with Smith then you are ignoring what really is the only stat that matters: Who won the Super Bowl and who was their QB?

    Sanchez is young enough to still turn into Stafford, but if he doesn't and you think it's OK and realistic to win today without some guy able to pick you up 400 yards of offense on his own, then you aren't really paying attention to reality.[/QUOTE]

    There's a huge difference between 4,000 yd season and 5,000 yd season.

    If you're saying the Jets need a QB who can up up a 4,000 yd season and 30+ TDs, I would agree with you.

    But you said Stafford statistically last year, but he put up a 5,000 yd season, which is rare.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=JStokes;4387345]Orrrrr...we could be in full-blown build up to a dynasty mode if Sanchez rebounds nicely.

    :D

    _[/QUOTE]

    We can dream :D

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=augustiniak;4387337]besides center, cb and LT, the jets have no elite talent. harris is pretty good. this team is average.[/QUOTE]

    Colts were 2-14 without Manning.


    Minor roster changes to 2010 squad which was a 10 win team.

    Polian failed. He failed all but one year getting Manning what was needed to win the titles the guy deserved.

    But hey, he set the trend blasting out AFC Championship losses with the Bills, too, remember?

    I digress: Manning, if healthy could arguably win the AFC South with the Jaguars who outside of Jones Drew have one of the absolute worst rosters in the league. Same with the Rams.

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387355]Colts were 2-14 without Manning.


    Minor roster changes to 2010 squad which was a 10 win team.

    Polian failed. He failed all but one year getting Manning what was needed to win the titles the guy deserved.

    But hey, he set the trend blasting out AFC Championship losses with the Bills, too, remember?

    I digress: Manning, if healthy could arguably win the AFC South with the Jaguars who outside of Jones Drew have one of the absolute worst rosters in the league. Same with the Rams.[/QUOTE]

    a healthy manning on the jets do not win the afc east. that's the problem here.

  8. #48
    I suspect after Brady and Manning retire Sanchez will be in his prime and might be a top 10 NFL QB. Not good enough.

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=SMC;4387351]There's a huge difference between 4,000 yd season and 5,000 yd season.

    If you're saying the Jets need a QB who can up up a 4,000 yd season and 30+ TDs, I would agree with you.

    But you said Stafford statistically last year, but he put up a 5,000 yd season, which is rare.[/QUOTE]

    OK, well my point was that Stafford is at the level of QB (top 8-10) that can legitimately win Super Bowls.

    Stats aside, I'm still taking Eli, healthy Peyton, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers over Stafford.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4387334]Guys like David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Rex Grossman showed "flashes of brilliance" at times as well. I mean, these guys are NFL QB's afterall. Even the bad ones will show signs of greatness here and there. Problem is, those guys didn't flash consistently enough and neither has Sanchez up to this point.

    My biggest fear is that we stick with Sanchez this year and we see more of the same, which is entirely possible. As a result, we know that Sanchez isn't the longterm guy and it also spells the end of Rex and Tanny. So there we are in 2013 with no QB, no HC, and no GM. And in the meanwhile, guys like Revis, Mangold, Harris, and Brick are a year older and all the more closer to their prime years being behind them. And we won't have jacksh*t to show for it.

    This team could be headed toward a fullblown rebuilding phase if Sanchez sh*ts the bed this year.[/QUOTE]

    U. You are assuming that Sanchez will not get better. Why so? I mean, I'm not trying to sound like a blind homer, but I [U]truly[/U] believe that he will be a very good QB. By acquiring Manning, we would be giving up on Mark, and I think it's just too damn soon to do so!

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=augustiniak;4387356]a healthy manning on the jets do not win the afc east. that's the problem here.[/QUOTE]

    Things change severely if you have a QB capable of torching your defense like Manning does to well, everybody.

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4387334]Guys like David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Rex Grossman showed "flashes of brilliance" at times as well. I mean, these guys are NFL QB's afterall. Even the bad ones will show signs of greatness here and there. Problem is, those guys didn't flash consistently enough and neither has Sanchez up to this point.

    My biggest fear is that we stick with Sanchez this year and we see more of the same, which is entirely possible. As a result, we know that Sanchez isn't the longterm guy and it also spells the end of Rex and Tanny. So there we are in 2013 with no QB, no HC, and no GM. And in the meanwhile, guys like Revis, Mangold, Harris, and Brick are a year older and all the more closer to their prime years being behind them. And we won't have jacksh*t to show for it.

    This team could be headed toward a fullblown rebuilding phase if Sanchez sh*ts the bed this year.[/QUOTE]

    why did they fire schotty if they thought the problem was mainly sanchez?

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=augustiniak;4387366]why did they fire schotty if they thought the problem was mainly sanchez?[/QUOTE]

    How else can you justify drafting him. It buys everyone a year.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4387368]How else can you justify drafting him. It buys everyone a year.[/QUOTE]

    not if you get peyton. it only works if you give sanchez at least 1 more year to improve.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387279]My point is that if the generation's best QB is available and healthy and you can get him then you get him. You are over thinking yourself here.

    Don't fall into the trap thinking you should ever plan for the future in this league unless you are ready to do it organization-wide (like the Colts are).[/QUOTE]

    BUT, there is zero guarantee that Manning is still that once in a generation QB. He will be 36 and has a fused vertebrae that no one knows if it will hold up to NFL competition. This is not manning at 28 years old, thats why he is available in the first place.

    As far as the Colts rebuilding, that proves what a lot of us are saying as well. How did the Colts become a stable winning franchise?? How are the Colts now looking to be that stable winning franchise again??

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387358]OK, well my point was that Stafford is at the level of QB (top 8-10) that can legitimately win Super Bowls.

    Stats aside, I'm still taking Eli, healthy Peyton, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers over Stafford.[/QUOTE]

    Rodgers and Eli aside, you'd be a detriment to your organization to do so...

    Stafford is on his way up the ladder and can stay at that level for far longer than the other guys you mentioned...

    Stafford has 10 years left... The other guys you mentioned don't have 10 years combined left...

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Yankeejet22;4387360]U. You are assuming that Sanchez will not get better. Why so? I mean, I'm not trying to sound like a blind homer, but I [U]truly[/U] believe that he will be a very good QB. By acquiring Manning, we would be giving up on Mark, and I think it's just too damn soon to do so![/QUOTE]

    I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply judging Sanchez by what I've seen from him so far.

    And if I was a betting man, I'd place better odds on us seeing more of the same from him before I bet on him having some kind of huge, breakout year.

    I've seen almost nothing from Sanchez that would indicate to me that he is well on his way to establishing himself as a Top 10 QB in this league. As I've said before, he's arguably the most erratic starting QB in the NFL today.

    I'm not willing to give this kid 5+ years on the off chance that maybe he's a late bloomer in the mold of Eli Manning.

    I guarantee that if Sanchez played for the Bills or Dolphins, or any other team than the Jets for that matter, everyone on this site would trash the guy.

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=augustiniak;4387373]not if you get peyton. it only works if you give sanchez at least 1 more year to improve.[/QUOTE]

    I think Tanny and Rex are as good as dead here if they don't get Manning or worse he goes to Miami. They have 2 years to play out the string.

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4387388]I think Tanny and Rex are as good as dead here if they don't get Manning or worse he goes to Miami. They have 2 years to play out the string.[/QUOTE]

    i think they're more dead if they cut bait on sanchez. tanny in particular. he's drafted clemens and sanchez and brought in farve. i give him an A for effort, stopping at nothing to get a qb who can get it done. but the results haven't been there.

    if sanchez is let go, then tanny would have him, gholston and ducasse on his resume of draft blunders, with wilson a TBD. peyton won't save tanny. sanchez can.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4387357]I suspect after Brady and Manning retire Sanchez will be in his prime and might be a top 10 NFL QB. Not good enough.[/QUOTE]

    How can I get this point through to people?

    Your perception of a top 10 QB probably is off:

    Let me see if I can explain this properly:

    Joe Montana was and still is by many considered the greatest QB in NFL history. Joe Montana NEVER had a 4,000 yard season in his career.

    Last year there were 10 QB's over 4,000 yards.

    Since 2003 every QB who has won a Super Bowl had, at some point in their career, a 4,000 yard season.

    Most had 30 TD seasons as well.

    They solidify themselves as the centerpiece of their entire team.

    I remember watching the Ravens in 2000 when they ran the crap out of the ball and played d. Passing was for emergencies.

    Same for a lot of the Parcells' Giants' teams. OJ or Joe Morris would win them titles.

    There's no indication of this changing. Sanchez could surprise the crap out of me next year and go 4,000 yards, 28+ TD's, less than 16 picks, and a 62% completion percentage.

    But I don't think he projects to that. I don't see it.

    If we could get Manning (AND HE'S HEALTHY) then looking forward to the future would be incredibly stupid since the primary thing that matters is having a QB who can win games nearly by himself because when you are playing with a lead, you can blitz more and the other team generally has to pass more, which means you get more pressure.

    Aside from that, there's a lot working against Sanchez:

    1) Young
    2) Limited starting experience in college coming in
    3) Luck, RG3, and Newton all project better than he did.
    4) West Coast guy on the East Coast (different culture)
    5) He's from USC (look at their history of drafted QB's.......ech)

    The thing that kills me is that Sanchez probably would've been drafted behind guys like Daulton, Locker, and even Gabbert last year. I never thought he was some great prospect. He was what was there at the time..........
    Last edited by PMarsico9; 03-07-2012 at 03:01 PM.

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