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Thread: Vladimir Ducasse and Wayne Hunter ?

  1. #1
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    Vladimir Ducasse and Wayne Hunter ?

    Guys, I think it is incumbent upon Mike Tannenbaum and co to move these guys and get some tangible value for them. I know that the fan base is really down on these guys, but we can't afford to not get something of value to upgrade. Tony Sporano is an OC by trade and perhaps will be able to coach them up, especially in Ducasse's case. I'd be ok with jettisoning Hunter for a 4th or so, but Ducasse has to much unearthed talent that we need to give time to season. We do need to go OL early in the draft.

  2. #2
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    Hunter = totally worthless, if they got a 7th rounder for him it would be a win.

    Someone would take Ducassee but certainly at way way below the 2nd round value we put on him. Unless Ducassee really is terrible they should keep him at this point.

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    it's the equivalent of giving away herpes. any takers?

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    [QUOTE=Medianoche;4391236]Guys, I think it is incumbent upon Mike Tannenbaum and co to move these guys and get some tangible value for them. I know that the fan base is really down on these guys, but we can't afford to not get something of value to upgrade. Tony Sporano is an OC by trade and perhaps will be able to coach them up, especially in Ducasse's case. I'd be ok with jettisoning Hunter for a 4th or so, but Ducasse has to much unearthed talent that we need to give time to season. We do need to go OL early in the draft.[/QUOTE]

    Hunter value is as back-up / spot starter.. Not sure his contract would be appealing via trade.. Ducasse is a second round bust with no value...

    Sparano's blocking scheme my increase their value to Jet's, but think that Vernon Carey makes sense from a F/A standpoint as stop gap... Draft is another option but Jets have many needs. prefer BAP approach

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    [QUOTE=jetfan51;4391257] Ducasse is a second round bust with no value...

    [/QUOTE]

    You are all ready ready to throw in the towel on Ducasse ? Really ???

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    They're going to combine the two into one supertackle.

    Like Master Blaster, but not as cool.

  7. #7
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    Ducasse has size and speed so is the issue either intelligence or instincts? A little reseach:

    Ducasse was considered one of the best offensive guard prospects available in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft"]2010 NFL Draft[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse#cite_note-CBS_2010_OG-2"][SIZE=2][3][/SIZE][/URL] He worked out TEST Sports Clubs in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinsville,_New_Jersey"]Martinsville, New Jersey[/URL] in order to prepare himself for the NFL combine.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse#cite_note-3"][SIZE=2][4][/SIZE][/URL] [B]He scored 13 on the [/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic"][B]Wonderlic[/B][/URL][B] intelligence test[/B].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse#cite_note-4"][SIZE=2][5][/SIZE][/URL]
    [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse[/URL]


    [B]Average scores for other professions[/B]

    While an average football player usually scores around 20 points, Wonderlic, Inc. claims a score of at least 10 points suggests a person is [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literate"]literate[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic#cite_note-Merron-1"][SIZE=2][2][/SIZE][/URL] Furthermore, when the test was given to miscellaneous people of various occupations, it was observed that the average participant scored a 24. Examples of scores from everyday professions include:[SIZE=2][[I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I]][/SIZE]
    [LIST][*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologist"]Geologist[/URL] 36[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemist"]Chemist[/URL] 31[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmer"]Programmer[/URL] 29[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalist"]Journalist[/URL] 26[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales"]Sales[/URL] 24[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_teller"]Bank teller[/URL] 22[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_worker"]Clerical worker[/URL] 21[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_guard"]Security guard[/URL] 17[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse"]Warehouse[/URL] worker 15[/LIST][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic[/URL]

    That's pretty scary. Can't find anything on his grades in college but will update when\if I do.

  8. #8
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    Why don't we see what the new OL Coach, Sparano and a complete offseason accomplishes before deeming Duchasse and Hunter as totally worthless.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Medianoche;4391236]Guys, I think it is incumbent upon Mike Tannenbaum and co to move these guys and get some tangible value for them. I know that the fan base is really down on these guys, but we can't afford to not get something of value to upgrade. Tony Sporano is an OC by trade and perhaps will be able to coach them up, especially in Ducasse's case. I'd be ok with jettisoning Hunter for a 4th or so, but Ducasse has to much unearthed talent that we need to give time to season. We do need to go OL early in the draft.[/QUOTE]

    those 2 players arent worth anything. the jets wont get anything for them

  10. #10
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    NFL prospect keeps eye on homeland UMass lineman from Haiti living a dream

    [QUOTE=JetsNeedNewton;4391310]Ducasse has size and speed so is the issue either intelligence or instincts? A little reseach:

    Ducasse was considered one of the best offensive guard prospects available in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft"]2010 NFL Draft[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse#cite_note-CBS_2010_OG-2"][SIZE=2][3][/SIZE][/URL] He worked out TEST Sports Clubs in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinsville,_New_Jersey"]Martinsville, New Jersey[/URL] in order to prepare himself for the NFL combine.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse#cite_note-3"][SIZE=2][4][/SIZE][/URL] [B]He scored 13 on the [/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic"][B]Wonderlic[/B][/URL][B] intelligence test[/B].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse#cite_note-4"][SIZE=2][5][/SIZE][/URL]
    [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Ducasse[/URL]


    [B]Average scores for other professions[/B]

    While an average football player usually scores around 20 points, Wonderlic, Inc. claims a score of at least 10 points suggests a person is [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literate"]literate[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic#cite_note-Merron-1"][SIZE=2][2][/SIZE][/URL] Furthermore, when the test was given to miscellaneous people of various occupations, it was observed that the average participant scored a 24. Examples of scores from everyday professions include:[SIZE=2][[I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I]][/SIZE]
    [LIST][*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologist"]Geologist[/URL] 36[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemist"]Chemist[/URL] 31[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmer"]Programmer[/URL] 29[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalist"]Journalist[/URL] 26[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales"]Sales[/URL] 24[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_teller"]Bank teller[/URL] 22[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_worker"]Clerical worker[/URL] 21[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_guard"]Security guard[/URL] 17[*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse"]Warehouse[/URL] worker 15[/LIST]
    [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic[/URL]

    That's pretty scary. Can't find anything on his grades in college but will update when\if I do.[/QUOTE]

    I thought people on here knew how Vlad moved to the US from Hiati at age 14 and knew/spoke little english..

    [B][SIZE=2]NFL prospect keeps eye on homeland[/SIZE][/B]

    [B][SIZE=2]UMass lineman from Haiti living a dream -- but knows about nightmares[/SIZE][/B]

    By [URL="http://search.espn.go.com/mike-reiss/"] Mike Reiss[/URL] | ESPNBoston.com
    Updated: January 25, 2010, 12:40 PM ET

    AMHERST, Mass. -- The first time [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2010&id=25078"]Vladimir Ducasse[/URL] watched a professional football game was five years ago when the [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nwe"]New England Patriots[/URL] defeated the [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=phi"]Philadelphia Eagles[/URL] in Super Bowl XXXIX.

    He had never dreamed of playing in the NFL because, growing up in Haiti, he didn't know what it was.

    Now he does, and the NFL is certainly aware of him.

    Ducasse is a hot-prospect offensive lineman from the University of Massachusetts who will participate in the Senior Bowl later this month, will attend the NFL combine in February, and is primed to become the highest draft pick in school history since 1968, when the [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=det"]Detroit Lions[/URL] selected quarterback Greg Landry in the first round.
    [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=4846853#"][+] Enlarge[IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0121/bos_i_ducasse1_sw_200.jpg[/IMG][/URL]WD/Icon SMIVladimir Ducasse is close with his father, who still lives in Haiti and survived the earthquake.

    Scouts from all 32 NFL teams visited Ducasse on campus this season, a group including [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan"]Kansas City Chiefs[/URL] general manager Scott Pioli and [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=mia"]Miami Dolphins[/URL] GM Jeff Ireland. Meanwhile, ESPN's Scouts Inc. has Ducasse as the 31st-rated prospect in the draft, a projection that means he could be a late first-round selection.

    Ducasse, a towering presence at 6-foot-5, 330 pounds, is surprised at the attention, considering he played at a Football Championship Subdivision school. He calls it a blessing.

    Given recent events in Haiti -- where his father, Delinois, still lives and some estimate that as many as 200,000 have died after a devastating earthquake -- his words are as powerful as his punch on the football field.

    "It makes me want this even more," the 22-year-old said. "Because of my story, it's possible that a lot of people are going to want to interview me. It would be great to raise awareness of what is going on back there instead of me being the center of attention."

    Ducasse came to the United States when he was 14 and hasn't returned to Haiti since. His father, a successful, hardworking accountant, wanted a safer environment and a better education for Vladimir and his brother Macarthur, so the boys packed their belongings and moved to Stamford, Conn., to live with their uncle Lezanord and his wife, Virginia. But they never forgot what Delinois had always told them: "Be your own boss. Make your own decisions."

    [B]Vladimir, whose mother died when he was 5, said those words have been his guide -- from when he arrived in Stamford speaking little English [/B]to the present day, as he's on the cusp of graduating and entering the NFL.

    The soft-spoken lineman talks to his father about once a week, and although they haven't connected since the earthquake, he knows that his father is alive and well. In the past eight years, they have shared the son's rise from football beginner to top NFL prospect from across the world map.

    Ducasse said that any anxiety he had moving from Haiti was eased because of a significant Haitian community in Stamford. He also believes playing high school football helped him overcome such a big language barrier, even though he was learning on the fly. Before football, Ducasse had mostly played soccer and basketball.

    "At first, he was a kid who didn't know which way the thigh pads went in and didn't understand about putting the mouthpiece in boiling water, the stuff you first learn in Pop Warner," recalled Stamford High football coach Kevin Jones, who laughed when recalling the story of when Ducasse initially expressed his desire to play football.

    "He walked out to spring practice and said, 'I want to play.' I looked at him -- he had to be 6-3 and 275 pounds as a freshman -- and said 'No problem, you made the team.'"
    [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=4846853#"][+] Enlarge[IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0121/ncf_i_ducasse13_300.jpg[/IMG][/URL]WD/Icon SMI"Because of my story, it's possible that a lot of people are going to want to interview me. It would be great to raise awareness of what is going on back there instead of me being the center of attention," Ducasse says of the devastation in Haiti.

    It was rare to see such a physical presence at the high school level, but Ducasse, even with the natural athleticism he displayed, didn't make the varsity squad until his junior year. Jones thinks the language barrier probably helped because Ducasse wasn't forced onto the field and could learn the game in a lower-pressure environment.

    Ducasse showed considerable improvement by his junior year -- he started to spend countless hours watching film -- and was dominant as a senior. Still, major colleges didn't recruit him heavily because he was such a late bloomer and hadn't attended camps like others.

    UMass was holding one-day camps across the region, Jones took Ducasse to one of them, and that's where then-Minutemen coach Don Brown first saw his future left tackle. A few weeks later, Ducasse visited UMass and was offered a full scholarship, which he quickly accepted.

    After Ducasse had committed to UMass, schools such as Buffalo and Temple offered scholarships, but it was too late.

    "The one thing I had told him when he went was to not make any decisions, there would be other visits to take," recalled Jones, who was familiar with the recruiting process from his time as a graduate assistant at Boston College in the '90s. "But he went out in December and, I'll never forget, I was shoveling my driveway and he called me and said, 'Coach, I'm going to UMass.' I thought to myself, 'You have to be kidding me.' But he's one of those kids that once he trusts you, and the fact UMass was first, that's the stuff that matters to him."

    Although Ducasse's college career has mirrored his high school career in some ways -- he came along slowly before emerging as a dominant force -- one major difference has been the intensity of interest from the next level.

    NFL scouts have swarmed through campus throughout the year.

    "It wasn't anything I was used to; normally, you have area scouts and regional scouts come through and that's it. But for this year, you saw multiple scouts from the same team coming out to evaluate Vlad -- an area scout, then another scout, then sometimes a personnel director or an assistant general manager," UMass offensive coordinator Brian Picucci said.

    As far as what type of player the scouts have studied, Picucci calls Ducasse a throwback. He doesn't tape his wrists or wear eye black. He wears the smallest shoulder pads possible and a pair of gloves, and that's it.

    "Vlad plays with a lot of pride and has a quiet inner strength, a quiet confidence about him," Picucci said. "He possesses very, very good feet, very fast hands and powerful, explosive hips. His body is built for power. I think he's surprised a lot of scouts; they initially said he would play guard, but the more they came through, the more they thought his ability, footwork and hand speed could have him at tackle in the NFL."

    Ducasse has spent the past four to five weeks training in New Jersey, and he returned to campus this week for classes. He is a few credits short of earning his degree in African-American studies.

    On Tuesday, he volunteered time at the Campus Center, often the hub of student activity, to raise money for Haiti and the Red Cross. His agent, Joe Linta, also had 20,000 cases of vitaminwater shipped to Haiti in Ducasse's name.

    "I still know the country needs more than that," Ducasse said.

    In time, Ducasse might be able to provide much more. For now, he figures that one of the best things he can do is seize his present opportunity -- the chance to make his name in the NFL while spreading awareness about his roots and the current challenges in Haiti.

    It seems to be something he is slowly growing comfortable with.

    "He had been very private about [his roots]; I don't think he liked to talk about it because he doesn't want people to feel bad for him," said former UMass quarterback Liam Coen, who is helping Ducasse prepare for the Senior Bowl and combine. "What he went through is obviously so different than what most others did. He had to mature a lot faster than the average kid.

    "Spending some more time with him off the field, he's not the type of kid to take anything for granted. Throughout this entire process, he's been modest and humble; he told a bunch of guys he's friends with that he doesn't want anybody to treat him differently with the NFL and earthquake situation. He said 'Continue to bust my chops and keep it the way it was.'"

    For Jones, his high school coach, this is the "story of a lifetime."

    "He started from scratch, and you just watched him grow," he said. "You look at the kind of man he's become, and see how he was anxious to get back to school to help raise awareness for Haiti, it's just really rewarding to see."

    There have been many rewards along the way for Ducasse, and he has positioned himself well for yet another one through the flagship campus of the state university. "Coming to this country was worth it," he said.

    Now a whole new world is ahead.

    It's one he's eager to enter, while never forgetting where his journey started.

    [URL]http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=4846853[/URL]

  11. #11
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    I think Vlad may have trouble with the language which could have led to a poor Wonderlic score. Not to mention I think it is safe to assume that he did not get a high quality education while living in Haiti.

    But I will say that it should have been a red flag that he scored half of what the average Offensive Tackle is expected to score.

    I think is he doesn't show improvement in camp they should just cut bait. If Sparano is anywhere near as good as people claim him to be, he should be able to get some level of improvement out of him.

    On a personal level I am happy for him that he has been able to help his family and improve his life. I think he is a great story. But that doesn't make me want him to play for my football team.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4391372]I think Vlad may have trouble with the language which could have led to a poor Wonderlic score. Not to mention I think it is safe to assume that he did not get a high quality education while living in Haiti.

    But I will say that it should have been a red flag that he scored half of what the average Offensive Tackle is expected to score.

    [B]I think is he doesn't show improvement in camp they should just cut bait. If Sparano is anywhere near as good as people claim him to be, he should be able to get some level of improvement out of him.[/B]

    On a personal level I am happy for him that he has been able to help his family and improve his life. I think he is a great story. But that doesn't make me want him to play for my football team.[/QUOTE]

    It's going to be more of the OLs coach Dave DeGuglielmo responsibility to get improvement out of Duchasse..That is his job and responsibility...Sprano's is to get the whole Offense to execute and play better

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Medianoche;4391273]You are all ready ready to throw in the towel on Ducasse ? Really ???[/QUOTE]

    Yes

    [QUOTE=jetfan51;4391257][B]Hunter value is as back-up / spot starter.. Not sure his contract would be appealing via trade.. Ducasse is a second round bust with no value...[/B]

    Sparano's blocking scheme my increase their value to Jet's, but think that Vernon Carey makes sense from a F/A standpoint as stop gap... Draft is another option but Jets have many needs. prefer BAP approach[/QUOTE]

    Agree.

  14. #14
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    I'm all for giving him a chance to mature and maybe a less complicated offense will help. But I was kind of looking for reasons he was developing slowly. You have to be smart and a quick thinker to survive the NFL and that's what Wonderlic is supposed to be testing. You would think to be a recognized predictor of performance it would take language issues into account but I can't say that for sure.

    Follow the link and you'll see it's less a "school knowledge" test than one that looks at your ability to think on your feet. The way he got pushed around out there it was clear he wasn't reacting the way a pro should.

    Anyway, if we could draft that Corey dude he and Ducasse would account for over 650lbs of OL. Coughlin obviously couldn't do the job last year so let's hope Sporano gets him the help he needs.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=C Mart;4391387]It's going to be more of the OLs coach Dave DeGuglielmo responsibility to get improvement out of Duchasse..That is his job and responsibility...Sprano's is to get the whole Offense to execute and play better[/QUOTE]

    I think Sparano is going to have his hands all over the OL. I think he has to. And if he doesn't that is a major blunder by Rex and whoever else made the decision.

    He wasn't brought in here b.c he was an accomplished play-caller.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4391435]I think Sparano is going to have his hands all over the OL. I think he has to. And if he doesn't that is a major blunder by Rex and whoever else made the decision.

    He wasn't brought in here b.c he was an accomplished play-caller.[/QUOTE]

    Then he should have been hired as the OL coach and not OC..

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=C Mart;4391464]Then he should have been hired as the OL coach and not OC..[/QUOTE]

    I think it is OK to assume he can do both. DeGuglielmo will be with them most of the time but they will be marching to Sparano's beat.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4391472]I think it is OK to assume he can do both. DeGuglielmo will be with them most of the time but they will be marching to Sparano's beat.[/QUOTE]

    Of course. Because it's his offense...the day to day teachings of the OL will fall to the OL coach, which is what I have been saying.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=C Mart;4391480]Of course. Because it's his offense...the day to day teachings of the OL will fall to the OL coach, which is what I have been saying.[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough. My point was the OL coach will be teaching what Sparano wants taught. Which I don't think is a problem bc I think they hired someone inline with Sparano's philosophy.

  20. #20
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    this seems like its turning into another vernon gholston situation where the coaches and fans are trying to reach for something that isn't there.

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