it isn't, and only someone being intellectually dishonest would say so, people suspect fraud, they report it, it gets investigated...you really need me to spell out how that is easily documented?
so, if I were to say that we should have handicapped access at public buildings I should prove how hard it could be for people in wheelchairs first by throwing them down a flight of stairs?Yes. The burden in this issue should be on those claiming they cannot meet a basic requirement of identifying themselves, and establishing they posess the right to vote in the first place.
I mean, the burden should be on those who say it is hard to do...
For me, if it were as simple as use what you already have, then I say go for it, but if it is, hey you have to go to the dmv to get it and the state or fed pays for the ID or you do, and you need proof of who you are to get one it creeps into voter polling tax.Not common where I sit.
From where I sit I see one side protecting a system that does not meet a basic sniff test of accountabillity.
An ID check at the voting both is as basic and fundamental a rule as I could image. If I were crafting any kind of Democartioc system, proof of identity at the time of vote would almost literally be step #1 in the voting process.
Hell, I'd get rid of registration before I'd get rid of ID checks. If it were up to me, everyone with a Social Security Card could vote be default, and simply have to produce it at the time of casting their vote.
having said that though, I would be all for testing it out on a small scale, locally, and see what the effects and costs are, and I would even say test it where voter fraud is believed to be random.
I will sign up right now if you will.
and UFOs could be carrying our alien overlords. That impacts everything as far as I am concerned.
Another issue liberals are off the wall with.
There is no reason why any persons legally born in this country and 18 years of age or older should not have ID. This should be mandatory.
If people don't have to show residency or ID why should I waste my time voting at all? The right to vote doesn't mean people shouldn't have to show that they are registered residents and show who they are with some proof and today the proof that is required everywhere is a picture ID.
Our entire system is built on one person one vote and verifying who you are when casting that vote isn't an infringement on anyone's rights. Not verifying who you are is an assault on the entire voting concept. You can't function in this society without a picture ID of some kind. It's not unreasonable for people to show it when they vote.
Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 03-14-2012 at 11:48 AM.
No ID check at the time of vote = no way of being 100% sure the person who voted was the person they claimed to be.
The burden should not be on the tiny minority that MIGHT Be reported (based on what, if no ID check is being made at the time, intuition?)
And I must point out, you've made no effort to prove that the requirement of an ID is a burden of any kind. Your only argument is "it won't do anything", which is no argument at all if ti stops even one event of voter fraud.
WTF are you talking about?so, if I were to say that we should have handicapped access at public buildings I should prove how hard it could be for people in wheelchairs first by throwing them down a flight of stairs?
I mean, the burden should be on those who say it is hard to do...
Stay with me here, the issue we're discussing is Voting and ID's. Not handicapped ramps.
Yes, the burden should be on the voter to prove their identiy at the time they vote.
The burden is yours to prove that that requirement is an undue burden.
No it's doesn't, thats laughable. Or worse, supportive of a racist idea that minorities are somehow lesser able to meet basic requirements like "shock" getting some form of State ID.For me, if it were as simple as use what you already have, then I say go for it, but if it is, hey you have to go to the dmv to get it and the state or fed pays for the ID or you do, and you need proof of who you are to get one it creeps into voter polling tax.
You must not think very highly of minorities tbh, if you think getting an ID is somehow beyond their abillities.
And again, I won't be reporting anything, because I've already been harassed, threatened with arrest and even physically handled for attempting to do so in the past. I've learned my lesson. The system needs fixing. There's no enforcing, when laws are in place to prevent it.
But feel free to give it a shot, since you think it is so easy.
Last edited by JetPotato; 03-14-2012 at 11:47 AM.
I am calling your bluff, let's do it together and you can prove it to me in my face, I'll even buy lunch and beers afterwards.
PM me, let me know where to go to sign up and we can do it together.
We can even sing that song by the turtles while we do it.
So no, not a strawman at all. It is the core of the side you are defending, your specific support of it or not.
Unlike that said, I have more than enough faith in ALL Americans, majority or minority, to meet the basic burden of aquiring a free State-Issued ID if they wish to express their right to vote.
Nor is it ours to do yours.it isn't my job to do your research for you
You make a laughably illogical claim that "voter fraud doeasn;t exist" while simultaiously defending a system seemingly designed to permit voter fraud by not performing a basic first-level confirmation check of voter identification.
Nor, apparently, can you see the problem that relying on "investigations of reported fraud" is laughably inefficient, given that no ID's are being checked int he first place, meaning those who would report such fraud are inherantly lacking the basic first-level tool they'd need to be able to prove (and hence report) that fruad.
so I have to answer for everyone? I must defend all positions even if I don't subscribe to them or mention them?
don't forget old people, not just minorities but old people too!
I have done it, that is where I get my info from, just because what I read and looked up doesn't push your message doesn't mean I have to go back to the well, it means you have to.Nor is it ours to do yours.
I said rarfe, not that it doesn't exist. Your use of quotes doesn't make it true. No wonder you get frothy at the mouth, you make up what other people think and say and then get angry at your bizarre liberal Frankenstein.You make a laughably illogical claim that "voter fraud doeasn;t exist"
this is so illogical that I don't even know where to begin. So the only way to prove voter fraud is to produce an ID, but according to you and everyone else voter fraud is rampant, even though you can't prove it or disprove it, because we don't have photo IDs, but if we had ID then we could prove it exists, but it wouldn't exist because we would have photo IDs.Nor, apparently, can you see the problem that relying on "investigations of reported fraud" is laughably inefficient, given that no ID's are being checked int he first place, meaning those who would report such fraud are inherantly lacking the basic first-level tool they'd need to be able to prove (and hence report) that fruad.
The only thing in this issue that doesn;t pass a basic smell test, is a claim that showing ID when voting is any form of undue burden.
right, the idea that reporting voter fraud gets you physically accosted, that seems to make sense.
"Hey, mr attorney general, I think voter fraud occured at such and such location"
"you shut your lying mouth!"
here is my argument:
I don't think Voter Photo ID will really stop voter fraud that truly does happen, because most reports of fraud happen outside the polling booth. Ballot stuffing and other forms of electoral fraud would be unaffected.
I don't think it would have any effect on voter registration fraud.
I don't think the cost associated with giving everyone a free ID would be well spent.
The only thing an ID would do is possibly suppress voting, now what that number would be.
How would the expiration work? If I had to pay for it what would it cost? When do I have to renew it? Where do I go to do that?
having said all that, I wouldn't oppose photo ID at the voter booth if it came to pass, I just don't think it is a cure for the actual election shenanigans that really happen in this country.