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Thread: Has anyone ever picked a fight with the Catholic Church and won?

  1. #21
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    Whats up with the Catholic Church sage rattling? :confused:

    You do realize that the Catholic Church, while gaining globally, has lost the most members of any religion in the U.S. in recent years, right?

  2. #22
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    I remember how proud I was to be a Catholic the day Poland freed herself from communist tyranny, because Pope John Paul II was so inspirational in that movement, which led to the downfall of the iron curtain and the soviet union.

    How ironic that I will experience that same joy on November 7th, when the Moonbat Messiah will be removed from office, and all his hopes, dreams and plans to re-create the Soviet Union here in the USA will be thrown on the trash heap by the same Church that pissed on communism's grave the first time. :yes:

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4402532]I remember how proud I was to be a Catholic the day Poland freed herself from communist tyranny, because Pope John Paul II was so inspirational in that movement, which led to the downfall of the iron curtain and the soviet union.[/QUOTE]

    Giving the Pope credit for the downfall of communism in Poland? I'd say Walesa and the Solidarity were much bigger factors.

  4. #24
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    Yea moonbat, the Obama administration is exactly like Poland being dominated by the USSR.

    You are like JP II!

    Can I be Reagan? I want to raise taxes and cut n' run in Beirut but have nobody remember me for it.

  5. #25
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    WARSAW, Poland, AUG. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Lech Walesa attributed the inspiration for the labor union Solidarity, and particularly its peaceful character, to Pope John Paul II.

    "He did not ask us to make a revolution, he did not ask for a coup d'état; rather, he suggested that we define ourselves," said Walesa, when addressing the two Houses of Parliament during a commemorative ceremony Monday marking the 25th anniversary of the Polish labor union.

    "Then the Polish nation and many others woke up," noted the electrician and one-time Solidarity leader, who helped to bring down the Communist regime in Poland. Walesa later became the country's first postwar democratic president.

    Walesa said that John Paul II's visit to Poland in 1979 gave Poles the courage to rebel against the country's Communist leaders.

    [url]http://www.zenit.org/article-13847?l=english[/url]

    [B][U]Lech Walesa credits Pope for communism's downfall[/U][/B]


    Former Polish Solidarity leader Lech Walesa, who himself has been given the credit for the end of communism in Poland, has told a press conference in the US that Pope John Paul II deserves 'the greater credit'.

    Speaking in Kansas City last week on the eve of Polski Day celebrations commemorating Polish independence, he said there was no question in his mind who deserved the greater credit.

    "At the moment when the pope was elected I think I had, at the most, 20 people that were around me and supported me -- and there were 40 million Polish people in the country," he said. "However ... a year after (the pope's) visit to Poland, I had 10 million supporters and suddenly we had so many people willing to join the movement,".

    Walesa continued: "I compare this to the miracle of the multiplication of bread in the desert."

    [url]http://cathnews.acu.edu.au/105/57.php[/url]

    [B][U]1983: Pope meets banned union leader Walesa[/U][/B]

    Pope John Paul II has held a private meeting with Lech Walesa, the founder and leader of Solidarity, Poland's independent trade union movement.

    Solidarity has been banned since December 1981 when martial law was declared following social tensions in Poland.

    It is the second time Pope John Paul II - who was formerly Archbishop of Krakow - has returned to his native Poland since he became head of the Roman Catholic Church in 1978.

    Mr Walesa met the Pope in the Tatra Mountains in the south of the country towards the end of his eight-day visit to Poland.

    [COLOR="Red"][B] This right is not given to us by the state...It is a right given by the Creator
    Pope John Paul II
    [/B][/COLOR] :yes:

    Solidarity sources say the Pope told Mr Walesa that he should rely on the advice of the Catholic Church, rather than organising street demonstrations as part of the trade union movement's campaign to bring about political reforms in Poland.

    As Archbishop, Karol Wojtyla took an uncompromising stand against the Communist regime.

    But the Pope has urged the country to try to resolve its differences through dialogue and not confrontation.

    Officials close to Mr Walesa say the Pope also told the Solidarity leader that martial law could be lifted by the autumn.

    This, they say, was indicated to the Pope by Prime Minister General Wojciech Jaruzelski during talks just hours before he met Mr Walesa.

    Mr Walesa has said he was "moved and enthusiastic" about his meeting with the Pope, and is willing to take a "back seat" as a focus for opposition to the government in ending martial law.

    The Pope has also addressed a congregation of two million worshippers in Katowice, Poland's industrial heartland in the south, and told them that workers should be able to join free trade unions.

    He said: "This right is not given to us by the state. It is a right given by the Creator."

    During his visit the Pope blessed the widows of workers killed when martial law was imposed.

    The Polish Government has said it will cooperate closely with the Catholic Church in the future, and it is well known the Pope would like the church to be involved in any reconciliation process.

    President Henryk Jablonski, who said goodbye to the Pope at Krakow airport, told reporters that "dialogue is possible and inevitable".

    Before returning to the Vatican in Rome, the Pope made a televised address to the Polish people from the airport.

    He said: "The nation must develop by its own means and resources."


    [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/23/newsid_4002000/4002537.stm[/url]


    [B][U]Lech Walesa Refused to Meet with Barack Obama[/U][/B]
    Submitted by may on May 28, 2011 - 12:11am

    Lech Walesa refused to meet with Barack Obama during Obama’s visit to Poland. Walesa and the good people of Poland have sound reasons to hold Obama in strong contempt. Early in his Presidency, Obama bowed to the wishes of Vladimir Putin and ceased plans to construct a US missile shield over Poland and Czechoslovakia.

    Obama confirmed early during his Presidency that other countries would not be able to rely on the United States to honor its military security commitments as long as Obama would be in the White House. Walesa apparently has decided not to tell Obama what he thinks of him – at least not this time. The Mail reported Walesa as saying,
    'It's difficult to tell journalists what you'd like to say to the president of a superpower. This time I won't tell him, I won't meet him, it doesn't suit me,' Walesa told news station TVN24.
    Lech Walesa is a man of courage. Walesa earned his Nobel Peace Prize the old fashioned way – he deserved it. I can only assume that Walesa holds Obama and his politically correct Nobel Peace Prize in appropriate contempt for Obama’s cowardice in confronting the Russian Bear and for abandoning Eastern Europe to the Russians.


    The president hadn't even had a chance to redecorate the Oval Office before he felt the need, in fall of 2009, to appease Moscow by scrapping plans to build a missile defense shield protecting Poland and the Czech Republic from attack by Russia, Iran or any other aggressor.

    At the time, the Polish minister of defense said, "This is catastrophic for Poland."

    The message, once again, delivered loud and clear to America's friends, allies and enemies alike, is that the U.S. can't be relied on.

    This is what American voters get when they elect to the presidency an underexperienced man weighed down by an oversized ego.

    Obama charged that the "the Bush administration responded to the unconventional attacks of 9/11 with conventional thinking of the past, largely viewing problems as state-based and principally amenable to military solutions."

    His replacement for that "tragically misguided view" has been the appeasement of the Free World's enemies — from favoring Palestinian terrorists over Israel, to allowing Iran to move steadily toward becoming a nuclear weapons power, to compromising Ronald Reagan's dream of functional missile defense.

    The ego-based Obama foreign policy is designed not to defend liberty against its enemies, not to recognize and act effectively against the greatest threats in the world — a soon-to-be nuclear Islamofascist Iran being at the top of the list — but to score PR points and shoot for big deals.

    President Barack Obama is flying to Poland after the G-8 Summit in France to seek advice on how to orchestrate the equivalent of the falling of the Berlin Wall in the Middle East. Obama apparently sees opportunity in the “Arab Spring” and desperately wants to be credited with good happenings in the Middle East as Ronald Regan was credited in Berlin and all of Eastern Europe.

    [url]http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/may/2011-05-28/lech-walesa-refused-meet-barack-obama[/url]

    :rotfl:

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4402651]WARSAW, Poland, AUG. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Lech Walesa attributed the inspiration for the labor union Solidarity, and particularly its peaceful character, to Pope John Paul II.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't say the Pope played no role, I just think giving him the bulk of the credit is a huge stretch and discounts all the blood and sacrifice that actually went into making the fall of communism a reality.

    Boots on the ground implementing change and fighting against communism far outweighs "inspiration" from the Pope during a visit in 1979.

  7. #27
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    Back to Chicago, Barky and the boys!

    [url]http://acepilots.com/images/bloggahland.jpg[/url]

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4402600]Yea moonbat, the Obama administration is exactly like Poland being dominated by the USSR.

    You are like JP II!

    Can I be Reagan? I want to raise taxes and cut n' run in Beirut but have nobody remember me for it.[/QUOTE]

    Reagan cut and run in Beirut because he knew it was a no win propisition and the taxes were raised as a bargain with the democrats who ran both houses.

  9. #29
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    I try to get my head around the idea of a low class adolescent punk being President of the United States, but if I bend my sanity that far it will break.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4402676]I didn't say the Pope played no role, I just think giving him the bulk of the credit [/QUOTE]

    You must have missed the parts I bolded and underlined.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4402703]I try to get my head around the idea of a low class adolescent punk being President of the United States, but if I bend my sanity that far it will break.[/QUOTE]

    Shouldnt you be guarding the back gate? Fingerhut in camos, Mickey D's misses you stateside.

  12. #32
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    That's right, us Catholics took down the evil Soviet Union; we'll have no problem getting rid of B.O.'s mickey mouse version come November. :yes:

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4402754]That's right, us Catholics took down the evil Soviet Union; we'll have no problem getting rid of B.O.'s mickey mouse version come November. :yes:[/QUOTE]


    [QUOTE=Ephesians 2:8-9]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.[/QUOTE]

    :rolleyes:

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4402600]Yea moonbat, the Obama administration is exactly like Poland being dominated by the USSR.

    You are like JP II!

    Can I be Reagan? I want to raise taxes and cut n' run in Beirut but have nobody remember me for it.[/QUOTE]

    While Reagan did raise taxes several times he presided over a NET tax cut but don't let the details get in the way...

    [QUOTE]Number of years after enactment
    Tax bill 1 2 3 4 First 2-yr avg 4-yr avg
    [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Recovery_Tax_Act_of_1981"]Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981[/URL] -1.21 -2.60 -3.58 -4.15 -1.91 -2.89
    [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982"]Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982[/URL] 0.53 1.07 1.08 1.23 0.80 0.98
    [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Revenue_Act_of_1982"]Highway Revenue Act of 1982[/URL] 0.05 0.11 0.10 0.09 0.08 0.09
    Social Security Amendments of 1983 0.17 0.22 0.22 0.24 0.20 0.21
    Interest and Dividend Tax Compliance Act of 1983 -0.07 -0.06 -0.05 -0.04 -0.07 -0.05
    Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 0.24 0.37 0.47 0.49 0.30 0.39
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 0.02 0.06 0.06 0.06 0.04 0.05
    [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Reform_Act_of_1986"]Tax Reform Act of 1986[/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics#cite_note-39"][40][/URL] 0.41 0.02 -0.23 -0.16 0.22 0.01
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 0.19 0.28 0.30 0.27 0.24 0.26
    Total 0.33 -0.53 -1.63 -1.97 -0.10 -0.95[/QUOTE][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics[/URL]

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4402735]You must have missed the parts I bolded and underlined.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't miss them, just find them to be largely irrelevant to the overall situation. Walesa was a humble man and was politically savvy enough to understand that the nation he led was almost entirely made up of devout Catholics.

    I am of Polish decent, and I have family and friends who sacrificed blood, sweat, and tears in the Solidarity movement to bring down communism. Please do not insult their actions and memories by giving sole credit to a Pope who visited the country ten years beforehand.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4401502]The Protestants all did, and they all won. They're all still here, after all.[/QUOTE]

    Starting your own make believe church is NOT winning; its going to find another game to play in. BIG difference.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4402864]Please do not insult their actions and memories by giving sole credit to a Pope who visited the country ten years beforehand.[/QUOTE]

    C'mon bro.

    Super-Pope came and saved the day. It was awesome. He let the Polish people endure 4 and a half decades of Communist oppression and then showed up in the nick of time to save everybody.

    Hip.

    Hip.

    HOORAY!!

    :P

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4402811]While Reagan did raise taxes several times he presided over a NET tax cut but don't let the details get in the way...

    [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Obama has cut taxes for 95% of Americans. But since he's for letting the Bush tax cuts expire, he's a dirty redistributing liberal?

    Reagan had to compromise, and he did. When will contemporary Republicans do the same?

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=quantum;4402865]Starting your own make believe church is NOT winning; its going to find another game to play in. BIG difference.[/QUOTE]

    A successful secession is a win for the rebel, correct?

    And look at geopolitics from the protestant reformation on. A series of resounding defeats for the French and Spanish, coupled with a the great rise of Great Britain, the Netherlands and Prussia.

    Protestants have been kicking Catholic ass since their inception.

  20. #40
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    what the hell is a moonbat?

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