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Thread: Republican Senators Propose Medicare Changes

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4402369]The amount that goes in is not enough to cover what goes out. The simple reality is that we can not pay for it anymore. It is basic math. There isn't enough money to go around and the Medicare trust fund will be broke in a few years. The alternative is to let the country default and descend in to chaos. All of these programs need to be adjusted to make them sustainable. The question is how many of the sheeple actually understand this reality.[/QUOTE]

    The simple math isn't simple if it was we wouldn't have been able to play hide the wiener for decades to get us where we are today. Government has controlled a good portion of our medical care and helped inflate the cost with poor methodology that has been doubled down on by private insurance and the health care industry

    We have a fortune in untapped natural resources that we are underutilizing and under charging for. We have crappy tax policy which is a drag on our economy and our tax revenue and we have had decades of poor political management which has increased inflation and eaten away at our savings and increased our health care costs.

    I'm shocked that the Conservative answer for the concept of a paid in pension and health system, the foundational idea behind SS and Medicare, is to means test it. That is the kind of Socialism you and other Conservatives have accused Obama of since day one.

    SS and Medicare have wide spread support because people have ownership of it. Republicans supporting means testing is a Trojan horse and everyone knows it. I would have more respect for them if they came out for privatization rather than a Marxist attempt to destroy public support of it.

    The Republicans don't have the balls to tell the truth so they want to use Jedi/Democratic mind tricks on us through means testing. The Rpublicans are treating the public like Shepples. They will get what the deserve for lacking the balls to be straight with the public.

  2. #22
    There is simple math and government math.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4402371]SS and Medicare are not retirement programs they are a safety net.[/QUOTE]

    Since when? There is a huge number of older folks who will not support or agree with this statement in any way.

  4. #24
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4402488]The simple math isn't simple if it was we wouldn't have been able to play hide the wiener for decades to get us where we are today. Government has controlled a good portion of our medical care and helped inflate the cost with poor methodology that has been doubled down on by private insurance and the health care industry

    We have a fortune in untapped natural resources that we are underutilizing and under charging for. We have crappy tax policy which is a drag on our economy and our tax revenue and we have had decades of poor political management which has increased inflation and eaten away at our savings and increased our health care costs.

    I'm shocked that the Conservative answer for the concept of a paid in pension and health system, the foundational idea behind SS and Medicare, is to means test it. That is the kind of Socialism you and other Conservatives have accused Obama of since day one.

    SS and Medicare have wide spread support because people have ownership of it. Republicans supporting means testing is a Trojan horse and everyone knows it. I would have more respect for them if they came out for privatization rather than a Marxist attempt to destroy public support of it.

    The Republicans don't have the balls to tell the truth so they want to use Jedi/Democratic mind tricks on us through means testing. The Rpublicans are treating the public like Shepples. They will get what the deserve for lacking the balls to be straight with the public.[/QUOTE]

    You are offering up criticism without a solution. I disagree that SS and Medicare are pensions. They are a social safety net. If they were pensions we would have real ownership of them. Bush tried personal accounts for SS and was demonized.

  5. #25
    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4402581]You are offering up criticism without a solution. I disagree that SS and Medicare are pensions. They are a social safety net. If they were pensions we would have real ownership of them. Bush tried personal accounts for SS and was demonized.[/QUOTE]

    Your Comrades in the Republican Party are lucky McCarthy is dead.

  6. #26
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4401697]Means testing medicare and social security is absolutely good policy. There's no reason Warren Buffet needs or should be getting government subsidized healthcare[/QUOTE]

    All those social security statements Buffett got mean nothing?

    Good government policy is a government that stands behind it's promises because it can by being fiscally responsible not stealing money from people you believe don't need it.

    We have been kicking the can down the road for years. It's time to have a tax deal and a budget deal and start revamping how medical care is delivered in this country. The Government has been a partner in inflating the cost of medical care for decades. Stealing from one class of people to take care of another with out fundementally fixing our fiscal irresponsability will simply be another kick down the road and a continued spirally down to the bottom. There is nothing wrong with being successful and getting the return on your investment that you were promissed by the US Government. There is something wrong with not changing the real underlying problem and breaking the contract.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 03-20-2012 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #27
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4403857]All those social security statements Buffett got mean nothing?

    Good government policy is a government that stands behind it's promises because it can by being fiscally responsible not stealing money from people you believe don't need it.

    We have been kicking the can down the road for years. It's time to have a tax deal and a budget deal and start revamping how medical care is delivered in this country. The Government has been a partner in inflating the cost of medical care for decades. Stealing from one class of people to take care of another with out fundementally fixing our fiscal irresponsability will simply be another kick down the road and a continued spirally down to the bottom. There is nothing wrong with being successful and getting the return on your investment that you were promissed by the US Government. There is something wrong with not changing the real underlying problem and breaking the contract.[/QUOTE]

    We were promised!

    We were promised welfare and unemployment benefits and other entitlements, too.

    That's the problem. The government promised too much - and, like any ponzi scheme (which, in the end, is what SS as designed is, just with an unlimited supply of new members), eventually won't be able to deliver. If the government could provide all of what "was promised" on Social Security and Medicare without fundamentally changing the programs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Means-testing SS and Medicare is the best first step towards a solution. Everyone pays in not to a retirement program, but to a retirement insurance program. Just like car insurance, which you may pay for for years and never use, you may never use your retirement insurance. And just like car insurance, in fact, you [B]hope[/B] you never have to use it - because [B]not[/B] needing it means you are doing just fine without it.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4403993]We were promised!

    We were promised welfare and unemployment benefits and other entitlements, too.

    That's the problem. The government promised too much - and, like any ponzi scheme (which, in the end, is what SS as designed is, just with an unlimited supply of new members), eventually won't be able to deliver. If the government could provide all of what "was promised" on Social Security and Medicare without fundamentally changing the programs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Means-testing SS and Medicare is the best first step towards a solution. Everyone pays in not to a retirement program, but to a retirement insurance program. Just like car insurance, which you may pay for for years and never use, you may never use your retirement insurance. And just like car insurance, in fact, you [B]hope[/B] you never have to use it - because [B]not[/B] needing it means you are doing just fine without it.[/QUOTE]

    You are right. Until we are all willing to sacrifice and give up what is being spent "on us" then we will never be able to get rid of any spending. This is the biggest reason for not allowing new spending or entitlements. Once they are started they are almost impossible to stop.

  9. #29
    To an extent SS and Medicare ARE currently means tested.
    With SS, if you make more than a certain amount up to 85% of your benefits are taxable. For lower income people, many pay no tax on SS. With Medicare, the base monthly payment is $100 currently. But if you make a certain amount it's higher.
    However, the payments are way to low. My wife and I, in the near future, will be paying roughly $300/month. A supplement is available for $250/month. Total cost=$6600 with ZERO out of pocket except dental and eye.
    A steal. Medicare should be at least twice what it is. For everybody.
    Age for SS and Medicare should be 70. And let's clean up the fraud.

  10. #30
    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4404052]To an extent SS and Medicare ARE currently means tested.
    With SS, if you make more than a certain amount up to 85% of your benefits are taxable. For lower income people, many pay no tax on SS. With Medicare, the base monthly payment is $100 currently. But if you make a certain amount it's higher.
    However, the payments are way to low. My wife and I, in the near future, will be paying roughly $300/month. A supplement is available for $250/month. Total cost=$6600 with ZERO out of pocket except dental and eye.
    A steal. Medicare should be at least twice what it is. For everybody.
    Age for SS and Medicare should be 70. And let's clean up the fraud.[/QUOTE]

    Putting Medicare back another 5 years will kill plenty of people who have put off treatment waiting to reach 65. A brokent health care system that is bleeding this country dry isn't a great reason to put more people out of reach of good health care.

  11. #31
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4403993]We were promised!

    We were promised welfare and unemployment benefits and other entitlements, too.

    That's the problem. The government promised too much - and, like any ponzi scheme (which, in the end, is what SS as designed is, just with an unlimited supply of new members), eventually won't be able to deliver. If the government could provide all of what "was promised" on Social Security and Medicare without fundamentally changing the programs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Means-testing SS and Medicare is the best first step towards a solution. Everyone pays in not to a retirement program, but to a retirement insurance program. Just like car insurance, which you may pay for for years and never use, you may never use your retirement insurance. And just like car insurance, in fact, you [B]hope[/B] you never have to use it - because [B]not[/B] needing it means you are doing just fine without it.[/QUOTE]

    My car insurance isn't means tested because I can afford to fix my car if I get in an accident. I have no problem with making SS and Medicare welfare programs, call it that. There's nothing wrong with believing in Communism or Socialism stop BS everyone by calling it insurance if your going to exclude people who are paying into the insurance pool based on how they did financially over their life time.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 03-20-2012 at 11:52 AM.

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4404190]Putting Medicare back another 5 years will kill plenty of people who have put off treatment waiting to reach 65. A brokent health care system that is bleeding this country dry isn't a great reason to put more people out of reach of good health care.[/QUOTE]

    I am being pragmatic. Prior to 1965 there was no Medicare.
    When SS was initiated in 1935, the life expectancy was 65 - the same age as retirement. Now it's 75 with a 66 eligibility for SS. No sense. Living longer means you should have to pay for your insurance up to a specific age. If it's 70, so be it.

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