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Thread: Go Florida....

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE](CNN) – Imagine the following scenario:

    You are a 17-year-old boy in Sanford, Florida. You are visiting your father and his fiancée at your soon-to-be stepmother’s home in a gated community. You decide to make a late-night candy run to your local 7-Eleven. It’s nighttime and drizzling, so you are wearing a hooded sweatshirt. At the store, you buy a package of Skittles and an Arizona Iced Tea, then head back home.

    As you are walking home, you notice a man in an SUV following you. The man gets out of the car. He’s a big guy who outweighs you by 100 pounds. He doesn’t identify himself as a police officer – in fact, you don’t know who he is. What should you do next?



    According to Florida’s justifiable use of force statute, you have the right to defend yourself. Section 776.012, in relevant part:

    “A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.”

    George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who gunned down 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in his family’s gated community in Sanford, is relying on Florida’s self-defense statute to escape prosecution. Because Florida’s self-defense law affords immunity from prosecution for those who use justifiable force, Sanford Police Department have determined they have no basis to prosecute Zimmerman.

    However, as more facts come to light, it seems that Martin, not Zimmerman, was exercising his statutory right to defend himself against a reasonable apprehension of unlawful force.

    Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee has characterized Martin as the aggressor, based on the police department’s investigation. In an interview published by the Miami Herald, Lee asked rhetorically, “If someone asks you, ‘Hey do you live here?’ is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody?” Lee said. “It’s not.”

    Actually, in Florida, it might be.

    Under the same self-defense statute that Zimmerman is relying on to avoid prosecution, Trayvon Martin also had the right to defend himself against a perceived threat of danger. Section 776.013 provides:

    “A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”

    Trayvon Martin was a teenaged boy who was walking home from a convenience store. He was not engaged in an unlawful activity. He was in a place where he had a right to be – near the home of his father’s fiancée. George Zimmerman followed him, even after being told by the 911 dispatcher not to. Zimmerman left his vehicle holding a loaded gun and began pursuing Martin on foot. It is plausible to infer that Zimmerman, not Martin, initiated the attack. The tapes indicate that Zimmerman may have been the aggressor in initiating contact with Martin. Assuming the published reports are true, Martin, not Zimmerman, was exercising his lawful right to “stand his ground and meet force with force” by engaging in an altercation with Zimmerman.

    By questioning why Martin didn’t simply stop and answer Zimmerman’s questions, and characterizing Martin as the aggressor, Sanford Police Department Chief Bill Lee Jr. appears to have assessed the Martin case using the standards that apply to law enforcement officers. This is wrong. Martin was under no legal duty to obey or to cooperate with Zimmerman in being questioned, because George Zimmerman is not a law enforcement officer.

    Being the local neighborhood watch captain does not elevate him to that status. Nor was Zimmerman asked by any law enforcement officer to assist in detaining Martin – in fact, he was specifically told not to follow Martin. Zimmerman is entitled to none of the presumptions available to law enforcement officers under Florida law. The presumptions of acting in good faith that are afforded to law enforcement officers do not apply to Zimmerman.

    If Zimmerman provoked the altercation with Martin, he is not entitled to claim self-defense. Under Section 776.041, use of force is not justifiable under the statute to a person who initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

    “(a) such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.”

    Neither exception applies to Zimmerman. Martin was armed only with a bag of Skittles and a can of Arizona Iced Tea. Zimmerman had a 9mm handgun. The 911 tapes released by the Sanford Police Department feature the chilling sounds of Martin screaming for help in the background – screams that are silenced by a gunshot. Martin’s screams and cries for help indicate that, he was not a threat to Zimmerman when Zimmerman pulled the trigger.

    Sanford Police Department officials have said no evidence refutes Zimmerman’s claim that he acted in self-defense, but the 911 tapes released by the Sanford Police Department suggest otherwise. Had Zimmerman withdrawn and waited for the police to handle the situation, as he was advised to do by the 911 dispatcher, Martin would be alive today.

    Under Section 776.032 of the Florida Statutes, a person who uses force as permitted by law is immune from criminal prosecution as well as civil action. In reviewing this case to determine whether or not Zimmerman is in fact immune from prosecution, the Florida Attorney General must determine whether or not Zimmerman did in fact use force as permitted by law under Sections 776.012, 776.013, and 776.031.

    [B][U][COLOR="Red"]The attorney general should consider the strong possibility that Zimmerman provoked the attack and that Martin was acting in self-defense – in which case, Zimmerman is not entitled to immunity and may be prosecuted for the death of Trayvon Martin.

    The state of Florida owes the Martin family at least an investigation into this question.[/COLOR][/U][/B][/QUOTE]

    The part in bold is where I am at.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4404433]Do those factors include the fcat that african american youth commit a metric boatload of crime?

    Does it include the steryotype pushed by the media, Hollywood and glorified by african american music culture?

    Seems a rather straitforward question.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, they are factors. Straightforward enough for you? :P

    [QUOTE]Point being, there is no excuse for the shooters overreaction, but it would be nice if the left could spare us the 24/7 racism! racism! racism! wolf crying (s0 when we see it for real, we can call it that right off)[/QUOTE]

    I agree.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4404449]Yes, they are factors. Straightforward enough for you? :P

    I agree.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, and we're (it seems) in 100% agreement here then.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4404463]Yes, and we're (it seems) in 100% agreement here then.[/QUOTE]

    We probably disagree on the level of impact of the factors you stated.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4404479]We probably disagree on the level of impact of the factors you stated.[/QUOTE]

    No, probably not tbh.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE]Crime rates for Sanford, FL

    With a crime rate of 69 per one thousand residents, Sanford has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 14. Within Florida, more than 94% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Sanford.

    Separately, it is always interesting and important to compare a city's crime rate with those of similarly sized communities - a fair comparison as larger cities tend to have more crime. NeighborhoodScout has done just that. With a population of 53,570, Sanford has a combined rate of violent and property crime that is very high compared to other places of similar population size. Regardless of whether Sanford does well or poorly compared to all other cities and towns in the US of all sizes, compared to places with a similar population, it fares badly. Few other communities of this size have a crime rate as high as Sanford.

    The crime data that NeighborhoodScout used for this analysis are the seven offenses from the uniform crime reports, collected by the FBI from 17,000 local law enforcement agencies, and include both violent and property crimes, combined.

    Now let us turn to take a look at how Sanford does for violent crimes specifically, and then how it does for property crimes. This is important because the overall crime rate can be further illuminated by understanding if violent crime or property crimes (or both) are the major contributors to the general rate of crime in Sanford.

    For Sanford, we found that the violent crime rate is one of the highest in the nation, across communities of all sizes (both large and small). Violent offenses tracked included forcible rape, murder and non-negligent manslaughter, armed robbery, and aggravated assault, including assault with a deadly weapon. According to NeighborhoodScout's analysis of FBI reported crime data, your chance of becoming a victim of one of these crimes in Sanford is one in 150.

    In addition, NeighborhoodScout found that a lot of the crime that takes place in Sanford is property crime. Property crimes that are tracked for this analysis are burglary, larceny over fifty dollars, motor vehicle theft, and arson. In Sanford, your chance of becoming a victim of a property crime is one in 16, which is a rate of 63 per one thousand population.

    Importantly, we found that Sanford has one of the highest rates of motor vehicle theft in the nation according to our analysis of FBI crime data. This is compared to communities of all sizes, from the smallest to the largest. In fact, your chance of getting your car stolen if you live in Sanford is one in 255.[/QUOTE]

    Source: [url]http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/fl/sanford/crime/[/url].

    Sandford, if these stats are legit, is in the bottom 3% in America in Safety from being the victim of a crime.

  7. #27
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    We can only hope Malika never vacations in Florida.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE][B][U][SIZE="6"]Killing shows flaws of NRA-backed law[/SIZE][/U][/B]

    By Zachary L. Weaver, Special to CNN

    Editor's note: Zachary L. Weaver is an attorney at Lewis Tein, PL, based in Florida. He is the author of "Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' Law: The Actual Effects and the Need for Clarification."

    Miami (CNN) -- The death of Trayvon Martin is an undeniable tragedy. People are outraged, and rightly so, because a young, unarmed teenager lost his life. The incident has brought Florida's "stand your ground" law into sharp focus in the center of a media and legal firestorm.

    The shooting of Martin was not something that the Florida Legislature anticipated would happen when it enacted the law in 2005.

    When the law was pushed through the legislature, its supporters, including the National Rifle Association, proclaimed it as necessary to give law-abiding citizens the ability to protect themselves.

    The law expanded an individual's legal right to use force, including deadly force, in self-defense. And it allows it in any place, not just in one's home, without fear of civil or criminal consequences when the individual has a "reasonable" fear of death or great bodily harm.

    The National Rifle Association lobbied hard for the law in Florida, which passed the House and Senate with almost no opposition. Based on its resounding success in Florida, the NRA lobbied for similar legislation in many other states. The vast majority of these acts also passed.

    One cannot entirely fault the NRA for supporting the bill. Simply put, it's good for business. As people are encouraged to purchase and use firearms to protect themselves, presumably more guns are purchased and more individuals join the association.

    However, it's becoming increasingly clear that the ramifications of the law are murky.

    In hindsight, it's easy to say the Florida Legislature should have been troubled by the law when it was introduced in the state. And that more attention should have been paid to law enforcement officers and prosecutors who strongly opposed it. Now, these people's fears have proved to be well-founded.

    For police and prosecutors, the law causes confusion as to when prosecution is appropriate. The statute has led to many nonprosecutions after investigations -- it is hard to find that a person did not act in self-defense when the person that was being defended against cannot refute the allegations, i.e., dead men don't talk.

    Many blame the present lack of prosecution in the Martin case on the law. George Zimmerman's belief in his right to use a firearm in self-defense against Martin is difficult to dispute. And legally, the police cannot simply arrest and prosecute him for Martin's death.

    So the question remains: Is the law working for the residents of Florida and other states? The answer depends on your perspective.

    More cases result in no prosecution because of the law, and the law has led to a variety of wins for defendants on motions to dismiss before a trial by jury. Potential defendants and their attorneys undoubtedly see this as a positive change and certainly there are instances where the use of force in self-defense is warranted. But this expanded right to self-defense comes at a price -- more individuals are likely to use deadly force because they feel protected by the law, and more innocent people who may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time are likely to die or be seriously injured as a result.

    Trayvon Martin's death highlights the potential deficiencies and problematic aspects of the law. Let's hope it will force the Florida Legislature and legal system to face these difficult gray areas in what perhaps seemed like a straightforward law when it was passed. Regardless of how the facts of the Martin case play out, lawmakers and the public that elects them should consider whether the law is a benefit to all citizens.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE][B][U][SIZE="6"]Trayvon Martin's alleged attacker not covered under law I wrote[/SIZE][/U][/B]

    By Rep. Dennis Baxley

    Published March 21, 2012

    | FoxNews.com

    The tragic story of Trayvon Martin's death in Sanford, Florida has ignited a great deal of passion and concern regarding the circumstances of his death and the defense applied by the attacker, George Zimmerman. The fact that Trayvon Martin unnecessarily lost his life is troubling and an investigation into the surrounding circumstances is certainly warranted.

    First of all I'd like to extend my condolences to the Martin family.

    I have been in the funeral services profession for over 40 years; I've walked with families through many tragic circumstances and I know how difficult it is.

    I would like to emphasize that the approach that is currently developing in this situation, to convene a grand jury, is the proper one in which to discern the facts of this case. I certainly agree with everyone that justice must be served.

    During the debate concerning this incident, some have brought into question the "Stand Your Ground" law, more commonly referred to as the "castle doctrine," which has been used by the attacker to pardon his actions.

    As the prime sponsor of this legislation in the Florida House, I'd like to clarify that this law does not seem to be applicable to the tragedy that happened in Sanford. There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense.

    When the "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" legislation passed in 2005, the catalytic event that brought the issue to the attention of the Florida Legislature was the looting of property in the aftermath of hurricanes.

    Specifically, there was a situation in the panhandle of Florida where a citizen moved an RV onto his property, to protect the remains of his home from being looted. One evening, a perpetrator broke into the RV and attacked the property owner. The property owner, acting in self-defense in his home, shot and killed the perpetrator.

    It was months before the property owner knew if he would be charged with a crime because of the lack of concrete definition in the statutes regarding self-defense and a perceived duty to retreat by the potential victim.

    Until 2005, the castle doctrine had never been canonized into Florida law, but had been used with differing definition and application to the concept of self-defense. The focus of the law was to provide clear definition to acts of self-defense.

    The facets of the castle doctrine deal with using force to meet force as an act of self-defense when in your home, in your car, on your property, or anywhere you are legally able to be. The law also protects property owners and their homeowner's insurance from being wrongfully sued by perpetrators who claim to be harmed while committing a crime.

    The castle doctrine as passed, clarified that individuals are lawfully able to defend themselves when attacked and there is no duty to retreat when an individual is attacked on their property. Since the passage of this law in Florida, 26 other states have implemented similar statues.

    Additionally, the American Legislative Exchange Council used the Florida version of the castle doctrine as model legislation for other states.

    Quite simply the castle doctrine is a good law which now protects individuals in a majority of states. However, the castle doctrine does not provide protection to individuals who seek to pursue and confront others, as is allegedly the case in the Trayvon Martin tragedy in Sanford.

    The information that has been publicly reported concerning Trayvon Martin's death indicates that the castle doctrine may not be applicable to justify the actions of the attacker, Mr. Zimmerman.

    Media stories sharing the transcripts of the 911 tapes from the evening of the incident clearly show that Mr. Zimmerman was instructed by authorities to remain in his vehicle and to cease pursuit of Mr. Martin. George Zimmerman seems to have ignored the direction of the authorities and continued his pursuit of Mr. Martin.

    Mr. Zimmerman's unnecessary pursuit and confrontation of Trayvon Martin elevated the prospect of a violent episode and does not seem to be an act of self-defense as defined by the castle doctrine. [B][U][COLOR="Red"]There is no protection in the "Stand Your Ground" law for anyone who pursues and confronts people.[/COLOR][/U][/B]

    I have great sympathy for the family of Trayvon Martin and am grateful that things are finally moving in the right direction to further explore what actually happened on that night in Sanford, Florida. Awaiting the convening of the grand jury, I trust that justice will be served and healing will begin for all of those affected.

    Republican Dennis Baxley represents the 24th district in Florida's House of Representatives. He was the prime sponsor of the "Stand Your Ground" law in 2005. He is the principal owner and vice president of Hiers-Baxley Funeral Services.[/QUOTE]

    Two sides of the story on the "Stand Your Ground" Law.
    Last edited by Warfish; 03-22-2012 at 11:44 AM.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4410566]There is no protection in the "Stand Your Ground" law for anyone who pursues and confronts people.[/QUOTE]

    That actually makes a lot of sense.

    [QUOTE]The statute has led to many nonprosecutions after investigations -- it is hard to find that a person did not act in self-defense when the person that was being defended against cannot refute the allegations, i.e., dead men don't talk.[/QUOTE]

    Interesting. I would have at least figured that there would have to be some evidence that you were, in fact, defending yourself (eyewitnesses, physical evidence, etc.) and in the absence of such evidence that the case would proceed forward like any other state in the country that doesn't have this...interesting...law.

    I mean..what's to prevent anyone from committing premeditated murder and then just telling the cops when they showed up that you were simply defending yourself.

    This guy did it to an 11 year old and didn't even get cuffed. What's to stop a husband from killing his spouse and telling the cops, "Hey man...she came after me with that knife that's right there on the ground next to her body (which I planted right before I called 911)"....

    "OK, sir. Have a nice night. Here's a business card from ServePro, they can help you clean up this mess."

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4410643]That actually makes a lot of sense.



    Interesting. I would have at least figured that there would have to be some evidence that you were, in fact, defending yourself (eyewitnesses, physical evidence, etc.) and in the absence of such evidence that the case would proceed forward like any other state in the country that doesn't have this...interesting...law.

    I mean..what's to prevent anyone from committing premeditated murder and then just telling the cops when they showed up that you were simply defending yourself.

    This guy did it to an 11 year old and didn't even get cuffed. What's to stop a husband from killing his spouse and telling the cops, "Hey man...she came after me with that knife that's right there on the ground next to her body (which I planted right before I called 911)"....

    "OK, sir. Have a nice night. Here's a business card from ServePro, they can help you clean up this mess."[/QUOTE]

    Not that it changes much, but can you stop calling him an 11 year old? Martin was 17. Makes you sound like you haven't been following this story at all.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4410818]Makes you sound like you haven't been following this story at all.[/QUOTE]

    I haven't.

    This Brett Favre signing has me all flustered....

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4410818]Not that it changes much, but can you stop calling him an 11 year old? Martin was 17. Makes you sound like you haven't been following this story at all.[/QUOTE]

    Plumber skewing facts?

    Say it isn't so.....

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE][url]http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706789/miami-judge-stabbing-in-the-back.html[/url]

    As critics assail Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law in the wake of the killing of an unarmed Miami Gardens teen in Sanford, a Miami-Dade judge on Wednesday cited the law in tossing out the case of a man who chased down a suspected burglar and stabbed him to death.

    Greyston Garcia was charged with second-degree murder in the slaying of Pedro Roteta, 26, whom he chased for more than a block before stabbing the man.

    The case illustrates the difficulty police and prosecutors statewide have experienced since the 2005 law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat in the face of danger, putting the burden on a judge, not a jury, to decide whether the accused is immune from prosecution.

    In Sanford, police have cited the Stand Your Ground law in their decision not to arrest a neighborhood watch volunteer in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, 17. A Seminole County grand jury will decide on whether the man who shot Trayvon, George Zimmerman, 28, should face homicide charges.

    Miami police Sgt. Ervens Ford, who supervised the Garcia case, was floored when told Wednesday of the judge’s decision. Ford called the law and the decision by Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom a “travesty of justice.”

    “How can it be Stand Your Ground?” said Ford, a longtime homicide investigator who on his off-day on Monday plans to attend a rally in the Trayvon case in Sanford with his two teenage sons. “It’s on [surveillance] video! You can see him stabbing the victim . . .”

    Bloom granted Garcia, 25, immunity under the 2005 law after she decided that his testimony about self-defense was credible. The judge did not issue a written ruling, but is expected to do so in the next few days.

    The Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office is likely to appeal the judge’s ruling. Garcia’s defense attorney could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

    The 2005 law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat when attacked, leading critics to say the statute fosters vigilante justice and allows criminals to get away with murder on a claim of self-defense.

    The law also bestowed immunity from prosecution and civil suits on people who are deemed to have acted in self-defense. The Florida Supreme Court has said that the question of whether the immunity applies in each case should be decided by a judge, not a jury.

    “Self-defense should be decided by a jury,” Miami-Dade Chief Assistant State Attorney Kathleen Hoague, who trains prosecutors on the law, said after Wednesday’s ruling. “To us, that’s the flaw in the law.”

    The incident took place on Jan. 25, when Roteta and another youth were behind Garcia’s apartment at 201 SW 18th Ct. According to police, Roteta was stealing Garcia’s truck radio.

    Garcia, alerted by a roommate, grabbed a large knife and ran downstairs. He chased Roteta, then stabbed him in a confrontation that lasted less than a minute, according to court documents.

    The stabbing was caught on video. Roteta was carrying a bag filled with three stolen radios, but no weapon other than a pocketknife, which was unopened in his pocket and which police said he never brandished.

    After initially denying involvement in the man’s death, Garcia admitted to homicide detectives that he attacked Roteta even though “he actually never saw a weapon.”

    Garcia claimed Roteta made a move that he interpreted as a move to stab him — so he struck first.

    Prosecutors and police have argued since the Stand Your Ground law passed that it would give vigilantes free rein to strike first and ask questions later.

    In the Garcia case, prosecutors argued that the law did not apply because the truck was not “occupied” and the suspected burglar had run away.

    Once Roteta ran off, prosecutor Jennie Conklin wrote in a motion, Garcia “no longer needed to use deadly force to protect his home or unoccupied vehicle.”[/QUOTE]

    Wow.

    I'm gonna cancel the summer vacation to Disney World for me and my kids. :eek:

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4404363]Fair enough, but you did state "I'm not seeing real racism here as much as massive uncalled for overreaction and aggressiveness." That's outright denial, not temperance.[/QUOTE]...black on black crime...gansters shooting up neigborhoods...police getting little cooperation in some bad areas...misdirection of anger,thats denial...that being said, very sad case...

  15. #35
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    During the time since this tragedy, 42 white people were killed in cold blood by black people. About three times that number of black people were killed in cold blood by other black people.

    Most have not resulted in arrests.

    No Justice?

    No Peace?

    Zimmerman should fry, but the bigger issue should be looked at too.

    Instead of (like I heard on the liberal radio last night) talk like this:

    "All racism, even between black and brown, is caused by the white man. He is the greatest evil the world has ever known, and is the source for all racial hatred in this world".

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4411609]During the time since this tragedy, 42 white people were killed in cold blood by black people. About three times that number of black people were killed in cold blood by other black people. [/QUOTE]

    It's all good.

    All 42 murders happened Florida. It's legal to kill anyone there.

    [IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/florida1-500-600x460_01.jpg[/IMG]

  17. #37
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    And of course, Obama wouldn't miss the opportunity to use race and this poor kid's death for his own political use.

    This guy is a mental patient.

    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1[/url]

  18. #38
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    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st1PpkO-7c4[/url]

    I don't know, the beat is pretty catchy I have to admit.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4412853]And of course, Obama wouldn't miss the opportunity to use race and this poor kid's death for his own political use.

    This guy is a mental patient.

    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1[/url][/QUOTE]

    You don't think your hatred for the President is making a tad too sensitive and resentful?

    What he said seemed to be genuine to me. What did he state that was untruthful, he was relating to the victim's parents.
    He didn't pass judgement on killer or the police department.

    He can't ignore it while being in Florida and a lot of people are upset with what occurred. What I quoted below was from your link.
    [QUOTE]More than 1.3 million people have signed petition seeking justice in the case[/QUOTE]

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4412989]You don't think your hatred for the President is making a tad too sensitive and resentful?

    What he said seemed to be genuine to me. What did he state that was untruthful, he was relating to the victim's parents.
    He didn't pass judgement on killer or the police department.

    He can't ignore it while being in Florida and a lot of people are upset with what occurred. What I quoted below was from your link.[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, he never uses race to his advantage. :rolleyes:

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