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Thread: Obama's disbelief after staring into N. Korea

  1. #1
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    Obama's disbelief after staring into N. Korea

    So did Obama, as he looked on in horror at the ravages of communism, ever think to himself, maybe communism doesn't work?!?!?!

    [URL]http://ca.news.yahoo.com/obamas-disbelief-staring-n-korea-174551638.html[/URL]

    [QUOTE]
    [B]Obama's disbelief after staring into N. Korea[/B]

    [I]By Stephen Collinson | AFP – 4 hours ago[/I]

    [B]After squinting through binoculars into a nation frozen in time, US President Barack Obama reeled off a contempt-laden and startlingly frank indictment of North Korea.[/B]

    The Stalinist remnant of the Cold War was, in Obama's eyes, nothing but a nation which cannot make "anything of any use", "doesn't work", and even its vaunted weapons exports were hardly state of the art.

    "It is like you are in a time warp," Obama said Sunday, after he toured a rocky border post in the demilitarised buffer zone that has split the Korean peninsular for longer than he has been alive.

    "It is like you are looking across 50 years into a country that has missed 40 years or 50 years of progress," Obama marvelled later, after taking a helicopter back to teeming, prosperous Seoul, just 25 miles (40 kilometres) away.

    Obama, who is locked in his first showdown with the North's new leader Kim Jong-Un over a planned rocket launch, stood behind a bullet proof screen four inches thick and surveyed rocky hills and wooded slopes in North Korea.

    He gazed over a windswept no man's land between the two nations, split by a brutal Cold War conflict six decades ago, after his armoured SUV took a road through a minefield and tank traps.

    Then he turned to his left, and looked out across bare fields to a huge North Korean flag -- flying at half-mast to remember late leader Kim Jong-Il, who died in December leaving his youthful and untested son in charge.
    Behind the flag were simple low military buildings, and in the distance a town could just be picked out in the haze, but there was no sign of North Koreans who live hungry, isolated and cut off from the 21st Century.

    Wearing a brown leather jacket and beige slacks, Obama stood in an open bunker and chatted with senior US and South Korean officers, just as Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush did on trips during their presidencies.

    Earlier, he had told some of the 28,500 US troops stationed in South Korea they were performing honoured service at "freedom's frontier" [B]and brought news of annual college basketball playoffs from home. :rolleyes:[/B]

    The ramparts of Observation Point Ouellette, a UN-commanded post where he stood, is the closest point to the demarcation line in the 250-kilometre (160-mile) long and 4-km (1.6-m) wide Demilitarised Zone.

    Later, Obama shared his observations with reporters as he held a joint press conference with South Korea's President Lee Myung-Bak, on the eve of a major nuclear summit in Seoul.

    And he seemed unable to process the logic of three generations of leaders who had kept their people imprisoned, impoverished and in thrall to successive personality cults.

    "If a country can't feed its people effectively, if it can't make anything of any use to anybody, if it has no exports other than weapons and even those aren't ones that in any way would be considered state of the art.

    "If it can't deliver on any indicators of well-being... for its people... then you'd think you'd want to try something different," Obama said in a highly undiplomatic and unusually frank public appearance.

    [B]"There are certain things that just don't work and what they are doing doesn't work."[/B]


    [/QUOTE]

    Good thing there were no mirrors on the ship.

  2. #2
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    Insinuating that Obama's presidency is any shape or form similar to arguably the most oppressive regime in the world is kind of silly in my opinion.
    Last edited by Ruby2; 03-25-2012 at 09:35 PM.

  3. #3
    I wonder if he thinks any better of the US after looking into hell!

  4. #4
    man this is the dumbest argument ever.... trying to say that obama somehow is a communist. jeez, id expect this in the cracker south but from northeasterners? shameful

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4416927]man this is the dumbest argument ever.... trying to say that obama somehow is a communist. jeez, [B]id expect this in the cracker south but from northeasterners[/B]? shameful[/QUOTE]

    And you think this sounds any less ignorant?

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4416927]man this is the dumbest argument ever.... trying to say that obama somehow is a communist. jeez, id expect this in the cracker south but from northeasterners? shameful[/QUOTE]

    So it is crazy to wonder if someone who is known to associate with Communists and socialists in his past and whose actions and words lean toward socialism is a socialist?

    [QUOTE][B]Is President Obama Truly A Socialist?[/B]

    Pew Research finds that sixty percent of Americans respond negatively to “socialism.” It is clear why President [URL="http://www.forbes.com/profile/barack-obama/"]Barack Obama[/URL] must avoid that label. Words are important. Political candidates who control the language of political discourse win elections.


    Most of our elites would certainly not entertain the question: “Is Obama a socialist?” Only irresponsible fanatics carelessly throw around such epithets, they say. Polite circles ignore such goofiness.


    As someone who has professionally studied and written about comparative economics, capitalism, and socialism for almost fifty years, the reticence to probe the core beliefs of a political leader seems odd. [B]The question is perfectly legitimate in both an academic and political context as long as we define terms and place the discussion in proper context.[/B]


    By “socialist,” I do not mean a Lenin, Castro, or Mao, but whether Obama falls within the mainstream of contemporary socialism as represented, for example, by Germany’s Social Democrats, French Socialists, or Spain’s socialist-workers party?


    By this criterion, yes, Obama is a socialist.


    The socialist parties of Europe trace their origins to reform Marxism. After Marx’s death in 1883, Europe’s Marxists rejected the Bolsheviks’ call for socialist revolution and worked within the political system for Marxist goals. Marxists, such as Karl Leibknecht, August Bebel, Paul Lafargue, Leon Blum, and others, formed the socialist parties that we know today. Most emerged from the trade-union movement, and they retain close ties with organized labor today, as does Obama’s Democrat Party.


    Whereas, the eighteenth century liberalism of John Locke and Adam Smith gave us our constitution and limited government, Marxism provided the intellectual foundations of the European welfare state.
    The European socialists have their welfare state. Even their conservative opponents no longer question the “social state,” despite rising concern about its affordability. In the United States, we are fighting the battle of the welfare state, and we do not know what the outcome will be.


    The European welfare state takes one half of national output to provide state health care, pensions, extended unemployment benefits, income grants, and free higher education. Failed nationalizations taught European socialists to leave enterprise in private hands and coerce it through taxation and regulation to contribute to what the state deems the “social welfare.”


    The November 2011 Declaration of Principles of the Party of European Socialists (PES) summarizes the European socialist agenda. I condense its main points and compare them with Obama’s statements and legislative initiatives:


    PES: The welfare state and state-provided universal access to education and health care are society’s great achievements.


    Obama: Favors universal access to health care and associated benefits as a critical expansion of the welfare state.


    PES: A strong and just society must ensure that the wealth generated by all is shared fairly as determined by the state.


    Obama: Favors progressive taxes on the rich to redistribute income and wealth from winners to losers and to ensure that all pay their fair share. (As he has said: “When you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”)


    PES: Collective responsibility makes society stronger when people work together, and all people are enabled to live a dignified life, free of poverty and protected from social risks in life.


    Obama: Favors collective responsibility (as defined by the federal government) to protect all from social risks through food stamps, welfare programs, extended unemployment benefits, guaranteed health care, the bailing out of big companies, forcing renegotiation of mortgages, class action law suits, and other measures. (Instead of opportunity and incentive to succeed, no one is allowed to fail).


    PES: The state must insure that economic growth is environmentally “sustainable.”


    Obama: Favors carbon taxes, higher energy prices, restricted drilling and refining, and subsidies of green technology for the “common good,” even at the expenses of higher conventional growth and jobs.


    PES: If unfettered by state control, market forces, driven by and greed and shift power to the privileged few, deepen economic, geographic and social inequalities, and create economic crises.


    Obama: Shows a distrust of market forces and advocates selective regulation, subsidies, and taxation to persuade or coerce business to promote the general welfare as he defines it. Industries not part of his collective endeavor (oil and gas and coal) are penalized. Industries that serve his conception of “general welfare” (green technology) are to be promoted even if the market rejects them.


    PES: Ensuring long lasting prosperity, stability and above all, peace requires effective coordination in the international realm based on democracy, mutual respect, and human rights.


    Obama: Places reliance on international institutions, international consensus, and mutual respect in the conduct of foreign policy. (The United States must coordinate its foreign policy with international organizations and treat even rogue nations with respect in the hope that they will voluntarily improve their behavior).


    PES: A strong state must preserve the public good, guarantee the common interest, promote justice and solidarity and allow people to lead lives rich beyond material wealth, so that each individual’s fulfillment is also part of a collective endeavor.


    Obama: Advocates a strong state that offers the “positive right” of political and economic justice to its citizens. He complains that the U.S. Constitution is a “charter of negative liberties,” that dictates what government “can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.”


    If the Party of European Socialists were to rate Obama, he would get a near perfect score. The political views and programs that Obama is prepared to reveal to the public are consistent with those of European socialists. He is clearly a socialist in the European sense of the term.


    If the “socialist label” sticks, Obama faces an even more uphill 2012 campaign. In scripted moments – like Tuesday’s State of the Union Address — he must present his socialist campaign themes while avoiding the appearance of being a socialist.


    Obama must worry most about those slips in unscripted moments that, I believe, reveal a deep animosity towards private enterprise. He has given us a few fleeting glimpses, such as his complaint about the Constitution’s “negative rights and his off-the-cuff “spread the wealth around” remark. His most recent and significant slip was to tell Occupy [URL="http://www.forbes.com/wall-street/"]Wall Street[/URL] protesters: “You are the reason I ran for office.”


    Obama’s defenders will counter that Republicans also accept Social Security and a progressive income tax and that his slips are taken out of context. [B]But these criticisms fail to address the remarkable coincidence of Obama’s views with those of European socialists. By comparing Obama not to Lenin or Mao but to European socialism, we have placed the question “Is Obama a socialist?” in a fair and appropriate context.[/B]


    Our political discourse is conducted largely in the language of the left, to the disadvantage of conservatives. After all, [B]who can oppose “fairness, justice, dignified life, or sustainable growth?” Only sophisticated observers understand that these are code words for something else. They are all excuses for the state to take from one group to give to another or to coerce people or businesses to do something they do not want to do otherwise. The more powerful the state, the greater the risk of state coercion under the guise of noble aims. Enhancing the size, scope, and power of the state vis-à-vis the private sector may be Obama’s ultimate objective.[/B]


    This country was founded on the principle that individuals should not be subject to the control of a powerful state. That founding idea has never before been in greater peril.
    [IMG]http://img.zemanta.com/pixy.gif?x-id=18131eed-a9ed-4a6f-9e56-06f6fa8d7055[/IMG]


    [B] This article is available online at:
    [URL]http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/01/22/is-president-obama-truly-a-socialist/[/URL][/B]

    [/QUOTE]

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4416927]man this is the dumbest argument ever.... trying to say that obama somehow is a communist. jeez, id expect this in the cracker south but from northeasterners? shameful[/QUOTE]

    Your use of a racist epithet is unacceptable Dick.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4416988]Your use of a racist epithet is unacceptable Dick.[/QUOTE]

    Well....since the word is derived from the sound that a whip makes when it's being used to motivate an....uh...employee(?), is it still a epithet? ;)

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4416993]Well....since the word is derived from the sound that a whip makes when it's being used to motivate an....uh...employee(?), is it still a epithet? ;)[/QUOTE]

    Yes, it's a term used to insult and demean a group of people based only and exclusively on the color of their skin. It's outright racism, and if we're all playing by the same rules, it should be treated no differently than anny other racist term.

    You know how many so-called "crackers" alive today had anything whatsoever to do with slavery, or even a minor tie such as historical personal relation involved in slavery.......take a wild guess at that percentage my friend. Hint, it's infinitesimal.

    As I say on all these issues, we should work towards equallity, real equallity. That means not being tolerant of one kind of racism because a different kind of racism used to exist.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4417022]Yes, it's a term used to insult and demean a group of people based only and exclusively on the color of their skin. It's outright racism, and if we're all playing by the same rules, it should be treated no differently than anny other racist term.

    You know how many so-called "crackers" alive today had anything whatsoever to do with slavery, or even a minor tie such as historical personal relation involved in slavery.......take a wild guess at that percentage my friend. Hint, it's infinitesimal.

    As I say on all these issues, we should work towards equallity, real equallity. That means not being tolerant of one kind of racism because a different kind of racism used to exist.[/QUOTE]

    Sounds cool.

    I'm still gonna love that Stone Temple Pilots song...doesn't matter how PC the world gets...:D

  11. #11
    [IMG]http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/Product/479154b.jpg[/IMG]

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Trades;4416583][COLOR="Red"]So did Obama, as he looked on in horror at the ravages of communism, ever think to himself, maybe communism doesn't work?!?!?![/COLOR]

    [URL]http://ca.news.yahoo.com/obamas-disbelief-staring-n-korea-174551638.html[/URL]


    Good thing there were no mirrors on the ship.[/QUOTE]

    I guarantee not. This is what a [COLOR="Red"]MARXIST[/COLOR] in Obama's ilk once said to me. and I quote, " Communism hasn't worked previously because it has never been implemented in a fully industrialized,secure nation like the U.S. once it it is you'll see how successful it can be" I kid you not. Remember this quote by the "constitutional scholar" ( that cracks me up, btw)
    " America is the greatest nation in the world and with your help we're going to change it"

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4416927]man this is the dumbest argument ever.... trying to say that obama somehow is a communist. jeez, id expect this in the cracker south but from northeasterners? shameful[/QUOTE]

    Do you want this "cracker" to name ALL his mentors? his family members? his associates? his appointee's who are know or have admitted being commies? You're known be the people you surround yourself.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=acepepe;4417097]Do you want this "cracker" to name ALL his mentors? his family members? his associates? his appointee's who are know or have admitted being commies? You're known be the people you surround yourself.[/QUOTE]

    Come on, get with the program.

    Guilt by association only pertains to the right.....

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Ruby2;4416588]Insinuating that Obama's presidency is any shape or form similar to arguably the most oppressive regime in the world is [B]outright moronic[/B].[/QUOTE]
    Fixed because you were being way too nice.

    There is no correlation between Obama's presidency and the Kim's rule, anyone who tries to insinuate otherwise deserves to be called a moron.
    Last edited by nyctomjetsfan; 03-26-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  16. #16
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    Any discussion of Far East Communism needs to include China.

    So what does Obama say when he stares into China?
    Is China actually Communist at this point?
    Why did the Soviet gov't fail but the China gov't is still around? And why the differences between China and North Korea.



    During the recent transfer of power in N. Korea to this new 3rd generation Leader, many folks were saying that N. Korea wasn't even practicing communism anymore but was more of an absolute monarchy or dictatorship.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4417137]Come on, get with the program.

    Guilt by association only pertains to the right.....[/QUOTE]

    You never bring up associations of "the right"....do what does it matter?

    If it's not important, it's not important, right? ;) :P
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 03-26-2012 at 11:36 AM.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4417185]You never bring up associations of "the right"....do what does it matter?

    If it's not important, it's not important, right? ;) :P[/QUOTE]

    It's deeper than associations, it's appointments to high level and sensitive positions to KNOWN communists. This cannot be denied, the proof is there. If you don't favor those beliefs why would you appoint communists? Why would you favor communist mentors? associate with communist terrorists?

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=acepepe;4417199]It's deeper than associations, it's appointments to high level and sensitive positions to KNOWN communists. This cannot be denied, the proof is there. If you don't favor those beliefs why would you appoint communists? Why would you favor communist mentors? associate with communist terrorists?[/QUOTE]

    Yes.

    And 9/11 was also an inside job.

  20. #20
    Where does Communism fall within the Muslim community?


    [QUOTE=acepepe;4417199]It's deeper than associations, it's appointments to high level and sensitive positions to KNOWN communists. This cannot be denied, the proof is there. If you don't favor those beliefs why would you appoint communists? Why would you favor communist mentors? associate with communist terrorists?[/QUOTE]

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