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Thread: The wonderful church at work.

  1. #1

    The wonderful church at work.

    Looks like the church is going to have to open up the coffers again.



    [url]http://news.yahoo.com/forced-adoptions-for-unwed-mothers-around-the-globe.html[/url]



    Adopted or abducted?

    Veil of secrecy lifts slowly on decades of forced adoptions for unwed mothers around the globe.

    By Dan Rather | Yahoo! News

    Most women describe giving birth to a child as a life changing experience – in a word – “challenging”, “joyous”, “miraculous.” But generations of young, unwed women describe their experience of giving birth to a child as a nightmare – and decades later their suffering has yet to end.

    From Australia to Spain, Ireland to America, and as recent as 1987, young mothers say they were “coerced”, “manipulated”, and “duped” into handing over their babies for adoption. These women say sometimes their parents forged consent documents, but more often they say these forced adoptions were coordinated by the people their families trusted most...priests, nuns, social workers, nurses or doctors.

    Last month, a Dan Rather Reports producer and crew were in Canberra, Australia as Parliament released the findings of an 18-month-long investigation revealing illegal and unethical tactics used to convince young, unmarried mothers to surrender their babies to adoptive homes from the late 1940s to the 1980s. And we interviewed some of the victims -- adoptees and mothers separated at birth.

    “One of the happiest days of my life, most proudest achievements, is giving birth and holding my newborn child,” says Senator Rachel Siewert, who oversaw the Australian Senate Committee Report. “These women didn't have that experience. And I can't imagine it.”

    [B]Siewert added, “There was a lot of testimony from people that were associated with Catholic institutions. And Catholic Health Services here issued an apology and I understand they're gonna be putting in place some grievance procedures.” [/B]

    In some cases, mothers in Australia were [B]drugged and forced to sign papers[/B] relinquishing custody. In others, women were told their children had [B]died[/B]. Single mothers also did not have access to the financial support given to widows or abandoned wives, and many were told by doctors, nurses, and social workers that they were unfit to raise a child. Siewert says, “We heard practices that were either [B]illegal or unethical and downright cruel[/B].”

    “It wouldn't surprise me to hear the same thing happened elsewhere,” continues Siewert, “...the U.K., the U.S., Canada and Ireland. So you could, I think, expect that those countries also had these sorts of practices.”

    Two weeks ago, a prominent Canadian law firm announced that it would file a [B]class-action lawsuit against Quebec's Catholic Church[/B] accusing the Church of kidnapping, fraud and coercion to force unwed mothers to give up their children for adoption.

    Attorney Tony Merchant represents several hundred women who claim that when they were in maternity homes in the 1950s and 1960s, [B]social workers, nurses, doctors, and even men and women in the employ of the Catholic Church cooperated with government officials to force or, even coerce, young women to sign away their rights to keep their child never knowing they even had a choice. [/B]

    Merchant was quoted in the Montreal Gazette as saying, "The beliefs the Catholic Church (in Quebec) had about premarital sex and the judgmental approach the church had, made it particularly aggressive in pressuring women into putting their children up for adoption."

    In Spain, an 80-year-old nun, Sister Maria Gómez, became the first person accused of baby snatching in a scandal over the trafficking of 1,500 newborns in Spanish hospitals over four decades until the 1980s. The babies were either stolen, sold or given away by adoption.

    Since October, Dan Rather Reports has contacted nearly 100 alleged victims, social workers, researchers, lawyers and authors from around the world to shine a bright light on the issue of forced adoptions. The two most respected books on the subject of “forced adoptions,” Ann Fessler's The Girls Who Went Away and Rickie Solinger's Beggars and Choosers indicate that the tactics used to procure adoptable babies in Australia, Ireland, Canada and Spain were also implemented in the United States.

    We have interviewed numerous women in the U.S. who told us that they were sent to maternity homes, denied contact with their families and friends, forced to endure labor with purposely painful procedures and return home without their babies. Single, American mothers were also denied financial support and told that their children would be better off without them.

    [B]In some cases, they too were told that their babies had died[/B]. Many signed away their rights while drugged and exhausted after childbirth. Others were threatened with substantial medical bills if they didn't surrender or were manipulated through humiliation. According to Fessler, these seemingly unethical practices were used against as many as [B]1.5 million[/B] mothers in the United States.

    When we asked these women who say they were victims of “forced adoption” to use one word to describe their experience giving birth…here’s what they told us…

    “Sad” states Angie from Colorado, who says at age 19 her pregnancy was kept an absolute secret and that she disappeared before her infant daughter was put up for adoption against her will in 1972. “Sad” also states Chris from Massachusetts, who gave up her firstborn through Catholic Charities in 1969.

    “Trauma” states Valerie from Toronto who says in 1970 a Salvation Army matron at the Bethany Home for unwed mothers dropped her off at Grace Hospital in Toronto to labor alone. [B]While crying out in pain during labor, she says a nurse called her a “slut.” [/B]

    “Barbaric” states Christine, a PhD. candidate at the University of Western Sydney in Australia, who heads the Apology Alliance, made up of individuals and groups from all around Australia who seek an apology for the practices and policies that led to forced adoptions in her country.

    “Devastating” states Shawn who was a sophomore in college in 1974 when at age 19 she gave birth to a son she has yet to see in person or touch. During the delivery, she says her doctor forcibly grabbed her foot and said, [B]“I hope this has taught you not to get in trouble again.”[/B]

    “Horrifying” states Lily who was 17 in 1967 when she says she was “held in slavery for nearly 10 months” in a home for unwed mothers before she says she was forced to give her son up for adoption.

    “Traumatic” states Fran from Pennsylvania, who says in 1959 at age 20 she did not give informed consent before her son was placed for adoption. “It was not a choice…it was social policy.”

    “Tragic” states Susan, who at age 21 in 1967 says she had to fight just to see her daughter a day after giving birth to her at Miserecordia Hospital in Milwaukee. A supervisor tried to talk her out of it, but she persisted. A few days later, she regrettably agreed to give her daughter up for adoption.

    "Torture" states Hanne from British Columbia, Canada, who says at age 16, her baby girl was “stolen...abducted on the delivery table.” “Torture” also states Carlynne from Florida, who says at age 20, she was not able to see, touch or was told the sex of her baby before being forced to put it up for adoption.

    “Shattering” states Karen who was living in Virginia in 1966, when at age 18, she says she was “told by Catholic Charities to sign the paper” and give her daughter up for adoption. “I was never told I could visit her in foster care. I didn’t even know she was in foster care. I wasn’t told that I had six months to get her!! To change my mind.. as if I had even made up my own mind. I didn’t...they did.”

    “Horrific” states Laura from Virginia, who says at age 16 she was “forced” to give her son up for adoption in 1972. “I was totally coerced from day one.”

    “Decimated” states Elizabeth from Melbourne, Australia, who says in 1963 at age 18 she was rendered unconscious before her daughter was taken from her at birth, even though she was married to the father of her baby 11 months before the adoption was finalized. “Decimated” also states Leslie, who at age 17 was going into labor at a maternity home in Alabama when “Sister Martha, the director of the maternity home drove me to the hospital, pulled into the driveway and let me out. I went in and admitted myself. I labored that night (alone) in one of the hallways” because she says she was told the maternity ward was only for married women. Ironically, the son she says was taken from her was born on Mother’s Day 1966.

    Carol, was a college freshman in 1966, when she says a social worker in Pittsburgh betrayed her with promises to help her keep newborn son. After the birth, drugged and disoriented, Carol says she unknowingly signed relinquishment papers presented by that social worker as hospital release forms. She needed two words to answer our question, “soul rape.”

  2. #2
    Mr. Anti Catholic is at it again.
    [B]Every [/B]religion has its problems and offenses.
    You must have a miserable existance harping on the Catholic Church.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4418835]Mr. Anti Catholic is at it again.
    [B]Every [/B]religion has its problems and offenses.
    You must have a miserable existance harping on the Catholic Church.[/QUOTE]

    He's only half anti-catholic.



    :dunno:


    -

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4418835][B]Every [/B]religion has its problems and offenses. [/QUOTE]

    That must really agitate God. :P

  5. #5
    Maybe they all should have made a different "choice".

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4418885]Maybe they all should have made a different "choice".[/QUOTE]

    Like? :confused:

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4418835]Mr. Anti Catholic is at it again.
    [B]Every [/B]religion has its problems and offenses.
    You must have a miserable existance harping on the Catholic Church.[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry, but not every religion has organized, institutional, global and despicable practices. (hell, not every religion is even sufficiently organized, institutional, or global [B]to[/B] have such practices). And where those practices are unearthed - especially where they are unearthed by outside investigation rather than internal recognition and attempts to make amends - they deserve condemnation. And that's true regardless of what religion it is, and even if it were every religion.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4418791]Looks like the church is going to have to open up the coffers again.
    [/QUOTE]

    [I]self deleted. not worth getting into[/I]
    Last edited by shakin318; 03-27-2012 at 12:17 PM.

  9. #9
    WE'RE HERE! WE'RE FAP! WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE THIS CRAP!!!

    :rotfl:

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4418938]I'm sorry, but not every religion has organized, institutional, global and despicable practices. (hell, not every religion is even sufficiently organized, institutional, or global [B]to[/B] have such practices). And where those practices are unearthed - especially where they are unearthed by outside investigation rather than internal recognition and attempts to make amends - they deserve condemnation. And that's true regardless of what religion it is, and even if it were every religion.[/QUOTE]

    Although condemnation may be deserved, when a long pattern of one specific religion (and seemingly no others) are repetitively condemned by one specific person or group of people, it does provide some insight on that person as well.

    I'm sure any one of us could do our own investigations of any number of groups and find past bad behaviors that are no longer in practice if we were [I]motivated[/I] enough to do so. And the lazy of us could just let someone else do the work and then be sure to post it whereever we could.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4419131]Although condemnation may be deserved, when a long pattern of one specific religion (and seemingly no others) are repetitively condemned by one specific person or group of people, it does provide some insight on that person as well.

    I'm sure any one of us could do our own investigations of any number of groups and find past bad behaviors that are no longer in practice if we were [I]motivated[/I] enough to do so. And the lazy of us could just let someone else do the work and then be sure to post it whereever we could.[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps we Christians can commit terrorism to carve out special rights from the left.:rolleyes:

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4419140]Perhaps we Christians can commit terrorism to carve out special rights from the left.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    Does the Tebow trade count? Or is that just terrible-ism?

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4419140]Perhaps we Christians can commit terrorism to carve out special rights from the left.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    It must of been very hard for you when you served your country in the fight against terrorism.

  14. #14
    Every organization is going to attract homosexual predators, criminals and other forms of leftist scum, whether it's the Catholic Church, police departments or public schools. Unfortunately, the Church didn't do enough to weed these perverts out, and or tried to cover it up. Man is fallible, but the institution itelf is not. I think the Church is doing it's best to correct this problem and create an infrastructure and culture within it's ranks that doesn't allow for this to happen any more.

    What I find amusing in all of this is, the Boy Scouts of America, who have done an excellent job of keeping their ranks free from homosexual predators, criminals and other forms of leftist scum has been under attack by the same idiots bashing the Church for not doing enough, and demanding that the element that infested the Church be forcefully entered into the rank and file of the Boy Scouts.

    But thats moonbattery for ya. :coocoo:

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4419140]Perhaps we Christians can commit terrorism .:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    That would definitely endear you to the left.....

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4419131]Although condemnation may be deserved, when a long pattern of one specific religion (and seemingly no others) are repetitively condemned by one specific person or group of people, it does provide some insight on that person as well.[/QUOTE]

    These same people (moonbats) want to force the same element that infested the Church into the Boy Scouts of America.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Frequent Flyer;4419160]Every organization is going to attract homosexual predators, criminals and other forms of leftist scum, whether it's the Catholic Church, police departments or public schools. [B]Unfortunately, the Church didn't do enough to weed these perverts out, and or tried to cover it up.[/B] Man is fallible, but the institution itelf is not. I think the Church is doing it's best to correct this problem and create an infrastructure and culture within it's ranks that doesn't allow for this to happen any more.

    What I find amusing in all of this is, the Boy Scouts of America, [B]who have done an excellent job of keeping their ranks free from homosexual predators, [/B]criminals and other forms of leftist scum has been under attack by the same idiots bashing the Church for not doing enough, and demanding that the element that infested the Church be forcefully entered into the rank and file of the Boy Scouts.

    But thats moonbattery for ya. :coocoo:[/QUOTE]

    Three things.

    First, I agree that the church should not be bashed for having had pedophile priests (though I think some reflection on celibacy's contribution is warranted, the fact is if celibacy was the primary issue priests could always just take up with adults, too), and that the real problem there was the lack of response and the cover-up.

    Second, this particular scandal isn't quite the same - it is not people with criminal tendencies appearing in a group, but what appears to have actually been institutional policy (it would be odd for the same behavior to have been repeated across continents and years if it was purely coincidental or "a few bad actors").

    Third, the conflation of "homosexual" with "homosexual predator" in your penultimate paragraph is abhorrent.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4419184]Third, the conflation of "homosexual" with "homosexual predator" in your penultimate paragraph is abhorrent.[/QUOTE]

    Active homosexuals in the upper ranks of Church authority were the primary offenders in moving the pedophile and homosexual predators (statutory rape) from diocese to diocese rather than take proper action. They all had dirt on each other and thats why the problem festered, grew, got worse and eventually exploded. And most, if not all, were progressives, not conservatives.

    If you find the truth abhorrent, then I can't help you.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4419184]Three things.

    First, I agree that the church should not be bashed for having had pedophile priests (though I think some reflection on celibacy's contribution is warranted, the fact is if celibacy was the primary issue priests could always just take up with adults, too), and that the real problem there was the lack of response and the cover-up.[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps celibacy is not only a cause, but it also attracts certain people to the priesthood? People who maybe recognize their own sick sexual desires and seek to repress them through a lifestyle dedicated to that? And then some of them ultimately fail...

    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4419184]Second, this particular scandal isn't quite the same - it is not people with criminal tendencies appearing in a group, but what appears to have actually been institutional policy (it would be odd for the same behavior to have been repeated across continents and years if it was purely coincidental or "a few bad actors").[/QUOTE]

    An institutional policy in which the lives of these children and their fates are determined by anyone but themselves. Horrifying to say the least. But somehow familiar.

    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4419184]Third, the conflation of "homosexual" with "homosexual predator" in your penultimate paragraph is abhorrent.[/QUOTE]

    +1

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4418938]I'm sorry, but not every religion has organized, institutional, global and despicable practices. (hell, not every religion is even sufficiently organized, institutional, or global [B]to[/B] have such practices). And where those practices are unearthed - especially where they are unearthed by outside investigation rather than internal recognition and attempts to make amends - they deserve condemnation. And that's true regardless of what religion it is, and even if it were every religion.[/QUOTE]


    I know you are a religious person and I know you are a lawyer. We have some theological differences but that is to be expected among those of different faiths.
    That said, I can think of no religion that I aware of - Catholic, Jewish, Moslem, most Protestant religions that do not have behavioral problems.
    The fact that the Catholic Church is centralized and Judaism is not as an example does not mean there are not major culprits among Jewish clergy. When I lived in NJ they were rampant. I am NOT singling out Judaism because you are a Jew but because you are certainly aware of problems in your own area of knowledge. Can't overly comment on the Hindu religion, or Buddism or Shinto.
    I have previously stated here that I went to Catholic schools for a while and participated in Church activities extensively min my youth. I never had another problems and did not know of anyone who did. There are bad guys in every walk of life. And in every religion. But when you have the largest religion it creates an intensifed look by especially the media which despises the Catholic Church. Even Catholics in the media hate the Church - O'Reilly and Hannity an exception.

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