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Thread: Must Read Article about Tebow/Jets from Greg Cosell

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4421066]Yes Sanchez can clearly win in this league. And so can Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Neil O' Donnell, Stan Humpries, Rich Gannon, Tony Eason.

    All of the above have taken teams further then Sanchez. Some of them have won super bowls, others have taken them to the big game. My point; winning does not automatically make you a [B]franchise [/B]QB. Second point; you don't need a franchise QB to win.[/QUOTE]

    Sanchez played 1 year in college, he has played 3 years with the disfunctional Jets and has not had a losing season yet, Don't you think he deserves a little more time. What if he had the same 2 WR's to throw to back to back years, or maybe a good Offensive Cordinator. I guess he is washed up at 25, lets look at all the other Jet QB's who have made Back to Back championship games in there first 2 years in the league ? For that matter has it even been done before ?

  2. #22
    [QUOTE=mike309;4421082]Sanchez played 1 year in college, he has played 3 years with the disfunctional Jets and has not had a losing season yet, Don't you think he deserves a little more time. What if he had the same 2 WR's to throw to back to back years, or maybe a good Offensive Cordinator. I guess he is washed up at 25, lets look at all the other Jet QB's who have made Back to Back championship games in there first 2 years in the league ? For that matter has it even been done before ?[/QUOTE]

    Oh, I absolutely think he should get another season as the full time starter. That is one of the reasons why I do not like the Tebow trade. As I said in a prior post I am torn as it relates to Sanchez.

    He has done enough to deserve another season as the starter. But he has not done enough to prove that he is a franchise, difference-making QB.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4421066]Yes Sanchez can clearly win in this league. And so can Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Neil O' Donnell, Stan Humpries, Rich Gannon, Tony Eason.

    All of the above have taken teams further then Sanchez. Some of them have won super bowls, others have taken them to the big game. My point; winning does not automatically make you a [B]franchise [/B]QB. Second point; you don't need a franchise QB to win.[/QUOTE] This is a VERY important point that is VERY well articulated by IJF. It should be in someone's signature or on a sticky some where. Jan fans would be much happier if they understood this simple point. In fact all fans would be.

  4. #24
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4421033]
    Considering where he was drafted and the amount of money given to him, he is a disappointment to this point.[/QUOTE]

    I think your overall analysis of Sanchez is a fair one. I don't think he's played at the level of other top QB selected in the last few years like Newton, Stafford or Matt Ryan.

    I think he's more in the second tier of guys who have flashed talent but been inconsistent: Bradford, Flacco, Freeman.

  5. #25
    [QUOTE=mike309;4421082]Sanchez played 1 year in college, he has played 3 years with the disfunctional Jets and has not had a losing season yet, Don't you think he deserves a little more time. What if he had the same 2 WR's to throw to back to back years, or maybe a good Offensive Cordinator. I guess he is washed up at 25, lets look at all the other Jet QB's who have made Back to Back championship games in there first 2 years in the league ? For that matter has it even been done before ?[/QUOTE]


    I completely agree. Ironic thing is that many of the same logical arguments apply to Tebow as well. He's had 1 year of sitting on the pine and went through a coaching change mid season, then another change when Fox was brought in, then this past year under the tutelage of the great Mike McCoy, who was basically a first year play caller trying to run an offense that he had very little understanding of.

    With that out of the way, I'd love to see what both Sanchez and Tebow can do under an OC who, from what I have gathered, actually knows what he is doing.

    Sanchez will greatly benefit from a stronger run game as LBs won't be clogging up the defensive backfield as much, since they'll be trying to stop the run.

  6. #26
    [QUOTE=Astoria;4421014]Agreed. And he did it all with an ankle weight named Brian holding him back. And now people are projecting Bri Bri's failures unto him. NO QB HAS EVER PLAYED WELL UNDER SCHITHEAD/every QB always IMPROVES when he leaves. I don't know why the media can't grasp that fact.

    Shame that Sanchez will be on another team before he fully develops, because it's not happening here. He's going to be very good.[/QUOTE]
    True bro. This article is poorly researched and speculative. F Shoddy and his ball and chain offense

  7. #27
    I have no problem with the Jets trade for Tebow. Tebow is a winner pure and simple! He has won everywhere he's played, University of Florida - 2 Titles, and took over a 1-4 Bronco team and helped get them to the playoffs.

    I honestly believe there are some athletes that are winners and there some who aren't, even though they may put up better numbers.

    Examples:

    Derek Jeter > Alex Rodriguez
    Reggie Jackson> Dave Winfield

    In both those cases, Rodriguez and Winfield may put up better numbers or look great in uniform, but they aren't the winners Jeter and Jackson are.

    Tebow has something that may not be measured in stats, but he is a winner, a leader, and I'm glad he is a Jet.
    Last edited by JetsFanatic; 03-29-2012 at 06:35 AM.

  8. #28
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4421033]I find myself split on Mark Sanchez;

    On one hand I give him a lot of credit for helping to take the Jets to two straight afc title games despite being very young. He helped the Jets win four road playoff games and played well enough to win the steelers and colts championship games. He also overcame playing for a defensive minded head coach, a poor offensive coordinator and a waste of space QB coach.

    On the other side, [B]Sanchez has regressed [/B]and he has to shoulder some of the blame. He has been widely inconsistent throughout his career. He is not an accurate passer and runs hot and cold. Also, he continues to make mental mistakes that rookies and second year players make. Mistakes like bird-dogging his intended receiver and not reading coverages correctly.

    Add it all up and you have a player who is more like a bus driver then a race car driver. He can be a part of the reason why you are successful but he may never be a franchise QB in the way that a Brees, Manning (either one), Brady, Rodgers etc plays. Considering where he was drafted and the amount of money given to him, he is a disappointment to this point.[/QUOTE]

    IJF, I respectfully disagree with the bolded part. Numerically, Sanchez did not regress. The perception that he regressed is due to Sanchez looking less confident on the field last year than he did as a rookie, when he came out for the first four games and just ripped it.

    I may prove to be wrong, but I believe we will see a renaissance of Sanchez this year. Shotty's scheme was causing everybody problems (there have been reports that even the OL was affected).

  9. #29
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    What I am finding confusing is that Cosell doesn't mention the Wildcat. While its true that Tebow ran a read option/spread offense last year, I'm not sure that that will be the crux of his snaps in the coming year. I'm sure it will be somewhat included in the playbook, but Tebow was brought here to handle the Wildcat. That's what Ryan has run over the past 3 years and ditto for Sparano in Miami.

    The read option was tailored for Tebow in Denver. They had him waiting in the wings and needed to create an offense around him. Here, Tebow was brought in precisely because he can be effective in the Offense that the Jets were installing - namely the Wildcat section of Sparano's palybook.

    As the season goes along, depending on the success of the various packages and the comfort level of the entire team, I'm sure there will be different and more creative packages developed (to account for the rest of the league studying film). My guess is that there will be elements of what Tebow did last year included - but to focus an article on whether the Tebow move will be successful based on the read option is just plain silly - whether you like the move or hate it.

  10. #30
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    BTW- you guys can clear something up for me. Have you read anywhere, that Tebow will be the one taking snaps in the "regular" Jet offense as the #2. Or will he just be running his "special" offense. Does the "regular" Jet offense just disappear if Sanchez gets hurt?

  11. #31
    [QUOTE=Maury77;4421231]IJF, I respectfully disagree with the bolded part. Numerically, Sanchez did not regress. The perception that he regressed is due to Sanchez looking less confident on the field last year than he did as a rookie, when he came out for the first four games and just ripped it.

    I may prove to be wrong, but I believe we will see a renaissance of Sanchez this year. Shotty's scheme was causing everybody problems (there have been reports that even the OL was affected).[/QUOTE]

    I agree, I did not see a regression, the team around him was awful, the line play, the merry go round of Wide outs, the play calling, with all this they went into the last week of the season with a chance to make the playoffs, no Jet team has ever had 3 winning seasons in a row.

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4420971]For those who are not familiar; there are few football analysts who are better at what they do then Greg Cosell from NFL Films. Here is his educated take on Tebow and his new team.

    [B][SIZE="4"]Cosell Talks: Tebow, Sanchez, & New York, New York[/SIZE][/B]
    by Greg Cosell

    Upon reflection, I believe Tim Tebow was traded to the right team. This is a football opinion, not one based on his marketing or cultural icon value. In many ways, Rex Ryan and the New York Jets are contrarians. Their profile runs counter to the accepted notion that the NFL is a passing league driven by the play of the quarterback.

    Their track record supports this point. In 2009, Mark Sanchez’s first season, the Jets were one half away from going to the Super Bowl. Sanchez was not very good as a rookie, but the Jets led the league in rushing and total defense. In fact, to take it one step further, they ran the ball more than any team in the NFL, and Sanchez threw the fewest passes of any 16-game starter, by a significant margin.


    That season, also Ryan’s first as Jets head coach, exemplified his world view of championship NFL football: run the ball with power and efficiency, dominate with a turnover-based defense, use the quarterback as a complement — more role player than foundation. While the running game and defensive statistics were not quite as good in 2010, and Sanchez incrementally improved, the template remained the same, and the Jets again advanced to the AFC Championship Game.

    Last season, the core methodology took a precipitous fall. Gang Green ranked 22nd in rushing, and 20th in points allowed. The quarterback could no longer be a complementary player. He had to be the focal point of the offense, and by extension, the team. [B][I][U][SIZE="6"]Sanchez’s limitations as a passer [/SIZE][/U][/I][/B]prevented him from filling that role effectively, and the Jets season fragmented.

    The overriding point is this: The Jets’ profile has not changed. Their ability to execute it has. Enter Tebow.

    Let’s talk football, not vague and ultimately meaningless concepts like “Tebow is a winner.” At this point, Tebow is not a competent passer by NFL standards. His best attribute is his ability to run the read option. That helps an offense in two ways: It adds production to the running game, essential to the Jets’ philosophy, and it creates more favorable matchups in the passing game because of the defensive imperatives that result from the read-option element.

    Tebow’s problem, exposed over the last month of the season (the playoff win over the Pittsburgh Steelers was the only exception), was an inability to make the necessary throws to exploit those matchups. In the NFL, eventually your quarterback has to make throws, and they have to come from the pocket.

    Here’s the caveat. If the Jets can re-establish their profile with a tempo-setting, time-consuming running game, which Tebow theoretically can help, and a physically dominant turnover-based defense, then you minimize the number of throws that Tebow has to make. The defense is the critical piece to this puzzle. If they play the way they did in 2009, then you can limit Tebow’s throws and better camouflage his weakness. That’s the bottom line.

    I am presenting this as if the read option will continue to be successful as a staple of an NFL offense. That’s not a given. As the 2011 season progressed, the Broncos opponents defended it better tactically. They had seen many more snaps of it. The corollary was that Tebow did not take advantage of the one-on-one matchups in the passing game. He did not throw the ball well. Even in some of the games the Broncos won, like Chicago, the offense was completely shut down for the large majority of the game. Overall, when all of Tebow’s plays are charted — and that’s what teams do once the season ends — his grade is not very high. The evaluation is based on his individual play, elements Tebow could control, not the ability of Matt Prater to make low-percentage field goals or Marion Barber making decisive mistakes late in the game.

    I also am presenting this as if Tebow will be the starter. We’ll see. But let’s talk about Tebow as a spot situational player based on down and distance, field position, whatever the case may be. For the sake of argument, let’s say the Jets want to utilize Tebow in the tight red zone (10 yards and in), or maybe the full red zone (20 yards and in). In addition, they want him on the field on third down, when they have six or fewer yards to get, because of his running ability. Maybe they want him on the field on every third down. Ryan indicated he could play 20 snaps in some games. He would not be a spot player at that point. If fact, you would have a quarterback platoon system, dependent upon the specifics of a given game and the situations presented.

    Can this work in the NFL? My guess is almost all football people would say no. Only the Jets know what they really intend to do. One thing I do believe: If the Jets hope to successfully return to the profile that led them to consecutive trips to the AFC title game, then they will envision Tebow as a legitimate starter, not a backup or spot player. Of course, [B]all this will be moot if Tebow does not significantly improve as a passer. Competitiveness does not make an NFL quarterback.[/B]

    PUBLISHED: March 26, 2012

    [url]http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/03/26/cosell-talks-tebow-sanchez-new-york-new-york/[/url][/QUOTE]


    His limitations as a passer are Hunter and Mulligan.

  13. #33
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;4421333]BTW- you guys can clear something up for me. Have you read anywhere, that Tebow will be the one taking snaps in the "regular" Jet offense as the #2. Or will he just be running his "special" offense. Does the "regular" Jet offense just disappear if Sanchez gets hurt?[/QUOTE]

    I was wondering that too.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;4421333]BTW- you guys can clear something up for me. Have you read anywhere, that Tebow will be the one taking snaps in the "regular" Jet offense as the #2. Or will he just be running his "special" offense. Does the "regular" Jet offense just disappear if Sanchez gets hurt?[/QUOTE]

    My guess is that it will be a hybrid of sorts....you obviously have to play to your qb's strengths so they would have to rely on the unconventional packages a lot more - but if he were forced into action for the long term, im guessing the offensive packages would morph based on how it was working.

  15. #35
    [QUOTE=crasherino;4421488]My guess is that it will be a hybrid of sorts....you obviously have to play to your qb's strengths so they would have to rely on the unconventional packages a lot more - but if he were forced into action for the long term, im guessing the offensive packages would morph based on how it was working.[/QUOTE]

    Think it depends on what the unconventional packages are to some degree. If he's really just running the WC as it has been seen before, then it won't be varied enough to be a full time offense. If, as I suspect, it's the Spread Option, then that's would become the full time offense, especially if Tebow improves his passing during this offseason.

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=patsfanken;4421087]This is a VERY important point that is VERY well articulated by IJF. It should be in someone's signature or on a sticky some where. Jan fans would be much happier if they understood this simple point. In fact all fans would be.[/QUOTE]

    I did not realize that you could see into the future, I am not sure we know what he will be.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=crasherino;4421488]My guess is that it will be a hybrid of sorts....you obviously have to play to your qb's strengths so they would have to rely on the unconventional packages a lot more - but if he were forced into action for the long term, im guessing the offensive packages would morph based on how it was working.[/QUOTE] Well it could be as you say. It makes sense, but there's the fallacy of the this particular mix of talents.

    I have to believe that the Jets are going to spend MOST of their practice time installing the "regular" offense for Sanchez, then a more limited time to put in the "read option" (Its NOT a wildcat). The problem is that if Sanchez were ever injured, the Jets would be forced to expand on the read option during the season, which is NOT the best time to be installing an offense.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for Tebow to just practice Tebow's offense all season long and get good at it, and let the #3 guy take the back up snaps for Sanchez's offense in case of injury. Either way you can see how having this 2 headed monster can greatly complicate the coaching and learning process.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=lageman4ever;4421094]I think your overall analysis of Sanchez is a fair one. I don't think he's played at the level of other top QB selected in the last few years like Newton, Stafford or Matt Ryan.

    I think he's more in the second tier of guys who have flashed talent but been inconsistent: Bradford, Flacco, Freeman.[/QUOTE]


    My problem with this: What great level of play has Newton, Stafford or Ryan played at?

    Newton- a rookie, that threw up all kinds of numbers. How many games did they win? How many int's did he throw? He played well..... against a last place schedule. I'm not saying he won't be any good, but to say he's played at a higher level than Sanchez is just not fair.

    Stafford- has been off the field as much as on it. He was also the first player drafted in the same draft as Sanchez.... he should be better. Nobody is gonna confuse Megatron with Tone. He also played under the architect of "the greatest show on turf".... Sanchez had Schitty. I'm not saying he won't be great, but, aside from flashier personal numbers, he hasn't played at a higher or more consistent level than Sanchez.

    Ryan- makes me laugh. Has played great at home, crappy on the road.... for his whole career, thus far. He has also played like garbage when the big lights become brighter.... something Sanchez has not done, he raises his game. He was also given a big running back, HOF tight end, two 1st round picks at WR and an OC with a lot better resume than Schitty.

    CONSISTENT, these guys are not. Whether it be last place schedules, playing indoors/nice weather, better weapons or a competent OC.... all three have put up better personal numbers....... but Sanchez has WON more consistently. The game isn't played in fantasy leagues.... winning is still the best sign of consistency, in my humble opinion.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=patsfanken;4421522]Well it could be as you say. It makes sense, but there's the fallacy of the this particular mix of talents.

    I have to believe that the Jets are going to spend MOST of their practice time installing the "regular" offense for Sanchez, then a more limited time to put in the "read option" (Its NOT a wildcat). The problem is that if Sanchez were ever injured, the Jets would be forced to expand on the read option during the season, which is NOT the best time to be installing an offense.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for Tebow to just practice Tebow's offense all season long and get good at it, and let the #3 guy take the back up snaps for Sanchez's offense in case of injury. Either way you can see how having this 2 headed monster can greatly complicate the coaching and learning process.[/QUOTE]

    The Broncos managed to install the read option in the middle of the season without missing a beat. And that's without knowing what they had with Tebow.

    I'm sure the Jets will spend most of their time installing their conventional offense. They will also spend a small (but significant) amount of time installing the non-conventional offense - my guess is that its a combo of read option and Wildcat. Another guess is that there will some packages with Sanchez at QB and Tebow in the game as well. Sometimes he's a decoy, other times he's getting the ball in a somewhat creative way.

    What will the Jets do if Sanchez goes down for a long period of time? I don't know. Having Mcelroy take some snaps is an option, I guess. Considering the Jets were relying on Brunnell to pick up the slack in the event Sanchez went down, I am more comfortable with the possibilities the Jets have this year, irrespective of what offense is being run and by whom.

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=crasherino;4421561]

    They will also [B]spend a small (but significant) amount of time[/B] installing the non-conventional offense

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL :rolleyes:

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