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Thread: Coughlin speaks up on the Jets

  1. #121
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4421722]My plan wouldn't be that drastic at all:

    It would require a relatively simple paradigm shift I'm going to start my timeline at the beginning of free-agency:

    1) I'm getting a new QB coach and my offensive coordinator would like be Haley over Sparano. My new QB coach would be somebody who has a track record with developing young QBs who have been successful, like Tom Clements.

    2) I'm pursuing Winston, Barnes, or Bell to show my QB's I'm dedicated to protecting them.

    3) I'm claiming an open competition at training camp for starting QB and then I'm signing either Chad Henne, Kyle Orton, or Jason Campbell as competition to Sanchez. If Sanchez doesn't want to be extended knowing that he'd have to compete then I know I made a bad move in the 2008 off-season drafting him.

    4) Strengthen the WR and TE positions (probably draft or Cheap UFA's like Braylon).

    That's really it. Open up the offense, not close it down.

    If after the term of Sanchez's extension he is clearly not going to break that 62% completion rate threshhold, I'm going to look down the road at FA's and possible draft picks and make sure neither come from USC moving forward (OK, sorta joking.........not really).[/QUOTE]

    This would be too smart. What you don't get, and what Rex and Tanny clearly do, is that the above doesn't win in today's NFL ;)

    WILDCAT! GROUND N POUND! WELCOME TO THE NFL 2012

    passing be damned....

  2. #122
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4421475]I, uh, highlighted the part where the two-time Super Bowl winning coach tells you the reality of rotating QB's as if they are RB's and how it correlates to winning championships.[/QUOTE]

    ummmmmmmmmmmm their was no one out their like tebow at the time so of course he wasn't going to replace him.

  3. #123
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    I found this article very interesting the other day when I first read it. I think you can say that Coughlin knows a thing or two about developing a young QB. Eli faced much harsher criticism than anything Sanchez has after year 3 and after last year's 25 int season I think fans/media were ready to scrap him.

    Coughlin's choice of words is interesting - keep the ball in his hands. This is important for a variety of reasons, one of which is it takes something like 10,000 repetitions to ingrain muscle memory. The other is the breakup of the QB's rhythm, popping in and out of the field. Every QB needs some time to get in a groove and none more so than a young one. Taking a qB off the field every 5th play or whatever can't possibly be good for his development. Last season every time Schotty broke up Sanchez's momentum it was harshly criticized yet these same people are now clamoring to do this.

    Furthermore, Sanchez isn't the only young qB out there, so is Tebow. If anything he needs more consistent and repetitive play to get his rhythm. But everyone is clamoring to bring him in at 1st and goal after an 80 yd drive. What makes people think he can turn it on like that without the benefit of the previous 10 plays to get going? He's just going to pop into 1st and goal and immediately produce? This definitely would be counter to the playmaking he showed last season. It took him a long time to get going, he drove down the field with running and terrible passing and scored by the element of surprise.


    And either the Jets are real stupid and don't realize this, or they do - and fully intend to start him sooner or later. This 20 snaps per game is BS.

    And as an aside the 'element of surprise' strategy (as opposed to skillfull passing) only works for as long as it's a surprise. So the Jets are going to be relying on deception and trickery, rather than good football? Who wants that?
    Last edited by Vinny Testaverde's Niece; 03-29-2012 at 05:47 PM.

  4. #124
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    Tom Coughlin is an excellent coach.

    However, to answer TX's excellent and legitimate query, I would still rather have Rex as the coach of the team I root for

    As for the rest of these seven pages (actually I read the first few posts and skipped to the last page) I want to thank the OP for opening up a brand new thread so that the Joe Benigno 40+Years of Misery club Gang of Six and their Homecoming Queen could hijack it into another pile of diatribes against a backup quarterback and just about everything else on the team

    Here is my take

    Coughlin is the coach of the Giants, god bless him

    I would rather have Rex -- I hate the Giants and I could care less about them. I only care about the one team I love and I root for every single member of that team

    GO JETS

    ALL OF THEM

  5. #125
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    hey whatever. coughlin has to coach the giaints and rex has to coach the jets. i don't see where coughlin was trying to gloat or upstage the jets. the giaints won the sb and they are the champs. doesn't matter that if they lost to the jets coughlin would be on the street or that the nfc east teams imploded. the giaints and coughlin still won.

    and did i say they beat girlie boy and the bellichicken again?

  6. #126
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    [QUOTE=sameoldjets;4422026]hey whatever. coughlin has to coach the giaints and rex has to coach the jets. i don't see where coughlin was trying to gloat or upstage the jets. the giaints won the sb and they are the champs. doesn't matter that if they lost to the jets coughlin would be on the street or that the nfc east teams imploded. the giaints and coughlin still won.

    [/QUOTE]

    [I]Asked at the NFC coaches breakfast about all the attention the New York Jets have been getting with their trade for Tim Tebow and contract extension for Mark Sanchez — in other words, their budding quarterback controversy — Coughlin simply smiled and said:
    [/I]
    [I]“You know who won the Super Bowl even if we’re not on front page. New Yorkers know.”[/I]

    That's not gloating?

    That wasn't a direct answer to the question that was posed.

    It was gloating IMO.

  7. #127
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    [QUOTE=Vinny Testaverde's Niece;4421964]I found this article very interesting the other day when I first read it. I think you can say that Coughlin knows a thing or two about developing a young QB. Eli faced much harsher criticism than anything Sanchez has after year 3 and after last year's 25 int season I think fans/media were ready to scrap him.

    Coughlin's choice of words is interesting - keep the ball in his hands. This is important for a variety of reasons, one of which is it takes something like 10,000 repetitions to ingrain muscle memory. The other is the breakup of the QB's rhythm, popping in and out of the field. Every QB needs some time to get in a groove and none more so than a young one. Taking a qB off the field every 5th play or whatever can't possibly be good for his development. Last season every time Schotty broke up Sanchez's momentum it was harshly criticized yet these same people are now clamoring to do this.

    Furthermore, Sanchez isn't the only young qB out there, so is Tebow. If anything he needs more consistent and repetitive play to get his rhythm. But everyone is clamoring to bring him in at 1st and goal after an 80 yd drive. What makes people think he can turn it on like that without the benefit of the previous 10 plays to get going? He's just going to pop into 1st and goal and immediately produce? This definitely would be counter to the playmaking he showed last season. It took him a long time to get going, he drove down the field with running and terrible passing and scored by the element of surprise.


    And either the Jets are real stupid and don't realize this, or they do - and fully intend to start him sooner or later. This 20 snaps per game is BS.

    And as an aside the 'element of surprise' strategy (as opposed to skillfull passing) only works for as long as it's a surprise. So the Jets are going to be relying on deception and trickery, rather than good football? Who wants that?[/QUOTE]


    What makes me think that Tebow can handle the assignment just fine is the FACT that he did this very thing when he was a freshman at Florida.

    He was 22 of 33 for a comp % of 66.7, 358 yards, 5 TD's and 1 Int for a rating of 201.7 when coming in for Chris Leak.

    This is to go along with 89 carries for 469 yards, an avg of 5.3 ypc and 8 TDs.

    And that was in 14 games. I'll take 13 TDs in 14 games from Tebow in the WC.

  8. #128
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4421520]How many Wildcat teams have won the Super bowl?[/QUOTE]

    How many WC teams have there been ? How many have really tried it extensively ? How many have had an actual QB taking the snap in the WC ?

    And yes, as someone else said, the NFL is largely static in that there aren't that many innovators. Every once in a while, someone comes along, decides to try something "novel", and if they meet with success, other teams eventually copy it. Sometimes it leads to something with durability (WCO anyone?), and sometimes it has a short life span (Run and Shoot).

  9. #129
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4421826]Did you just selectively ignore the part where I said Ben may not have been a 4000 yard passer when he won his Super Bowls, it doesn't change the fact that he's one of the top 5-8 QB's in the NFL. He's a 4,000 yard passer.[/QUOTE]

    That's kind of funny PM. "Yeah, but Ben LATER BECAME a 4000 yard passer, so that proves my point".

    Ummmm, no, it doesn't prove your point when it's a flat out fact that when Ben won his SBs, he wasn't a 4000 yard passer and no, he wasn't one of the "top 5-8 QB's in the NFL".


    Quick addendum:

    in 2008, the only Top Ten category that Ben Roethlisberger was in was Interceptions thrown and Interception %.
    Last edited by Demosthenes9; 03-29-2012 at 07:08 PM.

  10. #130
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4422040]How many WC teams have there been ? How many have really tried it extensively ? How many have had an actual QB taking the snap in the WC ?

    [/QUOTE]
    Exactly. The Dolphins went 11-5 the first year they tried it.

    Unfortunately, they had Chad Pennington as their QB. Noodle armed QB's can only do so much.

  11. #131
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4421786]Wildcat is not the read-option. The rest is you buying into the justification for Sanchez's benching in the name of ticket sales as soon as Mark falters.......

    Ask Stokes how badly I don't like Sanchez. It's well documented here.

    But that doesn't change the fact that Tebow is inarguably worse.

    Your QB HAS to be accurate and be able to throw.

    The two worst defenses in the league that had next to no running game just had the best two records in the league.

    However, they had the two best QB's in the league.

    You are overthinking this:

    This is a have-or-have-not league. You either have a QB who can carry your entire team or you don't.

    If you don't, you aren't for real.

    Which is what everybody, even the GM's, seem to forget.

    Stafford got hurt his first two years in the league and was labeled injury prone, but look at the Lions now after actually developing him and getting him the tools that complemented him...........

    Football isn't hard. You are worthless until you draft and spend time developing a QB or sign a superstar.

    The Jets are a joke because they don't think it's necessary which is a reflection on a bad or poorly-informed owner as far as winning goes.[/QUOTE]

    [B]PMarsico9 I love your numerous posts on this thread but!!![/B]

    Why weren't you saying these same things on the scores of posts that bashed Sanchez:huh:

    Not trying to call you out just pointing out that I think that FO thought Sanchez wasn't the answer when they failed to groom him and then failed his lack of development on Sanchez rather than their lack of a plan and general ineptitude....
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 03-29-2012 at 07:15 PM.

  12. #132
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4422043]Exactly. The Dolphins went 11-5 the first year they tried it.

    Unfortunately, they had Chad Pennington as their QB. Noodle armed QB's can only do so much.[/QUOTE]


    Yep. It would be correct to say that no team has ever won the SB running the Wildcat, but that's not the same as saying "No team WILL win the SB running the Wildcat".

    I mean, someone could have told Bill Walsh back in the 1980's that not team had every won a SB running the West Coast Offense. Cause everyone knew, to win a SB, you HAD to have a power running game. History demonstrated that.

  13. #133
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    [QUOTE=PMarsico9;4421841]
    [B]Since QB is magnified even further than it's basically always been, my point is that it's OK to piss off your fanbase and suck waiting for him to develop within the duration of his rookie contract, like the Giants did with Eli, Colts did with Peyton, and Chargers did with Brees.
    [/B]
    Or bringing in a veteran game manager rather than playing "hide the QB" in '09 and '10 or "unleash the QB behind a bad O-line and without the wideout he has had his entire career up until that point."[/QUOTE]

    This the key point since the Jets didn't have to move up to get Snachez if they wanted a game manager!!!

    Their development of Sanchez has been a joke and this is not a defense of Sanchez the argument would be the same for [B][SIZE="3"]ANY QB[/SIZE][/B] you moved up in the draft to go get!!!
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 03-29-2012 at 07:41 PM.

  14. #134
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4422036]What makes me think that Tebow can handle the assignment just fine is the FACT that he did this very thing when he was a freshman at Florida.

    He was 22 of 33 for a comp % of 66.7, 358 yards, 5 TD's and 1 Int for a rating of 201.7 when coming in for Chris Leak.

    This is to go along with 89 carries for 469 yards, an avg of 5.3 ypc and 8 TDs.

    And that was in 14 games. I'll take 13 TDs in 14 games from Tebow in the WC.[/QUOTE]

    He sat out 80% of the plays and then came in on first and goal?

  15. #135
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    [QUOTE=Vinny Testaverde's Niece;4422058]He sat out 80% of the plays and then came in on first and goal?[/QUOTE]

    As a Freshman, he came in on goal line situations, short yardages situations, and any other time Urban Meyer decided to send him in.

    Chris Leak was the #1 QB and just as a comparison, he threw 232 of 365 for 2942 yards that year. Tebow "QB'ed" for about 120 something plays in total.

    I'm looking to see if I can find the breakdown of actual number of snaps for each QB, but, Meyer ran it very much like a WC that year (as opposed to another type of 2 QB system, where you just randomly kind of alternate QBs).

  16. #136
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    [QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4422047][B]PMarsico9 I love your numerous posts on this thread but!!![/B]

    Why weren't you saying these same things on the scores of posts that bashed Sanchez:huh:

    Not trying to call you out just pointing out that I think that FO thought Sanchez wasn't the answer when they failed to groom him and then failed his lack of development on Sanchez rather than their lack of a plan and general ineptitude....[/QUOTE]

    Have you ever heard the phrase "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

    That's PMarisco.

    Disgusts me to agree with him.


    _

  17. #137
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    [QUOTE=JStokes;4422112]Have you ever heard the phrase "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

    That's PMarisco.

    Disgusts me to agree with him.


    _[/QUOTE]

    [B][SIZE="3"]LOL very true.........:D[/SIZE][/B]

  18. #138
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    PMarsico9,

    Everyone here would love it if we had a Drew Brees caliber option as our QB and he was capable of running an explosive offense.

    The reality is though, Mark Sanchez is not Drew Brees and is probably never going to be, and Mark's going to be our Quarterback, we couldn't get Peyton, we don't have the chips to get one of the elite prospects in the draft. For better or worse, Mark's our guy.

    So how do you best build your offense around Mark?

    We've had a great deal of success running the Wildcat in the past with Brad Smith, Smith is gone, but we had a chance to acquire an exceptional athlete like Tebow to run it, who is probably an even better passer then Smith ever was (Not that that's saying much).

    The Wildcat is not going anywhere. What makes the Wildcat work is pure numbers, pure X's and O's. On a traditional run play, the QB hands the ball off and then he's out of the play, making it essentially 10-on-11. On a Wildcat play, they cut out the middle man and give the ball directly to a potential ballcarrier, making it a true 11-on-11. It's not a gimmick. It's pure, smashmouth, football. It's pure ground and pound. Defenses have to bring one or both safties down to try and stop it , but that's where having someone with an arm like Tebow comes in. It opens up all kinds of big play potential throwing the ball over the top because you've got the one-on-one matchups your receivers want. You just have to make the throws.

    Just because a team hasn't won a Super Bowl with the Wildcat yet doesn't mean it can't be done. The current version of it has only been around for like 4 years, sheesh, and never been done extensively with someone who can pass the ball well enough to make that a legitimate threat on every Wildcat snap.

    You want to see improvement to the OL and WR core, so does everyone else here. Spending a 4th round pick, and under 2 million in cap space does not prevent us from addressing those needs as well. This just gives us one more option to attack defenses with, and one more thing that opposing teams are going to have to spend a significant amount of time preparing for. Which is less time they're preparing against Mark Sanchez, which in a weird way could help him as well.
    Last edited by Ven0m; 03-29-2012 at 09:25 PM.

  19. #139
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    [QUOTE=Ven0m;4422156]PMarsico9,

    Everyone here would love it if we had a Drew Brees caliber option as our QB and he was capable of running an explosive offense.

    .......

    [/QUOTE]

    Man, it sure would be nice if we could just go out to the "Elite QB Tree" in the back yard and pick up an "elite" QB. I mean, by the sounds of it, you'd think that they were laying around everywhere.

    BTW, seem to recall that SD didn't even realize that they had an "elite" QB. Kind of understandable seeing as how at the time, Brees wasn't "elite".

  20. #140
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4422256]Man, it sure would be nice if we could just go out to the "Elite QB Tree" in the back yard and pick up an "elite" QB. I mean, by the sounds of it, you'd think that they were laying around everywhere.

    BTW, seem to recall that SD didn't even realize that they had an "elite" QB. Kind of understandable seeing as how at the time, Brees wasn't "elite".[/QUOTE]

    And neither was Eli Manning. They became this way with proper development as young QB's, though Brees' started a little late because he was handicapped by being saddled with Schottenheimer, Once he got away from him his career flourished. I think Sanchez will be traded and will become a very good QB with the right QB coach and a good OC.
    Last edited by Vinny Testaverde's Niece; 03-30-2012 at 06:27 PM.

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