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Thread: The correct way to fire a employee

  1. #1
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    The correct way to fire a employee

    Document and following the rules to terminate an employee.


    [QUOTE]A recent appeals court decision affirms the removal of a postal service employee who failed to follow required procedures for getting leave under the Family and Medical Leave Ace (FMLA). (Sullivan v. United States Postal Service, CAFC No. 2011-3220 (nonprecedential), 2/13/12)
    When Sullivan submitted a FMLA request supported by a doctor’s certification that he suffered from gout and would need to miss work for 5-10 days every month, the USPS review committee decided to get a second medical opinion as is the agency’s right. Sullivan was told in writing to report on the date, time and place specified to be examined for the second opinion. The written notice warned that his failure to show up for the exam could lead to denial of the FMLA request. (Opinion p. 2)
    Sullivan failed to show. The agency gave him a chance to explain why he missed the appointment. Sullivan claimed he had not received the agency letter ordering up the second exam. However, the agency FMLA coordinator had proof of delivery. The agency notified Sullivan that his conditional FMLA approval was withdrawn and that any additional leave requests would be denied. (p. 3)
    Sullivan continued to submit no less than twenty additional requests for the next several months. All were denied as promised. The agency took progressive disciplinary action for Sullivan’s failure to follow required leave procedures—letter of warning, then a 7-day suspension, then a 14-day suspension. When Sullivan then racked up an additional 44 unscheduled absences without following required procedures, the USPS took action to remove him. (p. 3)
    On appeal to the Merit Systems Protection Board, the Administrative Judge found that Sullivan “was on ‘clear notice’ that unscheduled absences could result in disciplinary action.” (p. 3) The MSPB sustained USPS’s removal of Sullivan.
    The appeals court has now affirmed Sullivan’s removal: “we hold that substantial evidence supports the Board’s determination that USPS met its burden…and … that USPS did not violate Mr. Sullivan’s rights by withdrawing approval of FMLA leave for his gout condition.” (p. 4)
    This case shows that it is in fact possible to successfully prosecute removal of an employee when the agency exercises patience and discipline in walking through the required procedures.






    [url]http://www.fedsmith.com/article/3316/who-says-its-impossible-fire-federal.html[/url][/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4425605]Document and following the rules to terminate an employee.[/QUOTE]

    [quote]A recent appeals court decision affirms the removal of a postal service employee who failed to follow required procedures for getting leave under the Family and Medical Leave Ace (FMLA). (Sullivan v. United States Postal Service, CAFC No. 2011-3220 (nonprecedential), 2/13/12)
    When Sullivan submitted a FMLA request supported by a doctor’s certification [B]that he suffered from gout[/B] and would need to miss work for 5-10 days every month, the USPS review committee decided to get a second medical opinion as is the agency’s right. Sullivan was told in writing to report on the date, time and place specified to be examined for the second opinion. The written notice warned that his failure to show up for the exam could lead to denial of the FMLA request. (Opinion p. 2)
    Sullivan failed to show. The agency gave him a chance to explain why he missed the appointment. Sullivan claimed he had not received the agency letter ordering up the second exam. However, the agency FMLA coordinator had proof of delivery. The agency notified Sullivan that his conditional FMLA approval was withdrawn and that any additional leave requests would be denied. (p. 3)
    Sullivan continued to submit no less than twenty additional requests for the next several months. All were denied as promised. The agency took progressive disciplinary action for Sullivan’s failure to follow required leave procedures—letter of warning, then a 7-day suspension, then a 14-day suspension. When Sullivan then racked up an additional 44 unscheduled absences without following required procedures, the USPS took action to remove him. (p. 3)
    On appeal to the Merit Systems Protection Board, the Administrative Judge found that Sullivan “was on ‘clear notice’ that unscheduled absences could result in disciplinary action.” (p. 3) The MSPB sustained USPS’s removal of Sullivan.
    The appeals court has now affirmed Sullivan’s removal: “we hold that substantial evidence supports the Board’s determination that USPS met its burden…and … that USPS did not violate Mr. Sullivan’s rights by withdrawing approval of FMLA leave for his gout condition.” (p. 4)
    This case shows that it is in fact possible to successfully prosecute removal of an employee when the agency exercises patience and discipline in walking through the required procedures.






    [url]http://www.fedsmith.com/article/3316...e-federal.html[/url][/quote]

    FF2 worked for the USPS?


    :dunno:

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE]would need to miss work for 5-10 days every month[/QUOTE]

    :confused:

    Every month?

  4. #4
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    All he had to do his show up for the appointment. He cut his own throat!

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4425795]:confused:

    Every month?[/QUOTE]

    You don't file for FMLA without having to miss extended periods of time... I think for your own health, it's 3 months in a year or some ish...

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4425746]FF2 worked for the USPS?


    :dunno:[/QUOTE]

    No one actually [I]works[/I] for the USPS

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    [QUOTE]When Sullivan then racked up an additional 44 unscheduled absences without following required procedures, the USPS took action to remove him.[/QUOTE]

    How many unscheduled unaproved absences would it take any of our employers, before we were outright terminated?

    I'm guessing that it would be alot less than 44.

    What this says more than anything from my perspective is it's exceptionally hard and takes forever and a massive amount fo work before you can fire a bad employee not following the rules.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4425746]FF2 worked for the USPS?


    :dunno:[/QUOTE]

    You don't know my pain.

    That uric acid is a mofo.

    Oh, and I have your Victoria Secret catalog.

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    [QUOTE=FF2;4425898]You don't know my pain.

    That uric acid is a mofo.

    Oh, and I have your Victoria Secret catalog.[/QUOTE]

    You can keep it, I'll just slum it with J. Crew.:rolleyes:

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    Does anybody still wonder why companies move overseas?

    Would be hard for the USPS to do that.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 04-03-2012 at 12:05 PM.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4426137]Does anybody still wonder why companies move overseas?

    Would be hard for the USPS to do that.[/QUOTE]

    In any fortune 500 company...getting fired takes very little.

    This "cant fire someone" approach to the public domain is one of the reasons we have a super bloated public payroll.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4426320]In any fortune 500 company...getting fired takes very little.

    This "cant fire someone" approach to the public domain is one of the reasons we have a super bloated public payroll.[/QUOTE]

    That is absolute bs! My wife works for a very big company and your statement is dead wrong.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4426320]In any fortune 500 company...getting fired takes very little.

    This "cant fire someone" approach to the public domain is one of the reasons we have a super bloated public payroll.[/QUOTE]

    No its not. You fire someone you have to replace them. Won't cost less.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4426730]No its not. You fire someone you have to replace them. Won't cost less.[/QUOTE]

    Not when the staff is "bloated". That's why the overall workforce is 2M or so less than it was a few years ago -- employers realized they could fire people and still get the work done.

    Not good for Joe Employee, but still a consequence of the economic times . . .

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=OCCH;4426739]Not when the staff is "bloated". That's why the overall workforce is 2M or so less than it was a few years ago -- employers realized they could fire people and still get the work done.

    Not good for Joe Employee, but still a consequence of the economic times . . .[/QUOTE]

    southpark was taking about schoolteachers.

    (How do I know this? Thats all he ever talks about.)

    Ya gotta replace them. 35 kids without supervision can make such a mess!

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=OCCH;4426739]Not when the staff is "bloated". That's why the overall workforce is 2M or so less than it was a few years ago -- employers realized they could fire people and still get the work done.

    Not good for Joe Employee, but still a consequence of the economic times . . .[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely.


    Efficiency gained through technology is down right scary.

  17. #17
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    ;)[QUOTE=FF2;4426747]southpark was taking about schoolteachers.

    (How do I know this? Thats all he ever talks about.)

    Ya gotta replace them. 35 kids without supervision can make such a mess![/QUOTE]

    you give me no credit....;)

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4426747](How do I know this? Thats all he ever talks about.)
    [/QUOTE]

    Plus...he has sh*tloads of time during "working hours" to do stuff that teachers can't.

    Post on the internet.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4426775]Plus...he has sh*tloads of time during "working hours" to do stuff that teachers can't.

    Post on the internet.[/QUOTE]

    Accounting software does most of the work nowadays anyhoo, no?

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4426775]Plus...he has sh*tloads of time during "working hours" to do stuff that teachers can't.

    Post on the internet.[/QUOTE]

    But im not stealing time from an employer;)

    and yes....the TAX software does all the work. 14 hours a day of it.

    I'm lucky though, I like what I do, have good clients, make a $hitload of income and post to strangers all day!

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