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Thread: Even as Violent Crime Falls, Killing of Officers Rises

  1. #1
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    Even as Violent Crime Falls, Killing of Officers Rises

    I see two problems that may or may not be the cause, but I tend to lean toward these being the cause;

    1) Those on the edge are fed up with 'rogue' cops, and are fighting back;

    2) The justice system has failed miserably, in allowing more violent people to walk.
    If the judges themselves were the ones that had to re-capture these type of people,
    you'd see a lot less of them being let out.
    To all our LEO friends out there, stay safe.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/us/defying-trends-killings-of-police-[/url][QUOTE]officers-are-on-the-rise.html?_r=4&hp
    WASHINGTON — As violent crime has decreased across the country, a disturbing trend has emerged: rising numbers of police officers are being killed.


    According to statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 72 officers were killed by perpetrators in 2011, a 25 percent increase from the previous year and a 75 percent increase from 2008.

    The 2011 deaths were the first time that more officers were killed by suspects than car accidents, according to data compiled by the International Association of Chiefs of Police. The number was the highest in nearly two decades, excluding those who died in the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001 and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.

    While a majority of officers were killed in smaller cities, 13 were killed in cities of 250,000 or more. New York City lost two officers last year. On Sunday, four were wounded by a gunman in Brooklyn, bringing to eight the number of officers shot in the city since December.

    “We haven’t seen a period of this type of violence in a long time,” said Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly of the New York Police Department.

    While the F.B.I. and other law enforcement officials cannot fully explain the reasons for the rise in officer homicides, they are clear about the devastating consequences.

    “In this law enforcement job, when you pin this badge on and go out on calls, when you leave home, you ain’t got a promise that you will come back,” said Sheriff Ray Foster of Buchanan County, Va. Two of his deputies were killed in March 2011 and two wounded — one of them paralyzed — by a man with a high-powered rifle.

    “That was 80 percent of my day shift,” he said.

    After a spate of killings in early 2011, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. asked federal authorities to work with local police departments to try to come up with solutions to the problem.

    The F.B.I., which has tracked officer deaths since 1937, paid for a study conducted by John Jay College that found that in many cases the officers were trying to arrest or stop a suspect who had previously been arrested for a violent crime.

    That prompted the F.B.I. to change what information it will provide to local police departments, the officials said. Starting this year, when police officers stop a car and call its license plate into the F.B.I.’s database, they will be told whether the owner of the vehicle has a violent history. Through the first three months of this year, the number of police fatalities has dropped, though it is unclear why.

    Some law enforcement officials believe that techniques pioneered by the New York Police Department over the past two decades and adopted by other departments may have put officers at greater risk by encouraging them to conduct more street stops and to seek out and confront suspects who seem likely to be armed. In New York and elsewhere, police officials moved more officers into crime-ridden areas.

    “This technique has become more popular across the country as smaller departments have followed the larger cities and tried to prevent crime,” said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum. “Unlike several decades ago, there is this expectation that police matter and that police can make a difference.”

    Commissioner Kelly said, “We try to put those officers where there is the most potential for violence.” However, he pointed out that most of the officers who have been shot in New York since December were not part of a proactive police deployment but were responding to emergencies.

    Some argue that the rise in violence is linked to the tough economy. With less money, some states are releasing prisoners earlier; police departments, after years of staffing increases, have been forced to make cutbacks.

    “A lot of these killings aren’t happening in major urban areas,” said James W. McMahon, chief of staff for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. “One of the concerns we are looking at is that a number of officers are being laid off or furloughed or not replaced.”

    The police chief in Camden, N.J., J. Scott Thomson, whose force of 400 was cut by nearly half last year because of financing issues, said that having fewer officers on the street “makes it that much more difficult to create an environment in which criminals do not feel as emboldened to assault another person, let alone a law enforcement officer.”

    The murder of a veteran officer last April in Chattanooga, Tenn., was typical of many of the 2011 episodes.

    Sgt. Tim Chapin, a veteran nearing retirement, rushed to provide backup to officers who had responded to reports of a robbery outside a pawnshop and were under fire. Sergeant Chapin got out of his car and chased the fleeing suspect, who had been convicted of armed robbery. During the pursuit, the sergeant was fatally shot in the head.

    As part of the F.B.I.’s efforts to prevent officer deaths, the bureau trains thousands of officers each year, highlighting shootings like the one in Chattanooga to teach officers about situations in which they are most vulnerable. Those situations are typically pursuits, traffic stops and arrests, said Michelle S. Klimt, a top F.B.I. official at its Criminal Justice Information Services Center in Clarksburg, W.Va., who oversees officer training.

    “Every stop can be potentially fatal, so we are trying to make sure the officers are ready and prepared every single day they go out,” Ms. Klimt said. “We try and teach that every day you go out, you are going to be encountered with deadly force by someone trying to kill you.”

    Michael S. Schmidt reported from Washington, and Joseph Goldstein from New York. John H. Cushman Jr. contributed reporting from Washington.[/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    Ease of obtaining firearms.

    Loss of respect for authority due to people like Zimmerman. (Kill or be killed.)

  3. #3
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    Huge cuts in police forces nationwide thanks to the economic collapse and shrunken tax bases. Many fewer cops on the street, scumbags know it and are emboldened.

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    Gun control.

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    The bad ol' days are coming back, especially in NYC. Trust me, I can tell.

    One other reason I'll throw out there, the elimination of the Rockefeller laws and subsequent release of hardened veteran convicts from the crack wars.

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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4432205]Ease of obtaining firearms.

    Loss of respect for authority due to people like Zimmerman. (Kill or be killed.)[/QUOTE]

    I disagree with the firearms part. I would bet most are killed by people with illegally obtained arms.

    Lack of Respect? Agreed. BUT Zimmerman is a BAD example IMO. I wonder if we looked at the profile of cop killers what the profile would be.

    Here in Charlotte we have 2 recently and they were shot in public housing in a set up.

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    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4432275]One other reason I'll throw out there, the elimination of the Rockefeller laws and subsequent release of hardened veteran convicts from the crack wars.[/QUOTE]

    Bingo.

    And the Rockefeller Laws only have themselves to blame. Put a man in prison....and he comes out a better criminal.

    Gee willikers. I wonder what housing non-violent criminals with violent criminals will result in?

    Brilliant!!!

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    [QUOTE=gunnails;4432190]

    1) Those on the edge are fed up with 'rogue' cops, and are fighting back;

    [/QUOTE]

    Hah?

    Did you read the article?

    I'm not saying there arent bad seeds out there, but that is a real stretch.

    And by all means, please enlighten me.

    -

  9. #9
    In most states you can be 18 to purchase some sort of firearm and yet you cannot buy a drink. One can even be provided a gun as a gift.

    I am pro 2nd amendment.

    I do think that there is a bit too much Police violence toward the public and we may just be witnessing some blowback. On the other hand , the training [I] “We try and teach that every day you go out, you are going to be encountered with deadly force by someone trying to kill you.”[/I]

    This seems a bit extreme

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432373]On the other hand , the training [I] “We try and teach that every day you go out, you are going to be encountered with deadly force by someone trying to kill you.”[/I]

    This seems a bit extreme[/QUOTE]

    Seems...because you have never done the job.

    Its about awareness as opposed to actually believing someone will try to kill you every day.

    I forget the name of the book, I read it years ago;

    It was comprised of interviews with cop-killers.

    The overall theme repeated over and over was "they let me do it" and "they werent careful, they never took control of me".

    Many of them said the idea of ever killing a cop never crossed their minds until they were in a situation where they realized...they could do it.

    The key is... or was for me anyhoo...to look them right in the eyes and let them know "it aint happening". I learned this over time.

    I'm not saying to be abusive...or rude...but you must be assertive and in control. Human nature type stuff in a society where there truly is a thin blue line.

    :dunno:

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432373]In most states you can be 18 to purchase some sort of firearm and yet you cannot buy a drink. [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, to me, that's a good thing.

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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4432205]Ease of obtaining firearms.

    Loss of respect for authority due to people like Zimmerman. (Kill or be killed.)[/QUOTE]

    =============================================

    I agree that there are more fire arms out there then ever before, and that it would seem to follow that would be a leading cause of these cop murders.

    But how does that jive with the fact that overall crime is down, seems also that if this phenom was due to easy access to guns that violent crime as a whole would also be on the rise.

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    [QUOTE=gunnails;4432399]But how does that jive with the fact that overall crime is down, seems also that if this phenom was due to easy access to guns that violent crime as a whole would also be on the rise.[/QUOTE]

    The whole "the more you tighten your grip" adage. Better law enforcement makes for better, more lethal criminals in the same way that better antibiotics make stronger, more deadly bacteria...
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 04-10-2012 at 09:22 PM.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=32green;4432385]The key is... or was for me anyhoo...to look them right in the eyes and let them know "it aint happening". I learned this over time.

    I'm not saying to be abusive...or rude...but you must be assertive and in control. Human nature type stuff in a society where there truly is a thin blue line.[/QUOTE]

    Would you say this approached has helped you in your Modding? :confused:

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=32green;4432385]Seems...because you have never done the job.

    Its about awareness as opposed to actually believing someone will try to kill you every day.

    I forget the name of the book, I read it years ago;

    It was comprised of interviews with cop-killers.

    The overall theme repeated over and over was "they let me do it" and "they werent careful, they never took control of me".

    Many of them said the idea of ever killing a cop never crossed their minds until they were in a situation where they realized...they could do it.

    The key is... or was for me anyhoo...to look them right in the eyes and let them know "it aint happening". I learned this over time.

    I'm not saying to be abusive...or rude...but you must be assertive and in control. Human nature type stuff in a society where there truly is a thin blue line.

    :dunno:[/QUOTE]

    How about someone coming up with the number of stops daily and pit that against the number of times LEO's are faced with that harsh reality. The numbers don't seem that they pan out.

    Cops do not get shot or even shot at every day. And that is the reality. They face for the most part American citizens.

    No I have never been a cop. I served the nation as a US Marine. I believe that it is somewhat respectable to do so.

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    [QUOTE=32green;4432304]Hah?

    Did you read the article?

    I'm not saying there arent bad seeds out there, but that is a real stretch.

    And by all means, please enlighten me.

    -[/QUOTE]
    =============================================
    I shal try to flesh out my point.

    I believe there are those out there who feel as though the man(LEO) is wicked and preventing them from some unknown freedom or oppressing them from doing what they feel they are entitled to do.

    I believe that part of the reason some feel this way is do to technology (the internet and such that allows any fringe intellect a blog to spew there foolishness) and a social change (people whose only interaction with LE is a negative) in how we as a society view those who we hire to police us.

    I myself have read of LE misconduct and viewed Youtubes that I come away from thinking what the hell is going on. Go to the google machine or to Youtube and type in good cop and you will get little in terms of results, type in bad cop and they are countless.

    I like to think the bad cops make up 1% or less of the total of LEO, and maybe another 10% get caught doing a misdeed due to poor training. People are sheep and they allow these few to taint there views on the whole.

    Some on the fringe allow there misconceptions to over take there better judgement, and occasionally this results in violence/murder for LEO.

    There is a large group of citizens out there that view LE as the bad guy. Some of these citizens feel they are just in fighting back against these "rouge" cops.

    Faithfully submitted by a NON cop hater.

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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432442]How about someone coming up with the number of stops daily and pit that against the number of times LEO's are faced with that harsh reality. The numbers don't seem that they pan out.

    Cops do not get shot or even shot at every day. And that is the reality. They face for the most part American citizens.

    No I have never been a cop. I served the nation as a US Marine. I believe that it is somewhat respectable to do so.[/QUOTE]

    It doesn't matter how often cops get shot at. The truth is that they face the possibility with each and every encounter. They have to assume the worst case each and every time.

    Thank you for your service.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4432424]The whole "the more you tighten your grip" adage. Better law enforcement makes for better, more lethal criminals in the same way that better antibiotics make stronger, more deadly bacteria...[/QUOTE]

    ==============================================
    A good an lucent point well taken PK.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=gunnails;4432441]=============================================
    I believe there are those out there who feel as though the man(LEO) is wicked and preventing them from some unknown freedom or oppressing them from doing what they feel they are entitled to do.

    There is a large group of citizens out there that view LE as the bad guy.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. This is why I had a job; They are commonly called... criminals.

    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432442]
    Cops do not get shot or even shot at every day. And that is the reality. They face for the most part American citizens.

    No I have never been a cop. I served the nation as a US Marine. I believe that it is somewhat respectable to do so.[/QUOTE]

    I respect your service. Lets get that out of the way. Marines dont get shot or shot at every day. Unless you are talking about Marines in general...then they do. If you are talking about cops in general...well...they do too.

    Every day.

    Any Marine or Cop that doesnt approach every encounter as if it could be their last is poorly trained or incompetent.

    :dunno:
    Last edited by 32green; 04-10-2012 at 10:03 PM.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Jetdawgg;4432442] I served the nation as a US Marine. I believe that it is somewhat respectable to do so.[/QUOTE]

    ========================================

    An honorable profession, for which you have my gratitude an uppermost respect.

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