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Thread: Important Survey of Swing Independents

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    Important Survey of Swing Independents

    Well worth the [URL="http://content.thirdway.org/publications/511/Third_Way_Report_-_Opportunity_Trumps_Fairness_with_Swing_Independents.pdf"]full read[/URL]. Some encouraging things in there, to my mind - the group of voters most likely to decide this election strongly prefer an "opportunity" message on the economy to a "fairness" message, and most see themselves as ideologically closer to Romney than Obama - yet closer to the democrats than the republicans.

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4433706]and most see themselves as ideologically closer to Romney than Obama - yet closer to the democrats than the republicans.[/QUOTE]

    While I can't view the link at work this makes sense...

    If somebody sat me down and asked me questions based on 'all' issues and not just those that deal with the economy, they'd find me in the middle or siding with 'D'...

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4433706]Well worth the [URL="http://content.thirdway.org/publications/511/Third_Way_Report_-_Opportunity_Trumps_Fairness_with_Swing_Independents.pdf"]full read[/URL]. Some encouraging things in there, to my mind - [B]the group of voters most likely to decide this election strongly prefer an "opportunity" message on the economy to a "fairness" message, and most see themselves as ideologically closer to Romney than Obama - yet closer to the democrats than the republicans[/B].[/QUOTE]

    Only had to time to read half of it for now but a very good read so far. I would put myself in this category, I think.

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4433706]...see themselves as ideologically closer to Romney than Obama - yet closer to the democrats than the republicans.[/QUOTE]

    Why is that?

    "Cultural Warriors".

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4434099]Why is that?

    "Cultural Warriors".[/QUOTE]
    While ignoring obvious headwinds the cultural custodians were all predicting a Jimmy Carter re-election at this point in 1980.

    But the landslide was inevitable.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4434099]Why is that?

    "Cultural Warriors".[/QUOTE]

    Speaking as one of the people who would be in that "swing" category if not for the fact that I strongly prefer Romney to Obama, damn straight.

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4433706]Well worth the [URL="http://content.thirdway.org/publications/511/Third_Way_Report_-_Opportunity_Trumps_Fairness_with_Swing_Independents.pdf"]full read[/URL]. Some encouraging things in there, to my mind - the group of voters most likely to decide this election strongly prefer an "opportunity" message on the economy to a "fairness" message, and most see themselves as ideologically closer to Romney than Obama - yet closer to the democrats than the republicans.[/QUOTE]

    OK, so we have an "opportunity message" vs. a "fairness message"

    so are we voting on "messages" or can either one of these fackers actually improve the economy????? and how do they plan on doing it?

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    IMO Romney is Obama + actually willing to drill. Takes about 8 yrs to get to production after legislation to actually get oil. Obama Administation is taking credit for drilling that was set up and planned under Bush. If Romney is willing to open up ANWR then he gets my vote. Although it will ultimately come down to The House and The Senate.

    I believe we have way more reserves than people think and that by the time those reserves dry up the alternative energies will be perfected. Simple as that. It is in Alaska. There is so much oil there that stones coming out of the ground are actually oil stained. They just need to figure out a way to do it safely and without much harm to the wilderness. Nobody is drilling in anyone's backyard, no ugly rigs on the coastline. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

    I think solving the energy problem will help with the economy. I think they go hand and hand. The price of energy effects the price of everything. There will be real actual sustainable jobs, not infrastructure jobs that last a year. There are only so many roads to pave and bridges to paint. Doesn't really help us in the North East with jobs but at least the cost of energy should go down.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 04-15-2012 at 07:21 PM.

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    [QUOTE=FF2;4435740]OK, so we have an "opportunity message" vs. a "fairness message"

    so are we voting on "messages" or can either one of these fackers actually improve the economy????? and how do they plan on doing it?[/QUOTE]

    According to Governor Romney he plans to:

    1. Cut taxes across the board by 20%
    2. Stop the recent cuts made to the Pentagon and add more ships to the Navy
    3. Not leave Afghanistan
    4. And Balance the Federal Budget.


    To me this sounds exactly like President Bush II's economic policy.

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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4435747]IMO Romney is Obama + actually willing to drill. Takes about 8 yrs to get to production after legislation to actually get oil. Obama Administation is taking credit for drilling that was set up and planned under Bush. If Romney is willing to open up ANWR then he gets my vote. Although it will ultimately come down to The House and The Senate.

    I believe we have way more reserves than people think and that by the time those reserves dry up the alternative energies will be perfected. Simple as that. It is in Alaska. There is so much oil there that stones coming out of the ground are actually oil stained. They just need to figure out a way to do it safely and without much harm to the wilderness. Nobody is drilling in anyone's backyard, no ugly rigs on the coastline. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

    I think solving the energy problem will help with the economy. I think they go hand and hand. The price of energy effects the price of everything. There will be real actual sustainable jobs, not infrastructure jobs that last a year. There are only so many roads to pave and bridges to paint. Doesn't really help us in the North East with jobs but at least the cost of energy should go down.[/QUOTE]

    You don't think biridges and roads need repair?

    You don't think improving the transportation system brings down cost?

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    [QUOTE=FF2;4435740]OK, so we have an "opportunity message" vs. a "fairness message"

    so are we voting on "messages" or can either one of these fackers actually improve the economy????? and how do they plan on doing it?[/QUOTE]

    FF, rhetorical frames matter. When you're working from a "fairness" frame - as Obama has been, trying to capitalize on the Occupy momentum - you are talking about the economy as a zero-sum game, the haves and the have-nots, and pushing policies designed to "narrow the gap" between the two, typically by the equivalent of brute force (taxation).

    When you are working from an "opportunity" frame, your focus is on increasing the ability of all people to be part of the haves, and looking at the economy not as a zero-sum game.

    Those frames lead to dramatically different policy positions.

    I think the economic contrast between Romney (unleash business, slash corporate tax rates to make us competitive with other first world countries, eliminate regulations that are more burdensome than beneficial) and Obama (raise taxes, tax "windfall profits", regulate more) is clear. Which you think is better policy is a matter of judgment, but swing independents seem to prefer the former to the latter, and that's important.

    Speaking only for myself, I much prefer the former. Regulation [B]is [/B]important - but the burdens and benefits have to be adequately calibrated, and I think we've tilted to the side of overregulation (or at least, overregulation on matters that are not beneficial enough to support the burden).

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    Can you post the poll results of Swinging Independents, with pictures?

    Thanks.

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    [QUOTE=Buster;4435778]You don't think biridges and roads need repair?

    You don't think improving the transportation system brings down cost?[/QUOTE]

    What do you think? Of course they need repair. But that is not how you repair the economy. Wars and infrastructure don't boost the economy anymore. That was 70yrs ago.

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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4435747]IMO Romney is Obama + actually willing to drill. [/QUOTE]

    Exactly.

    And anyone trying to convince you that Romney is a Republican is not quite paying a-f*cking attention.

    I mean...look at this a**hole: [url]http://www.newser.com/story/144132/50k-gets-you-inauguration-access-to-romney.html[/url]

    The man stands for NOTHING.










    And that is exactly why I'll be voting for him. All democrats should be rallying behind Romney. If this sock puppet wins the election...4 years of his "as the wind blows every day changing opinions" will spell doom for Republicans.

    Elect Romney. Put the final spike in the Republican party....

    HI! I'm Mitt Romney!! Today I believe in this. Tomorrow I will believe in that.
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 04-16-2012 at 09:19 AM.

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4435804]FF, rhetorical frames matter. When you're working from a "fairness" frame - as Obama has been, trying to capitalize on the Occupy momentum - you are talking about the economy as a zero-sum game, the haves and the have-nots, and pushing policies designed to "narrow the gap" between the two, typically by the equivalent of brute force (taxation).

    When you are working from an "opportunity" frame, your focus is on increasing the ability of all people to be part of the haves, and looking at the economy not as a zero-sum game.

    Those frames lead to dramatically different policy positions.

    I think the economic contrast between Romney (unleash business, slash corporate tax rates to make us competitive with other first world countries, eliminate regulations that are more burdensome than beneficial) and Obama (raise taxes, tax "windfall profits", regulate more) is clear. Which you think is better policy is a matter of judgment, but swing independents seem to prefer the former to the latter, and that's important.

    Speaking only for myself, I much prefer the former. Regulation [B]is [/B]important - but the burdens and benefits have to be adequately calibrated, and I think we've tilted to the side of overregulation (or at least, overregulation on matters that are not beneficial enough to support the burden).[/QUOTE]

    I would be down with this if I believed Presidents actually followed through with policies that reflected their rhetoric. (Whether its' their lack of follow through or the oppositions blocking it.)

    I gave up with "Read my lips...."

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4436033]
    Elect Romney. Put the final spike in the Republican party....
    [/QUOTE]

    There is some truth to this. But I think it is a two-way street. We are a reactive nation. But I don't think it will result in the death of either party. But I do think it will result in some very lean years for one of them.

    If Obama wins and in the next four years things stay stagnant or get worse, and his healthcare plan becomes the unmitigated disaster the GOP claims it is and more money is wasted on alternative energy, and the deficit grows to a thousand trillion billion then I think people will be down on the dems, except for hardliners and unions. And the GOP will say "I told you so" and the next few elections will go their way.

    If Romney wins and doesn't fix the economy then the Dems will get a complete mulligan for Obama.

    Bush had the ultimate blank check in 9/11 and yet by the end of this term he managed to piss everyone off which screwed whatever Republican was running and got Obama elected b.c he said the magic word, "Change". Even though nobody knew how he planned on doing it, they just bought in to the hype. Throughout most of his first term he basically echoed Bush's policies. Extended the tax-cuts, supporting the surge of troops in Afghanistan, basically entered two more wars, LOL.

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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4436152]There is some truth to this. But I think it is a two-way street. We are a reactive nation. But I don't think it will result in the death of either party. But I do think it will result in some very lean years for one of them.

    If Obama wins and in the next four years things stay stagnant or get worse, and his healthcare plan becomes the unmitigated disaster the GOP claims it is and more money is wasted on alternative energy, and the deficit grows to a thousand trillion billion then I think people will be down on the dems, except for hardliners and unions. And the GOP will say "I told you so" and the next few elections will go their way.

    If Romney wins and doesn't fix the economy then the Dems will get a complete mulligan for Obama.

    Bush had the ultimate blank check in 9/11 and yet by the end of this term he managed to piss everyone off which screwed whatever Republican was running and got Obama elected b.c he said the magic word, "Change". Even though nobody knew how he planned on doing it, they just bought in to the hype. Throughout most of his first term he basically echoed Bush's policies. Extended the tax-cuts, supporting the surge of troops in Afghanistan, basically entered two more wars, LOL.[/QUOTE]

    You forgot the most important one...

    If Romney wins and does well domestically, R is back in power for the foreseeable future, with the notion that electing centered candidates is the way to go...

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