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Thread: NY State ELA Exam

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    NY State ELA Exam

    With big money at stake it is no surprise that this years ELA exam that is being administered to NY public school students this week was way above grade level and manipulative.

    The political elite will stop at no end to prove how less deserving all educators are of their salaries and benefits even on the backs of the children.

    It is perplexing to me how many people believe the political elite in their quest to break public education so they can privatize it and make even more money on the backs of students.

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4437792]With big money at stake it is no surprise that this years ELA exam that is being administered to NY public school students this week was way above grade level and manipulative.

    The political elite will stop at no end to prove how less deserving all educators are of their salaries and benefits even on the backs of the children.

    It is perplexing to me how many people believe the political elite in their quest to break public education so they can privatize it and make even more money on the backs of students.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, very hard to understand why people don't believe rambling conspiracy theories offered by some members of a group with a decided interest in the outcome.

    But please, elaborate. Who are the members of the "political elite"who stand to make money by privatizing education, and now that they've accomplished step one (or, as the south park folks might say, "collected the underpants"), what is step 2? Or is that still unclear? Step three, obviously, is "profit".

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    Btw, could you provide some examples of "way above grade level"questions that were asked?

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4438067]Btw, could you provide some examples of "way above grade level"questions that were asked?[/QUOTE]

    And for 12th grade teachers, were the questions above grade level :i_dont_kn

    They had their tests administered by Alex Trebek, me thinks...

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    In a country in which the best selling books for adults are Harry Potter and Hunger Games, I'm really wondering what "way above grade level" means.

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    My son in 7th grade said yesterday's test was a joke. Then again we're the kind of parents who work with him all the time to make sure he's on top of his schoolwork.

    God forbid we set the bar high for our kids. We wouldn't want to hurt the teachers' feelings.

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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438222]My son in 7th grade said yesterday's test was a joke. Then again we're the kind of parents who work with him all the time to make sure he's on top of his schoolwork.

    [B]God forbid we set the bar high for our kids.[/B] We wouldn't want to hurt the teachers' feelings.[/QUOTE]

    Reminds me of when I moved to Charlotte and we had our 2 girls (then 9 and 6) tested for placement in a private school. They BOTH tested well onto the top 10 percent nationwide and my youngest in the top 3 percent.

    I responded.."These 2 knuckleheads are in the top 10 percent". We're in trouble as a country.

    Reality is that I personaly monitored and mentored them. I did NOT put value on teacher conferences.
    I didn't meet many school teachers whose opinion I valued, not meant as disrespect, meant as the path to becoming a teacher is not overly difficult nor is the college curriculum difficult (IMO) and as an active parent, I need the advice of some 20 something kid who went to Dowling or Oneonta?
    Last edited by southparkcpa; 04-18-2012 at 10:32 AM.

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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438222]we're the kind of parents who work with him all the time to make sure he's on top of his schoolwork.

    .[/QUOTE]

    well thats what your supposed to be doing. are you expecting a cookie now?

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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438249]well thats what your supposed to be doing. are you expecting a cookie now?[/QUOTE]

    The teachers want one... Why not the parents :i_dont_kn

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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4438067]Btw, could you provide some examples of "way above grade level"questions that were asked?[/QUOTE]

    Before I start, the most important test of the year was scheduled for the day that kids and teachers came back from spring break.

    Much of the NYC public school population struggles learning English. Many students are new immigrants or English is not spoken at home. Many new immigrants in NYC are from China where symbols are used rather than the alphabet. This brings on another level of difficulty that is near impossible to teach. Many simple concepts that we take for granted in the English language are very difficult for most students.

    The ELA reading passages were very difficult for a population that is struggling to learn English.

    The first passage was about a dog. The dog made everyone sad. The dog made everyone mad. The dog made everyone happy. The dog made everyone glad. The dog's name was "HAPPY." The dog could have had any name but the name that was given was an "emotion?" For students who are just learning English this is extremely difficult. Imagine how many errors are made understanding the concept of names versus emotions.

    The second passage was about the Harlem Dance Theater. They mentioned the full name in the first sentence and then for the next 12 times during the passage refereed to it as HDT. Many cultures outside of the US do not recognize this. This is also extremely difficult for students, let alone students who are striving to learn English to grasp. Each question then referred to the name Harlem Dance Theater. Very unfair

    The third passage was an advertisement. The advertisement had a part that stated "Now ONLY $10." The "N" in "Now" was a different font than the rest of the word. The font made it difficult to recognize it as an "N" or an "H."

    These are just some of the tricks that the people who want students to fail, so the teachers fail, and they can justify why the teacher's salaries are not just.

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    Here we go. :yes:

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438256]Before I start, the most important test of the year was scheduled for the day that kids and teachers came back from spring break.

    Much of the NYC public school population struggles learning English. Many students are new immigrants or English is not spoken at home. Many new immigrants in NYC are from China where symbols are used rather than the alphabet. This brings on another level of difficulty that is near impossible to teach. Many simple concepts that we take for granted in the English language are very difficult for most students.

    The ELA reading passages were very difficult for a population that is struggling to learn English.

    The first passage was about a dog. The dog made everyone sad. The dog made everyone mad. The dog made everyone happy. The dog made everyone glad. The dog's name was "HAPPY." The dog could have had any name but the name that was given was an "emotion?" For students who are just learning English this is extremely difficult. Imagine how many errors are made understanding the concept of names versus emotions.

    The second passage was about the Harlem Dance Theater. They mentioned the full name in the first sentence and then for the next 12 times during the passage refereed to it as HDT. Many cultures outside of the US do not recognize this. This is also extremely difficult for students, let alone students who are striving to learn English to grasp. Each question then referred to the name Harlem Dance Theater. Very unfair

    The third passage was an advertisement. The advertisement had a part that stated "Now ONLY $10." The "N" in "Now" was a different font than the rest of the word. The font made it difficult to recognize it as an "N" or an "H."

    These are just some of the tricks that the people who want students to fail, so the teachers fail, and they can justify why the teacher's salaries are not just.[/QUOTE]

    well said.

    if its like that in NY, imagine how much worse it is in floriduh.

    on the math exams, almost every problem requires multiple steps. in other words, if you are going to test a kid for their knowledge of lets say dividing fractions, the problem might be a mixed number divided by a number in scientific notation. so if the kid really is good at dividing 8/12 by 3/4 but weak in scientific notation, they get it wrong. its like taking a drivers test and the guy asks you what the speed limit is in knots. not fair

    and ill bet 95% of all these big mouths would outright fail an 8th grade math and science fcat

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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438288]well said.

    if its like that in NY, imagine how much worse it is in floriduh.

    on the math exams, almost every problem requires multiple steps. in other words, if you are going to test a kid for their knowledge of lets say dividing fractions, the problem might be a mixed number divided by a number in scientific notation. so if the kid really is good at dividing 8/12 by 3/4 but weak in scientific notation, they get it wrong. its like taking a drivers test and the guy asks you what the speed limit is in knots. not fair

    and ill bet 95% of all these big mouths would outright fail an 8th grade math and science fcat[/QUOTE]

    Your awful analogy explains why your panties are so bunched up.

    If it is a math test, then it is on math. Why shouldn't steps be combined as they have to be in life? If that is not being taught, it should be and needs to be identified.

    As for tests being unfair because of varying degrees of understanding of english? Feel free to propose english language competency as a requirement to move up from 6th grade. This country doesn't have the wherewithall to teach every student in it's native language.
    Teachers know the environment going in. We have been throwing money at education for too long without results.

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    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4438255]The teachers want one... Why not the parents :i_dont_kn[/QUOTE]



    i think what teachers want is good parents. when anyone with a pulse and working organs can bring unwanted kids in the world, thats a problem.

    you know what the #1 reason our schools fail? its bad parenting. they send us these their undisciplined, uneducateable brats with no background knowledge and its a baby sitting service.

    ive called a parent of this screaming idiot for classroom disruptions and they told me to "f---k off and dont call again...its your proble"

    i called a mom of a kid i witnessed stealing from the book fair and they got angry at me insisting on talking to the principal and questioned what kid of person i was for "watching him steal" and "allowing it"

    i called a parent of a girl who had cheat notes on a science test. she is pretty and popular and connected. when confronted, she admitted and said" yea so what i dont care"

    the next morning im called into the office with an irate parent asking me why i "degraded and embarrased" her child

    im not a parent, but i know that doing HW with your kid and being on top of EVERYTHING is a parents job. teachers fascillitate, thats all. not miracle workers

    im done several thing before this and im telling you this is the most frustrating job. and the pay is peanuts

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    [QUOTE=Piper;4438305]Your awful analogy explains why your panties are so bunched up.

    If it is a math test, then it is on math. Why shouldn't steps be combined as they have to be in life? If that is not being taught, it should be and needs to be identified.

    As for tests being unfair because of varying degrees of understanding of english? Feel free to propose english language competency as a requirement to move up from 6th grade. This country doesn't have the wherewithall to teach every student in it's native language.
    Teachers know the environment going in. We have been throwing money at education for too long without results.[/QUOTE]

    your so dumb its shameful

    go take any teacher education program at any college and they will pound into your head over and over again about proper assessment. if you are testing one subtopic, you test that item otherwise you really arent testing anything. the test should test all item but not combined except for some more advanced problems. in other words a test should not be 100% mulitstep problems, as it is here.

    colleges in fact dedicate an entire course just for this idea.

    so you think it is right that a kid who masters dividing fractions should get a ZERO for dividing fractions because they are weak in scientific notation? please.....

    but now i think you are smart because i agree with your language argument

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438256]Before I start, the most important test of the year was scheduled for the day that kids and teachers came back from spring break.

    Much of the NYC public school population struggles learning English. Many students are new immigrants or English is not spoken at home. Many new immigrants in NYC are from China where symbols are used rather than the alphabet. This brings on another level of difficulty that is near impossible to teach. Many simple concepts that we take for granted in the English language are very difficult for most students.

    The ELA reading passages were very difficult for a population that is struggling to learn English.

    The first passage was about a dog. The dog made everyone sad. The dog made everyone mad. The dog made everyone happy. The dog made everyone glad. The dog's name was "HAPPY." The dog could have had any name but the name that was given was an "emotion?" For students who are just learning English this is extremely difficult. Imagine how many errors are made understanding the concept of names versus emotions.

    The second passage was about the Harlem Dance Theater. They mentioned the full name in the first sentence and then for the next 12 times during the passage refereed to it as HDT. Many cultures outside of the US do not recognize this. This is also extremely difficult for students, let alone students who are striving to learn English to grasp. Each question then referred to the name Harlem Dance Theater. Very unfair

    The third passage was an advertisement. The advertisement had a part that stated "Now ONLY $10." The "N" in "Now" was a different font than the rest of the word. The font made it difficult to recognize it as an "N" or an "H."

    These are just some of the tricks that the people who want students to fail, so the teachers fail, and they can justify why the teacher's salaries are not just.[/QUOTE]

    If these examples are grounds for outrage and claims of conspiracy, then all I can really say is agree to disagree.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with adding basic and straightforward mental challenges into these types of aptitude and skill tests. In my opinion, dumbed down education and testing leads to a dumbed down society.

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    yes you are right you cant expect the state to cater to every immigrant and their language needs...but guess what? they do. and the teacher gets the short end of the stick

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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4438235]Reminds me of when I moved to Charlotte and we had our 2 girls (then 9 and 6) tested for placement in a private school. They BOTH tested well onto the top 10 percent nationwide and my youngest in the top 3 percent.

    I responded.."These 2 knuckleheads are in the top 10 percent". We're in trouble as a country.

    Reality is that I personaly monitored and mentored them. I did NOT put value on teacher conferences.
    I didn't meet many school teachers whose opinion I valued, not meant as disrespect, meant as the path to becoming a teacher is not overly difficult nor is the college curriculum difficult (IMO) and as an active parent, I need the advice of some 20 something kid who went to Dowling or Oneonta?[/QUOTE]

    Maybe you can tell the rest of us what makes you the best? You only typed "I" 6 times when talking about the topic. :rolleyes:

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    [QUOTE=parafly;4438321]If these examples are grounds for outrage and claims of conspiracy, then all I can really say is agree to disagree.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with adding basic and straightforward mental challenges into these types of aptitude and skill tests. In my opinion, dumbed down education and testing leads to a dumbed down society.[/QUOTE]

    I am guessing you have not been in a middle school classroom lately.

    Students have issues learning correct English far and beyond when you or I were in school.

    I mentioned a few examples but their were many more. Far too many to write about. Confusing questions that principals and teachers have a difficult time answering.

    Rule of thumb, if the classroom teacher and principal have a difficult time answering the question then it is far too tricky and unfair.

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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438322]yes you are right you cant expect the state to cater to every immigrant and their language needs...but guess what? they do. and the teacher gets the short end of the stick[/QUOTE]

    I find it hilarious that the liberal OP takes issue with this when it is a liberal ideal that is the cause...

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