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Thread: NY State ELA Exam

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=parafly;4438321]If these examples are grounds for outrage and claims of conspiracy, then all I can really say is agree to disagree.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with adding basic and straightforward mental challenges into these types of aptitude and skill tests. In my opinion, dumbed down education and testing leads to a dumbed down society.[/QUOTE]

    i dont think its a conspiracy, but it is a huge breakdown in communication. they order books from company A, but they dont bother to read what is in the books.

    the result? almost always the state tests are far more difficult than the state books. they dont test the same things in the same way. furthermore, the people who create the questions usually use such advanced language its like it was drawn up by lawyers instead of using language that is a little more child friendly.

    so you think its fair that teachers get textbooks from the state, they teach out of those books and then the kid gets a state test with far more formal language with more difficult concepts that were never taught?

    ok your right. its the teachers fault...

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438327]
    Rule of thumb, if the classroom teacher and principal have a difficult time answering the question then it is far too tricky and unfair.[/QUOTE]


    this is what is echoed down here year after year after year.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438327]
    Rule of thumb, if the classroom teacher and principal have a difficult time answering the question then it is far too tricky and unfair.[/QUOTE]

    I'm interested now. Cite an example of a question you and your principal had an issue with and let us diagnose the real issue here...

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4438329]I find it hilarious that the liberal OP takes issue with this when it is a liberal ideal that is the cause...[/QUOTE]

    thats cool. im glad you are enjoying this. the reason is that because i am a better person than you.

    I believe in what i believe based on how i feel. most others believe what they believe becuase thats what their political affiliation says they should believe in order to ensure that they are a honorable, god fearing patriots of this nation.

    im liberal in many ways and conservative in many others. i dont root for a political party or ideology ....im a free man. you can go on and root for the republicans vs the democrats like it was the jets vs new england

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438316]your so dumb its shameful

    go take any teacher education program at any college and they will pound into your head over and over again about proper assessment. if you are testing one subtopic, you test that item otherwise you really arent testing anything. the test should test all item but not combined except for some more advanced problems. in other words a test should not be 100% mulitstep problems, as it is here.

    colleges in fact dedicate an entire course just for this idea.

    so you think it is right that a kid who masters dividing fractions should get a ZERO for dividing fractions because they are weak in scientific notation? please.....

    but now i think you are smart because i agree with your language argument[/QUOTE]

    I didn't say a child should get a zero, in your theoretical example because that wasn't what your argument was. Even your response is so fragmented that it doesn't contain enough context to anwer your question.
    But if colleges are teaching one method, and the educational elite are creating tests that undercut that, then your complaint should be with your own hierarchy, not with public officials and citizens who want to know why America spends as much or more than any industrialized nation on earth for educations with much worse results.

    The biggest problem with the Academic community is they feel exactly how you do, everyone else is dumb. Which if true, apparently too few of us were taught effectively.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4438333]I'm interested now. Cite an example of a question you and your principal had an issue with and let us diagnose the real issue here...[/QUOTE]

    cocky bastard...you havent a clue. id bet a grand youd fail the florida 8th grade science test and most likely the math too

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4438065]Yes, very hard to understand why people don't believe rambling conspiracy theories offered by some members of a group with a decided interest in the outcome.

    But please, elaborate. Who are the members of the "political elite"who stand to make money by privatizing education, and now that they've accomplished step one (or, as the south park folks might say, "collected the underpants"), what is step 2? Or is that still unclear? Step three, obviously, is "profit".[/QUOTE]

    Bloomberg, Christie, Bush under No Child Left Behind, any and all of the leaders pushing charter schools (private schools using public buildings) all with shady business connections to companies pushing their agendas of taking away unions and workers rights.

    Big money in education, when the majority of the kids fail they buy the books and get extra help from the companies connected to the test. Those companies connected to the test often win "no bid" contracts on making the exam.

    Big scam to get rid of teacher salaries and benefits all on the backs of our children.

    Keep believing the political elite and their quest to revert back to no labor laws with no unions.

    Its all about breaking unions, period.........

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438330]i dont think its a conspiracy, but it is a huge breakdown in communication. they order books from company A, but they dont bother to read what is in the books.

    the result? almost always the state tests are far more difficult than the state books. they dont test the same things in the same way. furthermore, the people who create the questions usually use such advanced language its like it was drawn up by lawyers instead of using language that is a little more child friendly.

    so you think its fair that teachers get textbooks from the state, they teach out of those books and then the kid gets a state test with far more formal language with more difficult concepts that were never taught?

    ok your right. its the teachers fault...[/QUOTE]

    This!..........

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Piper;4438346]I didn't say a child should get a zero, in your theoretical example because that wasn't what your argument was. Even your response is so fragmented that it doesn't contain enough context to anwer your question.
    But if colleges are teaching one method, and the educational elite are creating tests that undercut that, then your complaint should be with your own hierarchy, not with public officials and citizens who want to know why America spends as much or more than any industrialized nation on earth for educations with much worse results.

    The biggest problem with the Academic community is they feel exactly how you do, everyone else is dumb. Which if true, apparently too few of us were taught effectively.[/QUOTE]

    you attacked me and i gave it back to you. thats all. i dont feel anything about the "academic community" or think im better

    whats aggrevating is that what copernicus and i are saying is absolute reality and you guys just feel like blaming teachers. theres a problem in schools fellas......

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438330]ok your right. its the teachers fault...[/QUOTE]

    I never claimed anything about the teachers, but in some cases yes, in some cases no.

    Personally, I disagree with using student test scores as a sole barometer of teacher performance.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438306]i think what teachers want is good parents. when anyone with a pulse and working organs can bring unwanted kids in the world, thats a problem.

    you know what the #1 reason our schools fail? its bad parenting. they send us these their undisciplined, uneducateable brats with no background knowledge and its a baby sitting service.

    ive called a parent of this screaming idiot for classroom disruptions and they told me to "f---k off and dont call again...its your proble"

    i called a mom of a kid i witnessed stealing from the book fair and they got angry at me insisting on talking to the principal and questioned what kid of person i was for "watching him steal" and "allowing it"

    i called a parent of a girl who had cheat notes on a science test. she is pretty and popular and connected. when confronted, she admitted and said" yea so what i dont care"

    the next morning im called into the office with an irate parent asking me why i "degraded and embarrased" her child

    im not a parent, but i know that doing HW with your kid and being on top of EVERYTHING is a parents job. teachers fascillitate, thats all. not miracle workers

    im done several thing before this and im telling you this is the most frustrating job. and the pay is peanuts[/QUOTE]


    You are a teacher, yet your post appears to have been written by a drunken monkey on a broken typewriter.

    Yeah, it's all the parents' fault.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=Piper;4438346]
    The [B]biggest problem with the Academic community is they feel exactly how you do, everyone else is dumb.[/B] Which if true, apparently too few of us were taught effectively.[/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY.

    We all should have scored 900 on the SAT's and gone to Dowling.:rolleyes:

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438222]My son in 7th grade said yesterday's test was a joke. Then again we're the kind of parents who work with him all the time to make sure he's on top of his schoolwork.

    God forbid we set the bar high for our kids. We wouldn't want to hurt the teachers' feelings.[/QUOTE]

    Most students do not have parents like you. Your son also sounds like a pretty decent kid. Far too many of my students in NYC do not have these resources. How do we helps them?

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438348]cocky bastard...you havent a clue. id bet a grand youd fail the florida 8th grade science test and most likely the math too[/QUOTE]

    You're a teacher... You allegedly wouldn't have the scratch to pay up :rolleyes:

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438363]How do we helps them?[/QUOTE]

    Complaining about the use of acronyms in a test question is not where I would start.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438361]You are a teacher, yet your post appears to have been written by a drunken monkey on a broken typewriter.

    Yeah, it's all the parents' fault.[/QUOTE]

    I wasn't going to go there but +1...

    In Florida, it kind of makes sense... If I didn't move to Connecticut before high school, I'd have never went to college...

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438327]

    Students have issues learning correct English far and beyond when you or I were in school.

    I mentioned a few examples but their were many more. [/QUOTE]

    Oh the irony.

    A grammatical butcher shop of a sentence about students being able to learn "correct English," followed by the use of "their" instead of "there."

    Parents bad though.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438354]you attacked me and i gave it back to you. thats all. i dont feel anything about the "academic community" or think im better

    whats aggrevating is that what copernicus and i are saying is absolute reality and you guys just feel like blaming teachers. theres a problem in schools fellas......[/QUOTE]

    I said your analogy was awful, you called me dumb. 'Nuff said

    And BTW most of the people running the schools were teachers. Most of the people creating the textbooks are either teachers, were teachers or use teachers to do the legwork.

    Police your own community instead of railing against those who question mediocre results after massive investments.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438374]Oh the irony.

    A grammatical butcher shop of a sentence about students being able to learn "correct English," followed by the use of "their" instead of "there."

    Parents bad though.[/QUOTE]

    I'm still waiting for the list of questions that baffled the teachers and principals...

    Not to mention what grade level those questions were associated with...

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4438067]Btw, could you provide some examples of "way above grade level"questions that were asked?[/QUOTE]

    For all that are not informed the political elite believe that is appropriate for elementary and middle school kids to be tested "officially" for 3 plus hours a day for three straight days. Then again for math next week. The political elite wanted the test to be longer but had to be reminded that the children had to eat!

    One of the questions from the test was a definition of the word "value". A standard dictionary has the definition for "value" with 10 meanings:

    [I]val·ue (vly)
    n.
    1. An amount, as of goods, services, or money, considered to be a fair and suitable equivalent for something else; a fair price or return.
    2. Monetary or material worth: the fluctuating value of gold and silver.
    3. Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit: the value of an education.
    4. A principle, standard, or quality considered worthwhile or desirable: "The speech was a summons back to the patrician values of restraint and responsibility" (Jonathan Alter).
    5. Precise meaning or import, as of a word.
    6. Mathematics An assigned or calculated numerical quantity.
    7. Music The relative duration of a tone or rest.
    8. The relative darkness or lightness of a color. See Table at color.
    9. Linguistics The sound quality of a letter or diphthong.
    10. One of a series of specified values: issued a stamp of new value. [/I]

    The answer for the question on the exam was for the fourth definition of value.

    Do you think it is fair for students to be asked the definition to a word that has ten different meanings? How about when up to half of the city's population of students are considered new English learners? How will their parents help them?

    Just one example of MANY on this exam............
    Last edited by copernicus; 04-18-2012 at 12:06 PM.

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