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Thread: NY State ELA Exam

  1. #41
    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438361]You are a teacher, yet your post appears to have been written by a drunken monkey on a broken typewriter.

    Yeah, it's all the parents' fault.[/QUOTE]

    i knew this was coming. what took so long? let me tell you something im an excellent writer when i need to be. this is a message board...i type fast to just get something out. if i wanted to buckle down id do so. i see all my mistakes

  2. #42
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4438366]You're a teacher... You allegedly wouldn't have the scratch to pay up :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    your right. scratch that

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438427]i see all my mistakes[/QUOTE]

    You want a cookie?

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=Piper;4438375]

    Police your own community instead of railing against those who question mediocre results after massive investments.[/QUOTE]

    its not my job to police my own community any more than it would be every docors job to go out of their way to find the bad doctors or lawyers root out the ambulance chasers.

    it is what it is


    and as for mediocre results....why is it that you wouldnt want to explore the bad parenting aspect of this just to be fair

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438439]You want a cookie?[/QUOTE]

    yes chocolate chip

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438443]its not my job to police my own community any more than it would be every docors job to go out of their way to find the bad doctors or lawyers root out the ambulance chasers.[/QUOTE]

    Another terrible analogy. It is your job when you're part of a union. Doctors and lawyers aren't.

    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438443]
    and as for mediocre results....why is it that you wouldnt want to explore the bad parenting aspect of this just to be fair[/QUOTE]

    No one has said that. What do you propse the government do to ensure better parenting?

    The blame is shared here between parents and the system. And the system can only address the system.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438348]cocky bastard...you havent a clue. id bet a grand youd fail the florida 8th grade science test and most likely the math too[/QUOTE]

    btw... can I get in on this too?

  8. #48
    heres a good one for you: in fl now, our "pay" is tied to performance on student state tests.

    well, i just administered a math one with 10 kids. 6 of them are on my caseload.

    well numbers 1: stared into space for 10 minutes...redirected several times. then, just started bubbling and was "done" in 3 minutes. didnt crack the book open

    number 2: slept. woke up. slept. woke up. slept................

    number 3 : made believe they took the test. bubbled 5 in a row, stared into space for 5 minutes....bublled another 5 etc etc

    luckily, my 3 others put valient effort in.

    my point? my pay is based on this?!?!

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438443]its not my job to police my own community [/QUOTE]

    It's not your job to protect the numerous horrible teachers in your community either -- yet that seems to be a key component to the job description.....one that's much higher on the list than "doing right by the students."

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438471]It's not your job to protect the numerous horrible teachers in your community either -- yet that seems to be a key component to the job description.....one that's much higher on the list than "doing right by the students."[/QUOTE]

    Go to school with your son for a week or any public school in NYC. See his teachers in action. Observe the lack of resources, especially when it comes to behavior issues that are above and beyond what a teacher should deal with. Then tell me how many of them are "horrible."

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4438457]Another terrible analogy. It is your job when you're part of a union. Doctors and lawyers aren't.



    No one has said that. What do you propse the government do to ensure better parenting?

    The blame is shared here between parents and the system. And the system can only address the system.[/QUOTE]

    sorry i dont see the bad analogy. first off, im in no union. secondly, you are asking a single member of a profession to rise up and fix the entire system. is that fair or realistic? teachers as a group have been byotching for years about this stuff and it doesnt get very far

    i dont expect the govt to regulate parenting. what im saying is that there are bad parents raising maniacs that get sent to school. there are parents who expect nothing from their kids and dont understand the principle of consequence, so how much can you expect?

    there is a very close relationship between parenting/income/student performance. the apple NEVER falls far from the tree. the best student have the best parents with comfy living conditions. its just the way that it is. good luck working in a poverty school

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438327]I am guessing you have not been in a middle school classroom lately.

    Students have issues learning correct English far and beyond when you or I were in school.[/QUOTE]

    Yet not nearly as many as there was at the beginning of the 20th century. Immigration as a percentage of the American population is still below 3%, where a century ago, it was closer to 10%. Somehow, we got through that.

    I noticed too that you're referencing a state exam, yet your language claim is reflective of NYC only, which makes up only part of the state system.

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=shakin318;4438471]It's not your job to protect the numerous horrible teachers in your community either -- yet that seems to be a key component to the job description.....one that's much higher on the list than "doing right by the students."[/QUOTE]

    thats pure opinion. and its clear that you have an axe to grind. i dont defend anybody. im into me and me only

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438466]heres a good one for you: in fl now, our "pay" is tied to performance on student state tests.

    well, i just administered a math one with 10 kids. 6 of them are on my caseload.

    well numbers 1: stared into space for 10 minutes...redirected several times. then, just started bubbling and was "done" in 3 minutes. didnt crack the book open

    number 2: slept. woke up. slept. woke up. slept................

    number 3 : made believe they took the test. bubbled 5 in a row, stared into space for 5 minutes....bublled another 5 etc etc

    luckily, my 3 others put valient effort in.

    my point? my pay is based on this?!?![/QUOTE]

    This!

  15. #55
    heres the solution. this benefits everyone and saves money (or the start of the solution):

    treat education as a privilege, not an entitlement.

    If you send an ill mannered boy to school who disrupts, bullys and takes down the whole class ........give him his few chances....and then no more school for him until he learns manners. if he never learns to behave, no education.DONE. also, dont provide any sort of alternate education, because that costs more money.

    who benefits?
    the teachers because they can teach instead of police
    the good students who want to learn can do so without disruptions or fear
    the principlas who can administer instead of making phone calls and attending discipline meeting/hearings
    the taxpayer who doesnt have to have money wasted

    what about the kid?
    probably destined to be a bum anyways, hewasnt going to learn much so who cares. let his mommy deal with him

    its a simple lifeboat analogy

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438498]heres the solution. this benefits everyone and saves money (or the start of the solution):

    treat education as a privilege, not an entitlement.

    If you send an ill mannered boy to school who disrupts, bullys and takes down the whole class ........give him his few chances....and then no more school for him until he learns manners. if he never learns to behave, no education.DONE. also, dont provide any sort of alternate education, because that costs more money.

    who benefits?
    the teachers because they can teach instead of police
    the good students who want to learn can do so without disruptions or fear
    the principlas who can administer instead of making phone calls and attending discipline meeting/hearings
    the taxpayer who doesnt have to have money wasted

    what about the kid?
    probably destined to be a bum anyways, hewasnt going to learn much so who cares. let his mommy deal with him

    its a simple lifeboat analogy[/QUOTE]

    Liberals would never allow it... It hits the people who vote for them too hard... It also puts pretty much every inner city teacher out of a job... Which would mean Copernicus is @ss out...

  17. #57
    [QUOTE=dickkotite;4438306]i think what teachers want is good parents. when anyone with a pulse and working organs can bring unwanted kids in the world, thats a problem.

    you know what the #1 reason our schools fail? its bad parenting. they send us these their undisciplined, uneducateable brats with no background knowledge and its a baby sitting service.

    ive called a parent of this screaming idiot for classroom disruptions and they told me to "f---k off and dont call again...its your proble"

    i called a mom of a kid i witnessed stealing from the book fair and they got angry at me insisting on talking to the principal and questioned what kid of person i was for "watching him steal" and "allowing it"

    i called a parent of a girl who had cheat notes on a science test. she is pretty and popular and connected. when confronted, she admitted and said" yea so what i dont care"

    the next morning im called into the office with an irate parent asking me why i "degraded and embarrased" her child

    im not a parent, but i know that doing HW with your kid and being on top of EVERYTHING is a parents job. teachers fascillitate, thats all. not miracle workers

    im done several thing before this and im telling you this is the most frustrating job. and the pay is peanuts[/QUOTE]

    Why do Unions including the teachers union continue to support government programs that prop up single parenting?

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438256]Before I start, the most important test of the year was scheduled for the day that kids and teachers came back from spring break. [/quote]

    It's an english language test. The skills it is testing should be ingrained enough in students that they should be able to score at an appropriate level which ever day it is scheduled for. And since they knew what day the test was in advance, they could have studied over spring break as well.

    [QUOTE]Much of the NYC public school population struggles learning English. Many students are new immigrants or English is not spoken at home. Many new immigrants in NYC are from China where symbols are used rather than the alphabet. This brings on another level of difficulty that is near impossible to teach. Many simple concepts that we take for granted in the English language are very difficult for most students. [/QUOTE]

    And, therefore? Teachers shouldn't be expected to teach such students English? Those students shouldn't be at grade level?

    The bottom line is that is the student population. If the students need more resource room time or a stronger IEP or to be held back because they do not know enough English for their grade level, then that is what should happen.


    [QUOTE]The ELA reading passages were very difficult for a population that is struggling to learn English. [/QUOTE]

    The English test was difficult for people who are struggling with English? That's your complaint?

    What type of test would it be if it was [I][B]easy[/B][/I] for people who are struggling with English?

    [QUOTE]The first passage was about a dog. The dog made everyone sad. The dog made everyone mad. The dog made everyone happy. The dog made everyone glad. The dog's name was "HAPPY." The dog could have had any name but the name that was given was an "emotion?"[/QUOTE]

    Yes. That's the point, in fact - to determine if the student is comprehending what he is reading or is just relying on words he recognizes without any understanding of context or import.

    [QUOTE] For students who are just learning English this is extremely difficult. Imagine how many errors are made understanding the concept of names versus emotions.[/QUOTE]

    You mean "imagine how many people don't know the thing the test is testing"? Again, [I][B]isn't that the point[/B][/I]? And what's the alternative - are you proposing that the English Language Arts test should be written as an ESL test, despite the many native English speakers in the student population?

    [QUOTE]The second passage was about the Harlem Dance Theater. They mentioned the full name in the first sentence and then for the next 12 times during the passage refereed to it as HDT. Many cultures outside of the US do not recognize this. This is also extremely difficult for students, let alone students who are striving to learn English to grasp. Each question then referred to the name Harlem Dance Theater. Very unfair[/QUOTE]

    See above. Again, this is an English language test. It is not "unfair" for an English language test to be difficult for students who struggle with English, any more than it is unfair for the Bar Exam to be difficult for students who don't know the law, or for Medical Boards to be difficult for test takers who are bad at medicine.

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4438522]Why do Unions including the teachers union continue to support government programs that prop up single parenting?[/QUOTE]

    winston, what do you want me to say about that? there are a lot of unions supporting whatever. we are talking about state testing here.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4438327]I am guessing you have not been in a middle school classroom lately.

    Students have issues learning correct English far and beyond when you or I were in school.

    I mentioned a few examples but their were many more. Far too many to write about. Confusing questions that principals and teachers have a difficult time answering.

    [B]Rule of thumb, if the classroom teacher and principal have a difficult time answering the question then it is far too tricky and unfair.[/B][/QUOTE]

    If the classroom teacher and principal have difficulty comprehending a passage because the dog's name was "Happy", then the classroom teacher and principal should be out of a job.

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