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Thread: Kerley says Tebow has more velocity on the throws.

  1. #141
    [QUOTE=OCCH;4445168]Quick -- name another franchise whose fanbase gets upset when one of their players is spoken of in a positive light.

    It's OK, I can wait . . .[/QUOTE]

    Excellent Post. We are supposed to be Jets fans not Tebow or Sanchez fans. I'm not going to be upset over positive statements concerning a Jets player.

  2. #142
    [QUOTE=JStokes;4446433]Hmmmm, lets look that up.



    Here you go.

    Care to STFU now?

    BTW, since Tebow didn't start the first 5 games, do you think that maybe some of those drops occured on Orton's dime?

    Seriously, STFU already.

    Mark Sanchez-- without the 30 drops--completed 62.25% of his passes.

    Please please please stop trying to convince anyone and everyone that Tebow is a better thrower than Sanchez, that he's more accurate, that there are reasons OTHER than he SUCKS as a passer that he played a FULL NFL GAME and his Offensive Coordinator let him attempt ONLY EIGHT PASSES--[B][SIZE="7"]he's only completed over 50% of his passes in THREE out of 16 career starts[/SIZE][/B].

    [url]http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232[/url]

    1 Indianapolis Colts 45
    2 Detroit Lions 41
    3 Arizona Cardinals 40
    4 New England Patriots 39
    5 St. Louis Rams 36
    6 Cincinnati Bengals 34
    7 New Orleans Saints 32
    8 New York Giants 32
    9 Philadelphia Eagles 31
    10 Carolina Panthers 31
    11 Houston Texans 30
    [B]12 New York Jets 30 [/B]
    13 Seattle Seahawks 29
    14 Green Bay Packers 28
    15 Miami Dolphins 28
    16 Pittsburgh Steelers 27
    17 Buffalo Bills 26
    18 Atlanta Falcons 25
    19 Dallas Cowboys 25
    [B]20 Denver Broncos 25[/B]
    21 Oakland Raiders 25
    22 San Francisco 49ers 25
    23 Washington Redskins 25
    24 Minnesota Vikings 24
    25 Chicago Bears 23
    26 Tennessee Titans 23
    27 Cleveland Browns 22
    28 San Diego Chargers 22
    29 Kansas City Chiefs 21
    30 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21
    31 Jacksonville Jaguars 18
    32 Baltimore Ravens

    _[/QUOTE]

    I didn't think that part was featured prominently enough. That's like, really bad.

  3. #143
    [QUOTE=JStokes;4446433]Hmmmm, lets look that up.



    Here you go.

    Care to STFU now?

    BTW, since Tebow didn't start the first 5 games, do you think that maybe some of those drops occured on Orton's dime?

    Seriously, STFU already.

    Mark Sanchez-- without the 30 drops--completed 62.25% of his passes.

    Please please please stop trying to convince anyone and everyone that Tebow is a better thrower than Sanchez, that he's more accurate, that there are reasons OTHER than he SUCKS as a passer that he played a FULL NFL GAME and his Offensive Coordinator let him attempt ONLY EIGHT PASSES--he's only completed over 50% of his passes in THREE out of 16 career starts.

    [url]http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232[/url]

    1 Indianapolis Colts 45
    2 Detroit Lions 41
    3 Arizona Cardinals 40
    4 New England Patriots 39
    5 St. Louis Rams 36
    6 Cincinnati Bengals 34
    7 New Orleans Saints 32
    8 New York Giants 32
    9 Philadelphia Eagles 31
    10 Carolina Panthers 31
    11 Houston Texans 30
    [B]12 New York Jets 30 [/B]
    13 Seattle Seahawks 29
    14 Green Bay Packers 28
    15 Miami Dolphins 28
    16 Pittsburgh Steelers 27
    17 Buffalo Bills 26
    18 Atlanta Falcons 25
    19 Dallas Cowboys 25
    [B]20 Denver Broncos 25[/B]
    21 Oakland Raiders 25
    22 San Francisco 49ers 25
    23 Washington Redskins 25
    24 Minnesota Vikings 24
    25 Chicago Bears 23
    26 Tennessee Titans 23
    27 Cleveland Browns 22
    28 San Diego Chargers 22
    29 Kansas City Chiefs 21
    30 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21
    31 Jacksonville Jaguars 18
    32 Baltimore Ravens

    _[/QUOTE]



    Hmmm, wonder why you seem to have ignored this:

    [quote]OF Sanchez's pass attempts this year, 65.86% of then ranged from behind the Los to 10 yards from the LoS. For Tebow, that number was 47.91%.


    OF Sanchez's pass attempts this year, 90.72% of then ranged from behind the Los to 20 yards from the LoS. For Tebow, that number was 78.33%.

    Think that might have something to do with differences in comp %?[/quote]


    Might come as a huge shock to you, but screen/dump off passes behind the LoS or just over the LoS have a much higher completion percentage. I.e. QBs who have a higher percentage of those in their passing mix will have a higher completion %.

    Hell, even John Elway understood this and said so at the press conference at the end of the season.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tebow is super accurate, he's not. But, a lot of it is a perception issue due to the fact that when he misses, he really, really misses.

  4. #144
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    [QUOTE=JB1089;4446440]I didn't think that part was featured prominently enough. That's like, really bad.[/QUOTE]

    Mark Sanchez's regular season career completion % is 55.3%--if you figure in his playoff %, it's even higher.

    Some here would say that's awful, I wouldn't go that far for a third year QB, but it's not great, certainly not nearly adequate going forward.

    In Tebow's career--16 starts--one full NFL season--he's only had ONE GAME where he completed a higher % of passes than Sanchez's career average and that was on 10-15 (66.7%).

    So Sanchez sucks for his career, but there is somehow a reason to explain away Tebow's inaccuracy?

    No agenda there--that's just statistics, right?

    _

  5. #145
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4446451]Hmmm, wonder why you seem to have ignored this:




    Might come as a huge shock to you, but screen/dump off passes behind the LoS or just over the LoS have a much higher completion percentage. I.e. QBs who have a higher percentage of those in their passing mix will have a higher completion %.

    Hell, even John Elway understood this and said so at the press conference at the end of the season.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Tebow is super accurate, he's not. But, a lot of it is a perception issue due to the fact that when he misses, he really, really misses.[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure what previously banned poster you are, you sound kind of like Magnus/Avi--but I'm not sure whether you've actually seen Sanchez or Tebow actually throw the ball.

    Convince yourself all you want that Tebow is MORE accurate than his stats would lead you to believe and that Sanchez is LESS accurate than HIS stats would lead you to believe. Sanchez had MORE drops than Tebow and Orton combined and Tebow didn't have ALL those drops--some were Orton's.

    Tebow does not make any of the throws Sanchez makes to Braylon or Keller or Holmes in the back of endzones or sideline routes or on the run displaying beautiful accuracy and spin and zip.

    2011, admittedly he took a step back, but I lay a lot of the blame on him getting killed by Hunter and going into a shell.

    I get it, you love Tebow and you hate Sanchez. I hope for the Jets sake we never have to see Tebow play quarterback for us. TE, H-Back, punt protector, fake field goal holder, running back, run some routes, hand the ball off to him.

    Absolutely.

    Starting QB like some of you are hoping for?

    Hahahahahaaaaaaaa.

    _

  6. #146
    I hope Tebow and Sanchez work together in perfect harmony and the NYJETS win the Super Bowl..............than what will we all have to ***** about.

  7. #147
    Honestly now, who gives a crap about velocity? I'm sure JaMarcus Russell throws harder than both of them from his knees but that still did him no good. :P

  8. #148
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    [QUOTE=JStokes;4446433]Hmmmm, lets look that up.



    Here you go.

    Care to STFU now?

    BTW, since Tebow didn't start the first 5 games, do you think that maybe some of those drops occured on Orton's dime?

    Seriously, STFU already.

    Mark Sanchez-- without the 30 drops--completed 62.25% of his passes.

    Please please please stop trying to convince anyone and everyone that Tebow is a better thrower than Sanchez, that he's more accurate, that there are reasons OTHER than he SUCKS as a passer that he played a FULL NFL GAME and his Offensive Coordinator let him attempt ONLY EIGHT PASSES--he's only completed over 50% of his passes in THREE out of 16 career starts.

    [url]http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232[/url]

    1 Indianapolis Colts 45
    2 Detroit Lions 41
    3 Arizona Cardinals 40
    4 New England Patriots 39
    5 St. Louis Rams 36
    6 Cincinnati Bengals 34
    7 New Orleans Saints 32
    8 New York Giants 32
    9 Philadelphia Eagles 31
    10 Carolina Panthers 31
    11 Houston Texans 30
    [B]12 New York Jets 30 [/B]
    13 Seattle Seahawks 29
    14 Green Bay Packers 28
    15 Miami Dolphins 28
    16 Pittsburgh Steelers 27
    17 Buffalo Bills 26
    18 Atlanta Falcons 25
    19 Dallas Cowboys 25
    [B]20 Denver Broncos 25[/B]
    21 Oakland Raiders 25
    22 San Francisco 49ers 25
    23 Washington Redskins 25
    24 Minnesota Vikings 24
    25 Chicago Bears 23
    26 Tennessee Titans 23
    27 Cleveland Browns 22
    28 San Diego Chargers 22
    29 Kansas City Chiefs 21
    30 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21
    31 Jacksonville Jaguars 18
    32 Baltimore Ravens

    _[/QUOTE]


    i forgot to add my link

    [url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/[/url]

    but those were not numbers i made up..........keller would prob be on the list for most dropped passes for a TE........

    I never ever said tebow was a better passer i said he can be a NFL passer and more suited to run a offense that rex and sparno want to run........that is the problem people do not look at what I say just soon as a make a defense or criticsm of either QB they put on shields and ignore the actual posts show me where I ever said he was a better thrower and more accurate?

    My defense is sanchez does not have the football IQ takes forever to go through his reads and does not have leadership of that lockerroom or field those are very big problems for me.

    Tebow on the other hand took a team that was obv reeling with orton at QB prob did not have alot of confidence and made the playoffs even though elway admitted during the last 3 games he became more tenative which is why he played worse he was not being tebow.

    those are what I believe and I will stick to them and continue to defend or critique who i want if people do not like it I do not care I am not politically correct and could care less if people like me or not.

    it would be nice if people wanted a actual debate though instead of making up stuff and saying I said it..........:eek:

  9. #149
    [QUOTE=JStokes;4446459]I'm not sure what previously banned poster you are, you sound kind of like Magnus/Avi--but I'm not sure whether you've actually seen Sanchez or Tebow actually throw the ball.[/quote]

    For starters, I've never been banned from here JS, and I'm definitely not Magnus/Avi or whomever you are referring to.

    I've seen Sanchez throw on a number of occasions and I watched 85% or so of all the passes Tebow threw in his first 16 starts. I also watched the kid for 4 years while he was at Florida.

    [QUOTE]Convince yourself all you want that Tebow is MORE accurate than his stats would lead you to believe and that Sanchez is LESS accurate than HIS stats would lead you to believe. Sanchez had MORE drops than Tebow and Orton combined and Tebow didn't have ALL those drops--some were Orton's. [/QUOTE]

    I guess along with having difficulty with math and physics, comprehension is an issue with you as well. Why do I say that ? Because I haven't really talked about Sanchez other than to point out that he has a much higher percentage of shorter pass attempts than Tebow did last year. Guess what ? MOST QBs in the league have similar percentages to Sanchez. Why is that ? Because most OC's not named Mike McCoy actually call screen passes and short routes.

    Newsflash to you fella, me pointing that out isn't a knock against Sanchez, rather, it's a simple statement of fact.



    [QUOTE]Tebow does not make any of the throws Sanchez makes to Braylon or Keller or Holmes in the back of endzones or sideline routes or on the run displaying beautiful accuracy and spin and zip.[/QUOTE]

    Umm, at times, Tebow most certainly made some of those passes in his last 16 starts. Seriously dude, if you take the blinders off, you'll see that Tebow's problem is one of CONSISTENCY. He's made "all the NFL passes". He's made a lot of remarkable passes actually, both short, midrange, and deep. Again, it's CONSISTENCY.

    Scenario: Tebow throws a beautiful 15 yard out pass on 3rd and 10. next series, he then throws a nice 7 yard crossing route on 2nd and 5. Series after that, it's 3rd and 6 and Tebow short hops the ball to Decker.

    What do people remember ? That he bounced a ball to Decker and the drive stalled. Hence, he's a terrible and inaccurate passer.


    [QUOTE]2011, admittedly he took a step back, but I lay a lot of the blame on him getting killed by Hunter and going into a shell.
    [/QUOTE]

    Guess what ? This will probably shock you quite a bit. I agree with you and would actually add some things to that list. Play calling didn't always help. Nor did the fact that he didn't have a stable receiving corps.


    [QUOTE]I get it, you love Tebow and you hate Sanchez. I hope for the Jets sake we never have to see Tebow play quarterback for us. TE, H-Back, punt protector, fake field goal holder, running back, run some routes, hand the ball off to him.[/QUOTE]

    Again, an apparent problem with comprehension. Please go back and find out where I have said ANYTHING that would indicate that I hate Sanchez or even that I think Tebow is a better QB/passer RIGHT NOW.

    Guess what ? You won't find either. Why is that ? Because I don't hate Sanchez, nor do I dislike him. To the contrary, I think he's a pretty good QB and could get better.

    Furthermore, I think Sanchez SHOULD be the stater this year, and that Tebow should be the backup.

  10. #150
    [QUOTE=hatnlvr;4446464]Honestly now, who gives a crap about velocity? I'm sure JaMarcus Russell throws harder than both of them from his knees but that still did him no good. :P[/QUOTE]

    The two things to take from the article is that Kerley said that Tebow's accuracy surprised him, and that Tebow threw with very good velocity.

    As I explained in a previous post, good velocity is largely due to good mechanics. Accuracy is due to good mechanics as well.

    What I HOPE this means is that Tebow improved his mechanics while working with Mazzone this offseason and that those mechanics are now ingrained in his muscle memory.

    This would be very good for the Jets as it would make Tebow even more of a threat in the "wildcat" package.

  11. #151
    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4446489]The two things to take from the article is that Kerley said that Tebow's accuracy surprised him, and that Tebow threw with very good velocity.

    As I explained in a previous post, good velocity is largely due to good mechanics. Accuracy is due to good mechanics as well.

    What I HOPE this means is that Tebow improved his mechanics while working with Mazzone this offseason and that those mechanics are now ingrained in his muscle memory.

    This would be very good for the Jets as it would make Tebow even more of a threat in the "wildcat" package.[/QUOTE]

    Tebow actually improved his deliver quite a lot before the draft in 2010. However, it all went away once he got into a game. It's one thing to make a tweak here or there, like getting Rodgers to hold the ball lower, but it's another to rebuild a delivery from the ground up like is needed with Tebow.

  12. #152
    [QUOTE=ucrenegade;4446486]i forgot to add my link

    [url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/[/url]

    but those were not numbers i made up..........keller would prob be on the list for most dropped passes for a TE........

    I never ever said tebow was a better passer i said he can be a NFL passer and more suited to run a offense that rex and sparno want to run........that is the problem people do not look at what I say just soon as a make a defense or criticsm of either QB they put on shields and ignore the actual posts show me where I ever said he was a better thrower and more accurate?

    My defense is sanchez does not have the football IQ takes forever to go through his reads and does not have leadership of that lockerroom or field those are very big problems for me.

    Tebow on the other hand took a team that was obv reeling with orton at QB prob did not have alot of confidence and made the playoffs even though elway admitted during the last 3 games he became more tenative which is why he played worse he was not being tebow.

    those are what I believe and I will stick to them and continue to defend or critique who i want if people do not like it I do not care I am not politically correct and could care less if people like me or not.

    it would be nice if people wanted a actual debate though instead of making up stuff and saying I said it..........:eek:[/QUOTE]

    There's not a QB in the league that goes through progressions more slowly than Tebow. That's why the Broncos eliminated all but the most basic pass concepts from their offense.

  13. #153
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4446493]Tebow actually improved his deliver quite a lot before the draft in 2010. However, it all went away once he got into a game. It's one thing to make a tweak here or there, like getting Rodgers to hold the ball lower, but it's another to rebuild a delivery from the ground up like is needed with Tebow.[/QUOTE]

    I could easily be wrong about this, but I really think that much of his passing inconsistency is due to him thinking about his mechanics, footwork, etc while trying to throw, instead of just throwing. Late in games, when he's running the spread out of the shotgun, he just plays.

  14. #154
    [QUOTE=GMCJETS;4445047]The QB controversy has begun...........thank you Mike Tannenbaum,Woody Johnson and Rex Ryan.[/QUOTE]

    The Jets should have resisted the urge to get a good backup quarterback who will help the team in many different areas.

    They should have just picked up Mark Brunell again and have QB coach Matt Cavanaugh be the 3rd string qb. This way, Mark Sanchez is not pushed and The Jets have no insurance at the quarterback position.

  15. #155
    [QUOTE=Snell41;4445331]Funny thing is Byron Leftwich was dead on accurate, yet his throwing motion still ended up doing him in as a QB.[/QUOTE]

    Byron Leftwich is a solid NFL backup capable of winning football games when called upon to start. Let's hope the Timmy Tebow magic of 2011 fueled by a great Denver defense will resurface again as a NY Jet.

  16. #156
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    Arguing about which of our two quarterbacks Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow is less inaccurate is about as useful as arguing which genocidal maniac, Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot was actually less of a genocidal maniac. Or if you don't like that one then it is a bit like arguing the merits of having a three inch dick as opposed to a two and a half inch dick.

    Both QB suck in terms of being able to throw the ball and get completions.

    Tebow sucks more and it isn't even as close as the two and a half inches to three inches example above.

    Just sayin' :yes:

  17. #157
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    [QUOTE=JStokes;4445052]When you windmill your throws, and you start your throwing motion from behind your back and have a totally looping follow-through like Tebow, you will get more velocity.

    Snap throws, like most NFL QBs? Not so much.

    It's physics.

    But also your throwing motion is so long, at some point NFL defenders are going to pick that up and start stepping in front of throws--no matter how much velocity.

    Tebow is bigger and stronger than Sanchez, if he didn't have more velocity than Sanchez with his total wind-up and throwing motion, I'd be shocked.

    Sanchez learned how to throw a pass better than Tebow and that's why he'll survive as a thrower.

    Besides, regardless of Tebow's "velocity", his accuracy SUCKS--and we get it Sanchez haters, you think HIS accuracy sucks--but there is NO debating the issue--Tebow's accuracy is nauseating.

    What good is being able to throw it through a barn if you can't hit the barn?

    _[/QUOTE]


    So if Tebow threw a hot dog down a hallway, are you saying he'd miss?

  18. #158
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    [QUOTE=EM31;4446559]Arguing about which of our two quarterbacks Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow is less inaccurate is about as useful as arguing which genocidal maniac, Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot was actually less of a genocidal maniac. [B]Or if you don't like that one then it is a bit like arguing the merits of having a three inch dick as opposed to a two and a half inch dick.[/B]

    Both QB suck in terms of being able to throw the ball and get completions.

    Tebow sucks more and it isn't even as close as the two and a half inches to three inches example above.

    Just sayin' :yes:[/QUOTE]

    :ontome:

  19. #159
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    [QUOTE=EM31;4446559]Arguing about which of our two quarterbacks Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow is less inaccurate is about as useful as arguing which genocidal maniac, Adolph Hitler or Pol Pot was actually less of a genocidal maniac. Or if you don't like that one then it is a bit like arguing the merits of having a three inch dick as opposed to a two and a half inch dick.

    Both QB suck in terms of being able to throw the ball and get completions.

    Tebow sucks more and it isn't even as close as the two and a half inches to three inches example above.

    Just sayin' :yes:[/QUOTE]

    So which one are you, two and a half or three?

  20. #160
    Problem: The entire Jets lockeroom hates Mark Sanchez.

    Solution: Let's trade for Tim Tebow!


    :rolleyes:

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