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Thread: Real Differences between Coples and Gholston

  1. #1

    Real Differences between Coples and Gholston

    So, to help to put this comparison behind us, I want to make a thread of actual differences between Coples and Gholston.

    First: Coples is 6-6, Gholston is 6-4.

    Coples is about 275-ish, Gholston is 245-ish

    The Jets are asking Coples to put his hand in the dirt and be disruptive - something he did in college all the time.

    The Jets asked Gholston to make the transition to OLB.

    As revealed in Rex's book, Rex never liked Gholston and advised people not to draft him. Mangini ended up drafting Gholston. Rex inherited him and still tried to work with him.

    Rex loves Coples and feels that with coaching, he will become a force.

    Other differences? Go ahead!

  2. #2
    Not even the same type of player, brother. Please, for the love of God and all that's holy, we need to stop comparing Coples to Gholston. I understand everyone's worried he'll be a bust, but please stop these comparisons.

    It's like saying Ray Lewis is like Kyle Clifton. Two very different players.

  3. #3
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    Gholston didn't take his last college season off. Coples did.

    Gholston always tried hard. Coples did not.

    Gholston wasn't voted the most likely DL bust. Coples was.

    Gholston didn't fall in the draft. Coples did.

  4. #4
    Any Gholston comparison is an immediate indication of intellectual laziness.

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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4450446]Not even the same type of player, brother. Please, for the love of God and all that's holy, we need to stop comparing Coples to Gholston. I understand everyone's worried he'll be a bust, but please stop these comparisons.

    [B]It's like saying Ray Lewis is like Kyle Clifton[/B]. Two very different players.[/QUOTE]

    No, it's nothing like that.

    Both are super athletic defensive front seven players with questionable motors and a passion for football that might be lacking who had tons of boom/bust potential coming out of the draft.

    Obviously the fact that one busted has no bearing on whether another one does, but there's a very obvious comparrison to be made -- people claiming apples and oranges have no clue what they're talking about.

    The thing that encourages me a bit is that (as the OP pointed out) Rex was pretty vocal about not liking Gholston or thinking he was a good prospect from the start, while obviously liking Coples. Not that Rex is the be all end all, but it's a good sign.

  6. #6
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    Gholston was the least passionate player I have ever seen in the NFL. He just didnt care. He could just as well have been riding a bike in the park it seemed no different to him.

    I know a lot of guy question Coples efforts but the guy showed up at the Senior bowl. Rex checked him out first hand.

    Also people forget about Gholston on draft day. We were almost forced to pick him. 6 blue chips and we were sitting at 6 with the pats behind us. They smokescreened us into thinking they would take him. Out of fear we took the chance and got burned.

    Coples was a guy the staff wanted.

    And another thing people act like he played bad his senior year. The guy still had ok stats with 7.5 sacks. If thats him half-assing it then I cant wait to see him once Rex gets a hold of him

  7. #7
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    They aren't even remotely comparable as players.

  8. #8
    The #1 knock on Gholston at Ohio State was that Gholston quit on plays as well, so saying Gholston always played hard is pretty laughable man.

    But that's not why Gholston failed in the NFL, nobody on the Jets would question Gholston's effort while he was here. One thing anybody with the Jets would tell you is that he worked hard for us.

    Gholston's major problem was that he was never able to grasp the mental side of the game, and no thats not calling him lazy or questioning his effort, it's saying he couldn't comprehend the responsibilities of a linebacker or his role within the defense. He always played tentative with us because he was never really quite sure if he was in the right spot. That's why he failed. Not because he didn't want it bad enough. That's just lazy talk by lazy people (Ironic, isn't it?)

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4450503]They aren't even remotely comparable as players.[/QUOTE]

    That's my point. Comparing apples to oranges that are being used in the same fruit salad.

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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4450503]They aren't even remotely comparable as players.[/QUOTE]

    Not at all.

    Except that they're both defensive ends with freakish athleticism who've had their motivation and desire openly questioned and were touted as boom or bust prospects.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Austin;4450518]Not at all.

    Except that they're both defensive ends with freakish athleticism who've had their motivation and desire openly questioned and were touted as boom or bust prospects.[/QUOTE]

    One has talent, the other relied on athleticism. Very different.

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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4450515]That's my point. Comparing apples to oranges that are being used in the same fruit salad.[/QUOTE]

    They played the same position in college. How is that apples to oranges?

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Ven0m;4450508]The #1 knock on Gholston at Ohio State was that Gholston quit on plays as well, so saying Gholston always played hard is pretty laughable man.

    But that's not why Gholston failed in the NFL, nobody on the Jets would question Gholston's effort while he was here. One thing anybody with the Jets would tell you is that he worked hard for us.

    Gholston's major problem was that he was never able to grasp the mental side of the game, and no thats not calling him lazy or questioning his effort, it's saying he couldn't comprehend the responsibilities of a linebacker or his role within the defense. He always played tentative with us because he was never really quite sure if he was in the right spot. That's why he failed. Not because he didn't want it bad enough. That's just lazy talk by lazy people (Ironic, isn't it?)[/QUOTE]

    That's very well put, Ven0m. I hadn't thought of it exactly that way before.

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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4450520]One has talent, the other relied on athleticism. Very different.[/QUOTE]

    This is a fair point (and the reason why in some ways Poe is a better comparison for Gholston) but after suffering through the Green Ghost, I think Jets fans are entitled to be concerned when they hear things like "he quit on his teammates" and he "doesn't really love football."

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    [QUOTE=tzinc;4450475]Gholston didn't take his last college season off. Coples did.

    Gholston always tried hard. Coples did not.

    Gholston wasn't voted the most likely DL bust. Coples was.

    Gholston didn't fall in the draft. Coples did.[/QUOTE]

    BS. you ought to do some research. He was changed from the left side to the right side. It took him time to adjust! He has a new DEC and HC. The whole team underachieved. BUT in the second half of the season the guy stood out! Try to be discerning and not a town crier! Look at Coples when he was on the left side which was familiar to him. The guy was awesome. You apparently want him to fail. He won't and I will tell you what sonny. Lets put some money on it! If you have the guts PM me and we will arrange it! I am sick and tired of people like you who do not do any reasearch before yapping! Put your money where your mouth is!

    You are on the clock........

    For what its worth I wanted either Barron or Ingram. I am happy with Coples especially after the way REX scouted the kid himself. He is not infallable but again, put your money where your mouth is.....

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Ven0m;4450508]The #1 knock on Gholston at Ohio State was that Gholston quit on plays as well, so saying Gholston always played hard is pretty laughable man.

    But that's not why Gholston failed in the NFL, nobody on the Jets would question Gholston's effort while he was here. One thing anybody with the Jets would tell you is that he worked hard for us.

    Gholston's major problem was that he was never able to grasp the mental side of the game, and no thats not calling him lazy or questioning his effort, it's saying he couldn't comprehend the responsibilities of a linebacker or his role within the defense. He always played tentative with us because he was never really quite sure if he was in the right spot. That's why he failed. Not because he didn't want it bad enough. That's just lazy talk by lazy people (Ironic, isn't it?)[/QUOTE]

    I think there's more to it than that... He struggled to even rush the edge on third downs... It wasn't just an OLB thing...

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Austin;4450518]Not at all.

    Except that they're both defensive ends with freakish athleticism who've had their motivation and desire openly questioned and were touted as boom or bust prospects.[/QUOTE]

    Dude, your just throwing out generalizations now.

    Guys like Julius Peppers and Jason Pierre-Paul had the same knocks against them. Even Mario Williams' motor was questioned coming out.

    Vernon Gholston never was able to grasp the mental aspect of the game and didn't have a mean bone in his body. Everything you read or hear about Coples is that he has good instincts, a good football IQ, and plays with a nasty demeanor. The only knock on him is that he doesn't go all out on every single down. Again, the same exact criticism of Peppers and Williams when they entered the draft.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Austin;4450524]This is a fair point (and the reason why in some ways Poe is a better comparison for Gholston) but after suffering through the Green Ghost, I think Jets fans are entitled to be concerned when they hear things like "he quit on his teammates" and he "doesn't really love football."[/QUOTE]

    I think there's a difference between the situation at North Carolina and the one Gholston was in at Ohio State (THE Ohio State University....my bad).

    Although I wanted Ingram or DeCastro, for the homer reasons, I can't be upset at this pick. I didn't know as much about Coples as those other players, but after I keep looking into this guy he seems like he's going to work out.

    I hope I'm right, and I hope the naysayers are wrong. The fact that Mangini supports the pick goes with the "great talent evaluator" that is Mangini.

    We'll see. We're all on the same team here, we argue about this stuff too much.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Austin;4450524]This is a fair point (and the reason why in some ways Poe is a better comparison for Gholston) but after suffering through the Green Ghost, I think Jets fans are entitled to be concerned when they hear things like "he quit on his teammates" and he "doesn't really love football."[/QUOTE]

    Can't disagree that there has to be a level of concern, but that goes with the territory when you're drafting at #16. Since by all accounts Coples has the potential and the talent to be the best defensive player in this draft, he obviously had to have some kind of baggage or he would have gone in the top 5. The other option in general terms is to take someone whose talent level puts him in the teens, but then the ceiling isn't as high as that of Coples. So it's pick your poison. I prefer the Coples pick, in large part because I defer to the experience of Rex to recognize defensive line potential and to know how to motivate defensive players.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Austin;4450527]I think there's more to it than that... He struggled to even rush the edge on third downs... It wasn't just an OLB thing...[/QUOTE]

    It's never really as simple as just pin your ears back and get a QB though. Even on a pass rush, you often have to contain the edge in case of sweeps or reverses, or just a particularly athletic QB. There may be a stunt on the defensive line on a given play. There's still some question about which gap you're supposed to be trying to penetrate on a given play.

    It's not entirely mental, his pathetic array of pass rush moves was a killer for him as well. He had no ability to shed a block because of it. But the most recurring theme of Gholston's Jets career wasn't lazyness, it was playing tentative.

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