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Thread: D dept. : 4-3 .... anyone ? ? ?

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    Question D dept. : 4-3 .... anyone ? ? ?

    saw this :


    ~ ~ Rotation of Devito Pouha Ellis in the Middle

    Also the possibility Pace could line up at DE as well when needed in a 4-3 defense keeping everyone fresh when playing teams that run the hurry up basicly wearing our bigger guys down.The Jets seem to be targeting smaller faster LB's and stocking up on DL which has 4-3 written all over it. If the Jets do not run more 4-3 I would say they drafted pretty bad

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    Can Demario Davis be the Anti-Gronk ?

    Last season Bart Scott came off the field for most passing situations, this year will Demario Davis replace Scott on those passing downs to help contain players like Rob Gronkowski? Brian Costello of the New York Post reports that could well be, according to Mike Pettine talking to press last night at the Match For Michael fundraiser.The Jets selected linebacker Demario Davis in the third round of the Draft, and part of the scouting report on him is he can cover tight ends. Pettine said it’s clear the team needs to stop the tight end to win the AFC East with Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez in New England.

    “If we want to win the division, we feel the division runs through Foxborough,” Pettine said. “We have to defend them. To me, that is overall. You saw the tight ends drafted. New England, I think, has set the trend for it and we have to respond to it.”

    I was curious to see how the Jets would try to counter the success of Tight Ends, and it looks to me like the Jets are going to apply a bracket approach between LBs and Ss to try to address the matter. Davis isn’t know for his zone coverage skills but he’s fast and has an explosiveness that could translate to his coverage skills in time. For now, the Jets might be best to use him to jam a TE at the line, then to pass him off to a safety or just run man-coverage with a potential Tight End and see how he fares that way.

    > http://www.thejetsblog.com/2012/05/0...he-anti-gronk/

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    As a rabid fan of 30+ years, I still never actually played the game and do not understand all the intricacies involved in the different schemes.

    I just hope Rex doesn't pull a Mangini/D'Antoni (make the players fit the scheme) but is flexible/humble enough to make the scheme fit the players.

    Yeah, I know -- "we already run a bunch of different fronts". That's great, but we're still considered a 3-4 team, and I don't know how much pride goes into that title.

    I read somewhere he switched to 4-3 in Baltimore once and they went 13-3, so if that's true there should be no issue in him running whatever would play to our greatest strengths (I just don't know what that is)

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    Rex always plays both 3 and 4 man fronts. His father practically invented the 4-6 so its not out of the ordinary to run multiple fronts. Add that with the fact that he's a D-Line guy its safe to say we'll be multiple.

    Petine and Rex like to disguise and confuse offenses. A 3-4 is what is mainly going to do that. Also we don't have good enough speed off the edge from the DE spot to run a successful 4-3 like the Giants do. The 4-3 is pretty concrete. Rex is too fancy and tricky and so is Petine to just line up and play it straight up trusting 4 guys to both the QB. We don't have that type of front line at all. Coples was the best 3-4 End in this draft especially against the run. Its not even close. Even an unmotivated Coples doesn't get pushed back. At the Senior Bowl no one could keep him from stuffing the run and he was even double teamed often. He's a hand full ... I expect him to play inside on passing downs cause he has the speed to turn outside on some stunts and beat guards with his shiftiness and on run downs he'll hold off the edge rotating with Devito and Big Mo and not letting speedy backs get the edge. Devito's great but he's an inside run stopper and doesn't seal the edge well. He gives you constant effort and Coples will feed off that but the speed, length, and agility Coples has makes it easy for him to seal the edge up front. He's strong enough to hold up the blockers for our LB's to make the plays. Stop talking about how bad or good we did in the draft without watching these guys even play a snap yet. Hell its too early to tell in the pre season and here it is in May people jumping the gun.
    Last edited by LadainianIMnotDONE; 05-03-2012 at 12:48 PM.

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    What This Defense Might Look Like in 2012 ?

    Even though the season is still a little over four months away, I want to take a look at how this defense might look this season.
    Before I post the starting 11, I do believe that the Jets will bring back Jim Leonhard back on a one year deal so here we go …

    DE – Quinton Coples
    DT – Sione Pouah
    DE – Muhammed Wilkerson
    OLB – Brian Thomas
    ILB – Bart Scott
    ILB -David Harris
    OLB – Calvin Pace
    CB – Antonio Cromartie
    SS – LaRon Landry
    FS – Jim Leonhard (not definite yet but most likely)
    CB – Darrelle Revis

    As we look at this starting eleven, there are two new pieces with Coples and Landry. There is no doubt about it, Coples will be starting this season. Two pieces that Jets fans are familiar with are Thomas and Leonhard. As we look at the defensive line, Rex must be doing a happy dance because there is depth. In addition to the starting three, you also have Mike Devito, Marcus Dixon, Jay Richardson(signed from Oakland), Kenrick Ellis and Martin Tevaseu. Now granted I do not believe that all of them will make the team however now there are several players Rex can take a look at during traning camp and the pre-season.Thomas is coming back on a one year deal after suffering a Achilles tear early last year and Leonhard is coming off a knee injury which ended his season. What I am very excited about with this defense is the speed that the Jets added during the draft. Coples is a big question mark but if there is one thing that he brings is his speed. I truly believe he will be a huge asset to Rex’s defense. In addition, the third round selection Demario Davis OLB, will be a huge upgrade to a LB core which was very slow last year. Davis will not be a starter right away but if Scott has a slow start, I can see Davis starting by week seven or eight.

    As we look at the CB spot we have the original starting two in Revis and Cromartie. Kyle Wilson will be playing the third CB spot. Also on the roster at CB are: Isiah Trufant, Julian Posey, Royce Adams and Ellis Lankster. I do believe the Jets will look to pick up a veteran CB along the way. The additions to Safety with the fourth round selection, Josh Bush as well as a big pickup in the seventh round with Antonio Allen, who I saw being drafted in the fourth round. The big x-factor in my opinion with this defense is LaRon Landry. When he was drafted out of LSU, this guy was amazing, he was flying all over the field with the Redskins. However, injuries over the past few years have caused his game to slip. If he can stay healthy, he can be a huge addition and upgrade to this defense.I do believe the re-signing of Leonhard would be crucal, not only for this year but years down the road. The young safety’s we have brought in are raw and need development. Leonhard can be a teacher to these young players during traning camp, pre-season and regular season.

    We have heard during the off-season that speed is something this team was looking to improve on. I do believe they have achieved that so far in the additions they have made so far. It will be very interesting and honestly I CAN’T WAIT to see what this defense will look like.

    > http://www.thejetsblog.com/2012/05/0...-like-in-2012/

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    The Jets defense has a new slogan this season ,
    one the players believe has the potential to radically alter their output on the field :

    "One step faster."

    It's a simple reminder, devised by defensive assistant and linebackers coach Bob Sutton. But it's also an effective one. Anxious to improve upon its play from last season, the Jets defensive players are fully buying into it.Nose tackle Sione Pouha -- who, along with Mark Sanchez, Aaron Maybin, Rex Ryan and defensive coordinator Mike Pettine attended a charity event for a fan in desperate need of a bone-marrow transplant last night -- said he's lost 4 to 5 pounds and hopes to lose about 10 more to get back to 330.But the team slogan goes beyond the physical, he said. "I think it applies physically and also mentally in any aspect of the game," Pouha said. " . . . For me, I just learned what some of our safeties do to help me understand what surrounds me."

    The coaching staff spent the past offseason searching for ways to improve the defense's production -- and the NFL draft this past weekend was a major step toward that goal. The Jets took four defensive players -- Quinton Coples, DeMario Davis, Josh Bush and Antonio Allen -- they all bring speed and athleticism to the defense.Pettine said their mission was to draft "explosive" athletes. "I think we accomplished our goal," he said. " . . . We need to get fast and athletic. The league is evolving that way; to be a pass-first league and we felt we were getting, for lack of a better phrase, a little dinosaurish inside."

    No one's more thrilled about the team's new rallying cry for team speed than Maybin, a situational pass-rusher who uses his burst off the edge."I love that [philosophy]. I love that," the linebacker said. "If you were looking at a player that marries up exactly with that kind of mentality, you're looking at him. That's my style of football."Jets sign kicker Brown. The Jets added kicker Josh Brown, who was released by the Rams. Ryan said Brown will be "excellent competition" for Nick Folk.

    > http://www.newsday.com/sports/footba...ster-1.3693497

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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCH View Post
    I just hope Rex doesn't pull a Mangini/D'Antoni (make the players fit the scheme) but is flexible/humble enough to make the scheme fit the players.
    I think part of what they're trying to do is find versatile guys, who can run multiple formations to (a) confuse opponents and (b) result in fewer substitutions when facing a hurry up offense.

    Rex doesn't usually ask guys to do something they're just not cut out to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesR View Post
    I think part of what they're trying to do is find versatile guys, who can run multiple formations to (a) confuse opponents and (b) result in fewer substitutions when facing a hurry up offense.

    Rex doesn't usually ask guys to do something they're just not cut out to do.
    agreed.
    rex is one of the better D coaches

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    In February 2011, in one of his first acts after taking over the 108th-ranked defense in the Football Bowl Subdivision, Arkansas State’s defensive coordinator, Dave Wommack, asked each of his players to fill out an eight-page questionnaire. One answer, written by a redshirt junior named Demario Davis, struck Wommack as particularly memorable: Davis vowed that the Red Wolves’ defense would finish among the top 25.Davis did not forget. In spring practice, he would visit Wommack’s office to tell him again. In training camp, he restated his guarantee. But during the season, Davis, an outside linebacker, recalibrated his expectations. He told Wommack that they needed to adjust their goals. They were not high enough. At the time, the defense ranked 22nd in the nation. It finished 15th.“I’ve coached a lot of places over the last 32 years,” Wommack said, “and I thought, man, this guy’s really got the whole package. He was the leader of our pack.”

    The Jets were moved to select Davis, who is 6 feet 2 inches and 239 pounds, in the third round of the draft for several reasons — his speed, his special-teams skills, his experience covering tight ends — but also because of his presence, a natural ability to lead through actions, words and force of personality. It shined through during his predraft interviews with scouts, coaches and front-office personnel at the Jets’ headquarters, and on Friday, the first day of rookie minicamp, they witnessed it on the field.After pursuit drills, Davis gathered the defense. He gave a brief pep talk. Then, at his cue, the players scattered. Coach Rex Ryan said Davis’s aura reminded him of Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis, who motivated Ryan to be a better coach.“I’m not saying he’s the leader Ray Lewis is,” Ryan said of Davis, “but there are some things even when he talks to you — wow. He’s really an impressive person.”

    Growing up in Mississippi, Davis found himself drawn to two players: Lewis and Lawrence Taylor. He knew that someday he would join them. An uncle asked Davis, then 6, what he wanted to be when he grew up. Davis said he would play in the N.F.L.“He never had a doubt,” Sue Magee, Davis’s mother, said. “I know it sounds crazy, but that’s how he’s always been.”At every level, Magee said, the future motivated Davis. At Brandon High School, Davis would enter the weight room or step onto the practice field and, after a workout or a drill, tell a coach, “That’ll make me good, but I want to be great.”Dan Davis (no relation), the former Brandon football coach, said: “Demario never wanted to get just a little bit ahead of everybody else. He wanted to get way ahead.”

    So he ran extra sprints. He lifted more weights. He policed the locker room, confronting teammates who did not share his commitment.“Don’t let it bother you,” Magee told him. “You want to play in the N.F.L. They don’t.”At which position, Davis did not care. He played mostly on offense, at receiver and tight end, and a bit at safety before switching to linebacker as a senior. Only two Division I teams, Southern Mississippi and Arkansas State, recruited him, for reasons no one seemed to know.“Could he have played at any SEC school? No doubt about it,” said Wommack, now the defensive coordinator at Mississippi.

    Arkansas State lacked the football tradition of Southern Miss, but to Davis it presented an opportunity to revive a program that had but one winning season since 1987. It happened his senior year, after the arrival of a new coaching staff, after Davis answered Wommack’s questionnaire.“The turnaround occurred quicker than it could have because Demario led it,” said Tom Allen, Davis’s position coach. “He was just an extension of our staff.”

    There was a saying at Arkansas State, “Before there’s a reality, there’s a mentality.” At 6 a.m. workouts, Davis would stand before his teammates and repeat it to them. He said that they would win the Sun Belt Conference, that they would play in a bowl game. He stayed on campus during the summer to work out. He spent so much time at the football offices that Wommack wondered whether he had been elevated to coach.If teammates loafed at practice, Davis challenged them. “Because who’s going to say anything back to Demario?” Allen said.

    The short answer : no one. Davis wanted a championship, and they wanted what he wanted. When Arkansas State won at Western Kentucky on a last-minute touchdown, Allen ran to Davis on the field. Davis was bawling. Allen hugged him. It was the team’s first conference win, in its first conference game. Arkansas State never lost, going 8-0 to win the Sun Belt, as Davis promised, and earn a berth in the GoDaddy.com Bowl against Northern Illinois, as Davis also promised.“There was no doubt that Demario was our emotional, physical and spiritual leader,” Allen said.

    The Jets suffered from a leadership void last season. They do not expect Davis to fill it, at least not yet. For now, he has a playbook to study, teammates to meet, adjustments to make.“You have to know how to follow before you can lead,” Davis said. “Right now, I’m in a following mode.”Ryan again compared Davis, to a young Bart Scott, the fiery linebacker who may be grooming his replacement this year. Davis has not met Scott. When he does, he said, he will watch. And listen. And learn. But he will always believe.

    > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/sp...1&ref=football

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadainianIMnotDONE View Post
    Rex always plays both 3 and 4 man fronts. His father practically invented the 4-6 so its not out of the ordinary to run multiple fronts. Add that with the fact that he's a D-Line guy its safe to say we'll be multiple.
    This. Plus it seems to be the trend in the NFL anyway... Teams you would consider 4-3 spend a lot of time in hybrid formations anyway (thinking Giants). There aren't many 4-3 teams left and other 3-4 teams (I'm thinking GB, NE) give multiple hybrid looks. Plus DE is not the strength of our front, it's the LB corps, so that dictates 3-4. The more interesting question is regarding having 5+ DBs in the base defense and taking a LB off the field. I think SF runs a lot of 3-3-5.

    A DE in a 4-3 has a lot of the same pass rushing properties as an OLB in a 3-4.

    IMO if 2011's trend of the tight end is more than a one year wonder, defenses will struggle to keep up for a little while as most LBs are too slow and DBs are too small. Plus, more and more teams are going to spread 3WR sets more of the time. I think we're going to see LB squeezed off the field to a degree.
    Last edited by SweetZombieJesus; 05-06-2012 at 10:41 AM.

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    New York Jets plan to use more '46' defense

    New York Jets first-year defensive line coach Karl Dunbar says the team plans to use more of Buddy Ryan's "46" defense next season, Jenny Vrentas of The Star-Ledger reports."We're going to play a lot of that 46 defense," Dunbar said on Wednesday. "You get in that 46 defense, you’re going to get a lot of one-on-one blocks, and when we put athletic guys on the field, bad things happen for the offense."

    The Jets have devoted considerable draft resources towards upgrading what was an aging defensive line. 2011 draft picks Muhammad Wilkerson and Kenrick Ellis each possess the size and athleticism to play the "5" technique (defensive end in a 3-4), "3" technique defensive tackle or nose tackle positions. The Jets then used their 2012 first round pick on Quinton Coples, a 6-foot-6, 285-pound lineman whose versatility allowed him to play both defensive end and defensive tackle at North Carolina, where he posted 17.5 sacks over the last two seasons.

    Dunbar thinks Coples will be "an awesome fit" in New York."I don't see a problem with that," Dunbar said of Coples' slight statistical decline in 2011. "I saw a great athlete, and he’s going to get a chance to show who he is. From the things I've seen in the three days of practice and mini-camp we had, I’m loving every minute."

    > http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...headline_stack

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    Karl Dunbar Excited to Utilize 46 Defense

    When Rex Ryan came to the Jets, he brought the vaunted 46 defense and the very man the 46 was named after (Jim Doug Plank) with him. Ryan has used it over the years for the Jets, but the personnel wasn’t always right. This year, it looks like the Jets think they have the horses to run (as Ryan apparently calls it) “daddy’s defense.”As the Jets search for ways to best defend the spread … could the somewhat counter-intuitive 46 be the answer? We might find out this year, as DL coach Karl Dunbar was explaining the projected use of the scheme this year by the Jets

    From Jenny Vrentas in the Star-Ledger :

    And one iteration that has Dunbar particularly excited? The 46 defense, invented by Buddy Ryan on the successful 1980s Bears teams and carried on by Rex Ryan. Dunbar said the Jets used the formation “a bunch” last year and plan to use it even more — “as much as we can” — in 2012.

    “We’re going to play a lot of that 46 defense,” Dunbar said with a grin. “You get in that 46 defense, you’re going to get a lot of one-on-one blocks, and when we put athletic guys on the field, bad things happen for the offense.”

    Thus the reason Ryan is getting back to getting more involved in defense as he re-works to add this package more seriously into the system. The 46 is going to be a great fit for the Jets this year thanks to new players like LaRon Landry, Demario Davis and Quinton Coples. The Jets have the secondary, have the linebackers and now with a four man front that could look match up players like Pace/Maybin/Thomas — Coples — Pouha/DeVito/Ellis — Wilkerson … the Jets will have the horses to take advantage from an interior and exterior of that defensive line. The front eight will also be able to effectively bump Tight Ends like Rob Gronkowski at the line and not overly sacrifice the overall pass rush for it – a big benefit if they can throw Gronk off his timing.

    Back to Dunbar.

    Dunbar explained that the “bear front” associated with the 46 defense gives offenses fits because the offensive linemen have to block defenders one on one, instead of double teaming or zone blocking. Passes come out more quickly as a result, and if the opponent does look to throw deep, Dunbar said the Jets have an advantage because of their two elite cornerbacks.Dunbar believes Coples is “an awesome fit” for the 46 defense. He said Coples could line up as a “3-technique,” which is over the outside shoulder of the guard, or as a defensive end. He also sees Coples used as a “wide nine,” a pure pass-rushing spot outside the tight end.

    This is a perfect example of Rex Ryan letting the players he has dictate the scheme he uses rather than the other way around as Mangini tried to do. Ryan is willing to use what he has to it’s best effect and it sounds like the best effect might be the 46. Using the 46 will help the Jets reach that goal this offseason … getting “one step faster” and also make their opponents effectively one step slower. The Jets bigs should now be able get to the QB more efficiently and slow Tight Ends (one of the biggest problems with the Jets defense in Ryan’s first three years) in their routes. The 46 blends their personnel so well and takes advantage of their skillsets … it could be really really fun to watch.

    For me, there’s just one big question mark remaining. The 46 puts pressure on the one-high safety and their coverage ability. It’s him who sits back and provides coverage help essentially on every 46 play. That players role will be more focused than a more versatile “up and back” safety, so in that way it’s good … but the Jets have yet to really define who that person will be. Eric Smith would be a bad choice. So will it be a healed Jim Leonhard? Will Kyle Wilson take on the role? Will Bush or Allen, one of the young rookies take the reins ?

    > http://www.thejetsblog.com/2012/05/1...ze-46-defense/

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    Dunbar compares Jets and Vikings DLs

    For a profile of new defensive line coach Karl Dunbar and his courageous stance against vitiligo, a rare skin disease, check out my story here. In my interview with Dunbar, we also talked football. Prior to the Jets, Dunbar spent six seasons as the Vikings' DL coach. In that span, the Vikings always had a terrific line, especially from 2008 to 2010. That's when they had the quarter of DE Jared Allen, DE Ray Edwards, DT Kevin Williams and DT Pat Williams. It was an awesome blend of speed and power, unleashed in a four-man front.

    The Jets have a long way to go before they're in that category. Plus, it's apples and oranges somewhat because the Jets employ a three-man line. Nevertheless, I asked Dunbar to describe any similarities."Here, we rely on our linebackers, Calvin (Pace) and (Aaron) Maybin and (Ricky) Sapp to be those outside rushers," Dunbar said. "What we've done here, to be comparable to Minnesota, we're very athletic inside with Muhammad (Wilkerson) and (Quinton) Coples and (Kenrick) Ellis. Sione (Pouha) reminds me a little bit of Pat Williams, that big, round, stocky body that can plug up that A gap and take on blockers."

    The addition of Coples will give them more flexibility, which means you could see a few more 4-3 looks than last season. But the Jets aren't going to dump the 3-4 and become a 4-3 team. You also might see more "46" fronts -- aka the "Bear" front. That's a 4-3 alignment, with a safety coming down as a linebacker -- an eight-man front. The Jets used it a little last season when facing run-heavy teams.Dunbar is familiar with the 46 defense, having played for Buddy Ryan on the Cardinals in 1995. Ryan is the father of the 46 defense (see the '85 Bears). Rex Ryan was the D-line coach on that Arizona team, so there's the connection. I wouldn't expect a lot of the 46 look. With so many teams using spread offenses, it would be hard to match up with a 46.

    But Dunbar definitely has that Ryan gene when it comes to defense. "Some of the terminology has changed over the years, but we have the same principles," he said. "We’re going to attack and get after you."

    > http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jet...nd-vikings-dls

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