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Thread: MAN vs ZONE BLOCKING

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=Tinstar;4467198]Chose this post because i believe u won't come at my neck with a response..Greene running at Iowa and in the NFL are 2 totally different things in that the players in the NFL are much faster than they are in college programs.At the pro level,most everyone has something that seperates them from your average college team.It maybe speed or it maybe smarts.Greene doesn't have the quickness to execute your NFL stretch run or off tackle run unless it's perfectly blocked.That's why he gets cut down for a lost or at the LOS for little to no gain so many times.

    As far as Ducasse and Griffin and Hunter goes,these players work best when they know exactly who it is they have to block.ON stunts,if u tell them to block the guys coming at them,he can be sure that guy will get block.These 3players have natural strength but are not pulling anywhere and blocking anyone with any effectiveness.As long as Sanchez is the QB,Holmes and Keller should be a big part of the Jets execution on offense.When Tebow becomes the QB,then Both Holmes and Keller need to take a seat and we need to have 2 TEs,an HBack and the RB on the field .[/QUOTE]

    All I did was ask a legitimate question.

  2. #22
    [QUOTE=TheMo;4467191]Zone and man typically refer to the running game more than pass pro. Plus it's not like zone really helped us either, Sanchez was getting murdered last year. Zone schemes tend not to be conducive with an Erhardt-Perkins offense that likes to push the ball down the field in the passing attack but rather quick strike simple WCO. Your post lacks context. Just like last year the offense was Sanchez and Schotty's fault, you can't blame the sacks all on Sparano and not the players he had.[/QUOTE]
    Maybe but the fins brought in a ton of free-agents for the o-line over Sparanos four years and they sxcked the last three years,even with Long.Sorry Sanchez

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=auctionking;4467306]Maybe but the fins brought in a ton of free-agents for the o-line over Sparanos four years and they sxcked the last three years,even with Long.Sorry Sanchez[/QUOTE]

    You shouldn't compare the Fish to the Jets .We drafted a franchise QB 4 yrs ago and they haven't had a decent QB since Dan Marino retired.The QB is supposed to be the difference maker,and that's why Peyton Manning is such a great QB and Tom Brady will always have the question of whether it was Belichek or Brady.What happen to the Colts when Manning missed a season Vs what happen to the Patriots when Brady missed a season speaks volumes.

    The Colts wwith the same team and coaching staff that won 11 games (+ or -) almost went without a win when Manning was injured.The Patriots on the other hand,took a vertual unknown(Cassell) put him behind center and never missed a beat.
    A good OL is required,don't get it twisted,but the QB makes the difference.

  4. #24
    [QUOTE=Tinstar;4467448]You shouldn't compare the Fish to the Jets .We drafted a franchise QB 4 yrs ago and they haven't had a decent QB since Dan Marino retired.The QB is supposed to be the difference maker,and that's why Peyton Manning is such a great QB and Tom Brady will always have the question of whether it was Belichek or Brady.What happen to the Colts when Manning missed a season Vs what happen to the Patriots when Brady missed a season speaks volumes.

    The Colts wwith the same team and coaching staff that won 11 games (+ or -) almost went without a win when Manning was injured.The Patriots on the other hand,took a vertual unknown(Cassell) put him behind center and never missed a beat.
    A good OL is required,don't get it twisted,but the QB makes the difference.[/QUOTE]
    I don't understand why your bring up the Qb when your talking about Oline blocking scheme. Just because you think you draft a franchise Qb means you actually drafted a franchise caliber qb(see jamarcus russell) M Sanchez in the regular season has been near the bottom throughout his three year career.

    Matt Moore just going by last year stats played at a much higher level than Mark Sanchez. [url]http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=MOO551757&player2=SAN091667&player3=null&player4=null&position=quarterback&playerOne=Matt+Moore&playerTwo=Mark+Sanchez&playerThree=Select+a+Player...&playerFour=Select+a+Player[/url]...


    Yes the Qb makes any offense go but if a Oline can't protect a franchise Qb how effective will that Qb be. See Tom Brady against Giants front four.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4467609]I don't understand why your bring up the Qb when your talking about Oline blocking scheme. Just because you think you draft a franchise Qb means you actually drafted a franchise caliber qb(see jamarcus russell) M Sanchez in the regular season has been near the bottom throughout his three year career.

    Matt Moore just going by last year stats played at a much higher level than Mark Sanchez. [url]http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=MOO551757&player2=SAN091667&player3=null&player4=null&position=quarterback&playerOne=Matt+Moore&playerTwo=Mark+Sanchez&playerThree=Select+a+Player...&playerFour=Select+a+Player[/url]...


    Yes the Qb makes any offense go but if a Oline can't protect a franchise Qb how effective will that Qb be. See Tom Brady against Giants front four.[/QUOTE]

    The reason i brought up the QB is because Offensive Football starts and End with the QB.Bringing JaMarcus Russell into the conversation is a joke because he never did anything that would remotely make anyone think he was a Franchise Caliber QB.He got drafted that high because he could throw the ball from 1 end of the field to the other,could move decent and had the right size.His tape showed a different story but that was the Raider way.

    In both the games the Giants won against the Patriots,the Patriots still had a chance to win and infact had the lead in the final minutes of the game.The OL won enough battles dispite the fierce Giant pass rush and Brady took advantage of his opportunities.All the Giants defense did was show the world just how poor the Patriots OL was and how Tom Brady makes them look so much better than they are.

  6. #26
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    Hmm, so do the Pats run a zone or man Oline scheme?

    I assume man is the most prevalant in the NFL?

  7. #27
    [QUOTE=gunnails;4467657]Hmm, so do the Pats run a zone or man Oline scheme?

    I assume man is the most prevalant in the NFL?[/QUOTE]

    I actually assumed the opposite, so am now intrigued to hear the answer . . .

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=Tinstar;4467198]Chose this post because i believe u won't come at my neck with a response..Greene running at Iowa and in the NFL are 2 totally different things in that the players in the NFL are much faster than they are in college programs.At the pro level,most everyone has something that seperates them from your average college team.It maybe speed or it maybe smarts.Greene doesn't have the quickness to execute your NFL stretch run or off tackle run unless it's perfectly blocked.That's why he gets cut down for a lost or at the LOS for little to no gain so many times.

    As far as Ducasse and Griffin and Hunter goes,these players work best when they know exactly who it is they have to block.ON stunts,if u tell them to block the guys coming at them,he can be sure that guy will get block.These 3players have natural strength but are not pulling anywhere and blocking anyone with any effectiveness.As long as Sanchez is the QB,Holmes and Keller should be a big part of the Jets execution on offense.When Tebow becomes the QB,then Both Holmes and Keller need to take a seat and we need to have 2 TEs,an HBack and the RB on the field .[/QUOTE]

    Good post tinstar. Learned a few things from this and your previous post.

  9. #29
    [QUOTE=Tinstar;4467652]The reason i brought up the QB is because Offensive Football starts and End with the QB.Bringing JaMarcus Russell into the conversation is a joke because he never did anything that would remotely make anyone think he was a Franchise Caliber QB.He got drafted that high because he could throw the ball from 1 end of the field to the other,could move decent and had the right size.His tape showed a different story but that was the Raider way.

    In both the games the Giants won against the Patriots,the Patriots still had a chance to win and infact had the lead in the final minutes of the game.The OL won enough battles dispite the fierce Giant pass rush and Brady took advantage of his opportunities.All the Giants defense did was show the world just how poor the Patriots OL was and how Tom Brady makes them look so much better than they are.[/QUOTE]

    Ozzie Newsome( ever hear of him. Had Jamarcus Russell the highest player he ever graded on his draft board. [url]http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-04-12/sports/bal-ravens-insider-jamarcus-russell-brian-billick-and-the-ravens-20120412_1_ravens-gm-jamarcus-russell-brian-billick[/url]. The point there is just because a team thought a Qb could be a franchise caliber, mean that player does turn into that franchise Qb.


    Tell me when has M Sanchez demonstrated he was a franchise Qb(guy stats have not been impressive at all in his first three years) Only time they tried to put the offense in his hands(last year) it blew up in their face. They are going back to making him a game manager again . Come on that doesn't sound like a franchise Qb does it.


    Again I don't care what Qb your talking about if a oline lets defenders get in a Qb face he not going to be that effective. M Sanchez couldn't even put up numbers when he had the best oline in the game. Now are you trying to say he can elevate the Jets oline by himself because he this franchise Qb.

    The stats last year don't support your position. How many times did M Sanchez get sacked in 2011( so what exactly has he shown that he knows how to get rid of the football or has a quick release)
    Last edited by Raider9175; 05-14-2012 at 03:14 PM.

  10. #30
    Going back to man, it would be ideal if Austin Howard and Robert Griffin could compete with Hunter and Brandon Moore, respectively, for spots, as Howard and Griffin give you the kind of bulk you need in man schemes. But frankly, I don't love the move. We have no proven speed, multi-cut backs. The zone scheme covered up this deficiency.

    To me, Schotty's failure was in not playing to the zone scheme's (and Sanchez's) strengths by using a simplified, quick-read offense, and featuring a lot of bootleg play-action passes etc.

  11. #31
    [QUOTE=gunnails;4467657]Hmm, so do the Pats run a zone or man Oline scheme?

    I assume man is the most prevalant in the NFL?[/QUOTE]

    It actually depends on what back was in there. The Pats will go back and forth. They actually ran more zone runs when Maroney and Morris were carrying the rock. I suspect that will be the same moving forward. They tend to adjust to the back. If Vareen can get/stay healthy, I suspect you'll see more zone blocking from the Pats again since Vareen is a cutback runner.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4467772]Ozzie Newsome( ever hear of him. Had Jamarcus Russell the highest player he ever graded on his draft board. [url]http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-04-12/sports/bal-ravens-insider-jamarcus-russell-brian-billick-and-the-ravens-20120412_1_ravens-gm-jamarcus-russell-brian-billick[/url]. The point there is just because a team thought a Qb could be a franchise caliber, mean that player does turn into that franchise Qb.


    Tell me when has M Sanchez demonstrated he was a franchise Qb(guy stats have not been impressive at all in his first three years) Only time they tried to put the offense in his hands(last year) it blew up in their face. They are going back to making him a game manager again . Come on that doesn't sound like a franchise Qb does it.


    Again I don't care what Qb your talking about if a oline lets defenders get in a Qb face he not going to be that effective. M Sanchez couldn't even put up numbers when he had the best oline in the game. Now are you trying to say he can elevate the Jets oline by himself because he this franchise Qb.

    The stats last year don't support your position. How many times did M Sanchez get sacked in 2011( so what exactly has he shown that he knows how to get rid of the football or has a quick release)[/QUOTE]

    You would want to know that i don't and never did consider Mark Sadchez a Franchise QB.I have certain standards and Sanchez doesn't fit them.You would also want to know that i would never have considered Brady or Montana Franchise QBs,which goes to prove the point that anyone can be wrong.

    Not about Sanchez thou,lol.

    If u come out of College after running a proset,with certain measureables where you called the plays, made adjustments at the LOS based on the defense u saw and elevated the play of those around u,you have my interest as a potential franchise Caliber QB.Now if u begin your pro career by exhibiting those same qualities and displaying the courage to stand in the face of a rush to deliver a pass,then i tap u on the shoulder with my sword and annoint u.

    Here's a hint for u .I never liked Peyton Manning,but i always loved Eli.Peyton is and always was a great student of the game who would set the kind of records he has .The problem is,he never won a darn thing even thou he had some of the best talent around him.Eli on the other hand,didn't have much,but you always knew he was in the game.Even when Eli sucked,and he did many times,his team always had a chance because of him.

    The QB makes the team period and if you don't have 1 you have a bunch of guys.In the Ravens super Bowl win,if Trent Dilfer doesn't make that play to Sharpe the Ravens probably don't win even with that all world defense.Even a bum like Dilfer,made a play.In the SB run of the Colts,Peyton Manning did his best to lose that opportunity.

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Tackleem;4467834]Going back to man, it would be ideal if Austin Howard and Robert Griffin could compete with Hunter and Brandon Moore, respectively, for spots, as Howard and Griffin give you the kind of bulk you need in man schemes. But frankly, I don't love the move. We have no proven speed, multi-cut backs. The zone scheme covered up this deficiency.

    [B]To me, Schotty's failure was in not playing to the zone scheme's (and Sanchez's) strengths by using a simplified, quick-read offense, and featuring a lot of bootleg play-action passes [/B]etc.[/QUOTE]

    The failure was in drafting a QB that didn't fit the offense u wanted to run in the area where u worked.

    But he speaks well and looks good in front of a camera so maybe he can help us sell PSLs.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=Tinstar;4467881]Even when Eli sucked,and he did many times,his team always had a chance because of him.[/QUOTE]

    The Giants defense was light years ahead of the Colts. And generally the Giants had a top 5 running game (this year notwithstanding) while the Colts were bottom 5. So Eli always had much more support than Payton.

  15. #35
    Call me a pessimist but I don't have high hopes for Sparano as an OC. This is all on players making plays. Sanchez has to be accurate and clutch, the line has to protect, and the running game has to be efficient. Sparano is not going to make any special calls or game plan at an elite OC level. He is who he is at this point of his career, he won't turn into Bill Walsh overnight. He'll demand guys to be physical and play hard nosed football. We can only help our players outplay the opposition. Defensively we'll be okay this year although the lack of a consistent pass rush is still an issue with me but our offense will simply rely on one guy .... Sanchez. He needs to have a pro bowl kind of season in year 4 or we're no better than a 9-7 team. Other teams have improved dramatically ... we're sitting here with still a weak receiving core, no improvement upfront, TE's still the same, and all that we have is a simple coaching change. Not sure we upgraded on offense at any position right away. If Sanchez steps up his game dramatically then its the one upgrade that improves the entire offense.

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