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Thread: WSJ Article: Tebow? Sanchez? How About Both?

  1. #1

    WSJ Article: Tebow? Sanchez? How About Both?

    A very interesting read:

    [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303448404577408561366033878.html[/url]

    [quote]

    [SIZE="4"][COLOR="black"][B]Tebow? Sanchez? How About Both?[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [B][I]With Two Quarterbacks, the Jets Could Try the Unthinkable: Line Them Both Up in the Backfield [/I][/B]

    FLORHAM PARK, N.J.—Of all the NFL storylines that are certain to unfold this season, the question of how the Jets plan to divide the quarterback duties between Mark Sanchez and backup Tim Tebow stirs the most curiosity.

    Some reports have suggested that Tebow may serve as a special-teamer. Betting lines concerning whether Tebow gets a shot as the starting quarterback already exist. And some players around the league have already said they expect him to eventually win the job.

    The Jets have protected their plans for Tebow like a running back would a pigskin, saying only that the second-stringer would play anywhere between one and 20 snaps per game.

    The prevailing assumption has been that Tebow will only play when he's coming in for Sanchez. [COLOR="Red"]But what if the Jets decide to use both players? At the same time. In the backfield.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR="Red"]"Man, I'd probably want to call a timeout," said linebacker Josh Mauga, who exhaled deeply after being asked to imagine having to line up against such a formation. "I think it'd confuse everybody if they lined up that way. I don't think anyone's ever really seen it before."[/COLOR]

    The notion of using two natural passers in the same backfield simultaneously—which the Jets have not discussed publicly as a possibility—is incredibly rare, and almost unheard of at the pro level. A growing number of high-school programs have used variations of an offense called the A-11, which features two quarterbacks lining up behind the center. The practice of using two quarterbacks at the same time is rarer in college, though the University of Michigan, with speedy quarterbacks in Denard Robinson and Devin Gardner, did it sparingly last season.

    Some analysts thought the Philadelphia Eagles might try the idea in 2009, when they had both Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick. But they never ended up sharing the backfield, according to Pro Football Focus, which analyzes each play in every game. They did have nine snaps together, but always with one quarterback behind the center and the other split out as receiver. Other teams also had two quarterbacks play simultaneously, but never with both behind the center.

    The mass chaos that might stem from such a play call is part of the reason the Jets acquired Tebow. They could consider giving a two-quarterback formation a try, as the Wildcat alignment—which gives players like Tebow the option of throwing, running or pitching the ball to someone else—has become dated. According to Stats LLC, teams picked up just 3.8 yards per carry using the Wildcat in 2011, down considerably from the 5.2-yard average in 2008.

    Unlike the Wildcat, with a simultaneous two-quarterback system, [COLOR="Red"]"you wouldn't be able to prepare for it because no one's ever seen it on film," star cornerback Darrelle Revis said, adding that the defense would be on high alert for a trick play.[/COLOR]

    [COLOR="Red"]"My first thought would be, 'Something crazy's about to happen,'" said safety Eric Smith. "If we see them both of them in the backfield, we'd want to somehow get more defensive backs in to protect against the pass." But there wouldn't be enough time to make such a switch, he said.[/COLOR]

    Tebow said it'd be interesting to see what opposing defenses do when he takes the field, adding that "we don't even necessarily know how we are going to attack people yet."

    The Jets picked up three players in the draft—receiver Stephen Hill, running back Terrance Ganaway and guard Robert Griffin—who spent considerable time blocking in option-oriented offenses. It led to speculation that they were bulking up on players that would work well with Tebow, something general manager Mike Tannenbaum called a "coincidence."

    Line coach Dave DeGuglielmo said he wasn't sure how blocking assignments would change when Tebow plays. The team is trying to install a new offense, and offensive coordinator Tony Sparano is still deciphering what he'll use from his "big box of goodies" in terms of playcalls involving the quarterback.

    "About 90% of the offense is standard professional football offense. Then there's 10% of this thing that could be very effective and fun for the [fans]," he said. "But if [that package of plays] is drastically different, that could be a problem. We're trying to mesh the two worlds so it's an easy transition."[/quote]

    Will be fun and exciting watching things unfold this year.

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4470766]A very interesting read:

    [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303448404577408561366033878.html[/url]



    Will be fun and exciting watching things unfold this year.[/QUOTE]

    100% agree!

    Good or bad, it will be exciting.
    IMHO Sparano is on the spot to be creative without being complicated with 2QB's on the field.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4470766]

    Some analysts thought the Philadelphia Eagles might try the idea in 2009, when they had both Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick. But they never ended up sharing the backfield, according to Pro Football Focus, which analyzes each play in every game.

    [/QUOTE]

    Andy Reid is smart enough to know gimmicky offenses do not work in the NFL.

  4. #4
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    How about neither?

    :cool:

  5. #5
    .."The Jets picked up three players in the draft—receiver Stephen Hill, running back Terrance Ganaway and guard Robert Griffin—who spent considerable time blocking in option-oriented offenses. .."

    What about the rugby player ? Hayden Smith is a bull..I would love to see Sanchez, Tebow and Smith in the backfield..

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=GreenGeek;4470854]100% agree!

    Good or bad, it will be exciting.
    [B]IMHO Sparano is on the spot to be creative without being complicated with 2QB's on the field[/B].[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you 100%

    My only concern was that Miami fans had only one real complaint when it came to coach Sprags: he wasn't or isn't that creative.....

    I am just hoping they are wrong on this and that the Jets FO and Rex have it right this time.

  7. #7
    [img]http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/uh65410,1283184744,mega_facepalm0.jpg[/img]

  8. #8
    [QUOTE]"About 90% of the offense is standard professional football offense. Then there's 10% of this thing that could be very effective and fun for the [fans]," he said. "But if [that package of plays] is drastically different, that could be a problem. We're trying to mesh the two worlds so it's an easy transition." [/QUOTE]


    This is what catches my eye the most. What is the point of this extra 10%? If the 90% is working well, why throw the wrench in? There's all of this talk about the simplification of the offense, making assignments easier to understand for the players and hopefully making them more effective, and then there's an extra set of plays with a possible QB-hydra they want to insert into the rhythm of that offense that complicates things ten times over.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4471299]This is what catches my eye the most. What is the point of this extra 10%? If the 90% is working well, why throw the wrench in? There's all of this talk about the simplification of the offense, making assignments easier to understand for the players and hopefully making them more effective, and then there's an extra set of plays with a possible QB-hydra they want to insert into the rhythm of that offense that complicates things ten times over.[/QUOTE]

    Here's the breakdown of how our offense is going to work:

    % of offensive plays with different QB's -

    Sanchez 40% (mostly 2nd and 3rd down passing plays)

    Tebow 40% (mostly 1st and 2nd down running plays, he's also bringing back ironman football as he will also be our starting Free Safety)

    Kerley 10% (he'll be the new Brad Smith 16.9 ypc stud wildcat reverse of all trades)

    McElroy 5% (once we're down by +3 tds in the 4th quarter we'll need this beast to run our offense in garbage time)

    Brad Smith 3% (after Buffalo cuts him we'll need a 3rd string wildcat qb)

    Brett Ratliff 2% (have him throw a deep bomb to Clowney running a streak downfield once we're down by 20 pts so we can get some instant offense)

  11. #11
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    If the Jets still had Hackett, imagine the "stew" he could make now ...

  12. #12
    Using Tebow and Sanchez in the A11 would actually be very interesting - except we don't have the other personnel to run it (i.e. offensive linemen who might also be competent WRs) and the loophole that allowed it in highschool doesn't exist in the NFL.

    Other than that, it's a great plan.

    Here's some info on the A11:

    [QUOTE]The most striking characteristic of the A-11 is its use of an "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emory_and_Henry_College#Athletics"]Emory & Henry[/URL]"-style spread formation,[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense#cite_note-3"][4][/URL] with the players on the line of scrimmage spread across the field as if they were wide receivers. In conventional formations (including the Emory & Henry), five of these players are [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_linemen"]offensive linemen[/URL]. In the A-11, however, players who play any position may be stationed across the line.
    [B]This was possible because, at the time the A-11 offense was created, a loophole existed in the high school rule books that allowed teams in a "scrimmage kick" (i.e., a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_%28football%29"]punt[/URL] or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_goal_%28American_football%29"]field goal[/URL]) formation to be exempted from numbering requirements. Instead of including five offensive linemen who wear uniform numbers in a specific range and who are obviously ineligible to receive a pass, any player wearing any number can be used anywhere on the field. Since there were no restrictions concerning when the "scrimmage kick" exemption could be used or not used, the A-11 offense could be used on every down.[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense#cite_note-NPR-4"][B][[/B]5][/URL]
    To use the scrimmage kick formation exemption, the player who receives the snap (presumably the kicker or placeholder) must stand at least seven yards behind the line of scrimmage. The A-11 places the quarterback in that position, which becomes a deep [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_formation"]shotgun formation[/URL]. This has the effect of reducing the need for offensive line protection since defensive players have more ground to cover before reaching the passer. The offense also places an additional passing back (similar to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_offense"]wildcat offense[/URL]) in the backfield next to the quarterback, creating the potential for either one to run or pass the ball.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense#cite_note-NPR-4"][5][/URL]
    [B]The A-11 still must abide by rules which cap the number of eligible receivers at five (maximum six if the quarterback hands the ball off or laterals to an ineligible receiver who then passes the ball). However, it is unclear which players will be eligible until just before the snap, making pass coverage more difficult; the eligible numbered players could interchange between eligible and ineligible positions after each play. The use of eligible numbers on every player on the field, coupled with the deep position of the quarterback, forces more of the defense personnel to go into "pass defense" mode and puts less focus on run defense or pass rushing.[/B][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense#cite_note-espn-1"][/URL]

    . . .

    [B]NFL[/B]

    [B]The offense is not currently legal in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League"]NFL[/URL][/B].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense#cite_note-11"][12][/URL] [B]The main problem is the league's rules concerning the required jersey numbers of players at different positions. Players who usually play at positions that are usually ineligible to receive a pass must declare themselves as eligible receivers to the referee if they will be lining up at an eligible position in a formation. The referee then announces their eligibility before the play, negating the surprise factor of not knowing which players may go out for a pass. [/B]The Emory & Henry formation and two-quarterback system are both legal, though they are rarely used.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense#cite_note-12"][/URL]
    [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense[/url]

  13. #13
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    If it isn't Tebow, it's Sanchez. Tebow and Sanchez! Sanchez and Tebow! These two quarterbacks are driving me crazy.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4470862]Andy Reid is smart enough to know gimmicky offenses do not work in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

    Yea...he's had so many Super Bowl wins....

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    An interesting read? The A-11?? Yeah thats great and all except it used a loophole and can't be run in the NFL.. and its used by High School teams to overcome limitations in personnel versus that of their competition (i.e., size). This is almost as bad as the people calling for Rockne box when we signed Tebow.

    I really don't understand why an NFL team would ever consider a 2 QB formation. The value of a mobile QB like TimmyT is the dual threat to run/pass from his positon and make it 11 on 11. IMO the reason he had some limited success in Denver was because he was taking every snap and the opposition had to be prepared for the option O when they ran it... opening things up for their base O.

    If you have 2 QBs on the field at the same time you are putting yourself at a disadvantage versus the D the moment the ball is snapped unless you are going really crazy and using your QB1 in a manner that I don't think anyone would envision us doing.

    Surely that can't be your strongest package to run or pass.. so if Sanchez hands the ball to Tebow and Tebow can run or throw, what do we do with Mark? or if we snap the ball to Tebow instead of Mark? Do we want our QB1 running patterns or blocking while our QB2 is running/throwing the ball? In that scenario if Tebow is throwing and Mark is doing exactly what??.. you have now made it 9 on 11... certainly not the recipe for mass chaos.

  16. #16
    how'd his dream team work out? he's smart enough to know that so many superstars can't co-exist.

    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4470862]Andy Reid is smart enough to know gimmicky offenses do not work in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

  17. #17
    Tebow :yes:

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Rock48nj;4471610]An interesting read? The A-11?? Yeah thats great and all except it used a loophole and can't be run in the NFL.. and its used by High School teams to overcome limitations in personnel versus that of their competition (i.e., size). This is almost as bad as the people calling for Rockne box when we signed Tebow.

    I really don't understand why an NFL team would ever consider a 2 QB formation. [COLOR="Red"][B]The value of a mobile QB like TimmyT is the dual threat to run/pass from his positon and make it 11 on 11.[/B][/COLOR] IMO the reason he had some limited success in Denver was because he was taking every snap and the opposition had to be prepared for the option O when they ran it... opening things up for their base O.

    If you have 2 QBs on the field at the same time you are putting yourself at a disadvantage versus the D the moment the ball is snapped unless you are going really crazy and using your QB1 in a manner that I don't think anyone would envision us doing.

    Surely that can't be your strongest package to run or pass.. so if Sanchez hands the ball to Tebow and Tebow can run or throw, what do we do with Mark? or if we snap the ball to Tebow instead of Mark? Do we want our QB1 running patterns or blocking while our QB2 is running/throwing the ball? In that scenario if Tebow is throwing and Mark is doing exactly what??.. you have now made it 9 on 11... certainly not the recipe for mass chaos.[/QUOTE]

    WRT 11 on 11, ummm, let's see. Sanchez split out wide, Tebow in the gun with a RB standing to his right. Tell me, if you are on the defense, are you going to put someone out there covering Sanchez ? I'm pretty sure you will, and if so, that still makes it 11 on 11. If you don't put someone out there, we'll just have Sanchez do an 8-10 yard route, catch the ball, then step out of bounds. After about the 3rd or 4th time, and after moving the ball 30 - 40 yards down field, maybe you might move someone out there :)

    Or hey, maybe Tebow is the one who would motion out wide, then Sanchez could throw the ball to him.

    Or maybe a direct snap to Sanchez, a handoff to Tebow who then passes to Hill streaking down the sideline ?

    There's a ton of different things that can be done, and many of them would be "regular NFL plays" too. One more that just crossed my mind. Full house backfield. Sanchez in the gun, Tebow to his left, Green to his right. What's the defense going to prepare for ?

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=detjetsfan;4471310]
    Brett Ratliff 2% (have him throw a deep bomb to Clowney running a streak downfield once we're down by 20 pts so we can get some instant offense)[/QUOTE]

    Nobody covers the Clown!

  20. #20
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    Hopefully Sanchez maturity level has risen since he acted like a total idiot on Hard Knocks, but I doubt it. From what Revis said about Tebow, Sanchez must be a piss poor leader. I want Tebow Time from the start.

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