... this is what i hope for & believe will happen ...
... all well & good to hope hunter can improve under the new style ... maybe he was a step slow with speed rushers because he was thinking too much ... i wouldn't want to "bet the house" on it though ... i'm more hopeful that simiplifying what he needs to think about will help vlad ... he certainly should have a lot of hand holding and personal attention this camp ... while i can hope that he can finally overcome his learning curve ... i still don't want to go into the season without an average/even below average vet on the roster at RT ...
Really, the fan panic about the Ol is ridiculous, this is the same unit that performed and blocked for the team during their AFCCG run in 2010, why is it so hard to understand for so many of you that the problems are not all because of the individual players on the OL?
The team didn't address the RT situation, because they believe in what they have on the roster now to 1. turn it around, or 2. emerge, both in the case of Hunter and Ducasse. In Hunter's case, he's proven he can do it, he has the physical ability to do it, this isn't like the Jets S position in that they serverely needed to upgrade the talent, the talent is there, the performance and/or the inexperience is the issue. Thet Jets were NEVER going to invest big on the OL unless it was in the first round and the draft fell that way, and it probably would have been at OG since there were no OT's worthy of taking in the first round over the other talent available in their slot. It would have been fiscally irresponsible for the Jets to dump another high round pick, a lot of money at the position with the talent they already have.
Teams don't have first round picks at all 5 positions, it's a balancing act and there has to be balance in the construction of the roster at the position while preserving their cap structure and distribution relative to the rest of the roster at other positions.
The team believes Hunter has the talent, there will be a change in philosophy instead, to me, that is what the reason was last year, and all we have to do is compare last year to the year before that. Philosophy, players under performing, lacking talent at blocking TE, regression of performance and change of talent at WR that did not stretch the field and make the Jets a significant threat in the passing game.
Looking at last year's Jets team, their issues on offense, seeing how players under performed, injuries on the OL at TE, which had a huge impact, then the discussions about Sanchez and some are giving up on the player and automatically assume he had a bad year last year compared to the year before last, statistically, that isn't even true, the team regressed, not Sanchez, his performance actually improved, STATISTICALLY, and his stats improved with LESS talent at WR, and a dysfunctional offense due to rift with the coaches and philosophy. A rather amazing stat when you take the time to review what happened last year, and compare it to the year before.
This doens't all suggest that Sanchez doesn't need to improve, he definitely does, it just proves that he definitely can and probably will, the nonsense about work ethic, and the rest of it is pure media driven crap, and the panic about the OL is equally a bunch of crap, the team definitely has talent, Hunter included, can he improve his play, can he bounce back, and will it also happen because of a change in the style of play and coaches who will do a better job of helping the pass protection to improve by making changes in how they play schematically? I think this is what the team is banking on. People need to realize the team didn't address RT, because the Jets dont' think the issue is with talent.
What Jets fans are missing is that they want a deep cover safety and think that will be the person covering Gronk and Hernandez. When in reality a lot of times it would be a LB or the safety that is closer in the box. There really wasn't any safety out there that was worth big money, Reggie Nelson would have been a ball hawk in the middle, but does he really help with TE's? Nelson wasn't worth big money anyways. Landry and Bell are big guys that can lay the wood, if Landry is healthy he will be good.
RT, we really need Wayne Hunter to play like he did in 2010. He has shown signs of being a quality OT. He shutdown some great pass rushers before, he won't be in as many 1 on 1 situations like he was with Schotty. The Dolphins used more max protections than we did. Maybe things will work out, maybe Vlad Ducasse steps up in his first full offseason with the team and can take the RT spot? Or maybe Wayne steps up and gets it done. There are teams that start awful linemen, I think that as long as the rest of the OL steps up we will be fine. Because last season it wasn't just Wayne that sucked, Brick had a down year and Moore had a down year. I expect Brick to bounce back to top form, I hope that Moore can give us another good season in his contract year, hes not coming off of a injury this year so he should be stronger.
Agreed on the post. We've so far done little to nothing to address our RT position. The new Italian OL squad are putting an awful lot of confidence in Ducasse and Hunter at this time...it remains to be seen if we make an free agent pick ups... players cuts etc
Since Ray has told me my job is to be negative, I won't disappoint. Here are some points that would lead me to believe that the regression of the the Jets OL is going to continue. It was a top 3 OL in 2009, a top 5 OL in 2010, and the 12th best OL in 2011.
1. Wayne Hunter is what he is. Somehow some people think that going into his NINTH year in the league, he's somehow going to reinvent himself into a quality RT. He's a career back up who never started more than 1 game in a season until Woody got hurt in 2010.
2. Yes he might have played well in the 4 games he started that year, but clearly over the course of 16 games he was exposed in 2011.
3. Ducasse WAS drafted with the idea he'd be a G. That's what the scouting reports said before the draft. Most liked his size and strength at G, but felt he didn't have the feet to play T in the NFL. NOTHING in his brief forays at RT would make anyone believe that those reports were wrong.
4. But unlike Hunter, Duccasse DOES at least have the "potential" to improve, but he'd probably be better served going back to G. He also MIGHT be one of those who would be better served playing in a man blocking system
5. While Hunter became a scapegoat, not all the problems on the OL can be pinned to him alone. D'Brick had a horrible year. He was never a great run blocker, but he HAD the reputation of being an elite pass blocker. Not last season. But until he proves it was only a hiccup and NOT a trend, for the first time in a long time the Jets have a question mark at LT.
6. There are some here who are hoping that the move from a "zone blocking" system to a "man blocking" system will help Wayne Hunter....and it may. at almost 350 lbs, he is a big physical presence. HOWEVER, it may have the opposite effect on D'Brick. His is a smaller (relatively), more athletic T, who was well suited for a zone blocking system. Never known for his physicality, D'brick might not thrive as well in a new system.
7. Slauson is truly "just a guy". He's a serviceable starter, but would be a better back up. He's a guy good enough to start, but one you're always looking to upgrade. Also he's played all his football life in Callahan's blocking system at Nebraska and with the Jets. It will be interesting to see if the "new blocking system" will help or hurt him.
8. Brandon Moore HAS been a great asset to the Jet OL, but he showed some wear and tear last season as well, and will be 32 camp opens. That's not ancient for an OLman, but you have to worry about if his recent injuries have slowed him down.
9. And here is the most critical issue. Your depth. None of your current back ups have ever started an NFL game. Few have played anything more than token snaps in a real NFL game. The Jets have been extraordinarily lucky with OL injuries. Not just last season, but the last 3 seasons. Last season the Jets OL starters only missed 3 games. Compare that to the 32 games lost by the Pats OL starters
Imagine losing D'Brick for any length of time. Who is HIS back up. Look at what happened to the OL when Mangold went down for JUST 2 games. So while the biggest concern among Jet fans seems to be RT (and justly so), almost none of you seem to care that the FO did NOTHING to address the utter lack of experienced depth along the entire OL. Maybe the anonymous group that get mentioned with glowing praise, can do the job. I don't know, and neither do you, or the Jets FO. If the injury pendulum ever starts to swing back to what the rest of the league has to deal with, you are going to have to find out.
Picture that OL if the Jets have to deal with 32 games lost to starters, or what the Bills had to go through, or the Steelers. It could be ugly.
BTW-part of that lack of experienced depth is due to the cap restraints the Jets are currently under.
ONE POSITIVE NOTE - Its still early and as I've mentioned before, you never know if some anonymous signing between now and September might prove to be golden. 5 days before the season started the Pats signed Brian Waters, and Pats fans universally yawned. By January he was a first team All Pro, and the team would have be screwed without him. He was the only starter to play all 16 games.
So while the situation may look bleak, help COULD be on its way.
Last edited by patsfanken; 05-20-2012 at 12:31 AM.
How can somebody such an arrogant blowhard, and be so wrong?
The bold parts, especially...
Ducasse was drafted because of his potential and upside, he can play both OG and OT, he has the athleticism to play OT, and the power to play both.
Slauson has been a lot more than servicable, you just know what you're talking about.
Most "depth" players are players who haven't started.
Stop trying to impress everybody, you're failing miserably.
Last edited by Ray Ray19; 05-20-2012 at 01:21 AM.
That clearly isn't the strength of the oline(pass blocking) as that oline is more suited for run blocker.
When your a offense that run first and you are able to establish that running game it makes it easier for those guys on the oline in pass protection. Reason being you never get in known passing downs and eventually from pounding on those pass rushers in the running game , you slow them down big time rushing the Qb. You throw in the fact that Dbrickshaw Fergurson(Jets best pass blocker) had a down year and that omnly compounded the situation.
JMO The Jets oline + offense effectiveness won't come down to who playing Rt . IT will come down how successful Jets running game is. The Jets are able to establish a top rushing attack in 2012 they will be fine.
That running game falters and this oline can again crumble like a house of cards. This oline doesn't want to get in too many known passing downs. That running game great and it opens up the passing game to be successful- Those play action deep balls to their big fast deep threat will be there and successful if that running game working.
BTw last point No one would consider Alan Faneca or Damien Woody great in pass protection. You use them right and that weakness isn't as glaring. (same with Hunter and Slauson) The Jet ever want to get the best out OF Sanchez and Hill, they eventually are going to have to upgrade the oline in pass protection. (get some more olineman that are better blocking for the pass)
Last edited by Raider9175; 05-20-2012 at 06:43 AM.
You mean the same OL that LOST the AFCC?
Funny you don't remember how Sanchez ate grass twice in three plays, including the strip-6 that ended it all.
Funny you don't remember how Sanchez hobbled off the field holding his elbow after Ike Taylor paved him - by blowing past Brick untouched.
Then 2011 began with the same edge blitz and the same result, no?
Seriously, I wonder if you (and others) watch the games or just imagine them in your head.
WTF were you looking at?
What makes ANYTHING I said "arrogant". Its my OPINION, based on observation and the FACTS at hand. I can only guess that the definition of "arrogance" in Ray Ray world is anything that YOU disagree with.How can somebody such an arrogant blowhard, and be so wrong?
Vlad was drafted to be a guard. The proof of that was that was where the Jets "played" him his entire first year. BTW "played" is in parenthesis because he wasn't good enough to actually play in gamesDucasse was drafted because of his potential and upside, he can play both OG and OT, he has the athleticism to play OT, and the power to play both.
Also the Pats were looking for OLmen in 2010 and Ducasse was someone Pats draftniks followed. Many though he was a nice G prospect in the 2nd to 4th rounds. I have never criticized the Jets for the pick, even in the 2nd round. Its just that it hasn't worked out. Deal with it. It happens.
He was only moved to OT when Woody went down, and has remained their ONLY because the Jets haven't brought anyone else in to play OT. But even YOU can't be THAT delusional to say that in his very few snaps he's gotten at OT, you can't see what all the scouting reports pointed out.
My knowledge of Slauson comes from stats, the 4 or 5 Jet games I see each year, and mostly from observations by fans here who follow the Jets more closely than I. If you believe he's a "beast", then I respect your opinion, even though I disagree.Slauson has been a lot more than servicable, you just know what you're talking about.
NO that's wrong, just look at the Pats. Right now the Pats could lose all of their starters and replace them with someone who has at least started a few regular season NFL games. The Jets can't replace even ONE. That's not depth. That's a wish and a prayer.Most "depth" players are players who haven't started.
Actually based on the feedback so far.....I haveStop trying to impress everybody, you're failing miserably.
BTW- the purpose of the post isn't necessarily to have people agree with me, but more to spark a discussion of the situation based on what I've written. You were free to disagree. But since you merely dismissed all the points by calling me an arrogant blowhard, instead of debating specifics. I can only guess you aren't up to the task.
Thanks for participating and come again.