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Thread: Addressing Safety vs. Not Addressing RT

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=Austin;4472287]Something I was thinking about...

    Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.)

    The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too.

    RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter.

    It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision.

    Anyone else oddly encouraged?[/QUOTE]

    While reading your post, I was expecting you to blast the Jets FO for not addressing the RT position this off season, but was pleasantly surprised when you didn't. Yes, I too feel like the FO is confident with the Hunter/Ducasse situation, and that their problems are correctable with the new Offensive coaches.

    The funny thing is that if we as fans learned the Jets acquired a 6-5 320 lb Tackle, in the prime of his career, who had started playoff games, was athletically gifted, and was great in the Locker room, we would be ecstatic!!

    Maybe we need to give Hunter a chance. New year, new OC & OL coach, witha new Offensive philosophy.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=CTJets69;4472329]
    3. Continuity on the O-Line. At the very worst, Hunter starts, and then you at least have the familiarity between the group.
    [/QUOTE]

    I am encouraged. Hunter blew it last year for the most part, but he did flash on occasion as well. But the O-Line is all about continuity. Can't sign a vet who was cut in July-August and expect great things.

  3. #23
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    Austin is expressing my go-to default: If the front office isn't addressing what appears to be a glaring need, than the need is probably not as glaring as it appears -- all else being equal.

    That may sound naive and overtrusting but it is also the most rational default position to account for the fact that the FO has much more information than we do.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=BamaJets;4472442]I am encouraged. Hunter blew it last year for the most part, but he did flash on occasion as well. But the O-Line is all about continuity. Can't sign a vet who was cut in July-August and expect great things.[/QUOTE]

    I think guys replacing Eric Smith are clearly better players with more upside (in Landry's case). However, at RT the available FA's were either just as bad as Hunter, injury plagued or too expensive. Its not like the Jets would have passed on a clear upgrade over Hunter if it was within their cap space. But why replace Hunter with a player another team thinks is their weakness?

    At least with Hunter he has chemistry with the rest of the O-line.

  5. #25
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    The way they are going to fix RT whether it is hunter, ducasse of austin is to add a TE to help out.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Austin;4472287]Something I was thinking about...

    Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.)

    The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too.

    RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter.

    It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision.
    [/QUOTE]


    Here is something a lot of you guys dont get.
    You keep implying that Jim Leonard is being replaced because of the quality of his on-field play.
    You could not be farther from the truth.

    He is being replaced because of injury issues AND NOTHING ELSE.
    Rex still loves this guy.
    I lot of Jet fans improperly lump Leonard together with Eric Smith.

    Smith just plain sucks in coverage, and is slow as molasses. Leonard may be small & injury-prone, but he can play ball in the NFL.
    There is a huge difference in talent between these two...

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=Baddniss;4472464]Here is something a lot of you guys dont get.
    You keep implying that Jim Leonard is being replaced because of the quality of his on-field play.
    You could not be farther from the truth.

    He is being replaced because of injury issues AND NOTHING ELSE.
    Rex still loves this guy.
    I lot of Jet fans improperly lump Leonard together with Eric Smith.

    Smith just plain sucks in coverage, and is slow as molasses. Leonard may be small & injury-prone, but he can play ball in the NFL.
    There is a huge difference in talent between these two...[/QUOTE]

    I definitely agree that the Leonard situation is due to injury and not because the staff feels he can't get the job done. That being said neither Leonard or Smith are worth a damn in coverage, they are both strong safety's and neither are fast enough or athletic enough to play in open space.

    As far as the RT situation goes, I'm still holding out hope that the Jets will get a stop gap fix when the cap casualties start hitting the market.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472358]One more thought, it's unbelievable that our fat loudmouth offensive line coach promised that Hunter would be the starting RT. There should be a competition, and the team should be looking for any veterans that might get cut. Stupid thing to say.[/QUOTE]

    I totally agree. I have no clue why all this optimism about Hunter is coming out of our coaching staff. He has more than a few BIG flaws in his game and every team that faces us knows exactly what they are. All teams have to do is overload him with 2 or more rushers and they both will end up crushing Sanchez.

    Not having a veteran backup at RT is ridiculous after his performance last season. Same old Rex and co, fat & overconfident in his players' abilities.

  9. #29
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    i didnt think hunter...........

    [QUOTE=Austin;4472287]Something I was thinking about...

    Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.)

    The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too.

    RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter.

    It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision.

    Anyone else oddly encouraged?[/QUOTE]

    was that bad last year, actually the whole line sucked. i tivoed and rewatched all the games and looked at certain positions and his was one. he didnt seem to be all that bad.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=kennesawjet;4472498]was that bad last year, actually the whole line sucked. i tivoed and rewatched all the games and looked at certain positions and his was one. he didnt seem to be all that bad.[/QUOTE]

    Nope only at important times in each game. It doesn't matter if he's good for 3 quarters and then sucks bad in one. It only takes one bad quarter to kill your franchise QB and/or lose the game.

  11. #31
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    I said it in the other RT\Safety thread and I'll say it again. You Leonard haters are going to be crying big time when Beladick snaps him up for his knowledge alone.

    And it's funny that anyone who posts with "I went back and watched the games" ALL have more faith in Leonard and Hunter than those who just remember the freak injuries for Leonard and the bad plays for Hunter and obviously are speaking from emotion and not knowledge.

    Pay your 29 bucks of NFL rewind and watch for the good as well as the bad. Just from the announcer praise alone you'll realize they made a lot more great plays than bad. In fact I haven't seen a single bad Leonard play, but a lot of times he is in on the tackle and a few game savers.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=ARodFLKeysJetsFan;4472360]It would be good considering Vlad was originally drafted as the replacement for Damien Woody.

    If Vlad doesn't show drastic improvement this year he's most likely gone, if he steps up, that's great but I don't think it's smart to be banking on it.

    I'd feel better with a veteran O-Lineman (who we know can play at a competent level) as an insurance policy in case Vlad doesn't step up and Hunter still sucks.[/QUOTE]

    Vlad ducasse wasn't drafted to be replacement for Damien woody. He was drafted to replace alan Faneca at LG. He couldn't beat out slauson for that job in camp.

    Vlad ducasse might have to be Brandon Moore eventually replacement as he might not have feet or mental makeup to play Rt in the Nfl.

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4472516]Vlad ducasse wasn't drafted to be replacement for Damien woody. He was drafted to replace alan Faneca at LG. He couldn't beat out slauson for that job in camp.

    Vlad ducasse might have to be Brandon Moore eventually replacement as he might not have feet or mental makeup to play Rt in the Nfl.[/QUOTE]

    that's false

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=Megalomaniac;4472517]that's false[/QUOTE]

    Tell me how it is false. Alan Faneca was let go after they drafted Vlad ducasse. He competed as a rookie against Slauson for the starting left guard position(Alan Faneca old position) Why he was suppose to win the starting job there. If you know anything about Bill Callahan Vlad Ducasse size is exactly what Callahn looks for from his guards.

    Scouts wonder if ducasse could ever play Rt in the NFl after he struggled Biogtime at the senior bowl(begging the coaches to move him back to guard- thast where they question does he have the mental makeup to survive there) So exactly instead of saying that wrong show me what I said was not accurate thanks.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 05-18-2012 at 10:21 PM.

  15. #35
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    I thought we did address RT when we hired Sporano. Isn't that one of the expectations in his hiring? I think so.

    I'd like to know how rob turner just somehow snuck the fck out of there.

  16. #36
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    Although the following facts are true:

    [list][*]Almost every member of the Jets staff knows more about football than
    almost every poster on this site.[*]They also have MUCH better information than any of us have.[/list]

    They still make mistakes! Last summer even before pre-season posters on
    this site were crying out for something to be done for the O-Line, especially
    following Turner going down in pre-season. Using the weight of the two
    bullets above, the Jets stood pat. We saw how that worked out.

    Your post talks about how we have made so many moves on safety that its
    likely we come up with a decent squad. The ray of hope you're referencing
    is that if they put this much effort into safety, they must already know that
    RT is set.

    The alternative scenario is that we put this much effort on D in the opinion
    that the O is set. That is a trademark move of recent years, not a ray of hope.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=GreenGeek;4472599]
    Your post talks about how we have made so many moves on safety that its
    likely we come up with a decent squad. The ray of hope you're referencing
    is that if they put this much effort into safety, they must already know that
    RT is set.

    The alternative scenario is that we put this much effort on D in the opinion
    that the O is set. [B]That is a trademark move of recent years[/B], not a ray of hope.[/QUOTE]

    As I said in an earlier post, I would disagree with the bolded part.

    When the AC fiasco occurred, we went out and got a Pro Bowl guard in Faneca. Since then, our OL has been a strength . . . until last year. This off-season was the first time in a while that this team had to consider if OL was becoming a weakness. If they did a "trademark move of recent years", they would have went out and overspent on someone like Eric Winston (or at least taken a chance on someone like Marcus McNeil).

    But this time they didn't (at least not yet). And this time it isn't a case of optimistically looking FORWARD, but rather BACK. They already have the hindsight of what could potentially go wrong, and they're still sticking with what they have (at least for now).

    Doesn't mean it won't blow up in their face, but also isn't indicative of how they've handled OL weakness in the past . . .

  18. #38
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    i don't think it's encouraging, for a few reasons:

    - rex will always get defensive needs addressed first.
    - let's say the jets had the worst safeties and the worst RT last year. in free agency, it was easier and cheaper to find a serviceable safety than it was to get a comparable RT.
    - in the draft, it was easier to draft a safety in rounds 2-7 and have that guy be a legit option to start this season, than it was to draft a RT in the same rounds and that RT have a reasonable chance to protect sanchez's butt.

    the reason safety was addressed far more than RT was due to supply/demand, cost and rex's defensive mindset. this is why the jets have drafted a defensive player in the first round 3 years in a row. their goal is to play great defense and run the ball. they were getting burned by TEs and deep balls and guys like maclin and cruz who could simply run by the safeties. but besides winston there weren't any other obvious RT upgrades in free agency, and certainly no cheap ones.

    the jets have done a nice job this offseason. they spent modestly on guys who can contribute and i believe had their best draft since the brick/mangold/leon draft. but since they had very little cap room and drafted best player available, they went for overall talent upgrades over filling every need. RT will be the priority next offseason if hunter/ducasse/howard can't do it. that's the benefit of drafting BAP as opposed to need. if you keep doing it, you have fewer needs each offseason and can fix them more easily.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=OCCH;4472611]As I said in an earlier post, I would disagree with the bolded part.

    When the AC fiasco occurred, we went out and got a Pro Bowl guard in Faneca. Since then, our OL has been a strength . . . until last year. This off-season was the first time in a while that this team had to consider if OL was becoming a weakness. If they did a "trademark move of recent years", they would have went out and overspent on someone like Eric Winston (or at least taken a chance on someone like Marcus McNeil).

    But this time they didn't (at least not yet). And this time it isn't a case of optimistically looking FORWARD, but rather BACK. They already have the hindsight of what could potentially go wrong, and they're still sticking with what they have (at least for now).

    Doesn't mean it won't blow up in their face, but also isn't indicative of how they've handled OL weakness in the past . . .[/QUOTE]

    The Faneca move was Tannenbaum, but before Ryan. This offseason is the second one during which there is an outcry concerning the OLine, not the first.

    The only reason for optimism I see is the coaching change, not the personnel and surely not the number of prospective safeties.
    Last edited by GreenGeek; 05-19-2012 at 08:55 AM.

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=Yankeejet22;4472438]Maybe we need to give Hunter a chance. New year, new OC & OL coach, with a new Offensive philosophy.[/QUOTE]

    This is exactly how I see it.

    Smith - same player, same scheme, same coaches = same results
    Hunter - same player, different scheme, different coaches = probably different (hopefully better!) results

    A LOT of times last year people were criticising Schotty for leaving Hunter 1 on 1 with a strong DE, no TE help, nothing. With Smith, the criticism always went straight to the player.

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