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Thread: Meet the People who will help choose our next President

  1. #1

    Meet the People who will help choose our next President

    Democracy in Action.....

    [B][SIZE="4"]GOP groups plan $1 billion blitz[/SIZE][/B]

    By: Mike Allen and Jim VandeHei
    May 30, 2012 04:34 AM EDT

    Republican super PACs and other outside groups shaped by a loose network of prominent conservatives – including Karl Rove, the Koch brothers and Tom Donohue of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce – plan to spend roughly $1 billion on November’s elections for the White House and control of Congress, according to officials familiar with the groups’ internal operations.

    That total includes previously undisclosed plans for newly aggressive spending by the Koch brothers, who are steering funding to build sophisticated, county-by-county operations in key states. POLITICO has learned that Koch-related organizations plan to spend about $400 million ahead of the 2012 elections - twice what they had been expected to commit.

    Just the spending linked to the Koch network is more than the $370 million that John McCain raised for his entire presidential campaign four years ago. And the $1 billion total surpasses the $750 million that Barack Obama, one of the most prolific fundraisers ever, collected for his 2008 campaign.

    Restore Our Future, the super PAC supporting Mitt Romney, proved its potency by spending nearly $50 million in the primaries. Now able to entice big donors with a neck-and-neck general election, the group is likely to meet its new goal of spending $100 million more.

    And American Crossroads and the affiliated Crossroads GPS, the groups that Rove and Ed Gillespie helped conceive and raise cash for, are expected to ante up $300 million, giving the two-year-old organization one of the election’s loudest voices.

    “The intensity on the right is white-hot,” said Steven Law, president of American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS. “We just can’t leave anything in the locker room. And there is a greater willingness to cooperate and share information among outside groups on the center-right.”

    In targeted states, the groups’ activities will include TV, radio and digital advertising; voter-turnout work; mail and phone appeals; and absentee- and early-ballot drives.

    The $1 billion in outside money is in addition to the traditional party apparatus – the Romney campaign and the Republican National Committee – which together intend to raise at least $800 million.

    The Republican financial plans are unlike anything seen before in American politics. If the GOP groups hit their targets, they likely could outspend their liberal adversaries by at least two-to-one, according to officials involved in the budgeting for outside groups on the right and left.

    By contrast, Priorities USA Action, the super PAC supporting President Barack Obama’s reelection, has struggled to raise money, and now hopes to spend about $100 million. Obama’s initial reluctance to embrace such groups constrained fundraising on the Democratic side, which is now trying to make up for lost time.

    Labor could add another $200 million to $400 million in Democratic backing.

    The consequences of the conservative resurgence in fundraising are profound. If it holds, Romney and his allies will likely outraise and outspend Obama this fall, a once-unthinkable proposition. The surge has increased the urgency of the Democrats’ thus-far futile efforts to blunt the effects of a pair of 2010 federal court rulings – including the Supreme Court’s seminal Citizens United decision – that opened the floodgates for limitless spending, and prompted Obama to flip-flop on his resistance to super PACs on the left.

    “We’re not making any attempt to match American Crossroads or any of those groups with television ads,” said Michael Podhorzer, political director for the AFL-CIO. Instead, much of labor’s money will be spent on talking directly with union members and other workers.

    “Progressives can’t match all the money going into the system right now because of Citizens United, so we have to have a program that empowers the worker movement,” Podhorzer said.

    Much of the public focus has been on how these outside groups will tilt the balance of power in fundraising at the presidential level. But POLITICO has learned that Republicans involved with the groups see the combined efforts playing out just as aggressively at the congressional level, in below-the-radar efforts designed to damage Democratic candidates for the House and Senate.

    The officials said that if Romney looks weak in the final stretch, the vast majority of the money could be aimed at winning back the Senate. Republicans need four seats to do that, if Obama is re-elected.

    Republicans have taken one big lesson away from campaigns conducted to date in 2011 and 2012: outside money can be the difference-maker in elections.

    It was outside money from casino magnate Sheldon Adelson that single-handedly kept Newt Gingrich afloat against Romney. A super PAC spending surge fueled by Wyoming mutual fund guru Foster Friess was credited with powering Rick Santorum to an upset win in the Iowa caucuses. And outside money has helped lift tea party challengers past incumbents like Sen. Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) in this year’s primaries.

    Restore Our Future, the pro-Romney super PAC, spent twice as much on the air as the campaign did in the thick of the primaries: Through March, the campaign had put $16.7 million into TV, while ROF shelled out $33.2 million.

    In Florida, the super PAC outspent the campaign, $8.8 million to $6.7 million. (The campaign can get more spots per dollar because of more favorable rates.) In Michigan, it was $2.3 million to $1.5 million. In Ohio, ROF outspent the campaign, $2.3 million to $1.5 million.

    Now Republicans are applying this approach - on steroids - to the remainder of the campaign:

    —Groups affiliated with Charles and David Koch, the billionaire industrialists who are among the biggest behind-the-scenes players in Republican politics, will spend the most of any outside outfit on either side: roughly $395 million for issue and political advocacy by groups they support – twice the amount they previously had been expected to commit.

    “People are energized because the future of our country and economy is at stake,” said an ally familiar with the Koch effort.

    The flagship group in the Koch network is Americans for Prosperity, which gets about half its funds from other donors.

    — American Crossroads and Crossroads Grassroots Policy Strategies (GPS) plan to do about two-thirds of their spending on advocacy related to the presidential race, and the rest relating to House and Senate races. Crossroads (a super PAC) was founded in April 2010, Crossroads GPS (a 501(c)4 non-profit group) started the next month.

    —The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has a goal of $100 million, according to outsiders familiar with the plans. All of that will be focused on congressional races, with the House as the top priority – what organizers call “the first insurance policy” if Obama were to get reelected.

    But the Chamber’s message, which includes attacks on Obama’s health-care plan, can be expected to help Romney in several states with competitive Senate races that are also presidential battlegrounds – Florida, Ohio, Virginia, New Mexico, Nevada and Wisconsin.

    —The YG Action Fund, the super PAC started by two of the self-styled “Young Guns” – House Republican Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and House Republican Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) — has a goal of raising about $30 million, including the affiliated YG Network.

    —American Action Network, chaired by former senator Norm Coleman, raised about $30 million in the 2010 election cycle and is likely to try to at least match that amount in 2012, with most of that going toward congressional races.

    —The Congressional Leadership Fund, a super PAC supported by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and other House GOP leaders, has reported raising $5 million so far.

    —The pro-Romney super PAC, Restore Our Future, is likely to raise $50 million to $100 million for the general election. “They saw that the spending worked before, and with the race this competitive, it will be even easier for them to raise money now,” said a source close to the group.

    Charlie Spies, co-founder and counsel of Restore Our Future, said: “While there are multiple other groups doing important work to assist Republicans up and down the ticket, ROF is the only group dedicated solely to electing Mitt Romney, and targeting every dollar that we raise towards supporting him. ROF will spend our resources fighting back against the Obama team’s distortions and smears.”

    —FreedomWorks, the Dick Armey-led tea party outfit that has backed challengers in GOP congressional primaries, is expected to spend $30 million or more on issue advocacy, campaign ads and organizing — between its super PAC and 501(c)4.

    —The Republican Jewish Coalition, a 501(c)4 group that works closely with the Crossroads outfits and the American Action Network, plans to spend more than $6 million on “the largest, most expensive, most sophisticated outreach effort ever undertaken in the Jewish community,” according to a source familiar with its plans.

    —Club for Growth plans spending in congressional races but does not reveal totals.

    It’s important to step back for a moment to understand the currents racing through the money chase right now. Republicans, back in the era of soft money, dominated fundraising, thanks in large part to big business donors. But when soft money was outlawed in 2002, a lot of business donors got uneasy about feeding their money through outside groups. Many sat out. At the same time, liberals got into the business of using tax-exempt and other groups to build their own web of think tanks, media monitors, vote-trackers and advocacy groups to influence politics. Rich liberals such as George Soros and union leaders funded much of it.

    By the time 2008 rolled around, Obama and the Democrats were rolling over Republicans in the race for campaign cash raised in limited chunks, and Obama largely discouraged big-money outside efforts. Things have changed rapidly – and, in some respects, radically — since then.

    First, Citizens United made it easy and less risky for rich donors to get back in the game. Second, a subsequent lower court case paved the way for the creation of super PACs, giving mega-donors arguably the most effective vehicle for funding ads in the modern campaign finance era. Third and perhaps most important, Obama scared many free-market millionaires into action with what they perceive as his outright hostility to capitalism.

  2. #2
    This is a disgrace and it goes for both parties.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4480041]This is a disgrace and it goes for both parties.[/QUOTE]

    Yet you've never posted anything negative regarding the left and George Soros.... :rolleyes:

  4. #4
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    The article should be titled "Republican party recognizes that Obama lied to McCain about accepting money which put McCain at a huge disadvantage and isn't sitting on it's laurels to allow Obama to get that advantage again".

    [QUOTE]Just the spending linked to the Koch network is more than the $370 million that John McCain raised for his entire presidential campaign four years ago. And the $1 billion total surpasses the $750 million that Barack Obama, one of the most prolific fundraisers ever, collected for his 2008 campaign.[/QUOTE]<edit>Also they are comparing money that is slated for president AND congress fights to just what McCain and Obama collected. Apples to Oranges comparison.

  5. #5
    So... Oprah's endorsement of Barry isn't working out this time around?

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4480041]This is a disgrace and it goes for both parties.[/QUOTE]

    LOL

    You are so TRANSPARENT.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4480041]This is a disgrace and it goes for both parties.........[SIZE="1"]but I only ever talk about the GOP, cause I iz a LIBERAL!!! WHOOO!!!!! LIBERALS RULE!!!!![/SIZE][/QUOTE]

    Fixed your post.

    I assume you are aware that Obama currently has recieved more money than Romney, right?

    And that totals, to all political recipients (Candidate/Party/PAC), is about even right now between (R) and (D), right?

    Yet as usual, we get a standard issue GOP-is-corrupt piece, with a flimsy "well, both parties do it" toss in coda.

    I guess there would have to actually BE articles calling out Obama on HIS ties to big money for you to link them here, so maybe it's not your fault afterall.

    P.S. I'm looking forward to all the LIbs who screamed that Obama's faith was not an issue to start attacking with equal gusto the rash or articles and attacks on Romney's Mormonism. I'm sure it'll be any minute now, those threads will be started...right? Right? Um....right? :dunno:

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4480178] the rash or articles and attacks on Romney's Mormonism.[/QUOTE]

    Not trying being a dick (honest it's the new me!)...but I haven't seen many.

    Where do you read them?

  9. #9
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    Money = Speech is possibly the worst political development of my lifetime.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=FF2®;4480187]Not trying being a dick (honest it's the new me!)...but I haven't seen many.

    Where do you read them?[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE][B][U][SIZE="6"]Romney's Mormon faith in spotlight[/SIZE][/U][/B]

    [url]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76776.html[/url]

    By EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE | 5/28/12 5:06 PM EDT

    Mitt Romney wants voters to see him as the man to save the economy and right the country, the redeeming American hero riding in on the proverbial white horse.

    Just not that White Horse.

    That’s the one in the old Mormon prophecy attributed to Joseph Smith, which predicts that after the banks fail and when the Constitution is nearing collapse, Mormons flush with wealth — the White Horse, in the prophecy’s metaphor — will rise and lead America back to greatness.

    (Also on POLITICO: GOP to Mitt Romney: Own your Mormonism.)

    Now that Romney’s essentially secured the Republican nomination, the media attention to his religious beliefs has already kicked off a sort of national Mormonism 101. Deep into his second run for president, Romney’s Mormonism remains one of his great mysteries — and obstacles — in many voters’ minds. The Senate has more Mormons than Episcopalians or Lutherans, but polls consistently show that Romney’s religion has remained a factor.

    And with religion flaring up in the 2012 race recently amid revelations about proposed ads linking President Barack Obama to his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright —some Democrats have lashed back with suggestions that discussing Romney’s religion is now fair game, too.

    The White Horse prophecy itself was discounted by the church almost a hundred years ago but Mormon political figures like Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and even Romney himself still get asked about it from time to time. And even though it’s long been discredited by the church, there are pieces of the prophecy that echo with important themes of mainstream Mormonism today: church members believe the Framers were divinely inspired, and Mormons have a special role to play in preserving the Constitution and the nation as a whole.

    Yet Romney, for the most part, has steered clear of answering detailed questions about his religious beliefs—referring to “people of different faiths, like yours and mine” in his commencement address to the evangelical Liberty University is about as far as he’s gone in the 2012 campaign.

    That leaves journalists and other observers searching for clues, and the attention already going to Mormon views of the Constitution, which has percolated up from the blogs to the New York Times, provides a window into how this can play out on the campaign trail.

    The idea that one day Mormons will be called upon to save the country when they see the Constitution “hang by a thread” is the controversial prophecy’s best-known line, and the source of what Brigham Young University’s Encyclopedia of Mormonism refers to as “an important oral tradition.”

    It is well-known to many church members, and continues to be an active topic of conversation among Mormons today. That sense echoes through the speeches of Mormon leaders and the beliefs of rank-and-file church members, including top LDS leaders in the church and politics. Among them: Romney’s father, who said at the outset of his own presidential run that he believed in the special role Mormons had to play in preserving the Constitution.

    If Mitt Romney believed that himself, he would be much like most other members of his faith. He’s mentioned the divine influence on the Constitution several times on the campaign trail—as when a woman accused Obama of treason and asked whether Romney would “restore our Constitution,” Romney responded, “I happen to believe that the Constitution was not just brilliant, but probably inspired.”

    His campaign didn’t respond to requests for elaboration.

    Of the many things that Romney, a former Mormon bishop, could be asked about if his religion becomes an election issue, the prophecy is one of the most debated, even among believers.

    Like jazz and baseball, Mormonism has a distinctively American heartbeat. According to LDS beliefs, the Garden of Eden was located in Missouri. Joseph Smith found the Book of Mormon in upstate New York. And it’s up to the Mormons to save America when the country begins to collapse.

    After warning signs of trouble in the Middle East and anti-Mormon sentiment pervading the government, “You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber,” the prophecy has Smith saying.

    But “it will be preserved and saved by the efforts of the White Horse,” who will “stand by the Constitution of the United States as it was given by the inspiration of God.” There will be a Black Horse — American blacks, as the text is commonly interpreted — that sides with England and France, but eventually they’ll all submit to the White Horse as the religion fulfills its world-conquering destiny in an Armageddon-style war with the Russians—while keeping an eye on the looming threat of China.

    The prophecy is apocryphal — it was supposedly said in May 1843, but not recorded anywhere until 50 years later — but Smith’s separate, fully documented comments that believers would be “the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction,” is key to Mormons’ mindset, even if they’re not sure what to do with the White Horse itself.

    “That’s a folklore — we’ve heard it, and I think everybody’s heard it. It’s been out there for many years,” said Robert McKim, a Republican Wyoming state representative and a Mormon. “The next question some people ask me, ‘Well, you think Mitt Romney’s that person?’ I say, ‘I don’t have no idea about that.’ I really don’t worry about it, because I believe we have prophets at the head of the church, and I think if that time comes, they’ll tell us. It’s a passing comment that you don’t speculate on, because you have no way to prove or disprove it.”

    David Campbell, a Mormon himself and professor at Notre Dame who has studied his fellow church members’ views on the prophecy, as well as the intersection of the church and politics, said McKim’s far from alone.

    “If you asked a more general question, ‘Do you believe that one day the Constitution will hang by a thread and it will be a Mormon who saves it?’ we know from data that I’ve collected that many Mormons actually do endorse that idea, but they would not necessarily know that that came from something known as the White Horse prophecy,” Campbell said. “They just know that there’s going to be a time of Constitutional crisis maybe, and it will be a member of the LDS faith who will come and save things.”

    McKim and a range of other Mormons interviewed say they have heard congregants at their churches and other friends bring up the prophecy as they talk about Romney’s candidacy. No, they don’t believe it themselves. Yes, they know people who do. No, they’re not thrilled to hear their fellow Mormons bringing up the prophecy, and they’re not anxious to have it get the wider exposure they’re confident Romney’s candidacy will create.

    “I hear it from some of my colleagues who happen to be members of the church sometimes, and I choose to focus on the things over which we have control and try to do what I believe,” said State Sen. Jerry Lewis, a Republican and also a Mormon.

    Romney’s only touched upon the issue briefly. In 2007, at the outset of his first White House run, he told the Salt Lake Tribune he hadn’t heard his name associated with the White Horse, and pointed out that the prophecy isn’t official doctrine. “There are a lot of things that are speculation and discussion by church members and even church leaders that aren’t official church doctrine. I don’t put that at the heart of my religious belief,” he told the paper.

    Most people still don’t understand the religion — 50 percent surveyed in a November 2011 Pew poll said they know “not very much/nothing” about it. Some think it’s unnerving. Those Pew numbers showed 65 percent of people saying Mormonism was very different from their own religion, and nearly a quarter picking words to describe the LDS church like cult, polygamy, restrictive, strange.

    That helps explain the undertow of anxiety beneath the wave of favorite-son pride washing through LDS wards around the country: They’ve already had more than their fill of polygamy jokes and mocking of temple rituals, and worry that the spotlight on Romney’s candidacy is about to produce many, many more.

    “It is a mix of excitement and a little bit of concern, although I think most Mormons figure in the long run it will be for the good of the church. But with increased visibility will come more scrutiny, and probably more criticism,” said LaVarr Webb, a Mormon and former campaign manager for Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt. “Deep down there’s still this concern about, ‘Will we be accepted? Will we be viewed as strange?’”

    The LDS Church distanced itself from the White Horse prophecy almost immediately. “It is simply false: that is all there is to it,” then-President Joseph F. Smith (not the original Joseph Smith) declared to a church leadership meeting in 1918.

    But 70 years later, Ezra Taft Benson, who became the first Mormon Cabinet secretary when Dwight Eisenhower appointed him head of the Agriculture Department and later rose to be the 13th president of the LDS church, was still talking about the main idea behind the White Horse

    “I have faith that the Constitution will be saved as prophesied by Joseph Smith,” Benson said in a 1986 speech at Brigham Young University celebrating the anniversary of the Constitution. “It will be saved by enlightened members of this Church — men and women who will subscribe to and abide by the principles of the Constitution.”

    The “hang by a thread” idea has been a constant. It made several appearances in the last election cycle, including in a mysterious mailer promoting the Senate candidacy of Mike Lee, and in the end-times rhetoric of Glenn Beck, who converted to Mormonism in 1999.

    Hatch didn’t get far into his 2000 White House campaign before feeling compelled to deny a White Horse connection. But when he referred to “the Constitution literally hanging by a thread” in a radio interview in the fall of 1999, The Salt Lake Tribune responded with a story headlined, “Did Hatch Allude to LDS Prophecy?”

    “It becomes a joke, every time we have a prominent politician, Orrin Hatch or someone else, is going to save the Constitution,” Webb lamented.

    George Romney got deeper and more direct early in his own run. In August 1967 — eight days before the famous Vietnam “brainwashing” comment that scuttled his campaign — the candidate was asked during an interview with a Mormon magazine for his interpretation of “a time when the Constitution will ‘hang by a thread’ and about the saving role of LDS leaders in the government during such a time.”

    “Anyone can look at the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith in this respect,” Romney responded. “I have always felt that they meant that sometime the question of whether we are going to proceed on the basis of the Constitution would arise and at this point government leaders who were Mormons would be involved in answering that question.”

    George Romney explained what he meant: “If that gets wiped out as a result of the state governments becoming dependent upon the federal government — mere appendages — you wipe out a major constitutional means of protecting human freedom and self-government.”

    Aside from his comments to the Tribune in 2007, Mitt Romney’s only public discussion of the prophecy was in 1999, when Hatch was facing questions about the prophecy. Romney told the Tribune he’d heard similar questions during his father’s campaign and said his father didn’t believe in it.

    The Romney campaign didn’t respond to questions about whether he puts any stock in the White Horse prophecy, his own take on the idea of the Constitution hanging by a thread or whether he agrees with the interpretation offered by his father.

    “Maybe he believes the way I do, but for political reasons, he won’t say it,” said Rex Rammell, whose comment during his 2010 Idaho gubernatorial run about convening a meeting of church elders for a White Horse discussion drew a rebuke from Salt Lake City that the prophecy is “based on accounts that have not been substantiated by historical research and is not embraced as Church doctrine.”

    The LDS church is eager to see the White Horse conversations stop.

    “The Church perspective is this: It’s not our doctrine, it’s not taught in our meetings, and as we’ve said repeatedly, it’s not relevant to who we are as a people,” church spokesman Michael Purdy said in an email. “We’re certainly aware that there is a national (and perhaps international) conversation going on about the Church and its beliefs. We want to answer questions for those who have them but stay out of the politics.”

    But for rank-and-file Mormons, the discussion about Romney, his place in the church and politics, and the White Horse prophecy is well underway.

    “You’ll hear people say Romney has a special role to play, but the rhetoric is virtually indistinguishable from general partisan rhetoric,” said Joanna Brooks, a Mormon writer and progressive Democrat. She said she’s heard the White Horse come up in her San Diego LDS ward and elsewhere but attributes that to most Mormons tilting toward the GOP rather than the prophecy. “Is this special Mormon influence, or is this just the way Republicanism sounds these days?”[/QUOTE]


    [QUOTE][B][U][SIZE="6"]Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith tangles with a quirk of Arkansas history[/SIZE][/U][/B]

    [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-mormon-faith-tangles-with-a-quirk-of-arkansas-history/2012/05/20/gIQAKHVFeU_print.html[/url]

    By Sandhya Somashekhar, Published: May 20

    CARROLLTON, Ark. — On the wildflower-studded slopes of the Ozarks, where memories run long and family ties run thick, a little-known and long-ago chapter of history still simmers.

    On Sept. 11, 1857, a wagon train from this part of Arkansas met with a gruesome fate in Utah, where most of the travelers were slaughtered by a Mormon militia in an episode known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Hundreds of the victims’ descendants still populate these hills and commemorate the killings, which they have come to call “the first 9/11.”

    Many of the locals grew up hearing denunciations of Mormonism from the pulpit on Sundays, and tales of the massacre from older relatives who considered Mormons “evil.”

    “There have been Fancher family reunions for 150 years, and the massacre comes up at every one of them,” said Scott Fancher, 58, who traces his lineage back to 26 members of the wagon train, which was known as the Fancher-Baker party. “The more whiskey we drunk, the more resentful we got.”

    There aren’t many places in America more likely to be suspicious of Mormonism — and potentially more problematic for Mitt Romney, who is seeking to become the country’s first Mormon president. Not only do many here retain a personal antipathy toward the religion and its followers, but they also tend to be Christian evangelicals, many of whom view Mormonism as a cult.

    And yet, there is scant evidence that Romney’s religion is making much difference in how voters here are thinking about the presidential election and whether they are willing to back the former Massachusetts governor.

    “I think the situation right now is more anti-Obama than any other situation,” said Dave Hoover, chairman of the Carroll County Republicans.

    It is impossible to know how Romney’s faith will play out in the November election. Polls point to a persistent skepticism about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and not just among evangelical Christians. Thirty-five percent of Americans in a Bloomberg News poll in March said they had an unfavorable view of the church, while 29 percent had a favorable view.

    But it may not have a major impact on their vote: Eight out of 10 Republicans and Democrats said Romney’s faith was not a major reason to support or oppose him, according to an April Washington Post-ABC News poll. And a recent study by the Brookings Institution found that Romney’s religion may actually increase his support from conservative voters, including white evangelicals.

    Indeed, many here say their political values will be more important to their vote than religion or history. A rural and deeply religious community, many cite the cultural issues of abortion and gun rights as foremost on their minds. The weak economy has deepened their dislike of President Obama, who received less than 40 percent of the vote in Arkansas in 2008.

    Still, Romney’s candidacy has prompted some soul-searching in this area, where a historical group estimates that more than half the residents can trace their ancestry back to the wagon train.

    “There’s families all scattered in through this area who had ancestors in that, so there is a tinge of anti-Mormonism in this area, a little bit of bias I suppose,” said Republican Roy Ragland, a former state legislator and pastor who does not believe it will make an appreciable difference at the polls.

    The massacre was an anomaly for the church, because it was Mormons who were more likely to be targeted in the early days of their religion, which was founded in the 1830s and 1840s.

    Mormons had been attacked by mobs and forcibly ejected from states. They were viewed as a political threat and targeted for their now-abandoned practice of polygamy.

    The Mountain Meadows Massacre remains one of the darkest episodes in the history of Mormonism. The church has apologized for the incident, and Romney addressed it during his 2007 presidential campaign in response to a reporter’s question.

    “That was a terrible, awful act carried out by members of my faith,” he told the Associated Press. “There are bad people in any church, and it’s true of members of my church, too.”

    Violence erupted between Mormons and non-Mormons elsewhere, such as Carthage, Ill., where Mormon founder Joseph Smith was murdered by a mob. And in Independence, Mo., site of the “Missouri Mormon War,” a conflict that resulted primarily in Mormon deaths.

    In northwestern Arkansas, at least two monuments commemorate the massacre, including a towering wooden cross erected just six years ago. On it is carved a biblical saying: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay saith the Lord.”

    Historians believe the wagon train of 30 families, laden with cattle and other goods, set off in early 1857 seeking a better life in California.

    Their journey took them through Utah, where a skittish Mormon population had sought refuge from persecution but were preparing for an invasion by the federal government, which feared the Mormons were plotting treason.

    Accounts differ about why tensions escalated, but local Mormon leaders decided to attack the wagon train with the help of a local Native American tribe, on whom they planned to lay the blame. After days of exchanging fire, a Mormon leader approached the camp to offer safe passage. But it was a ruse: The Mormon militia massacred the men and women and many of the children, 120 in all. Seventeen of the youngest were spared, and adopted by local families until federal authorities intervened to return them to Arkansas. Years later, John D. Lee, a Mormon, was tried and executed for the crime.

    The Mormon Church has consistently said it was a renegade local militia, not church leaders, who authorized the killings, though some of the victims’ descendants are skeptical of that claim.

    The massacre is a familiar story in this region, where blood ties and history are so respected that people can rattle off the myriad ways in which they are related to their neighbors, and every spring, they lay flowers at the graves of their ancestors.

    Once impoverished, the area experienced a boom in the early part of this century, driven in part by Wal-Mart, which is headquartered a few miles away in Bentonville.

    But it still carries the character of a modest mountain community, where people teach their children to hunt raccoons and relatives are referred to as “kin.” It is so conservatively Christian that former governor Mike Huckabee once derided its politicians as “Shiite Republicans.”

    Descendants’ groups headquartered here for years have worked with, and sometimes clashed with, the Mormon Church to create a public memorial at the site of the massacre, which sits on church property. They succeeded last year, when the site became a National Historic Landmark.

    “It’s an emotional thing for us,” said Phil Bolinger, president of the Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation. “When you come of age, when you mature, things to do with your own blood kin becomes more important and you become passionate about it.”

    In another quirk of history, both of the main presidential candidates have ties to this region. Parley Pratt, an ancestor of Romney’s and an esteemed figure in the Mormon Church, was murdered in Arkansas shortly before the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Historians have speculated that anger over this killing may have played a part in the massacre.

    And in a cemetery nearby is buried Nathaniel Bunch, an ancestor of Obama’s, according to local genealogists, who say Bunch was a contemporary of the wagon train emigrants.

    Some here also are skeptical of the president’s faith, believing their choice this fall is between a Mormon and a Muslim (Obama has repeatedly affirmed his Christian faith).

    None of that history, though, including the massacre, may make much of a difference at the polls.

    “That was 200 years ago,” Doug Steele, 45, a Republican insurance agent related to some of the massacre victims, said over a chicken sandwich at Granny’s Kitchen in Huntsville. “It’s been a long time. You can’t hate forever.”[/QUOTE]

    I'd suggest "Google" the words "Romney" and "Mormon" if you'd liek to find more.:D Figure this is a good, recent, start.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4480045]Yet you've never posted anything negative regarding the left and George Soros.... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    You make a good point, Brother Dean. IJF ignores the fine work being done by the Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly, and the rampant voter fraud by ACORN.

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Ernie;4480208]You make a good point, Brother Dean.[b] IJF ignores the fine work being done by the Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly, and the rampant voter fraud by ACORN.[/b][/QUOTE]

    I noticed he never mentions Obungler's Hollyweird friends and their $40,000 a plate fund raisers either..... :rolleyes:

  13. #13
    At the moment I'd be quite happy to see the GOP raising big money for this election for many reasons we have discussed here ad nauseum. That said this trend of massive political donations/citizens U/super Pacs is very troubling. It is not good for our democracy long term.

  14. #14
    Jets Insider VIP
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    I thought this was an article about the 50 percent of Americans who live off the rest of us and who they most likely vote for.:rolleyes:

  15. #15
    Just an oversight, I'M SURE. This pile of rabble being run by WEALTHY CROOKS.
    share this story

    WASHINGTON — Unions are gearing up to spend more than $400 million to help re-elect President Barack Obama and lift Democrats this election year in a fight for labor's survival.

    Under siege in state legislatures around the country – and fearing the consequences of a Republican in the White House – union leaders say they have little choice as they try to beat back GOP efforts to curb collective bargaining rights or limit their ability to collect dues.

    "People are digging deeper," said Larry Scanlon, political director of the country's largest public workers union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "If Republicans take over the presidency, Congress and enough state legislatures, unions will be out of business, pure and simple."

    Scanlon's union was the biggest overall spender in the 2010 midterm elections, doling out about $93 million to help state and federal candidates, mostly Democrats. This year, AFSCME is expected to spend at least $100 million or more on political action, including television advertising, phone banks and member canvassing. The effort is to help the president, Democrats running for the House and Senate, gubernatorial candidates and key state lawmakers.

    With increased spending planned by other labor groups, including the powerful Service Employees International Union and the AFL-CIO, unions are likely to top the [COLOR="Red"]$400 million they spent to help elect Obama four years ago.[/COLOR]

    Not all union expenditures on political action are publicly disclosed, so some numbers are based on self-reporting. But unions have long been known as one of the most reliable supporters of Democratic candidates and their efforts have increased with every election as the threats to organized labor grow.

    Unions already spent more than $40 million last year to successfully repeal an Ohio law that restricted collective bargaining rights and to recall lawmakers who backed a similar measure in Wisconsin. They are spending millions more in a bid to recall Republican Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who led the charge to curb public employee union rights as a way to balance the state's budget.

  16. #16
    All Pro
    Join Date
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4480187]Not trying being a dick (honest it's the new me!)...but I haven't seen many.

    Where do you read them?[/QUOTE]

    You need to become more well read. Or watch more TV!

    Nothing new-Slate from back in 2006 (Washington Post)
    [B][SIZE=2]Romney's Religion - [/SIZE][SIZE=2]A Mormon president? No way.[/SIZE][/B]

    [URL]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_big_idea/2006/12/romneys_religion.html[/URL]


    Frank Rich, New York magazine in Feb. 2012
    [URL]http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/mitt-romney-2012-2/index2.html[/URL]

    liberal attacks on Romney’s Mormonism: "the big dog that has yet to bark, and surely will by October."

    Maureen Dowd, NYT:
    [B]Anne Frank, a Mormon? 10/19/11[/B]

    [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opinion/dowd-anne-frank-a-mormon.html?_r=1&src=recg[/URL]

    [B]Is Elvis a Mormon? 3/18/12[/B]

    [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/dowd-is-elvis-a-mormon.html[/URL]

    On TV too: Lawrence O' Donnell, MSNBC

    [B]"Mormonism was created by a guy in Upstate New York in 1830 when he got caught having sex with the maid and explained to his wife that God told him to do it. Forty-eight wives later, Joseph Smith's lifestyle was completely sanctified in the religion he invented to go with it, which Mitt Romney says he believes."[/B]

    and Bill Maher , HBO

    [B]"All his charitable donations are to Mormons. He gives to his cult. That's not a charity. They're not poor people."[/B]

    Bottom line: Between (D)generate SuperPACs, Union kickbacks and Free MSM Cheerleading B. Hussein is not lacking
    in funding or support for his "message". Only liberals cry about GOP SuperPACs or label political contributions as undemocratic
    Last edited by Jungle Shift Jet; 05-30-2012 at 11:33 AM.

  17. #17
    Jets Insider VIP
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    [QUOTE=acepepe;4480219]Just an oversight, I'M SURE. This pile of rabble being run by WEALTHY CROOKS.
    share this story

    WASHINGTON — Unions are gearing up to spend more than $400 million to help re-elect President Barack Obama and lift Democrats this election year in a fight for labor's survival.

    Under siege in state legislatures around the country – and fearing the consequences of a Republican in the White House – union leaders say they have little choice as they try to beat back GOP efforts to curb collective bargaining rights or limit their ability to collect dues.

    "People are digging deeper," said Larry Scanlon, political director of the country's largest public workers union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "If Republicans take over the presidency, Congress and enough state legislatures, unions will be out of business, pure and simple."

    Scanlon's union was the biggest overall spender in the 2010 midterm elections, doling out about $93 million to help state and federal candidates, mostly Democrats. This year, AFSCME is expected to spend at least $100 million or more on political action, including television advertising, phone banks and member canvassing. The effort is to help the president, Democrats running for the House and Senate, gubernatorial candidates and key state lawmakers.

    With increased spending planned by other labor groups, including the powerful Service Employees International Union and the AFL-CIO, unions are likely to top the [COLOR=Red]$400 million they spent to help elect Obama four years ago.[/COLOR]

    Not all union expenditures on political action are publicly disclosed, so some numbers are based on self-reporting. But unions have long been known as one of the most reliable supporters of Democratic candidates and their efforts have increased with every election as the threats to organized labor grow.

    Unions already spent more than $40 million last year to successfully repeal an Ohio law that restricted collective bargaining rights and to recall lawmakers who backed a similar measure in Wisconsin. They are spending millions more in a bid to recall Republican Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who led the charge to curb public employee union rights as a way to balance the state's budget.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah but that is totally different than the OP....






    It is about dem contributions.

  18. #18
    All you hear about Wisconsin is the "Coke (?) Brothers and their buying the Wisc. Recall Election".

    Then you look at say, this:

    [IMG]http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BP701A_WISCO_G_20120305183604.jpg[/IMG]

  19. #19
    Board Moderator
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4480215]I thought this was an article about the 50 percent of Americans who live off the rest of us and who they most likely vote for.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    ZACKLEY. The problem with this country is that the people who work for a living get outvoted by the people who vote for a living.

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4480222]You need to become more well read. Or watch more TV!

    Nothing new-Slate from back in 2006 (Washington Post)
    [B][SIZE=2]Romney's Religion - [/SIZE][SIZE=2]A Mormon president? No way.[/SIZE][/B]

    [URL]http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_big_idea/2006/12/romneys_religion.html[/URL]


    Frank Rich, New York magazine in Feb. 2012
    [URL]http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/mitt-romney-2012-2/index2.html[/URL]

    liberal attacks on Romney’s Mormonism: "the big dog that has yet to bark, and surely will by October."

    Maureen Dowd, NYT:
    [B]Anne Frank, a Mormon? 10/19/11[/B]

    [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opinion/dowd-anne-frank-a-mormon.html?_r=1&src=recg[/URL]

    [B]Is Elvis a Mormon? 3/18/12[/B]

    [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/dowd-is-elvis-a-mormon.html[/URL]

    On TV too: Lawrence O' Donnell, MSNBC

    [B]"Mormonism was created by a guy in Upstate New York in 1830 when he got caught having sex with the maid and explained to his wife that God told him to do it. Forty-eight wives later, Joseph Smith's lifestyle was completely sanctified in the religion he invented to go with it, which Mitt Romney says he believes."[/B]

    and Bill Maher , HBO

    [B]"All his charitable donations are to Mormons. He gives to his cult. That's not a charity. They're not poor people."[/B]

    Bottom line: Between (D)generate SuperPACs, Union kickbacks and Free MSM Cheerleading B. Hussein is not lacking
    in funding or support for his "message". Only liberals cry about GOP SuperPACs or label political contributions as undemocratic[/QUOTE]

    Bill Mahers aside, most of those are not attacks. The may tackle "Can a Mormon get elected President" or "Should Mormons be baptizing dead Jews, but the aren't attacks on Romney.

    Legitimate questions. Much like Kennedy's catholicism.
    Last edited by FF2®; 05-30-2012 at 12:15 PM.

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