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Thread: Gestapo Guns Down innocent Civilian...

  1. #1

    Gestapo Guns Down innocent Civilian...

    [url]http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/[/url]

    [QUOTE][B]KNOX GUN-RIGHTS REPORT
    COPS GUN DOWN MAN FOR LEGALLY CARRYING FIREARM
    Jeff Knox explains how irrational fear led to police-sanctioned murder[/B]


    Erik Scott was a West Point graduate who went on to serve honorably in the Army, get his MBA from Duke and establish a lucrative career in real estate and as a sales rep for a medical device company. He was 38 years old when he was gunned down in 2010 in the portico of a Las Vegas area Costco store by officers from the Las Vegas Metro Police Department. While it was 7 bullets from the only people we’re supposed to trust with guns that snuffed out Erik Scott’s life, what really killed him was an irrational fear of firearms – hoplophobia.

    Scott and his girlfriend had been shopping in the Costco, but had been asked to leave when an employee spotted Scott’s lawfully carried handgun. Scott had inadvertently exposed the gun when he squatted down to inspect some merchandise. He informed the employee that he was legally carrying the gun and was in possession of a valid Nevada concealed weapons permit, but was informed that Costco has a policy against carrying firearms in their stores.

    A brief argument ensued, some raised voices and obvious frustration on Scott’s part, but witnesses said it didn’t seem like a big deal. They saw nothing particularly threatening about the incident or the clean-cut, good looking young man. The store manager who had spoken with Scott seemed satisfied by Scott’s reassurance that he was a legal firearm carrier and would be finished with his shopping in a few minutes. But a store Loss Prevention Officer called the police and reported that an armed man was behaving erratically in the store.

    That report, based on irrational fear, and perhaps some personal envy, triggered events which quickly spiraled out of control. It seems that the fear factor was taken up a notch with each description of the story to the point that responding officers believed they were going into a violent hostage situation with a heavily armed and dangerous Green Beret.

    Las Vegas MPD responded with a city-wide alert, street closures, helicopter support and deployment of a Mobile Command Center. The first officers on the scene arrived as Costco employees were following telephone instructions from the police to calmly evacuate the store.

    As Scott and his girlfriend fell in with other patrons flowing out of the exit door, the Loss Prevention Officer who started the whole mess pointed toward Scott and a police officer at the door suddenly began yelling “Stop! I said Stop! Drop the gun! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!”

    He fired these conflicting commands in quick succession giving Scott no opportunity to comply with any of them and then fired two rounds at Scott’s chest. As the officer began yelling and Scott realized he was the subject of the commands, he turned, lifting his hands, and apparently tried to follow the legal requirement to immediately inform an officer that he was an armed weapons permit holder, but he didn’t have time.

    The officer’s frantic orders lasted for a slow count of 3 and were immediately followed by the two gunshots, a momentary pause, and a volley of several more shots. There was no pause or hesitation between the commands and the shots. The first round struck Erik Scott in the heart, the second hit his right thigh. As he collapsed to the ground, two other officers fired 5 more shots into his back. Numerous witnesses reported that they saw Scott turn and declare that he was a permit holder. Many said they could see both of his hands and that he made no threatening move. All agreed that the only gun they saw was the one in Scott’s waistband on his right hip.

    Other witnesses reported that they saw Scott’s body removed by EMTs and saw nothing on the ground except blood and a cell phone, or sun glasses. EMTs reported that they removed Scott’s gun and holster from the waistband of his jeans in the ambulance and that they saw no other gun, yet, after police broke into Scott’s apartment and confiscated the firearms there, the story came out that Scott was carrying two guns that day.

    A picture of the second gun, on the ground near a cell phone, after the blood on the pavement had been cleaned up, is the “proof” that Scott had two guns and pulled one on MPD officers. The store’s video surveillance system inexplicably malfunctioned for the several seconds of the shooting.

    A coroner’s inquest concluded that the shooting was justified, just as a similar inquest had concluded that the gunning down of an unarmed, small-time pot dealer in his apartment a short time before the Scott shooting was ruled to be justified. Just as such coroner’s inquests have concluded that officer involved shootings were justified in 199 out of 200 incidents since 1976.

    Erik Scott’s family has strongly contested the conclusions of the coroner’s inquest and the entire inquest process. They succeeded in getting some changes made to that process, but those changes have been held up by suits from the police union.

    The Scotts filed a wrongful death suit in federal court, but recently dropped that effort, convinced that they had no hope of winning with the system stacked against them.

    Erik Scott’s father, a former Air Force flight test engineer and writer for the prestigious aerospace magazine Aviation Week & Space Technology, has painted a sympathetic, fictionalized portrait of Erik and the events of that day as part of a new novel he is offering in serialized form at ThePermit.blogspot.com in hopes of maintaining awareness of Erik’s tragic death and bringing attention to corruption within the justice system and government of Las Vegas.

    The police have a difficult job. They are put in positions and asked to do things that most of us would run away from, but authority and power must be tempered with responsibility and accountability. For decades lawmakers and courts have built up walls of protection around police and other government workers. It is critical that these public servants be protected from frivolous suits and baseless harassment, but they must be held accountable for their actions and investigations into their activities must be beyond reproach. That is not the case currently.

    When one person’s irrational fear of a peacefully armed man can result in that man being gunned down by police with no consequences for anyone except the victim and his friends and family, something is terribly, terribly wrong. Hoplophobia killed Erik Scott and a corrupt system allowed his accusers and executioners get away with it.[/QUOTE]

    Another soldier wannabe gets away with murder because of the buddy system....

  2. #2
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    Holophobia killed Scott? I blame the Costco security guy.

    Sad story, Scott sounds like he was a good guy.

    Old story.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4483243][url]http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/[/url]



    Another soldier wannabe gets away with murder because of the buddy system....[/QUOTE]

    Totally sucks...... Nothing good here.

    I have a conceal permit but rarely carry. However in the training class and exam you are specifically tested to make sure you understand that ANY private property with a posted policy of NO CONCEAL ALLOWED, trumps your rights.

    He seems a very smart man and unfortunately he should have immediately left the store to lock his gun in his trunk with NO conversation other than YES, I will leave immediately. He was in violation of state law carrying the gun in Costco. The rest just totally sucks.

  4. #4
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    I would like to hear the other side of this story because this version reeks of one sidedness.

    personal jealousy?

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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4483251]Totally sucks...... Nothing good here.

    I have a conceal permit but rarely carry. However in the training class and exam you are specifically tested to make sure you understand that ANY private property with [B]apos ted policy of NO CONCEAL ALLOWED, [/B]trumps your rights.

    He seems a very smart man and unfortunately he should have immediately left the store to lock his gun in his trunk with NO conversation other than YES, I will leave immediately.[B] He was in violation of state law [/B]carrying the gun in Costco. The rest just totally sucks.[/QUOTE]


    =========================================

    Not to be a GMC, but where are these signs posted at Costco? I have looked and never have seen one.

    And I am not sure about where you live but in Arizona Scott was not in violation of state law, hew would have to leave when asked to, and if he refused he would be in violation of trespass. No crime to carry past a no weapons sign at Costco if there was one.

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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4483252]I would like to hear the other side of this story because this version reeks of one sidedness.

    personal jealousy?[/QUOTE]

    ==================================================

    The LEO's were under the impression a man with a gun was being unruly or worse at the local Costco, when they arrived and confronted him they feared for there lives when he made a sudden move, so they fired on him, that's about it.

  7. #7
    Real news.


    [QUOTE]Metro reaches agreement with family of Erik Scott


    Posted: Mar 13, 2012 8:29 PM EDT
    Updated: Mar 13, 2012 8:29 PM EDT
    Posted By Craig Huber, Web Managing Editor - email
    *

    Erik Scott (FOX5 file)
    LAS VEGAS (FOX5) -
    According to a release from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, the department has reached an agreement with the family of Erik Scott.

    Metro says the family has agreed to drop its lawsuit against the department in exchange for Metro's agreement not to pursue reimbursement for legal fees.

    The agreement comes a year-and-a-half after Erik Scott was shot and killed by officers in the Las Vegas Costco store located at 801 South Pavilion.

    While a coroner's inquest jury unanimously ruled the shooting justifiable in Sept. 2010, Scott's family has maintained officers could have handled things differently.

    "As sheriff, my hope is that the Scott case has shown the community that it is best to reserve judgment until a thorough investigation can be done," Metro Sheriff Doug Gillespie said. "Although the Scott family dropped their lawsuit, at the end of the day we still have a family who grieves the loss of their son and brother."

    According to police, officers were called to the Costco by a store worker who said Scott had a gun and was destroying merchandise.

    Police say when they arrived they saw Scott outside the store.

    The officers say they identified themselves, but say Scott reached for the gun.

    That's when three officers fired multiple times, killing Scott.

    An autopsy later showed Scott had lethal levels of prescription drugs in his system at the time he was shot.

    During the coroner's inquest, Metro Officers William Mosher, Joshua Stark and Thomas Mendiola testified that they fired on Scott because they saw him make a threatening motion toward Mosher.

    However, several witnesses also testified that Scott never pulled his gun out of his waistband.

    Scott's family filed a wrongful death suit against Costco, Metro and Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie.


    [/QUOTE]

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    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;4483243][url]http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-down-man-for-legally-carrying-firearm/[/url]



    Another soldier wannabe gets away with murder because of the buddy system....[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like a bunch of cops overreacted according to that article, but then again the source also seems to have a strong bias.

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    [QUOTE=gunnails;4483253]=========================================

    Not to be a GMC, but where are these signs posted at Costco? I have looked and never have seen one.

    And I am not sure about where you live but in Arizona Scott was not in violation of state law, hew would have to leave when asked to, and if he refused he would be in violation of trespass. No crime to carry past a no weapons sign at Costco if there was one.[/QUOTE]

    Interestingly...in NEVADA you are correct. I googled it and read it. A posted sign does not carry the force of law but if asked to leave, you must. I would post the link but it's a pain on an IPAD.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=adb280z;4483258]Sounds like a bunch of cops overreacted according to that article, but then again the source also seems to have a strong bias.[/QUOTE]

    His autopsy showed lethal levels of prescription drugs.

  11. #11
    I wonder if the cops were tested for drugs and or 'roids....

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4483252]
    personal jealousy?[/QUOTE]

    The store's loss prevention officer was probably a loser wannabe cop who couldn't get within 100 yards of a legal carry permit.

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    [QUOTE=shakin318;4483473]The store's loss prevention officer was probably a loser wannabe cop who couldn't get within 100 yards of a legal carry permit.[/QUOTE]

    Oh OK, didn't understand that at all.

    That whole piece was poorly written.

  14. #14
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    I think carrying a gun, whether you are a cop or a civilian, comes with great responsibility. Since you have to have a membership with Costco to be in there or with someone that has one I wonder if the membership agreement has a no weapons line in it.

    As Southpark said, if he had just said OK and left with his gun and/or locked it in his car the situation would have been diffused.

    It is easy to Monday Morning QB but aren't cops trained to state only 1 command at a time? Hell the NJ Rutgers SAFETY certification course that is required for people coaching kids in most towns here details that if you want kids to comply with your instructions you should break it down into simple instructions and give one at a time. You would think that would be important for cops in high stress/critical life and death situations. I know, easy to say but I have read and seen on videos more often than not that cops yell emotional conflicting instructions and god forbid you dare ask for clarification. PUT YOUR HANDS where I can see them! GET OUT OF THE CAR!! Umm, explain how that can be done.

    The missing security footage added to the complicity of the security guard in escalating matters really brings all of the other statements by the cops into question. Sadly this is another case of someone being killed and no one other than the witnesses really having an idea of what happened that day.

  15. #15
    The family dropped their lawsuit because they didn't want to pay the pd back for defense costs. What does that tell everyone? The guy was high and irrational and had a gun.

    [QUOTE=Trades;4483498]I think carrying a gun, whether you are a cop or a civilian, comes with great responsibility. Since you have to have a membership with Costco to be in there or with someone that has one I wonder if the membership agreement has a no weapons line in it.

    As Southpark said, if he had just said OK and left with his gun and/or locked it in his car the situation would have been diffused.

    It is easy to Monday Morning QB but aren't cops trained to state only 1 command at a time? Hell the NJ Rutgers SAFETY certification course that is required for people coaching kids in most towns here details that if you want kids to comply with your instructions you should break it down into simple instructions and give one at a time. You would think that would be important for cops in high stress/critical life and death situations. I know, easy to say but I have read and seen on videos more often than not that cops yell emotional conflicting instructions and god forbid you dare ask for clarification. PUT YOUR HANDS where I can see them! GET OUT OF THE CAR!! Umm, explain how that can be done.

    The missing security footage added to the complicity of the security guard in escalating matters really brings all of the other statements by the cops into question. Sadly this is another case of someone being killed and no one other than the witnesses really having an idea of what happened that day.[/QUOTE]

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    [QUOTE=cr726;4483500]The family dropped their lawsuit because they didn't want to pay the pd back for defense costs. What does that tell everyone? The guy was high and irrational and had a gun.[/QUOTE]

    It tells me that they probably got a settlement, realized that they could lose and it could add insult to injury and cut their losses instead of fighting the government. I would love to hear more information about the missing video. Was there any other missing time on the tape that would lead us to believe that it was normal for this system and not intentional?

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Trades;4483513]It tells me that they probably got a settlement, realized that they could lose and it could add insult to injury and cut their losses instead of fighting the government. I would love to hear more information about the missing video. Was there any other missing time on the tape that would lead us to believe that it was normal for this system and not intentional?[/QUOTE]

    Their settlement was not having to pay for the police departments lawyer fees. The case has been reviewed but a lot of others, it's over and it's not a romantic ending.

  18. #18
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    I'm just curious, if he had "lethal levels of prescription medication", what medication was it, and why was he not (as implied in the word "Lethal") already dead?

    The Families best case was to sue the CostCo. They would have settled for a reasonable sum, as thats almost always cheaper that the bad PR and court costs for them.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=Warfish;4483560]I'm just curious, if he had "lethal levels of prescription medication", what medication was it, and why was he not (as implied in the word "Lethal") already dead?

    The Families best case was to sue the CostCo. They would have settled for a reasonable sum, as thats almost always cheaper that the bad PR and court costs for them.[/QUOTE]


    What happened was horrible, but this Monday morning qb is not the answer.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4483579]What happened was horrible, but this Monday morning qb is not the answer.[/QUOTE]

    Why not? Isn't that exactly what we're doing in the Travon Martin case, in both the courts of Public Opinion and the actual Courts?

    The difference here is the perpetrators of the killing are, to some degree, protected by the system they serve. A full and measured review of the events, what caused them, and who may or may be responsible is always appropriate, even for our Public Servants. If for no other reason that to improve the system itself to reduce the chances of something like this happening again.

    If someone supplied false or misleading information to the Police and that act led to the killing of the individual, thats worth persuing as well.

    I also find the result that he had "lethal levels of meds" to be interesting, and something I'd like to know more about.

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