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Thread: Ecstatic for Stephen Hill

  1. #41
    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;4488971]So explain the Aikman Cowboys. They had a franchise QB, taken 1. They had a great HOF WR etc, etc and were a ground and pound team.

    Worked kind of well there.:yes:[/QUOTE]


    If the Jets can emulate the '90s Cowboys in this day and age, go for it.

  2. #42
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4488943]Tinstar makes the excellent point as to how the OC can be a "pass first OC on the wrong team" when the Jets traded up to grab a QB at #5 overall, by all accounts the second-highest rated QB in the draft, and not be interested in being "pass first."

    That's a huge fundamental question about the Rex era, and particularly the current upcoming season with a new OC and the publicly stated commitment to "Ground n Pound." Everything points to Sanchize putting up decent numbers in a simpler offense with an offense geared to the ground and blocking, with the occasional Sanchez long pass. Nothing speaks to Sanchez running this offense, but merely playing a complementary role. Is that what people envisioned when he was drafted?[/QUOTE]

    It's what Rex envisioned. Rex has never wanted anything other than a ball control offense. He believes 17 points should be enough to win the game.


    Coaches that want to having a high flying passing attack are willing to let young QBs throw interceptions as they learn how to play the game with an aggressive mindset.

    Peyton Manning (Sanchez is not Peyton, we all know this) threw 28 INTs his rookie season. Can anyone here imagine Rex being OK with Sanchez throwing that many picks in his first year?

    Of course, Peyton developed quickly. His brother Eli, on the other hand...

    Eli Manning's INT rate [I]increased[/I] every year from 2005 to 2007. He threw more, and more, and more interceptions; while his positive production (TDs, yards, ypa) remained stagnant. And even in 2010, he threw a league leading 25 INTs, with an INT rate of 4.6% (which was just as high as it had been his rookie year).

    If you have a young QB and you want to build an explosive passing game with them, you have to be willing to let them throw the game away, over and over and over again, and hope that it pays off down the road. The focus should be on making plays. Once the positive production reaches a certain level, then you work on eliminating the mistakes. You spend too much time harping on the mistakes and you create a gunshy QB, which we may very well have begun to see last season.



    It's far better to have a QB that's too aggressive than one that's too conservative.

    That's the mindset of an offensive coach. I don't think there's any way that Rex would agree with the above statement. That's what Steve Young was talking about when he said that one of the problems with the Jets offense is that they're told "don't screw it up." That's not the mindset that any good offense has. The mindset should be to make as many big plays and score as many points as possible. From 1999-2001, the Rams were the "Greatest Show on Turf," the most explosive offense in NFL history, in my opinion. They had 31 turnovers in '99, 35 turnovers in '00, and 44 turnovers in '01.



    In hindsight, the combination of the Rex hire and Sanchez pick is an example of dissonance within the Jets organization. It was further compounded by keeping Schottenheimer onboard. We the philosophies of the OC and defensive coaching staff didn't go together, the QB and the offensive philosophy didn't fit, and the head coach's philosophy wasn't conducive to the development of a naturally aggressive young QB (the two biggest knocks on Sanchez were that he only started one year and that he tried to force the ball downfield too often).

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;4488971]So explain the Aikman Cowboys. They had a franchise QB, taken 1. They had a great HOF WR etc, etc and were a ground and pound team.

    Worked kind of well there.:yes:[/QUOTE]

    That was a different era. The salary cap was only introduced in 1994. The offensive line was the key to that team and they wouldn't be able to keep that group and all of the other great players together in today's NFL.

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;4488760]Not that big a deal, but the top 1/3 of any position don't have 4.3 speed. There are only a handful, if that, corners with that kind of speed. And that doesn't mean they have the cover skills to blanket a WR with 4.6 speed.

    ANd on top of all that it's football speed we need to see. None of us have yet. Moss was fast on the field, could care less what his 40 time was. The difference between the 2 isn't worth comparing. 4.2 vs 4.3 is meaningless. Coles and S Moss were just as fast as Moss in the 40. Neither played as fast on the field or maintained it.

    The rest is spot on, Moss was amazing. Can't compare Hill to Moss[/QUOTE]

    All I meant was that I'd expect the top 1/3 of cb's to be able to stay with Hill.
    No cb's could cover Randy Moss in his prime.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;4488971]So explain the Aikman Cowboys. They had a franchise QB, taken 1. They had a great HOF WR etc, etc and were a ground and pound team.

    Worked kind of well there.:yes:[/QUOTE]

    Why,you seem to know all the answers.

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=SBIII;4488571]He just looks the part, now let's see him beast out.

    Very excited to see him catch the long ball..[/QUOTE]

    I will be very excited to see if Mark Sanchez, one of the more inaccurate passers in the NFL, can hit him in stride. I doubt it. Doesn't matter how good the receiver is---it takes two to make a completion.

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4488988]It's what Rex envisioned. Rex has never wanted anything other than a ball control offense. He believes 17 points should be enough to win the game.


    Coaches that want to having a high flying passing attack are willing to let young QBs throw interceptions as they learn how to play the game with an aggressive mindset.

    Peyton Manning (Sanchez is not Peyton, we all know this) threw 28 INTs his rookie season. Can anyone here imagine Rex being OK with Sanchez throwing that many picks in his first year?

    Of course, Peyton developed quickly. His brother Eli, on the other hand...

    Eli Manning's INT rate [I]increased[/I] every year from 2005 to 2007. He threw more, and more, and more interceptions; while his positive production (TDs, yards, ypa) remained stagnant. And even in 2010, he threw a league leading 25 INTs, with an INT rate of 4.6% (which was just as high as it had been his rookie year).

    If you have a young QB and you want to build an explosive passing game with them, you have to be willing to let them throw the game away, over and over and over again, and hope that it pays off down the road. The focus should be on making plays. Once the positive production reaches a certain level, then you work on eliminating the mistakes. You spend too much time harping on the mistakes and you create a gunshy QB, which we may very well have begun to see last season.



    It's far better to have a QB that's too aggressive than one that's too conservative.

    That's the mindset of an offensive coach. I don't think there's any way that Rex would agree with the above statement. That's what Steve Young was talking about when he said that one of the problems with the Jets offense is that they're told "don't screw it up." That's not the mindset that any good offense has. The mindset should be to make as many big plays and score as many points as possible. From 1999-2001, the Rams were the "Greatest Show on Turf," the most explosive offense in NFL history, in my opinion. They had 31 turnovers in '99, 35 turnovers in '00, and 44 turnovers in '01.



    In hindsight, the combination of the Rex hire and Sanchez pick is an example of dissonance within the Jets organization. It was further compounded by keeping Schottenheimer onboard. We the philosophies of the OC and defensive coaching staff didn't go together, the QB and the offensive philosophy didn't fit, and the head coach's philosophy wasn't conducive to the development of a naturally aggressive young QB (the two biggest knocks on Sanchez were that he only started one year and that he tried to force the ball downfield too often).[/QUOTE]

    You summed up the problem--Rex is thinking Retro in the new age of high powered offenses! The man needs to adapt.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4488985]If the Jets can emulate the '90s Cowboys in this day and age, go for it.[/QUOTE]

    Not the point, really didn't come close to addressing the question. seems to be a reoccurring theme.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Tinstar;4489021]Why,you seem to know all the answers.[/QUOTE]

    Or more accurately, you don't have any.

    Nice response to a simple question.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=JB1089;4488990]That was a different era. The salary cap was only introduced in 1994. The offensive line was the key to that team and they wouldn't be able to keep that group and all of the other great players together in today's NFL.[/QUOTE]

    The OL on that team was built for running the ball with a LT who could run block just as well as he could Pass block.Also,the Cowboys had Aikman,Ervin,Harper and Novachek(sp) as receivers to keep the defense honest.

    The Jets had/have who exactly.They drafted a QB to throw the ball because they had an OC who featured a passing offense.

    CBTNY has an interesting take that i found telling.How can you be a smash mouth running team with Finesse OLmen.Our LT can't run block.Our LG can't pull and our RT is who exactly.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=JB1089;4488990]That was a different era. The salary cap was only introduced in 1994. The offensive line was the key to that team and they wouldn't be able to keep that group and all of the other great players together in today's NFL.[/QUOTE]

    None of this has anything to do with the point.

    The cowboys were built with a number 1 pick QB, a HOF WR and still were a run first team.

    So the point is just because we used a 5 on a QB etc, doesn't mean we can't run first.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4489023]I will be very excited to see if Mark Sanchez, [B]one of the more inaccurate passers in the NFL[/B], can hit him in stride. I doubt it. Doesn't matter how good the receiver is---it takes two to make a completion.[/QUOTE]

    So I guess you're REALLY excited to see Tebow throw him the ball?

    :rolleyes:

    _

  13. #53
    [QUOTE=JB1089;4488988]It's what Rex envisioned. Rex has never wanted anything other than a ball control offense. He believes 17 points should be enough to win the game.


    Coaches that want to having a high flying passing attack are willing to let young QBs throw interceptions as they learn how to play the game with an aggressive mindset.

    Peyton Manning (Sanchez is not Peyton, we all know this) threw 28 INTs his rookie season. Can anyone here imagine Rex being OK with Sanchez throwing that many picks in his first year?

    Of course, Peyton developed quickly. His brother Eli, on the other hand...

    Eli Manning's INT rate [I]increased[/I] every year from 2005 to 2007. He threw more, and more, and more interceptions; while his positive production (TDs, yards, ypa) remained stagnant. And even in 2010, he threw a league leading 25 INTs, with an INT rate of 4.6% (which was just as high as it had been his rookie year).

    If you have a young QB and you want to build an explosive passing game with them, you have to be willing to let them throw the game away, over and over and over again, and hope that it pays off down the road. The focus should be on making plays. Once the positive production reaches a certain level, then you work on eliminating the mistakes. You spend too much time harping on the mistakes and you create a gunshy QB, which we may very well have begun to see last season.



    It's far better to have a QB that's too aggressive than one that's too conservative.

    That's the mindset of an offensive coach. I don't think there's any way that Rex would agree with the above statement. That's what Steve Young was talking about when he said that one of the problems with the Jets offense is that they're told "don't screw it up." That's not the mindset that any good offense has. The mindset should be to make as many big plays and score as many points as possible. From 1999-2001, the Rams were the "Greatest Show on Turf," the most explosive offense in NFL history, in my opinion. They had 31 turnovers in '99, 35 turnovers in '00, and 44 turnovers in '01.



    In hindsight, the combination of the Rex hire and Sanchez pick is an example of dissonance within the Jets organization. It was further compounded by keeping Schottenheimer onboard. We the philosophies of the OC and defensive coaching staff didn't go together, the QB and the offensive philosophy didn't fit, and the head coach's philosophy wasn't conducive to the development of a naturally aggressive young QB (the two biggest knocks on Sanchez were that he only started one year and that he tried to force the ball downfield too often).[/QUOTE]


    Please post more. There are few like you around here.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4488604]Yeah, but Chaz Schillens has been around a while now. He's about to finally break out and live up to (your) expectations. Expect at least 40 touchdowns out of him this year.[/QUOTE]
    LOL.

    Chaz Schillens will regret leaving the Raiders, if he had stayed somehow he would have Magically scored 40-50 touchdowns in that most Explosive offense with all the Explosive Raiders WR and most Explosive RBs and TEs and FBs in the league.

  15. #55
    I'd be curious to hear from X/O guys who have been visiting OTAs whether the O-Line is running zone or man blocking sets. Sparano is supposed to be a man-blocking guy, and emphasis on size/strength over athleticism w/r/t hype of Vlad, Griffin, and Howard would seem to suggest man-blocking, but the poster above is correct. This line, as is, is a finesse line built for zone runs and pass-blocking. I don't think the personnel are ideally suited to pure power blocking.

  16. #56
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    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m3P4mVHr0E[/url]

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkre7RcyNKo[/url]

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=FijiJet;4489066]LOL.

    Chaz Schillens will regret leaving the Raiders, if he had stayed somehow he would have Magically scored 40-50 touchdowns in that most Explosive offense with all the Explosive Raiders WR and most Explosive RBs and TEs and FBs in the league.[/QUOTE]
    They're so explosive, the Raiders should just change their name to the C4's

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=Austin;4488755]I'd take the over on 30 receptions.

    Two catches a game is 32 receptions... If he starts (likely) and doesn't miss a ton of time, does anyone think there's any possible way he averages less than two catches per game? If so we're in HUGE trouble.[/QUOTE]

    It rarely first year wr come in and have much impact. Wr that had very big years in college and came from passing offenses struggle their first couple years. ( now a guy that came from a limit passing offense your going to expect alot more)


    I have to go with the under ( 20 receptions) as Jets are going to be running it alot and they have to get the ball to S Holmes and D Keller first. He will be a glorified decoy most of 2012.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 06-11-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  19. #59
    First, I enjoyed the post and it is well thought out.

    However, I disagree.

    The issue isn't Rex and Sanchez, it is Rex and Schotty. Rex wants a the qb to be a game manager who can do more over time. Think Pittsburgh.

    Schotty needed a veteran qb (with Sanchez spending 2 years on the bench learning). So the plan worked in years 1-2 because even Schotty understood that Sanchez had to be brought along slowly. It broke down last year when Sanchez was supposed to step it up to be the "aggressive" qb. Whether the issue in year 3 was Sanchez or a series of poor personnel decisions by Tanny (or both) is not clear.

    We all know the litany. OL regressed. WR's were inadequate. Sanchez spent a lot of time running for his life. None of this was conducive to taking the next step as the "aggressive" qb.

    I am not a Schotty hater. He was right to leave because the Jets/Rex want to be a run first team. He can be an outstanding coordinator or maybe HC but he needs the GM to support what he wants to do. With Rex in control, Tanny had to focus the player acquisitions to Rex's plans.

    So now we get to see what happens when the HC and OC are on the same page. That alone should help the players.

    Whether we have solved the OL and WR issues remains to be seen. The moves on the WR group look good. We have to cross our fingers on the OL

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4489071][URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m3P4mVHr0E[/URL]

    [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkre7RcyNKo[/URL][/QUOTE]

    ha ha ha; I am so ready for this season. :rockon:

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