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Thread: Ecstatic for Stephen Hill

  1. #141
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    [QUOTE=FF2;4489132][QUOTE=Mohegangreen;4488593]Reminds me of Randy Moss as a rookie, just let him use that speed to beat people deep and [B]tell Sanchez to throw it at as high and far as he can..[[/B]/QUOTE]

    23 yards? :confused:[/QUOTE]

    The strength of Sanchez's arm has never been a problem, douche

  2. #142
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    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4489524]Hey.....I look the part. Just sayin.[/QUOTE]

    Seriously doubt you look the part

  3. #143
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    Did Mohegangreen just call himself a douche? :eek:

  4. #144
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4490558]Not necessarily.

    For starters, I don't think Holmes can have any worse reception and yardage totals than last year.

    PFTX pretty much lays out what I was going to say. From a philosophical standpoint, the defenses can't cheat up on the line like last year. That coupled with an added emphasis on getting Holmes in the gameplan week to week will have him seeing more targets, but more importantly it will have him seeing passes with more room to operate after the catch. As low as his reception and yardage totals were last year, his YAC was absolutely putrid. Very un-Holmes like and that can be attributed to a lack any semblance of a deep threat opposite him.






    Solid post. The only thing I slightly disagree with are the reception totals simply because I don't think he will be playing a high enough percentage of snaps.[/QUOTE]
    I still can't see how Holmes will have significantly increased success if Hill isn't out there to stretch the field for him. That was the main
    issue last season.

    Without Hill as the #2, that's not solved. Unless Schilens evolves into the #2 or BE is signed.

  5. #145
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    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;4490697]Did Mohegangreen just call himself a douche? :eek:[/QUOTE]
    Haha, meant towards ff2

  6. #146
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    [QUOTE=Mohegangreen;4490759]Haha, meant towards ff2[/QUOTE]

    You pfail at quoting.

    _

  7. #147
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    [QUOTE=JStokes;4490762]You pfail at quoting.

    _[/QUOTE]
    Si, a bit of a miscommunicado

  8. #148
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4490729]I still can't see how Holmes will have significantly increased success if Hill isn't out there to stretch the field for him. That was the main
    issue last season.

    Without Hill as the #2, that's not solved. Unless Schilens evolves into the #2 or BE is signed.[/QUOTE]

    Why I disagree:

    1) If nothing else, I think the coaching staff will purposely try to put the ball in Holmes's hands more often, even if it means a semi-contested pass. We have to be able to let this guy make plays. If not, what the hell did we pay him for? He's not a pure deep threat, but we have to take chances with him down the field every once in a while. On the very rare instances we did that, the benefit far outweighed the risk. Three specific examples of this I remember are in the first Dolphins game, the first Bills game, and the Redskins game... the first two led to DPI or holding penalties. The last two were set up by a perfect double move by Santonio, something we need to see even more of this year. He's a ridiculously good route runner. And if the worst case scenario happens on that play, I'd much rather have an INT 30-40 yards down the field than friggin' 5 yards past the LOS like we saw last year. With the way the fifi boy rules are in place on defensive contact it is beneficial to attempt, at minimum, a few of these passes a game. And I don't think those passes should be limited to Hill and Hill only.

    2) You know Hill doesn't have to run a clear out pattern every play in order for Holmes to be open? And Schilens for all his flaws, is still a fast receiver. Anything is better than the cement shoes Plaxico when we're talking about outside the 20 yard line.

    3) I don't think Hill has to be the #2 WR for 95% of the snaps for Holmes to benefit. Even if it's 75% Hill and the other 25% for Schilens, Holmes really won't be adversely affected by it IMO.

    4) But yes, the bigger and more immediate impact Hill has for this offense will pay immense dividends. I'm just a little more cautious about his 2012 playing time and stats. However, I don't think we disagree on his level of immediate impact.

  9. #149
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4490873]Why I disagree:

    1) If nothing else, I think the coaching staff will purposely try to put the ball in Holmes's hands more often, even if it means a semi-contested pass. We have to be able to let this guy make plays. If not, what the hell did we pay him for? He's not a pure deep threat, but we have to take chances with him down the field every once in a while. On the very rare instances we did that, the benefit far outweighed the risk. Three specific examples of this I remember are in the first Dolphins game, the first Bills game, and the Redskins game... the first two led to DPI or holding penalties. The last two were set up by a perfect double move by Santonio, something we need to see even more of this year. He's a ridiculously good route runner. And if the worst case scenario happens on that play, I'd much rather have an INT 30-40 yards down the field than friggin' 5 yards past the LOS like we saw last year. With the way the fifi boy rules are in place on defensive contact it is beneficial to attempt, at minimum, a few of these passes a game. And I don't think those passes should be limited to Hill and Hill only.

    2) You know Hill doesn't have to run a clear out pattern every play in order for Holmes to be open? And Schilens for all his flaws, is still a fast receiver. Anything is better than the cement shoes Plaxico when we're talking about outside the 20 yard line.

    3) I don't think Hill has to be the #2 WR for 95% of the snaps for Holmes to benefit. Even if it's 75% Hill and the other 25% for Schilens, Holmes really won't be adversely affected by it IMO.

    4) But yes, the bigger and more immediate impact Hill has for this offense will pay immense dividends. I'm just a little more cautious about his 2012 playing time and stats. However, I don't think we disagree on his level of immediate impact.[/QUOTE]

    Why couldn't Holmes get separation last year?

  10. #150
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4490979]Why couldn't Holmes get separation last year?[/QUOTE]

    Tough to get separation when you are always running 5-yard slants.

  11. #151
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4490980]Tough to get separation when you are always running 5-yard slants.[/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    And when opposing defenses don't have to account for anyone running deeper than 15 yards, all 11 men can play close to the LOS and you can allocate another defender to focus on Holmes, the only player opposing coordinators truly have to gameplan for.

    Holmes can get separation, there's no doubt about it. I think the "can't get separation" narrative is a lazy and overused expression to explain a lack of production from a receiver. Is it true in some cases? Of course, but it's not so with Holmes. He's an excellent route runner and is supremely quick in and out of his breaks, so gaining separation is hardly an issue. He just needs more 1 on 1 opportunities. Injecting speed opposite him will give him more chances to see those 1 on 1's.

  12. #152
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4490984]Yep.

    And when opposing defenses don't have to account for anyone running deeper than 15 yards, all 11 men can play close to the LOS and you can allocate another defender to focus on Holmes, the only player opposing coordinators truly have to gameplan for.

    Holmes can get separation, there's no doubt about it. I think the "can't get separation" narrative is a lazy and overused expression to explain a lack of production from a receiver. Is it true in some cases? Of course, but it's not so with Holmes. He's an excellent route runner and is supremely quick in and out of his breaks, so gaining separation is hardly an issue. He just needs more 1 on 1 opportunities. [B]Injecting speed opposite him will give him more chances to see those 1 on 1's[/B].[/QUOTE]
    Exactly.

    That's why Hill needs to be the #2.

  13. #153
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4490984]Yep.

    And when opposing defenses don't have to account for anyone running deeper than 15 yards, all 11 men can play close to the LOS and you can allocate another defender to focus on Holmes, the only player opposing coordinators truly have to gameplan for.

    Holmes can get separation, there's no doubt about it. I think the "can't get separation" narrative is a lazy and overused expression to explain a lack of production from a receiver. Is it true in some cases? Of course, but it's not so with Holmes. He's an excellent route runner and is supremely quick in and out of his breaks, so gaining separation is hardly an issue. He just needs more 1 on 1 opportunities. Injecting speed opposite him will give him more chances to see those 1 on 1's.[/QUOTE]

    +1 add in double coverage on most plays.

  14. #154
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4490993]Exactly.

    That's why Hill needs to be the #2.[/QUOTE]

    Right, but if he struggles to pick up the playbook, read defenses, gettin off the press, etc. (all serious possibilities) then he won't be playing as much as we desire. Remember, Schilens is fast too even though he is far from a good player.

    Hill's readiness for prime time will go a long way in determining the success of the offense this year. Hope he stays healthy in TC. And son, get yo' ass to Jets West.

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