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Thread: If I hear the term "Boom or Bust" One more time...

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4490406]"Boom or Bust" is an expression used by people who really haven't a clue about what will happen but who want to be sure to cover all eventualities so they can still be right in any case. I think the far more egregious sin is to be a blatantly pessimistic fan who always sees the glass as 3/4 empty, but who simultaneously claims he'll be happy if he's proven wrong. The first is empty; the second is cowardly.[/QUOTE]

    Excellent post!!!

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Charlie Brown;4490324]Did you not read my post I like Lucas and he is often critical so what.

    Here in this instance IMO Lucas is wrong. He has had an agenda since the Jets didn't draft the player he wanted them to draft and he is allowing that to effect his analysis.

    Indeed Lucas called Coples a bust when the Jets drafted him!! Said that it would be a surprize if Coples played well.

    [SIZE="4"][B]Why isn't Lucas commenting on Coples steller play on the field so far; why is he even mentioned as a bust when he is playing crazy well in camp so far? [/B][/SIZE]

    It is a joke and you can't see that him calling a player a bust without a shred of evidencce to the contrary is silly and insane.

    Based on your defense of Lucas and the silly logic he imployed you could call any player a boom or bust who is a rookie in training camp!!!:eek:

    Good Grief....[/QUOTE]

    My point in a nutshell....

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4490404]Ballard was a head scratcher. From all reports, he will not play a down in 2012.

    Then he becomes a FA. So if the Pats want to keep him, they have to re-sign him.

    Not sure what the Pats thought process was on this one.[/QUOTE]


    Ballard will be an exclusive rights free agent in 2013, so the Pats get first dibs and can keep him on the cheap. I think he's just an insurance policy in case Hernandez wants to hold out next summer or in the minuscule chance that Gronkowski's back/neck problems from college reer its ugly head.

    Seems like a no harm, no foul move to me. Stash him on IR. If his health doesn't improve, toss him to the side. If not, you got insurance at worst.

  4. #44
    [url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/audio.php?file=boom0001&word=boom&text=%5C%3CSPAN%20class%3Dunicode%3E%CB%88%3C%2FSPAN%3Eb%C3%BCm%5C#]:)[/url]

    [url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/audio.php?file=bust_101&word=bust&text=%5C%3CSPAN%20class%3Dunicode%3E%CB%88%3C%2FSPAN%3Eb%C9%99st%5C#]:([/url]

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Jet Black;4490464]Wow, and just how did you come to that conclusion?? I don't care who disagrees if with me, I just hope it based on some kind of sound argument and intelligent debate, rather than someone spouting how the "experts" know more than we mere fans do etc, etc. I don't know about you but I have a brain and I think I am allowed to use it and apply critical thinking. I mean why even bother having a conversation at all? The "experts" have spoken that is the end of that! LOL, you gotta be kidding me Man.

    BTW, do you really think Lucas spent time breaking down film watching Coples play over his entire College career? I seriously doubt it. Lucas had a hard on for Ingram; the Jets took Coples and he still not over it. As another poster already said, if he was paying attention, to CURRENT EVENTS he could at least acknowledge that Coples has LOOKED IMPRESSIVE SO FAR, rather than dwell on some stupid, moronic label.

    Sorry if that makes you think I am calling you an idiot; I am not.[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough.

    BTW, I know I said "OP" but I really wasn't referring to you per say. What I meant was that is what the thread was becoming based on some of the responses.

    "Boom or Bust" is often used by draft experts. Even JI's resident expert has used that phrase to describe players. So I strongly disagree with what leprechaun said. Nobody knows for sure about any player. All we have are opinions at this point.

    For the record, I support the Coples pick. I have supported the pick drom day 1. I think he will be a solid player for us. But what he has done in OTAs and minicamp means jack sh!t. That is why they don't comment on it. At the very least, a high draft pick should be able to perform in practice. Real NFL games is entirely different. Rex has been raving about Ducasse, do you think that means he will be a good player? Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. We are on overload with every little twitter update and every time someone hears Coples got a sack in drills they cream in their pants. A sack in team drills and a sack in an NFL game are lightyears apart.

    Basically my point was the everyone is entitled to their opinion about Coples. He is not a "can't miss" by any stretch of the imagination. And Ray Lucas is not an idiot. He is not an expert either. Also people need to understand that he might go a little over the top for the purposes of television.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 06-13-2012 at 10:28 AM.

  6. #46
    [QUOTE=Jet Black;4490221]To describe Quinton Coples I am going to lose it! I was watching Jets Nation on SNY and Lucas (who really seems like he is off his Meds), is asked about Coples by Brian Custer and the first thing he says is "He is a boom or bust player" for like the 90 millionth time!!!!

    Just what the hell does that even mean? [B]So if Coples goes on to have a nice but not spectacular career and plays 6 or 7 years he is a bust??? :confused: NEWSFLASH: The dude was picked 16 NOT 6!![/B]

    For the record I think Coples is going to be a BEAST, but I am so sick of this either or scenerio; if he is not GREAT, than it was a bad pick.

    Then it is mentioned that Rex had Coples "standing up" in some defensive sets and the "MOUTH THAT ROARED" says, "if that is what Rex had in mind he should have just taken Ingram"! REALLY?? So the fact that Coples, who is 6'5 285, is VERSATILE enough to play in space is a BAD THING???? Also, we know you have a hard on for Ingram! ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!! GET OVER IT FOR GODS SAKES!!!!

    It is so bad on that show they actually have me missing Greg Buttle and I didn't think that was possible!! :eek:

    I will say I can't remember I a time when I have rooted harder for a player to SHUT UP his critics than with Coples. Personally I see the guy as a "can't miss" player myself, especially based on his overall career and not just "half" of his senior year, and the fact that he has to be motivated to prove the naysayers wrong.[/QUOTE]

    i agree with you pretty much all around.

    but boom or bust means neither of what you are saying...so ray is saying coples will either be a pro bowler or be useless...

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4490475]Ballard will be an [B][U]exclusive rights free agent[/U][/B] in 2013, so the Pats get first dibs and can keep him on the cheap. I think he's just an insurance policy in case Hernandez wants to hold out next summer or in the minuscule chance that Gronkowski's back/neck problems from college reer its ugly head.

    Seems like a no harm, no foul move to me. Stash him on IR. If his health doesn't improve, toss him to the side. If not, you got insurance at worst.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the clarification on this, I thought he would be an UFA.

    Everything you said makes sense.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4490481]Fair enough.

    BTW, I know I said "OP" but I really wasn't referring to you per say. What I meant was that is what the thread was becoming based on some of the responses.

    "Boom or Bust" is often used by draft experts. Even JI's resident expert has used that phrase to describe players. So I strongly disagree with what leprechaun said. Nobody knows for sure about any player. All we have are opinions at this point.

    For the record, I support the Coples pick. I have supported the pick drom day 1. I think he will be a solid player for us. But what he has done in OTAs and minicamp means jack sh!t. That is why they don't comment on it. At the very least, a high draft pick should be able to perform in practice. Real NFL games is entirely different. Rex has been raving about Ducasse, do you think that means he will be a good player? Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. We are on overload with every little twitter update and every time someone hears Coples got a sack in drills they cream in their pants. A sack in team drills and a sack in an NFL game are lightyears apart.

    Basically my point was the everyone is entitled to their opinion about Coples. He is not a "can't miss" by any stretch of the imagination. And Ray Lucas is not an idiot. He is not an expert either. Also people need to understand that he might go a little over the top for the purposes of television.[/QUOTE]

    Fair points; and when I say "can't miss" I am really saying I think he will have a least a decent NFL career. I mean truthfully I guess no player can be considered can't miss until they play an nfl game. I think based upon his overall body of work his just as much a can't miss prospect as 98% of the rest of this draft.

    While get your point about team drills, and playing in an NFL game; to me that is pretty much just common sense and doesn't really need to be stated. I just go by what we have to by TODAY; and today the guy is looking good. Lets be honest, if they were saying he was stinking up the team drills, plenty of folks would no problem calling him a bust.

    BTW, I don't think Ray Lucas is an idiot but he makes idiotic statements sometimes and when he does I will call him on it.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4490418]Boom or bust means all or nothing. Who are these guys that watched Coples every week, and [B]do you think the consensus might come from everyone repeating what the first guy said?[/B] His track record would have to say boom, or pretty good from the information I've seen. [B]Why are so many fans so accepting of whatever garbage they get from "analysts", that haven't actually analyzed anything.[/B] [U]They believe everything they hear no matter how many times they're wrong[/U] then go on sites and whine about those that demand higher standards. I'll never understand it.[/QUOTE]

    +10000000000000000000

    This post is so on point it is just ridiculous....

  10. #50
    [QUOTE=WestCoastOffensive;4490244]Give or take a few, I'd say. In or out; you have to step up to be counted, and be counted on. Up or down, I think Quinton Coples will boom.[/QUOTE]
    +1

    Like Ali said, Coples will "lower the boom" on qbs and critics alike.

    If he could only do it on the trolls that are squatting on JI, that would be really something

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=Jet Black;4490522]Fair points; and when I say "can't miss" I am really saying I think he will have a least a decent NFL career. I mean truthfully I guess no player can be considered can't miss until they play an nfl game. I think based upon his overall body of work his just as much a can't miss prospect as 98% of the rest of this draft.

    While get your point about team drills, and playing in an NFL game; to me that is pretty much just common sense and doesn't really need to be stated. I just go by what we have to by TODAY; and today the guy is looking good. [B]Lets be honest, if they were saying he was stinking up the team drills, plenty of folks would no problem calling him a bust.[/B]

    BTW, I don't think Ray Lucas is an idiot but he makes idiotic statements sometimes and when he does I will call him on it.[/QUOTE]

    Lucas is basically just a ranting Jet fan. If you go back a couple of years you will find episodes where he is just a complete homer gushing about the Jets. He is an emotional guy. He was IN LOVE with Ingram. Ray Lucas is the least of our problems. I actually get a kick out of him sometimes even if I disagree with him. He gets so aggravated on TV sometimes it is funny.

    I agree with you that all we have to go off of is what we see in mini camp and OTAs right now. And apparently he looks great. I am stoked about this kid. I think having Dunbar as his coach will give him a real leg up. Plus he already has a history with Wilk. So I am sure Wilk is going help him with the transition to the NFL. Very excited about our DL.

    But if a guy sucks in practice, chances are he is going to suck in the game. But you can still be great in practice and suck in a game. There is a little bit of a double-standard there but it is correct. We just don't know. Gholston is still fresh in everyone's minds.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4491206]Lucas is basically just a ranting Jet fan. If you go back a couple of years you will find episodes where he is just a complete homer gushing about the Jets. He is an emotional guy. He was IN LOVE with Ingram. Ray Lucas is the least of our problems. I actually get a kick out of him sometimes even if I disagree with him. He gets so aggravated on TV sometimes it is funny.

    I agree with you that all we have to go off of is what we see in mini camp and OTAs right now. And apparently he looks great. I am stoked about this kid. I think having Dunbar as his coach will give him a real leg up. Plus he already has a history with Wilk. So I am sure Wilk is going help him with the transition to the NFL. Very excited about our DL.

    But if a guy sucks in practice, chances are he is going to suck in the game. But you can still be great in practice and suck in a game. There is a little bit of a double-standard there but it is correct. We just don't know. Gholston is still fresh in everyone's minds.[/QUOTE]
    He is already ahead of the game in my book. With Vernon Gholston we never heard a single peep about him for three years. Not in the preseason or regular season or practices, we never heard about Gholston getting to the QB or even disrupting plays. We are already hearing those things about Coples from Day-1, practice-1. Just as we did with John Abraham back in the day. That does not mean I am comparing Coples to Abe because I am not. I am simply saying that the early signs are good and that Coples does not appear to have performed a post-draft disappearing act.

  13. #53
    Its the term "Boom or Bust" that drives me nuts. Isn't every pick in the draft boom or bust? How many top 5 picks over the years have gone on to have poor careers at every position. I can think of Steve Emtman, Tony Mandarich and Ryan Leif without even trying. I think the only valid criticisms of a pick are that it came to early, the player is a poor fit for the scheme or the team overlooked something important in their research on a player. Other than that, its a largely a crap-shoot.

    I was a little mystified by the Coples pick until I looked into it a bit deeper and now it makes sense to me. If it doesn't work out, it still makes sense because I see what the Jets were going for. Good luck to the kid.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=EM31;4491212]He is already ahead of the game in my book. With Vernon Gholston we never heard a single peep about him for three years. Not in the preseason or regular season or practices, we never heard about Gholston getting to the QB or even disrupting plays. We are already hearing those things about Coples from Day-1, practice-1. Just as we did with John Abraham back in the day. That does not mean I am comparing Coples to Abe because I am not. I am simply saying that the early signs are good and that Coples does not appear to have performed a post-draft disappearing act.[/QUOTE]

    Coples was the best player on the field during the Senior Bowl and supposedly he has been playing great in the practices. As far as the Abe comparisons go I think Coples has a chance to be a much better player - it's sounding like Coples can actually play against the run very effectively.

    I cannot wait to see these clowns on ESPN and the sports media in general eat a crow buffet next several years regarding Coples.

  15. #55
    Boom or Bust.....How about Boustomb or Boomstub or Bumostubo.... or let's just wait and see.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=detjetsfan;4491221]Coples was the best player on the field during the Senior Bowl and supposedly he has been playing great in the practices. As far as the Abe comparisons go I think Coples has a chance to be a much better player - it's sounding like Coples can actually play against the run very effectively.

    I cannot wait to see these clowns on ESPN and the sports media in general eat a crow buffet next several years regarding Coples.[/QUOTE]
    I too am hopeful about Coples. I was internally channeling some very old debates from these boards about Gholston and other than Coples potential to be an impact player such as Abe was, I see very little similarity between the two of them.

    My point at the time of the "Gholston wars" was that if Gholston was going to be a beast that there should be evidence of that showing up in Practices and preseason games. Especially in the 4th quarter of preseason games against soon-to-be-cut scrubs, yet we saw and heard none of that. My recollection (at that time) was that Abe had caused havoc in the backfield on the practice field from his very first OTA onwards. Just as Coples seems to be doing now. At the time Bitonti (and others) were spouting some nonsense about sometimes it takes years and years for a player to develop.... Blah blah blah and so on an so forth. They were wrong, I was right and some of them still post here. But never mind me I do not feel the need to carry these things around... I know how to let go and move on... :yes:

    Good to see Coples causing mahem.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=EM31;4491255]I too am hopeful about Coples. I was internally channeling some very old debates from these boards about Gholston and other than Coples potential to be an impact player such as Abe was, I see very little similarity between the two of them.

    My point at the time of the "Gholston wars" was that if Gholston was going to be a beast that there should be evidence of that showing up in Practices and preseason games. Especially in the 4th quarter of preseason games against soon-to-be-cut scrubs, yet we saw and heard none of that. My recollection (at that time) was that Abe had caused havoc in the backfield on the practice field from his very first OTA onwards. Just as Coples seems to be doing now. At the time Bitonti (and others) were spouting some nonsense about sometimes it takes years and years for a player to develop.... Blah blah blah and so on an so forth. They were wrong, I was right and some of them still post here. But never mind me I do not feel the need to carry these things around... I know how to let go and move on... :yes:

    Good to see Coples causing mahem.[/QUOTE]

    I remember those debates well. I was one of the "give him time before you throw him to the wolves" camp, but there is no question I was wrong. You nailed it from the get-go. I remember Kerry Rhodes noting Gholston's limitations before he was drafted as well. Now if you guys had only sent me a PM with some powerball numbers, I wouldn't be wasting my time posting while at work. :)

    I do feel very strongly that Coples simply does not merit a "boom or bust" label. If someone said that Coples has a VERY high ceiling but might end up middling through lack of full effort, I would at least understand their point. He has not, even at his worst at NC, been a total slacker or non-performer. If you put his situation in context, he comes out even stronger as a prospect. This had all the markings of putting a tremendously talented prospect who had been through a mess in his college program into the right hands. Nothing in Coples attitude, approach, or performance indicates that he's planning to just collect a paycheck.

    As to the bonehead media, they will never never admit a mistake. All they'll say is that he turned out to be what they predicted: "a boom." You can't go wrong when you cover all possibilities...

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4490418]Boom or bust means all or nothing. Who are these guys that watched Coples every week, and do you think the consensus might come from everyone repeating what the first guy said? His track record would have to say boom, or pretty good from the information I've seen. Why are so many fans so accepting of whatever garbage they get from "analysts", that haven't actually analyzed anything. They believe everything they hear no matter how many times they're wrong then go on sites and whine about those that demand higher standards. I'll never understand it.[/QUOTE]


    Yes, you're right, we should put no stock into any of these analysts who actually saw him play (unless of course they all said he is the next Reggie White, in which case we'd call them all geniuses). Instead we should listen to all of the JI posters who watched every UNC game the past two seasons.

    For the record, I saw 0 games that Coples played in college. I do, however, have a friend who went to UNC and watched all of their games. His opinion? He wouldn't have touched Coples in the first round. Said he has a ton of talent but didn't show up in some games. Sounds to me like the textbook definition of a Boom or... what's that word for a guy who doesn't live up to his draft position?

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=Toooon;4491291]Yes, you're right, we should put no stock into any of these analysts who actually saw him play (unless of course they all said he is the next Reggie White, in which case we'd call them all geniuses). Instead we should listen to all of the JI posters who watched every UNC game the past two seasons.

    For the record, I saw 0 games that Coples played in college. I do, however, have a friend who went to UNC and watched all of their games. His opinion? He wouldn't have touched Coples in the first round. Said he has a ton of talent but didn't show up in some games. Sounds to me like the textbook definition of a Boom or... what's that word for a guy who doesn't live up to his draft position?[/QUOTE]

    So your friend is an expert draft analyst? Yeah, that's persuasive. My 90 year old mother watches all the Minnesota Gopher games. Somehow, I wouldn't consult her for draft analysis... lame post.

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4491285]I remember those debates well. I was one of the "give him time before you throw him to the wolves" camp, but there is no question I was wrong. You nailed it from the get-go. I remember Kerry Rhodes noting Gholston's limitations before he was drafted as well. Now if you guys had only sent me a PM with some powerball numbers, I wouldn't be wasting my time posting while at work. :)

    I do feel very strongly that Coples simply does not merit a "boom or bust" label. If someone said that Coples has a VERY high ceiling but might end up middling through lack of full effort, I would at least understand their point. He has not, even at his worst at NC, been a total slacker or non-performer. If you put his situation in context, he comes out even stronger as a prospect. This had all the markings of putting a tremendously talented prospect who had been through a mess in his college program into the right hands. Nothing in Coples attitude, approach, or performance indicates that he's planning to just collect a paycheck.

    As to the bonehead media, they will never never admit a mistake. All they'll say is that he turned out to be what they predicted: "a boom." You can't go wrong when you cover all possibilities...[/QUOTE]
    LOL... I did not remember until now that your were in the other camp on that one Leprechaun. It was mainly Bitonti in my own mind to tell the truth.

    Boom or bust makes no sense = Agreed.

    The media. Yes it will be hot or cold tomorrow depending on the weather. Weather men/women are never fired for being wrong.

    If I knew the powerball numbers I would also be able to tell when a gutterball straight draw was going to fill in... :D

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