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Thread: When You Can't Pass Something, Just Do it Anyway: The Dream Act

  1. #181
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4495986]Well go ahead so it can be a complete cluster ****. :D

    Warfish already took his ball and went home, you are needed!

    This is what this issue is about:

    [url]http://www.upworthy.com/why-honor-students-across-the-country-are-being-thrown-in-jail?c=bl3[/url][/QUOTE]

    This is usually one of those threads I like to sit back quietly and just read because I see it as a good opportunity to learn opposing viewpoints from intelligent, quality posters like doggin and WF on a topic I haven't myself thought through as thoroughly as many others. But it really went awry with some unnecessary insults followed by a separate tangent that has just about nothing to do with the topic at hand. Maybe we should all grab a drink or light up a joint and start over?

  2. #182
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4496027]This is usually one of those threads I like to sit back quietly and just read because I see it as a good opportunity to learn opposing viewpoints from intelligent, quality posters like doggin and WF on a topic I haven't myself thought through as thoroughly as many others. But it really went awry with some unnecessary insults followed by a separate tangent that has just about nothing to do with the topic at hand. Maybe we should all grab a drink or light up a joint and start over?[/QUOTE]

    Here this should Lightin things up!

    AN ILLEGAL POEM
    by Illegal Immigrants


    I cross river,
    poor and broke,
    Take bus,
    see employment folk.

    Nice man
    treat me good in there,
    Say I need
    go see Welfare.

    Welfare say,
    'You come no more,
    We send cash
    right to your door.'

    Welfare checks,
    they make you wealthy,
    Medicaid
    it keep you healthy!

    By and by,
    Got plenty money,
    Thanks to you, TAXPAYER dummy.

    Write to friends
    in motherland,
    Tell them
    'come, fast as you can'

    They come in buses
    and RAM trucks,
    I buy big house
    with welfare bucks.

    They come here,
    we live together,
    More welfare checks,
    it gets better!

    Fourteen families,
    they moving in,
    But neighbor's patience
    wearing thin.

    Finally, white guy
    moves away, . .
    I buy his house,
    and then I say,

    'Find more aliens
    for house to rent.'
    In my yard
    I put a tent.

    Send for family
    they just trash, ...
    But they, too,
    draw welfare cash!

    Everything is
    very good,
    Soon we own
    whole neighborhood..

    We have hobby
    it called breeding,
    Welfare pay
    for baby feeding..

    Kids need dentist?
    Wife need pills?
    We get free!
    We got no bills!

    TAXPAYER crazy!
    He pay all year,
    To keep welfare
    running here.

    We think America
    darn good place!
    Too darn good
    for white man race.

    If they no like us,
    they can go,
    Got lots of room
    in Mexico.

  3. #183
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    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495795]Yes because we all LEGAL immigrants. Problem is the original people who lived here were completely wiped out. There's no one left to complain and the few that have all get casinos as their reparation payment.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, All it was here was happy hunting ground, right? There were NO inter-tribe genocide going on, Right? If they had the smarts to build boats and guns I can guarantee you, THEY would have been the ones going across big water.
    One other thing, The U.S. government welfare program have destroyed the Indians.

  4. #184
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    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495778]Some of the responses in this threat are deplorable and shows a sad state of affairs and ignorance.

    FACT: Columbus Started 500 years Of genocide in this continent, to the raping of native American women, gutting and feeding native american bowels to his dogs..

    To the 1770's the first use of biological warfare and whipping out 80% of the native americans by distributing smallpox infested blankets...

    To expansion of the western America by using human bombs And sending chineese/German/irish slave labor into mountains with black powder and nitroglycerine to blast through mountains killing many...

    To black slavery...

    I guess it's now there is a sence of "entitlement" from righties that want to deny a path To citizenship to contributors of this country?

    As much as we like to preach from our high horse this nation like every other in this world we share was built on violence, blood and sweat from immigrants.

    Let's not forget that[/QUOTE]


    Nice, my 3rd favorite strawman by libs in the illegal parasite argument. We have to make up for the terrible conduct 150-500 years ago!

    Why do I have to pay for any injustice, real or imagined, perpetrated by people dead for generations, against people dead for generations.

    What does that have to do with current events and the state of the country now? Sure, we needed immigrants years ago, when the population was 30-50 million, not 300 million+ and counting.

    Silly argument to try and make, imo.

  5. #185
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    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495778]Some of the responses in this threat are deplorable and shows a sad state of affairs and ignorance.

    FACT: Columbus Started 500 years Of genocide in this continent, to the raping of native American women, gutting and feeding native american bowels to his dogs..

    [COLOR="Red"]To the 1770's the first use of biological warfare and whipping out 80% of the native americans by distributing smallpox infested blankets...[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="Red"][COLOR="Red"][COLOR="Red"][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    To expansion of the western America by using human bombs And sending [COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]chineese/German/irish [/COLOR]slave labor into mountains with black powder and nitroglycerine to blast through mountains killing many...

    To black slavery...

    I guess it's now there is a[COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"] [COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]sence[/COLOR] [/COLOR]of "entitlement" from righties [B]that want to deny a path To citizenship to contributors of this country?
    [/B]
    As much as we like to preach from our high horse this nation like every other in this world we share was built on violence, blood and sweat from immigrants.

    Let's not forget that[/QUOTE]


    Are you a student in Ward Churchill's class or are you really this dumb on your own? If you despise you skin so much cut if off. 80% of the "native population was wiped out in a bullsht fabrication? How old are you? P.S. I highlighted in green your spelling errors.


    [B]Contributors? they COST US 100 BILLION A YEAR!!![/B]
    Last edited by acepepe; 06-20-2012 at 11:00 AM.

  6. #186
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    [QUOTE=acepepe;4496045]Here this should Lightin things up!

    AN ILLEGAL POEM
    by Illegal Immigrants


    I cross river,
    poor and broke,
    Take bus,
    see employment folk.

    Nice man
    treat me good in there,
    Say I need
    go see Welfare.

    Welfare say,
    'You come no more,
    We send cash
    right to your door.'

    Welfare checks,
    they make you wealthy,
    Medicaid
    it keep you healthy!

    By and by,
    Got plenty money,
    Thanks to you, TAXPAYER dummy.

    Write to friends
    in motherland,
    Tell them
    'come, fast as you can'

    They come in buses
    and RAM trucks,
    I buy big house
    with welfare bucks.

    They come here,
    we live together,
    More welfare checks,
    it gets better!

    Fourteen families,
    they moving in,
    But neighbor's patience
    wearing thin.

    Finally, white guy
    moves away, . .
    I buy his house,
    and then I say,

    'Find more aliens
    for house to rent.'
    In my yard
    I put a tent.

    Send for family
    they just trash, ...
    But they, too,
    draw welfare cash!

    Everything is
    very good,
    Soon we own
    whole neighborhood..

    We have hobby
    it called breeding,
    Welfare pay
    for baby feeding..

    Kids need dentist?
    Wife need pills?
    We get free!
    We got no bills!

    TAXPAYER crazy!
    He pay all year,
    To keep welfare
    running here.

    We think America
    darn good place!
    Too darn good
    for white man race.

    If they no like us,
    they can go,
    Got lots of room
    in Mexico.[/QUOTE]

    Very good except I think you're missing 10 stanzas. Also the translations in Mandarin, Cantonese, Creole, Arabic, Hindi, Pashtun, Gaelic, etc

    You also left out the parts about gangs, crime, drugs, sending $ out of the country, no allegiance to the US etc.

  7. #187
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    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4496078]Nice, my 3rd favorite strawman by libs in the illegal parasite argument. We have to make up for the terrible conduct 150-500 years ago!

    Why do I have to pay for any injustice, real or imagined, perpetrated by people dead for generations, against people dead for generations.

    What does that have to do with current events and the state of the country now? Sure, we needed immigrants years ago, when the population was 30-50 million, not 300 million+ and counting.

    Silly argument to try and make, imo.[/QUOTE]

    My ancestors came here in 1896 from Poland on my dad's side and the early 1900's from Ireland and France by way of Canada on my mom's side. How am I to blame? Or are they just judging me by the color of my skin? Nah they wouldn't do that...

    You can't judge history by today's standards.

  8. #188
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4496027]But it really went awry with some unnecessary insults followed by a separate tangent that has just about nothing to do with the topic at hand.[/QUOTE]

    Isnt that pretty much how every thread works? :confused:

  9. #189
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    [QUOTE=Trades;4496087]My ancestors came here in 1896 from Poland on my dad's side and the early 1900's from Ireland and France by way of Canada on my mom's side. How am I to blame? Or are they just judging me by the color of my skin? Nah they wouldn't do that...

    You can't judge history by today's standards.[/QUOTE]

    You should help chip in financially (even more than you are forced to) to right every moral wrong done since 1900. Only fair, no?

  10. #190
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    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495911]Issue is you are painting everyone with a very large brush when the term "contributing memeber of society" is used. Feel free to instill policy that mandates reading/writting Of english at 6th grade level, grades, criminal record, probation periods, etc. truth is no other parts of the world allows the opportunities given here, including those who came here to escape the British for the freedom of religion.

    By your standards we should tear down lady liberty as the following doesn't apply in your ideology.

    [/IMG][/QUOTE]

    Talk about a broad brush.:D

    When people came into Ellis Island who had disease they were turned back to protect our society.

    Unlike when lady liberty was given to us by the French, we now have a huge social compact. People who came here sank or swim based on opportunity. People who come here now get health care, education and a whole laundry list of benefits that are an opportunity on to themselves.

    I know you believe we are under taxed but most of the services these people get come from property, local and state sales and income taxes along with increased fees that have all gone up almost on a yearly basis everywhere in the country. Many towns, cities and even States are facing bankruptcy. In spite of that we have the most liberal legal immigration policy in the world.

    Fact is we need many immigrants and we will need many more. That doesn't mean we don't have to balance health, national security and even wages with good immigration policy. That isn't cruel at all its humane, practical and necessary to maintain a society that can continue to create opportunity.

    It also doesn't mean we don't have to have immigration reform we do but we should do it the right way, out in the open through the legislative process.

  11. #191
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4496110]Isnt that pretty much how every thread works? :confused:[/QUOTE]

    Sort of, but this one feels different. Different people playing the usual roles, and I guess I thought this was going to be one of those ones where we can laern something constructive, like the ones we sometimes get.

  12. #192
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    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495778]Some of the responses in this threat are deplorable and shows a sad state of affairs and ignorance.

    FACT: Columbus Started 500 years Of genocide in this continent, to the raping of native American women, gutting and feeding native american bowels to his dogs..

    To the 1770's the first use of biological warfare and whipping out 80% of the native americans by distributing smallpox infested blankets...

    To expansion of the western America by using human bombs And sending chineese/German/irish slave labor into mountains with black powder and nitroglycerine to blast through mountains killing many...

    To black[B][I][SIZE="2"] slavery...
    [/SIZE][/I][/B]
    I guess it's now there is a sence of "entitlement" from righties that want to deny a path To citizenship to contributors of this country?

    As much as we like to preach from our high horse this nation like every other in this world we share was built on violence, blood and sweat from immigrants.


    [B] I'll bet you REALLY must hate the Muslims and Asians.[/B]


    According to a report by the US State Department unveiled Tuesday. Up to 27 million people are living in slavery around the world, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton estimated as the US unveiled its annual report into human trafficking


    But the report showed that as governments become more aware of the issue, instigating tough new laws and programs to help victims, progress is being made in wiping out what it called the "scourge of trafficking."

    "The end of legal slavery in the United States and in other countries around the world has not, unfortunately, meant the end of slavery," said Clinton.

    "Today it is estimated as many as 27 million people around the world are victims of modern slavery, what we sometimes call trafficking in persons," she said at the unveiling of the report at the State Department.

    "Those victims of modern slavery are women and men, girls and boys, and their stories remind us of the kind of inhumane treatment we are capable of as human beings," said Clinton.

    "Whatever their background, they are the living, breathing reminders that the work to eradicate slavery remains unfinished."

    As America prepares to mark the 150th anniversary of the proclamation of the emancipation of US slaves, people must reflect on "how much further we have to go to free all these 27 million victims," Clinton added.

    Out of the 185 countries included in the 2012 report, only 33 complied fully with laws in place to end human trafficking, putting them at the top of a four-tier ranking system.

    But five countries had moved up from the bottom blacklist known as tier 3, including Myanmar and Venezuela, to be included among the 42 countries now on what is known as a tier 2 watchlist.

    Myanmar was removed from the blacklist because the government "took a number of unprecedented steps to address forced labor and the conscription of child soldiers; these steps amount to a credible commitment to undertake anti-trafficking reforms over the coming year," the report said.

    Syria however fell onto the blacklist for the first time, in a move which could cut off any US aid and make it harder to get US backing for funds from organizations like the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.

    "The government of Syria does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so," the 2012 Trafficking in Persons report said.

    Among the 16 other countries on the blacklist were Algeria, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Libya, North Korea and Saudi Arabia.

    Kenya slipped down onto the watchlist for the first time in five years, while Nigeria lost its place on tier 1, moving down a notch as the report highlighted that women and children were forced into labor and sex trafficking.

    But Clinton hailed the fact that a total of 29 countries had been upgraded to a higher ranking, "which means that their governments are taking the right steps."

    They included Bangladesh, which was bumped up to tier two for making significant efforts to comply with minimum standards, including passing "a comprehensive anti-trafficking law" in December.

    Ambassador Luis CdeBaca, director of the office to combat trafficking in persons, said while the number of people officially identified as victims of trafficking and slavery had gone up by 28 percent since last year to 42,291, the numbers of prosecutions in 2012 had also increased by 10 percent to 3,969.

    So while countries "still have a little ways to go" there was "the beginnings, I think, of a real trend," he said.

    This year's report focuses on how to better protect the victims, and urges governments to meet the challenge head-on.

    "Traffickers are criminals. Governments -- which alone have the power to punish criminals and provide legal recourse to survivors -- cannot waver in their efforts to confront modern slavery," the report says.

    But it also argues that human trafficking takes many guises and it is not just about moving people across borders to trap them in prostitution.

    "The United States government, and increasingly, the international community, view 'trafficking in persons' as the term through which all forms of modern slavery are criminalized," it says.

    "The essence of the trafficking experience is the denial of freedom, including the freedom to choose where and how you live, the freedom to work or choose not to work, the freedom from threats, and the freedom of bodily integrity," the report says.

  13. #193
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4496134]Talk about a broad brush.:D

    When people came into Ellis Island who had disease they were turned back to protect our society.

    Unlike when lady liberty was given to us by the French, we now have a huge social compact. People who came here sank or swim based on opportunity. People who come here now get health care, education and a whole laundry list of benefits that are an opportunity on to themselves.

    I know you believe we are under taxed but most of the services these people get come from property, local and state sales and income taxes along with increased fees that have all gone up almost on a yearly basis everywhere in the country. Many towns, cities and even States are facing bankruptcy. In spite of that we have the most liberal legal immigration policy in the world.

    Fact is we need many immigrants and we will need many more. That doesn't mean we don't have to balance health, national security and even wages with good immigration policy. That isn't cruel at all its humane, practical and necessary to maintain a society that can continue to create opportunity.

    It also doesn't mean we don't have to have immigration reform we do but we should do it the right way, out in the open through the legislative process.[/QUOTE]

    Thread saved.

  14. #194
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    [QUOTE=FF2®;4495986]Warfish already took his ball and went home[/QUOTE]

    Not quite. I simply have nothing further or constructive to add to the discussion. No one wants to be angry, and this topic made me more angry than I like. I don't see much point in my continuing at this time.

  15. #195
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4496276]Not quite. I simply have nothing further or constructive to add to the discussion. No one wants to be angry, and this topic made me more angry than I like. I don't see much point in my continuing at this time.[/QUOTE]

    Don't let the obnoxious misguided moronic lib tools who'll bankrupt you to feed and shelter a villa full of thieving strangers and libel you if you don't wanna have your pocket picked discourage you. I don't.

  16. #196
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4496027]This is usually one of those threads I like to sit back quietly and just read because I see it as a good opportunity to learn opposing viewpoints from intelligent, quality posters like doggin and WF on a topic I haven't myself thought through as thoroughly as many others. But it really went awry with some unnecessary insults followed by a separate tangent that has just about nothing to do with the topic at hand. Maybe we should all grab a drink or light up a joint and start over?[/QUOTE]

    Pass on the joint, but I'll drink to that.

  17. #197
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    Lets see if we can't agree on first principles. Anyone disagree with the following? If so, why?

    1) We don't want immigrants who will not contribute to American society.

    2) We do want immigrants who will contribute to American society.

    3) We should not reward crime, including violations of our immigration law.

    4) We should not punish people for crimes they did not choose to commit.

  18. #198
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4496134]Talk about a broad brush.:D

    When people came into Ellis Island who had disease they were turned back to protect our society.

    Unlike when lady liberty was given to us by the French, we now have a huge social compact. People who came here sank or swim based on opportunity. People who come here now get health care, education and a whole laundry list of benefits that are an opportunity on to themselves.

    I know you believe we are under taxed but most of the services these people get come from property, local and state sales and income taxes along with increased fees that have all gone up almost on a yearly basis everywhere in the country. Many towns, cities and even States are facing bankruptcy. In spite of that we have the most liberal legal immigration policy in the world.

    Fact is we need many immigrants and we will need many more. That doesn't mean we don't have to balance health, national security and even wages with good immigration policy. That isn't cruel at all its humane, practical and necessary to maintain a society that can continue to create opportunity.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with this. But I'm skeptical of:

    [QUOTE]
    "It also doesn't mean we don't have to have immigration reform we do but [B]we should do it the right way, out in the open through the legislative process.[/B]"[/QUOTE]

    I agree with many conservatives that the way massive amounts of illegals that collect benefits and services from our system, is only going to weaken our system.

    But I don't think, realistically, anything was going to get done before this election, so I don't mind the executive order halting deportations for contributing members of society.

  19. #199
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    [QUOTE=SafetyBlitz;4496612]

    I agree with many conservatives that the way massive amounts of illegals that collect benefits and services from our system, is only going to weaken our system.

    But I don't think, realistically, anything was going to get done before this election, so I don't mind the executive order halting deportations for contributing members of society.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed the President didn't try and do anything when he was first elected and had a Democratic Senate and House, he certainly wasn't going to get reform now through the Congress and 3.5 years in it's clear he's going to need a large turnout in the hispanic community to carry this election.

    I don't mind it either practically it's needed but it still a reflection on the Presidents lack of leadership that he was tormented by this and didn't act until now.

  20. #200
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4496632]Agreed the President didn't try and do anything when he was first elected and had a Democratic Senate and House, he certainly wasn't going to get reform now through the Congress and 3.5 years in it's clear he's going to need a large turnout in the hispanic community to carry this election.

    I don't mind it either practically it's needed but it still a reflection on the Presidents lack of leadership that he was tormented by this and didn't act until now.[/QUOTE]

    Apparently we agree for different reasons

    The DREAM Act vote in Dec 2010...

    [QUOTE]The DREAM Act, along with a repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", was incorporated into the National Defense Authorization Act for the Fiscal Year 2011. On September 21, 2010, the Senate filibuster of the bill was maintained in a 56–43 vote; it would have taken 60 votes to stop the filibuster and continue the progress of the bill.[30] Less than a month later, on November 16, President Barack Obama and top Democrats pledged to introduce the Dream Act into the House by November 29.[32] The House of Representatives passed the DREAM Act on December 8, 2010,[33][34] but the bill failed to reach the 60-vote threshold necessary to end debate on the Senate floor (55-41 -- Motion to invoke cloture on the motion to concur in the House amendment to the Senate amendment No. 3 to H.R. 5281).[35][/QUOTE]

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act[/url]

    If not for cloture and filibuster by the GOP, the Senate would have passed the bill in 2010 by a 55-41 margin...

    Perception is a big problem with this administration - as in, intelligent people like yourself, think he didn't try on immigration.
    Last edited by SafetyBlitz; 06-20-2012 at 08:41 PM.

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