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Thread: Poll: Independents like immigration move

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    Poll: Independents like immigration move

    Bloomberg News is out this morning with a poll confirming that the Obama administration's new policy on deportation isn't just a winner with Latinos; voters in general approve, including a big majority of independents. Lisa Lerer:

    President Barack Obama is winning the opening round in the battle over immigration, according to a Bloomberg poll released today, putting Republicans on the defensive with his decision to end the deportations of some illegal immigrants brought to the U.S. as children,

    Sixty-four percent of likely voters surveyed after Obama’s June 15 announcement said they agreed with the policy, while 30 percent said they disagreed. Independents backed the decision by better than a two-to-one margin. ...

    A majority -- 56 percent -- of likely Republican voters opposed the decision, while almost nine in 10, or 86 percent, of Democrats supported it. Sixty-six percent of independents backed the policy change, while 26 percent disagreed.

    Romney, the presumed Republican presidential nominee, has refused to say whether he would reverse the decision if he’s elected.

    The poll goes a long way toward explaining why the Obama team seems to be on offense this week for the first time in a couple weeks. It's hard to imagine that Romney's current posture on the issue could last all the way to November, or even past this week, given that he's slated to address the National Association of Latino Elected Officials on Thursday.

    [url]http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/06/poll-independents-like-immigration-move-126556.html[/url]

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    We all understand that this move by Obama was made for political reasons. But how about the gutless move by Romney who is being told to not give a straight answer about his stance. These are the two best candidates to run the country?

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4494954]Bloomberg News is out this morning with a poll confirming that the Obama administration's new policy on deportation isn't just a winner with Latinos; voters in general approve, including a big majority of independents. Lisa Lerer:

    President Barack Obama is winning the opening round in the battle over immigration, according to a Bloomberg poll released today, putting Republicans on the defensive with his decision to end the deportations of some illegal immigrants brought to the U.S. as children,

    Sixty-four percent of likely voters surveyed after Obama’s June 15 announcement said they agreed with the policy, while 30 percent said they disagreed. Independents backed the decision by better than a two-to-one margin. ...

    A majority -- 56 percent -- of likely Republican voters opposed the decision, while almost nine in 10, or 86 percent, of Democrats supported it. Sixty-six percent of independents backed the policy change, while 26 percent disagreed.

    Romney, the presumed Republican presidential nominee, has refused to say whether he would reverse the decision if he’s elected.

    The poll goes a long way toward explaining why the Obama team seems to be on offense this week for the first time in a couple weeks. It's hard to imagine that Romney's current posture on the issue could last all the way to November, or even past this week, given that he's slated to address the National Association of Latino Elected Officials on Thursday.

    [url]http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/06/poll-independents-like-immigration-move-126556.html[/url][/QUOTE]

    And in the latest poll, prisoners favor being set free!!!

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4494961]We all understand that this move by Obama was made for political reasons. But how about the gutless move by Romney who is being told to not give a straight answer about his stance. These are the two best candidates to run the country?[/QUOTE]

    He's a nutless ballsack for not taking a position, now do you see the danger the Dems have created pandering to specific ethnicity's. Now the commerce Dept. wants to give"Arab-Americans" preferential treatment.

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    The concept of a path for that particular subset of illegal aliens is a good one IMO. The problem is not with the concept but rather the way it was done. Why not bring the proposal to congress? Rubio has recently been touting a similar plan. Clearly there are Republicans that would go along with this type of highly targeted plan. It would be nice to see a bill like that paired with beefed up border security measures.

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    Another issue where Romney is weak.

    Seems more and more I'll simply opt out (or, as Flushing likes to say, "Personally Enable B.H. Obama!") and not vote for anyone.

    Frankly, I am not unconvinced that the whole shebang is past any abillity of anyone to fix, assumign either side ever wanted to fix it (and I don't think they do, IMO they both want to make it worse for their own gain).

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495122]Another issue where Romney is weak.

    Seems more and more I'll simply opt out (or, as Flushing likes to say, "Personally Enable B.H. Obama!") and not vote for anyone.

    Frankly, I am not unconvinced that the whole shebang is past any abillity of anyone to fix, assumign either side ever wanted to fix it (and I don't think they do, IMO they both want to make it worse for their own gain).[/QUOTE]

    This election is shaping as Bush/Kerry Part II. The party in power is not happy with their candidate. The party looking to gain power is uninspired by their choice.

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4495137]This election is shaping as Bush/Kerry Part II. The party in power is not happy with their candidate. The party looking to gain power is uninspired by their choice.[/QUOTE]

    Oh GFY with that bull****. The party in power is just fine with their choice.

    And it'll be a great day for you to see what he does once he wins. And has no more elections to worry about.

    That fundamental transformation you want, I mean beyond Universal Healthcare, Mandates and Immigration Amnesty....it's coming.

    So save your crocodile tears for the other idiots here.

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    So independent voters are just as stupid as partisan voters. Got it.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495148]Oh GFY with that bull****. The party in power is just fine with their choice.

    And it'll be a great day for you to see what he does once he wins. And has no more elections to worry about.

    That fundamental transformation you want, I mean beyond Universal Healthcare, Mandates and Immigration Amnesty....it's coming.

    So save your crocodile tears for the other idiots here.[/QUOTE]

    :rolleyes:

    Then lets allow voter turnout to prove your theory. We can compare the voter turnout for registered democrats in 2012 verses 2008. Care to place a wager :zzz:

    As for the rest of your post, I did not read the latest underground warfish conspiracy paper so I don't know what you think is......coming :eek:

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    The Democrats set a political trap with this move. It is an obvious maneuver. They take the most sympathetic group of illegals, ones that came here as children and either served in the military or went to College, and single them out for special treatment. It is a trap because when the GOP morons crow about this they can then paint the GOP as heartless and cruel. They will trot out productive military and college grads that have jobs and are useful citizens and say the GOP wants to throw them out of America. They grab a Marine Staff Sargent and speak of his stellar military record and then they say the GOP wants to send him back where he came from.

    I don't think anyone here, even the most anti immigrant would have a problem with providing a path for ex-military illegals to stay in America. I personally would be fine with it. Rubio essentially authored this concept a month ago with his alternative to the DREAM act. This was a GOP idea. Obama should have reached out to Rubio to push the legislation that would have made it official. Instead he does this symbolic move in an attempt to score political points. The GOP should play up that angle rather then taking the hard line stance on this.

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4495164]:rolleyes:

    Then lets allow voter turnout to prove your theory. We can compare the voter turnout for registered democrats in 2012 verses 2008. Care to place a wager :zzz:[/quote]

    Of course it's not going to match 2008. And no, it's not because "the left is unhappy with Obama". Every single "left" voter will vote again for Obama. It's the middle and the youth and other fickle voters that will come or go in 2012, not Democrats or the dedicated Left, the people you are trying to claim are "unhappy".

    And no, "Registered Democrat" voting in toto will not be proof of your claim one way or the other.

    [quote]As for the rest of your post, I did not read the latest underground warfish conspiracy paper so I don't know what you think is......coming :eek:[/QUOTE]

    Shouldn;t YOU be able to tell ME whats coming?

    After all, you're going to vote for him, right?

    Are you saying you have no idea what a Obama 2nd Term will bring Policy wise? What he stands for? What legislative agenda he proposes?

    Hmm, ok. :dunno:

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495177]Of course it's not going to match 2008. And no, it's not because "the left is unhappy with Obama". Every single "left" voter will vote again for Obama. It's the middle and the youth and other fickle voters that will come or go in 2012, not Democrats or the dedicated Left, the people you are trying to claim are "unhappy".

    And no, "Registered Democrat" voting in toto will not be proof of your claim one way or the other.



    Shouldn;t YOU be able to tell ME whats coming?

    After all, you're going to vote for him, right?

    Are you saying you have no idea what a Obama 2nd Term will bring Policy wise? What he stands for? What legislative agenda he proposes?

    Hmm, ok. :dunno:[/QUOTE]

    1. How does voter turnout for registered democrats not show, to some degree, how they feel about their candidate? To be fair there is an expected decline in turnout from the historic nature of 2008. But I believe there is a portion of the democratic party who is apathetic to another term and don't see a large difference between Obama and Romney. I include myself in that category.

    2. Here is what will come with a second term; [B]mostly nothing[/B]. If history is to be our guide most presidential accomplishments are passed in the first term for political reasons.

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4495194]1. How does voter turnout for registered democrats not show, to some degree, how they feel about their candidate? To be fair there is an expected decline in turnout from the historic nature of 2008. But I believe there is a portion of the democratic party who is apathetic to another term and don't see a large difference between Obama and Romney. I include myself in that category.

    2. Here is what will come with a second term; [B]mostly nothing[/B]. If history is to be our guide most presidential accomplishments are passed in the first term for political reasons.[/QUOTE]

    I believe he was referring to the Political Left. Democrats as a whole include the group of "Reagan Democrats". White blue collar types that have been crushed in the Obama economy. They should be working in oil fields and factories and construction sites. That group is flipping big time. They loved Hillary in 2008 but were cool on Obama to begin with. Large portions of that group will go for Romney this time around. That's whats keeping things tight in the Rust Belt States.

    The Left on the other hand comprised of Environmentalists, Progressives, Socialists, Feminists and LGBT advocacy types will go for Obama in droves because he is implementing the agenda that they value.

    The question for this Race is will enough blue collar whites and wealthy suburbanites flip over to Romney to sway things? Right now things look better for Romney with leads in Ohio, Florida and Wisconsin but over these next few months a lot can happen. In the end the economy will determine the outcome. Without a bounce in jobs creation in the next month or two Obama will be finished.

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4495194]1. How does voter turnout for registered democrats not show, to some degree, how they feel about their candidate? To be fair there is an expected decline in turnout from the historic nature of 2008. But I believe there is a portion of the democratic party who is apathetic to another term and don't see a large difference between Obama and Romney. I include myself in that category.

    2. Here is what will come with a second term; [B]mostly nothing[/B]. If history is to be our guide most presidential accomplishments are passed in the first term for political reasons.[/QUOTE]

    So he'll get only 98.7% of Black Voters instead of 99.2% this time, eh?

    OK.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495148]

    That fundamental transformation you want, I mean beyond Universal Healthcare, Mandates and Immigration Amnesty....it's coming.

    So save your crocodile tears for the other idiots here.[/QUOTE]

    Ughhh.... what?

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495177]it's not because "the left is unhappy with Obama". Every single "left" voter will vote again for Obama. It's the middle and the youth and other fickle voters that will come or go in 2012, not Democrats or the dedicated Left, the people you are trying to claim are "unhappy".[/QUOTE]

    Were the Republicans or the dedicated Right "unhappy" with Bush in 2004? The small government GOP seemed perfectly fine pulling the lever for him.

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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4495175]I don't think anyone here, even the most anti immigrant would have a problem with providing a path for ex-military illegals to stay in America. I personally would be fine with it. Rubio essentially authored this concept a month ago with his alternative to the DREAM act. This was a GOP idea. Obama should have reached out to Rubio to push the legislation that would have made it official. Instead he does this symbolic move in an attempt to score political points. The GOP should play up that angle rather then taking the hard line stance on this.[/QUOTE]

    What legislation could be passed to surpass the strategy and effectiveness of prosecutorial discretion? Legalizing the objectives of this policy is not the correct move, non-enforcement is a much better solution.

    There are over 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, and the reality is there are only a finite amount of enforcement resources available. It is a common sense policy to focus on the unproductive and criminal elements of this portion of our society.

    In any case, this move has completely political motivations.

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    [QUOTE=parafly;4495811]What legislation could be passed to surpass the strategy and effectiveness of prosecutorial discretion? Legalizing the objectives of this policy is not the correct move, non-enforcement is a much better solution.

    There are over 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, and the reality is there are only a finite amount of enforcement resources available. It is a common sense policy to focus on the unproductive and criminal elements of this portion of our society.

    In any case, this move has completely political motivations.[/QUOTE]

    Obama giving them a 2 year reprieve solves nothing. Kids that serve in the Army and/or graduate from College are the types of immigrants we want in America. I am fine with a path for citizenship for that subgroup. Rubio proposed something like that last month. Kids that were brought to America under the age of 16 that have no criminal record and have been here 5+ years, and have served in the military or completed college would be given a work visa and the ability to apply for a green card.

    Legal immigration in America is a good thing as long as those coming here are productive. Someone needs to pay in to Social Security to pay for all these retirees.

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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4495881]Obama giving them a 2 year reprieve solves nothing. Kids that serve in the Army and/or graduate from College are the types of immigrants we want in America. I am fine with a path for citizenship for that subgroup. Rubio proposed something like that last month. Kids that were brought to America under the age of 16 that have no criminal record and have been here 5+ years, and have served in the military or completed college would be given a work visa and the ability to apply for a green card.

    Legal immigration in America is a good thing as long as those coming here are productive. Someone needs to pay in to Social Security to pay for all these retirees.[/QUOTE]

    Conservatives aren't anti-imigration they are anti-ILLEGAL-imigration. Big difference. How many illegals have served in the military? I have to guess the number is VERY low.

    I can see both sides. There is a point of principal that says they should all go back. They are here illegally and cut in line ahead of those willing to do things the right way. I would like to watch many of the amnesty crowd in line at the grocery store as people cut in front of them with loaded carts, lets have need 2 price checks, forget something and run and get it and then write checks for their order too. Oh and only 1 register is open too. I am sure you will be ok with it.

    I also think that this is just another shoe horn to opening the door for everyone. Today, how about the nice kids. Tomorrow, well Carlos was only convicted of 1 violent felony but he wrote a nice kids book while he was in there so he deserves to stay.

    On the other side I can see the reality of trying to get rid of these people. In a perfect world we could keep just the good ones. We all know that is impossible. If I KNEW it wouldn't grow larger I could live with this decision.

    The right answer for me is to send people home with a form to fill out for re-admittance. Then open up legal immigration to more people. No criminals, no disease. OF course we still have a jobs issue and then we also have minimum wage keeping them from working for the pennies on the dollar that make them valuable in the first place. We are getting tons of H1(whatever) visa technical types coming here legally already. Those are the type of immigrants that we need. People that add to the pot rather than take.

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