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Thread: NYC Standardized Spanish Exam

  1. #41
    [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4495681]Why did your teacher friend not hand the bag to one of her superiors...

    Common sense not to throw away evidence... Seems to be lacking in a lot of educators these days...[/QUOTE]

    Yes, then it would become a invest object and call it a day.

  2. #42
    [QUOTE=Trades;4495702][IMG]http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/teachers-now-and-then.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

    It's all the union's fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495708]She did, the school principal made the decision to throw it away[/QUOTE]

    That is not how it sounds based on how I interpreted your post...

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4495716]It's all the union's fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

    I have never said that.

    Its funny you see it as we are union bashing. Coper sees it as teacher bashing. As a parent and a libertarian I think the whole system is messed up from the politicians, administrators, teachers, kids, parents, curriculum, agenda, etc. Hell I am sure if we looked closely enough even the custodians and bus drivers are messed up. The biggest issue though is the Unions not allowing change and the administration making the wrong changes. Nothing gets solved, it usually gets more screwed up and more expensive.

    <edit>I am not saying private businesses are perfect either. My company has some disfunctionality but the difference is that you aren't forced to buy our product at gun point and if we are so inefficient that our prices are too high we go out of business.
    Last edited by Trades; 06-20-2012 at 08:07 AM.

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4495441]'ll use your own words. "If he's a great salesman he can sell his product".

    That's YOUR job. Selling the student. If you can't YOU ARE A DISMAL FAILURE.

    I base my concept on value in our society. You deliver or you you do not. Fail to perform? See ya.

    Teachers demand salary. High reward should be based on high risk. In anything.
    Investing.
    Buy Treasuries. No risk. Minor reward.
    Buy facebook - we'll see. High risk - yes. Maybe high reward. Maybe a bloodbath.
    Buy Conoco Phillips - Some risk. decent reward.

    In a job. Teachers have a good reward with LOW risk. You want money? (Teachers are VERY well compensated). WORK for it. Failure in production should equate to termination.
    I had the sword over my head my entire life starting with college. I had to produce or else. From football to the Army to every business assignment.
    Pressure makes people good. Terrifying pressure. My children were all brought up the same way. Successful and very well to do. On their own.

    It's easy for a teacher to lay blame elsewhere. The liberal way out. Like Obama. He ever accept blame? No. People should just do the job or get fired.

    Jack Welsh, when he was CEO at General Electric has a policy he utilized for 20 years. At evaluation time each year, every manager in every division was required to list his lowest 10% of employees in performance. These were promptly TERMINATED. Brutal? Maybe. But it insured people would work hard and it insured poor performers were rooted out, kicked to the curb and good talent brought in.

    It's time all government workers got off their gravy train and worked.[/QUOTE]

    Your post echos most "experts" who love to speak about what should be going on in every classroom and then what really exists in our nations public schools. Its the disconnect. You are comparing salesman who communicate adult to adult with teachers who communicate adult to child. Last time I looked, children often act irrational, uninterested, disrespectful, and often will not connect with any adult during their growing years.

    I presently teach 6 different classes of social studies, all over crowded (30-35 students) one of those classes is an ESL class made up of 30 Chinese, 2 Spanish, and 3 Indian. About 80% of the students in the class cant speak a word of English. They go home and only speak their native language with family members who dont speak English. Its now June and I've seen some improvement over the 10 months where students can say simple sentences. The government, in their quest to rally society against all government workers, gives these students the SAME standardized test as a student who has lived in America their whole lives and go home to parents who were born here. Its the governments disconnect as to what makes a good teacher.

    Go visit a public school in an average income area in NYC. See the insane issues that teachers deal with everyday. Just yesterday I witnessed a student with a pen right up against a teachers face screaming "GET THE F OUT OF MY FACE, YOU AINT MY MOTHER." What did the teacher do that was so awful? She was defending a boy in a WHEELCHAIR who was being PUNCHED for FUN(?) by the student with the pen. This happened yesterday, the same student just looked at me this morning with an arrogant look and said "Yeah, wuzzz up." Nothing, not a thing done, no consequence. A phone call was placed to the parent with no response. Why cant the school do anything you ask? Because under NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND the government doesnt want to admit that there are any behavioral issues or they would have to address it. Its much easier to claim that teachers have poor classroom management skills. Oh, the student with the pen, he takes the same STANDARIZED test as everyone else.

    Yeah, but I get it, when he fails the test its the teacher who is the DISMAL FAILURE according to the government and eveyone else who believes their mission to attack teachers and other government workers.......:rolleyes:
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-20-2012 at 08:51 AM.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495942]Your post echos most "experts" who love to speak about what should be going on in every classroom and then what really exists in our nations public schools. Its the disconnect. You are comparing salesman who communicate adult to adult with teachers who communicate adult to child. Last time I looked, children often act irrational, uninterested, disrespectful, and often will not connect with any adult during their growing years.

    I presently teach 6 different classes of social studies, all over crowded (30-35 students) one of those classes is an ESL class made up of 30 Chinese, 2 Spanish, and 3 Indian. About 80% of the students in the class cant speak a word of English. They go home and only speak their native language with family members who dont speak English. Its now June and I've seen some improvement over the 10 months where students can say simple sentences. The government, in their quest to rally society against all government workers, gives these students the SAME standardized test as a student who has lived in America their whole lives and go home to parents who were born here. Its the governments disconnect as to what makes a good teacher.

    Go visit a public school in an average income area in NYC. See the insane issues that teachers deal with everyday. Just yesterday I witnessed a student with a pen right up against a teachers face screaming "GET THE F OUT OF MY FACE, YOU AINT MY MOTHER." What did the teacher do that was so awful? She was defending a boy in a WHEELCHAIR who was being PUNCHED for FUN(?) by the student with the pen. This happened yesterday, the same student just looked at me this morning with an arrogant look and said "Yeah, wuzzz up." Nothing, not a thing done, no consequence. A phone call was placed to the parent with no response. Why cant the school do anything you ask? Because under NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND the government doesnt want to admit that there are any behavioral issues or they would have to address it. Its much easier to claim that teachers have poor classroom management skills. Oh, the student with the pen, he takes the same STANDARIZED test as everyone else.

    Yeah, but I get it, when he fails the test its the teacher who is the DISMAL FAILURE according to the government and eveyone else who believes their mission to attack teachers and other government workers.......:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    And for the 50th time. What is your solution? We get what you think the problem is, honestly we do, but what is the solution?!?

  7. #47
    Honestly it's more of a parent problem. Parents want "their" changes and are usually not informed and angry.


    [QUOTE=Trades;4495902]I have never said that.

    Its funny you see it as we are union bashing. Coper sees it as teacher bashing. As a parent and a libertarian I think the whole system is messed up from the politicians, administrators, teachers, kids, parents, curriculum, agenda, etc. Hell I am sure if we looked closely enough even the custodians and bus drivers are messed up. The biggest issue though is the Unions not allowing change and the administration making the wrong changes. Nothing gets solved, it usually gets more screwed up and more expensive.

    <edit>I am not saying private businesses are perfect either. My company has some disfunctionality but the difference is that you aren't forced to buy our product at gun point and if we are so inefficient that our prices are too high we go out of business.[/QUOTE]

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=Trades;4495952]And for the 50th time. What is your solution? We get what you think the problem is, honestly we do, but what is the solution?!?[/QUOTE]


    For starters:

    1) Federal Mandates: NCLB, Common Core, Race To The Top, all have corporate greed agendas that do not bode well for children.

    2) Mayoral Control: Mayor Bloomberg fought so hard to get it and now has the power to do really whatever he wants. No one looking over him. The DOE in NYC has the highest salaries of over $100,000 of all city workers. Most of these salaries come from political promise type jobs outside the classroom and small schools withing already existing school buildings that now have to account for twice, sometimes three times the amount of administrators. No one looking over the billionaire businessman who poses as a mayor for now. Not a good mix.

    3) Standardized Tests: The result of NCLB was to test, test and test the kids more. Its so unbelievably over the top that anyone who witnesses this could never believe that it makes sense without some hidden agenda. The amount of standardized tests reached 20 this school year. That's almost 1 every 2 weeks (includes practice and post exams). A standardized test day is awful for every kid and teacher and in the end has proved nothing except that it costs so much more money that could be spent on useful things for schools. Somehow we have forgotten that they are children and should be inspired by their experiences to learn. One standardized test at the the end of the year seems reasonable. Finland, who the rest of the world deems as the greatest country for education, DOES NOT give any standardize tests until the student is 16 years old and not every student takes one. Funny how Americans wants to be the best at everything yet wont follow the model of the best country.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4495982]Honestly it's more of a parent problem. Parents want "their" changes and are usually not informed and angry.[/QUOTE]

    I agree parents are to blame as well hence the picture I posted but then that also says that we can throw all the money in the world at the problem and nothing will change. The solution in my opinion is school choice/vouchers which will give parents that care a vote in school politics by opening up the market. It also allows them to move their kids out of bad districts when they can't afford to move. The other thing that is needed is to empower the teachers to disipline kids and get away from this rediculous "no one can fail/everyone is a winner" mentality that has pervaded this country.

    That is what is needed to improve education. Now on the other side, administrations need to be reduced, the federal government is too big to make decisions that are local by nature so they need to butt out and leave it to the states, budgets and curriculums need to be reevaluated to get money as close to the student as possible and to teach them actual skills like reading, writing, math, computers, science, HISTORY, and leave the liberal indoctrination at the door.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496031]For starters:

    1) Federal Mandates: NCLB, Common Core, Race To The Top, all have corporate greed agendas that do not bode well for children.

    2) Mayoral Control: Mayor Bloomberg fought so hard to get it and now has the power to do really whatever he wants. No one looking over him. The DOE in NYC has the highest salaries of over $100,000 of all city workers. Most of these salaries come from political promise type jobs outside the classroom and small schools withing already existing school buildings that now have to account for twice, sometimes three times the amount of administrators. No one looking over the billionaire businessman who poses as a mayor for now. Not a good mix.

    3) Standardized Tests: The result of NCLB was to test, test and test the kids more. Its so unbelievably over the top that anyone who witnesses this could never believe that it makes sense without some hidden agenda. The amount of standardized tests reached 20 this school year. That's almost 1 every 2 weeks (includes practice and post exams). A standardized test day is awful for every kid and teacher and in the end has proved nothing except that it costs so much more money that could be spent on useful things for schools. Somehow we have forgotten that they are children and should be inspired by their experiences to learn. One standardized test at the the end of the year seems reasonable. Finland, who the rest of the world deems as the greatest country for education, DOES NOT give any standardize tests until the student is 16 years old and not every student takes one. Funny how Americans wants to be the best at everything yet wont follow the model of the best country.[/QUOTE]

    You are focused on NYC but Bloomberg doesn't make these decisions for the rest of the country. I agree with getting NCLB and the Fed out of Education.

    I admit I know nothing about Finland's educational system, I guess they had to be good at something. Do their students rank #1 in the international Math or Science competitions? Are their colleges drawing students from around the world? What criteria gives them this #1 ranking?

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=Trades;4496048]You are focused on NYC but Bloomberg doesn't make these decisions for the rest of the country. I agree with getting NCLB and the Fed out of Education.

    I admit I know nothing about Finland's educational system, I guess they had to be good at something. Do their students rank #1 in the international Math or Science competitions? Are their colleges drawing students from around the world? What criteria gives them this #1 ranking?[/QUOTE]

    We test everyone in the US. Special Ed, ESL, students who are in the US under one year. Finland doesnt have the immigrant population with language barriers like the US. It also appears that there are no hidden agendas like here in the US. Most educators believe that the tests are only given for political reasons. To make a case why ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS should be shut down and privatized. This way corporate America can get its greedy hands on an untapped resource. Its already happening. Look into who is funding Common Core Curriculum (the next NCLB). Its corporations like Walmart, State Farm Insurance, and the Bill Gates Foundation. All sell products, all would love to "brand" the kids for life.

    I started my career teaching in a private Catholic school. I quickly realized that when I taught students about the slave trade how the school did not want the students to learn anything about the involvement of the catholic church. It was the Catholic Church's agenda to not criticize anything about it.

    If the government has its way and privatizes all schools, do you think the schools funded by oil companies will learn about an alternative energy source? Do you think the schools funded by Walmart will learn about health benefits for employees? Will the Verizon schools get any information about the link of cell phone use to brain cancer?...........Scary

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495114]Surprise, surprise, turns out that there was a problem with the NYC Standardized Spanish test in my school (not sure if it was city wide). The students were asked to choose two questions from 31, 32, and 33, but question 33 turned out not to exist. This posed a HUGE problem for our students and teachers. Students asked if they failed the exam because of the one question would they have a chance to take it over? Fail for the year? Have to go to summer school? No one had the answer. You see this is what happens when standardized tests are more important to politicians than teachers, it stresses out the whole system and does more harm than good.

    I spoke to some Spanish teachers today who told me that the test had major mistakes. Just like the other city and state exams that Mayor Bloomberg wants to fire teachers over. Question 33 would have been a picture that the students needed to write about, but there was just no picture to be found.

    This is one of many things that are wrong about the amount of standardized testing politicians force on students. On top of all the standardized testing, teachers are forced to give their own final in the classroom. More and more testing for students. On my personal exam there happened to be a typo. I was able to write the correction on the board when a student pointed it out to me. However, no one can correct the city, since Mayor Bloomberg already knows everything, including teachers who should be fired and schools that should be shut down. Since Bloomberg has mayoral control of the NYC school system, and there continue to be mistake after mistake on these standardized tests that he ultimately has control over, shouldn't he be fired?[/QUOTE]

    Criticizing standardized tests for typos is lame. Typos are a common with all proctored tests, but the benefit with standardized tests is that the mistake is identical on all tests and resolving the issue (e.g., throwing out the question out or giving everyone credit) has the same effect on all test takers. So, I donít think itís much of an issue.

    Anyway, Iím in the camp that advocates a reduction in standardized testing. Standardized tests cannot measure or evaluate creativity, critical thinking, resilience, empathy, leadership, resourcefulness, etc. and they pull money, time, and resources away from productive education to run the kids through arbitrary psychometrics that have no real correlations to anything relevant to education.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496108]We test everyone in the US. Special Ed, ESL, students who are in the US under one year. Finland doesnt have the immigrant population with language barriers like the US. It also appears that there are no hidden agendas like here in the US. Most educators believe that the tests are only given for political reasons. To make a case why ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS should be shut down and privatized. This way corporate America can get its greedy hands on an untapped resource. Its already happening. Look into who is funding Common Core Curriculum (the next NCLB). Its corporations like Walmart, State Farm Insurance, and the Bill Gates Foundation. All sell products, all would love to "brand" the kids for life.

    I started my career teaching in a private Catholic school. I quickly realized that when I taught students about the slave trade how the school did not want the students to learn anything about the involvement of the catholic church. It was the Catholic Church's agenda to not criticize anything about it.

    If the government has its way and privatizes all schools, do you think the schools funded by oil companies will learn about an alternative energy source? Do you think the schools funded by Walmart will learn about health benefits for employees? Will the Verizon schools get any information about the link of cell phone use to brain cancer?...........Scary[/QUOTE]

    So Finland to America isn't an Apples to Apples comparison because they don't have to fight the language barrier or political correctness. I agree.

    Currently the left and union overstates their agenda just as the right would if they ran the schools. Do you really think that they aren't? I don't think one is any better than the other. Get rid of national mandates and then there would be an opportunity to let the people/states/localities choose what they want and competition would find the best solution for everyone.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=dmitexxi;4495708]She did, the school principal made the decision to throw it away[/QUOTE]

    Mayor Bloomberg created a system to grade schools like children with A, B, C,D, and F. It was another of HIS agendas and powers with mayoral control. In his quest to shut down schools to privatize them (charter schools) and hook up his own business partners (often not qualified)) he set a one of many parts in manipulative ways. When it comes to serious crimes in schools mayor Bloomberg loves to praise himself about incidents have gone down. Let me explain this remarkable turn around. The only person in the NYC public school who can call 911 is the principal. If a principal calls 911 "X" amount of times the overall school grade goes from an A to a B, B to a C, and so on. Imagine the position a NYC school principal would be in if she knew that one more call to 911 would place her school on a list to be shut down. Its the politicians way of controlling HIS public perception. We had an incident at our school recently where a special ed boy (18 yrs old) from the high school that is housed in my school who followed a girl from my school (11 yrs old) into the girls bathroom and assaulted her. The boy has issues and has been in police custody before, the girl is a recent Chinese immigrant whose parents speak no English. I am fortunate to have a principal who was a former teacher, unlike many in charter schools and small schools inside of existing schools that the mayor is pushing. My principal has integrity, she called 911 even knowing it would lower our over all school grade. The NY POST then labeled our school in the paper as one of the "underachieving schools" and is in need of being "shut down." How do you think our students reacted when they read this in the paper? Think it was even more difficult to gain their respect when teaching lessons in the classroom?

    PS: The NY POST is free for every student in all NYC public schools. Tenured teachers (not afraid to speak up) voiced their displeasure on behalf of all teachers in our school and asked if they could simply be thrown away because of their one sided view of all things bad when it comes to teachers. Our principal told the staff that the if a DOE official comes into the school and checks and we dont have the NY POST free for every student we could lose money from our budget!.......
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-20-2012 at 11:47 AM.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=finlee17;4496131]Criticizing standardized tests for typos is lame. Typos are a common with all proctored tests, but the benefit with standardized tests is that the mistake is identical on all tests and resolving the issue (e.g., throwing out the question out or giving everyone credit) has the same effect on all test takers. So, I donít think itís much of an issue.

    Anyway, Iím in the camp that advocates a reduction in standardized testing. Standardized tests cannot measure or evaluate creativity, critical thinking, resilience, empathy, leadership, resourcefulness, etc. and they pull money, time, and resources away from productive education to run the kids through arbitrary psychometrics that have no real correlations to anything relevant to education.[/QUOTE]

    The fact that we as a nation have fallen like a stone in "standardized tests". must, in the view of the NEA, be the tests and other factors. NOT the system.

    Copernicus is right though in many respects.... language barriers, $hitty parent support etc...make it a difficult job to succeed in. Many of the factors for success are out of their control BUT I believe standards need be set and changes made.

    the shame is the lack of change. The way the NEA fights change.

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=finlee17;4496131]Criticizing standardized tests for typos is lame. Typos are a common with all proctored tests, but the benefit with standardized tests is that the mistake is identical on all tests and resolving the issue (e.g., throwing out the question out or giving everyone credit) has the same effect on all test takers. So, I don’t think it’s much of an issue..[/QUOTE]

    Disagree: I have to hand in exams to my principal. If there is a typo I hear about it/ get reprimanded. I am sure to go over the exam thoroughly with spell check to be sure. I dont make 32 million dollars for creating my tests like the companies hired to make standardized tests. I dont think its asking too much for that company to make sure the test doesnt have typos, small or large. 32 million TAX PAYERS dollars for a test with no more than 50 questions. Our money down the drain and into the pockets of politician's friends.

    [QUOTE]Anyway, I’m in the camp that advocates a reduction in standardized testing. Standardized tests cannot measure or evaluate creativity, critical thinking, resilience, empathy, leadership, resourcefulness, etc. and they pull money, time, and resources away from productive education to run the kids through arbitrary psychometrics that have no real correlations to anything relevant to education[/QUOTE]

    Spot on!
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-20-2012 at 11:50 AM.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496218]Disagree: I have to hand in exams to my principal. If there is a typo I hear about it/ get reprimanded. I am sure to go over the exam thoroughly with spell check to be sure. I dont make 32 million dollars for creating my tests like the companies hired to make standardized tests. I dont think its asking too much for that company to make sure the test doesnt have typos, small or large. 32 million TAX PAYERS dollars for a test with no more than 50 questions. Our money down the drain and into the pockets of politician's friends.



    Spot on![/QUOTE]

    So the only valid evaluations are those done by the principal/Department Chair and the only people that have any idea what would improve education is the establishment (Union/Teachers/Administrators) right?

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496205]Mayor Bloomberg created a system to grade schools like children with A, B, C,D, and F. It was another of HIS agendas and powers with mayoral control. In his quest to shut down schools to privatize them (charter schools) and hook up his own business partners (often not qualified)) he set a one of many parts in manipulative ways. When it comes to serious crimes in schools mayor Bloomberg loves to praise himself about incidents have gone down. Let me explain this remarkable turn around. The only person in the NYC public school who can call 911 is the principal. If a principal calls 911 "X" amount of times the overall school grade goes from an A to a B, B to a C, and so on. Imagine the position a NYC school principal would be in if she knew that one more call to 911 would place her school on a list to be shut down. Its the politicians way of controlling HIS public perception. We had an incident at our school recently where a special ed boy (18 yrs old) from the high school that is housed in my school who followed a girl from my school (11 yrs old) into the girls bathroom and assaulted her. The boy has issues and has been in police custody before, the girl is a recent Chinese immigrant whose parents speak no English. I am fortunate to have a principal who was a former teacher, unlike many in charter schools and small schools inside of existing schools that the mayor is pushing. My principal has integrity, she called 911 even knowing it would lower our over all school grade. The NY POST then labeled our school in the paper as one of the "underachieving schools" and is in need of being "shut down." How do you think our students reacted when they read this in the paper? Think it was even more difficult to gain their respect when teaching lessons in the classroom?

    PS: The NY POST is free for every student in all NYC public schools. Tenured teachers (not afraid to speak up) voiced their displeasure on behalf of all teachers in our school and asked if they could simply be thrown away because of their one sided view of all things bad when it comes to teachers. Our principal told the staff that the if a DOE official comes into the school and checks and we dont have the NY POST free for every student we could lose money from our budget!.......[/QUOTE]

    So rather than trying to produce a different viewpoint you just want to silence the opposition?

  19. #59
    [QUOTE=Trades;4496231]So the only valid evaluations are those done by the principal/Department Chair and the only people that have any idea what would improve education is the establishment (Union/Teachers/Administrators) right?[/QUOTE]

    Do you think three pretty large/powerful groups to decide on school policies are not enough?

    My principal has a masters degree, administrative degree in education, passing grades on major teaching exams and 20 plus years experience in dealing with adolescent issues.

    Teachers have a masters degree, 30 credits above masters in education, passing grades on major teaching exams, and 10 plus years experience.

    Teachers Union is made up mostly of former teachers in the NYC public school system.

    Who else would be better to judge?
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-20-2012 at 12:02 PM.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=Trades;4496233]So rather than trying to produce a different viewpoint you just want to silence the opposition?[/QUOTE]

    No, Ruppert Murdoch resently went to court over issues with illegally hacking into 9/11 victims cell phone records to publish for profit.

    Do you think this type of person's message is something school children should be reading?

    Think his message is a fair one?

    Its most educated peoples opinion that the NY POST is often sensationalized news and degrading towards women with provocative pictures displayed.

    Think its a good paper for young readers to get correct information?

    Ruppert Murdoch's paper is the ONLY news paper provided for free in NYC schools.

    No other news paper aloud unless paid for.

    Do you think that's ok also?
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-20-2012 at 12:04 PM.

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