Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 124

Thread: NYC Standardized Spanish Exam

  1. #61
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,385
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496240]My principal has a masters degree, administrative degree in education, passing grades on major teaching exams and 20 plus years experience in dealing with adolescent issues.

    Teachers have a masters degree, 30 credits above masters in education, passing grades on major teaching exams, and 10 plus years experience.

    Teachers Union is made up mostly of former teachers in the NYC public school system.

    Who else would be better to judge?[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes the establishment can't see the forest for the trees. They have their own interests and biases at heart. You have mentioned Bill Gates a lot. I truly think his heart is in the right place. Maybe his ideas are good maybe they aren't but how will we ever know if nothing new can be tried or are dismissed because he chose the best students?

    Seems to me Bill Gates is the perfect example of an outside perspective that cause industry shattering change. Remember when he got started IBM, Digital and Xerox were the names in tech. However they were too big to see the PC (IBM and Digital) and the Mouse (Xerox) as a game changer. Gates saw the future and made it happen. The establishment didn't.

    Having degrees and certifications also means little to me. It just means that you were good at regurgitating what the establishment fed you.

    While you rail on against Walmart's foray into education as an indoctrination technique as though most people don't shop there anyway I will say that maybe Walmart would like their average employee to be better educated. I assume they are mostly just high school graduates.

    What proof do you have that Walmart is trying to take over our schools and poison the minds of America's youth?

    Evil greedy bastards only gave $958.9 million away last year!
    [QUOTE][B]The Walmart Foundation[/B]

    Creating opportunities so people can live better
    [B]Our Mission[/B]


    The Walmart Foundation strives to provide opportunities that improve the lives of individuals in our communities including our customers and associates. Through financial contributions, in-kind donations and volunteerism, the Walmart Foundation supports initiatives focused on enhancing opportunities in our four main focus areas:

    [LIST][*]Education[*]Workforce Development / Economic Opportunity[*]Environmental Sustainability[*]Health and Wellness[/LIST]
    [B]Spotlight: Walmart Global Giving Increases in Last Fiscal Year
    [/B]In fiscal year ending Jan. 31, 2012, Walmart and the Walmart Foundation donated $958.9 million in cash and in-kind contributions around the globe. The companyís U.S. giving grew nearly 20%, largely due to increased donations of produce, meats, poultry and other nutritious food to local food banks from Walmart stores, Samís Club locations and distribution centers. For our most recent annual giving press release and fact sheets, [URL="http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/news/10867.aspx"]click here[/URL].

    Walmart and the Walmart Foundation are in the second year of a [URL="http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/news/9863.aspx"]$2 billion cash and in-kind hunger relief campaign[/URL] that extends through 2015. The Foundationís contributions are strategically aimed at ending hunger for the 1 in 6 Americans that do not know where their next meal is coming from. As such, the Foundation seeks to fund initiatives that integrate hunger relief into our four focus areas.

    To learn more about our pledge to end hunger, [URL="http://walmartstores.com/CommunityGiving/9599.aspx"]click here[/URL].

    [B]How We Help[/B]

    In all of our giving efforts, we strive to meet the unmet needs of underserved populations and support organizations that give individuals access to a better life. We believe in operating globally and giving back locally. We encourage our associates to support programs that make a positive difference in their communities through volunteer efforts and financial contributions. We involve our associates in determining how Walmart Foundation dollars are used to support causes that are important to them.
    [/QUOTE]

  2. #62
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496250]No, Ruppert Murdoch resently went to court over issues with illegally hacking into 9/11 victims cell phone records to publish for profit.

    Do you think this type of person's message is something school children should be reading?

    Think his message is a fair one?

    Its most educated peoples opinion that the NY POST is often sensationalized news and degrading towards women with provocative pictures displayed.

    Think its a good paper for young readers to get correct information?

    Ruppert Murdoch's paper is the ONLY news paper provided for free in NYC schools.

    No other news paper aloud unless paid for.

    Do you think that's ok also?[/QUOTE]

    It's probably only because the Post is written on a children's reading level.

  3. #63
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496240]Do you think three pretty large/powerful groups to decide on school policies are not enough?

    My principal has a masters degree, administrative degree in education, passing grades on major teaching exams and 20 plus years experience in dealing with adolescent issues.

    Teachers have a masters degree, 30 credits above masters in education, passing grades on major teaching exams, and 10 plus years experience.

    Teachers Union is made up mostly of former teachers in the NYC public school system.

    Who else would be better to judge?[/QUOTE]

    I see. What you're saying is that anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in teacher retention and salary/benefit increases shouldn't be involved.

    At least you're honest.

  4. #64
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,385
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496250]No, Ruppert Murdoch resently went to court over issues with illegally hacking into 9/11 victims cell phone records to publish for profit.

    Do you think this type of person's message is something school children should be reading?

    Think his message is a fair one?

    Its most educated peoples opinion that the NY POST is often sensationalized news and degrading towards women with provocative pictures displayed.

    Think its a good paper for young readers to get correct information?

    Ruppert Murdoch's paper is the ONLY news paper provided for free in NYC schools.

    No other news paper aloud unless paid for.

    Do you think that's ok also?[/QUOTE]

    Why is it given for free? Is the school system buying it or is the Post providing it for free.

    Degrading to women? Please.

    I guess the "unbiased" NY Slimes is so much better right? There is no slant there. Maybe the right leaning paper can offset some of the liberal leaning text books/teachers. Those are ok too though, right?

  5. #65
    [QUOTE=southparkcpa;4496207]The fact that we as a nation have fallen like a stone in "standardized tests". must, in the view of the NEA, be the tests and other factors. NOT the system.

    Copernicus is right though in many respects.... language barriers, $hitty parent support etc...make it a difficult job to succeed in. Many of the factors for success are out of their control BUT I believe standards need be set and changes made.

    the shame is the lack of change. The way the NEA fights change.[/QUOTE]

    We’ve fallen in the math and sciences, which I don’t blame language barriers for because other countries have multilingual populations. I do blame poor public support (e.g., little parental oversight) and poor educational background of teachers in those subjects. So, I agree that standards need to be set, but I don’t see how standardized tests do that. Like many, I prepared myself for my SAT and GRE independent of the classroom. Technically, you don’t need teachers to prepare students for standardized tests. You only need a manual and someone to proctor the test. However, you need teachers to educate students and prepare the students self-teach. When you create an atmosphere in the classroom that puts precedence on good education, the test scores will follow.

    However, nobody seems to be arguing about the quality of education/curriculum. Most arguments are about pay, benefits, vacation, collective bargaining rights, # of administrators, #of teachers, #of students, and #of tests. This isn’t an education issue, this is an administration issue that has spilled into the classroom and is now affecting education. So, sure… the NEA definitely needs to take a look in the mirror and make changes. I do put a lot of blame on them, but most of that blame goes on their inability to produce quality teachers.

  6. #66
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496218]Disagree: I have to hand in exams to my principal. If there is a typo I hear about it/ get reprimanded. I am sure to go over the exam thoroughly with spell check to be sure. I dont make 32 million dollars for creating my tests like the companies hired to make standardized tests. I dont think its asking too much for that company to make sure the test doesnt have typos, small or large. 32 million TAX PAYERS dollars for a test with no more than 50 questions. Our money down the drain and into the pockets of politician's friends.



    Spot on![/QUOTE]

    I’ve proctored exams and I understand your disposition when it comes to typos and ambiguity in test questions. It’s why I hate prepping exams. The exam date pops on us as quickly as it does for the students and it’s f*cking time consuming. You put more time into that test than the students do prepping for it. I also agree with your stance that it’s unacceptable for a company to produce this type of error, but it’s still a weak argument against standardized tests. We just have to agree to disagree on that aspect of the issue.

  7. #67
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4496271]I see. What you're saying is that anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in teacher retention and salary/benefit increases shouldn't be involved.

    At least you're honest.[/QUOTE]

    Oh, so you mean like THE BOARD OF ED, right? What we had before NCLB and mayoral control. Where a "board" of parents/community leaders had an educated and thought out say in how schools were run. Too late now, businessmen politicians like Mayor Bloomberg fought very hard to get the public out of public school. Now they get their friends in the media to post ugly article after article about any civil servant, especially teachers so they can break their unions and revert back to days where workers have less rights.

    But yeah, I can see your point. Lets just allow anyone to have a say in things even if they dont have a clue. Why make educators feel like the professionals that they are when everyone else knows better?

    I mean its not like educators haven't earned any respect, gone to school, passed numerous tests to be in the position they are, are around all types of children everyday. I get it, the plumber or anyone for that matter should definitely have a say.

    But lets no stop there ok.

    Each time someone dies in a public hospital lets be sure to question everything the doctor does, lets stress the doctor out even more so the next operation he will have less confidence and more pressure knowing his name might be published in the NY POST.

    House on fire? Why didnt the fireman prevent it? We should have a say in that as well.

    Crime in neighborhoods? Why listen to the Police Commissioner when we, who do not carry a gun and are not in life threatening situations, know so much more.

    I definitely see your point.

    Lets do that for every person who serves the public.

    Why should they deserve any respect that they are doing things correctly when people who outside of the profession know much better..........

  8. #68
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    13,566
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496311]Oh, so you mean like THE BOARD OF ED, right? What we had before NCLB and mayoral control. Where a "board" of parents/community leaders had an educated and thought out say in how schools were run. Too late now, businessmen politicians like Mayor Bloomberg fought very hard to get the public out of public school. Now they get their friends in the media to post ugly article after article about any civil servant, especially teachers so they can break their unions and revert back to days where workers have less rights.

    But yeah, I can see your point. Lets just allow anyone to have a say in things even if they dont have a clue. Why make educators feel like the professionals that they are when everyone else knows better?

    I mean its not like educators haven't earned any respect, gone to school, passed numerous tests to be in the position they are, are around all types of children everyday. I get it, the plumber or anyone for that matter should definitely have a say.

    But lets no stop there ok.

    Each time someone dies in a public hospital lets be sure to question everything the doctor does, lets stress the doctor out even more so the next operation he will have less confidence and more pressure knowing his name might be published in the NY POST.

    House on fire? Why didnt the fireman prevent it? We should have a say in that as well.

    Crime in neighborhoods? Why listen to the Police Commissioner when we, who do not carry a gun and are not in life threatening situations, know so much more.

    I definitely see your point.

    Lets do that for every person who serves the public.

    Why should they deserve any respect that they are doing things correctly when people who outside of the profession know much better..........[/QUOTE]

    Wow. That's an awful lot of words to put in someone's mouth.

    No, you definitely [I]don't[/I] see my point.

    You're far too interested in selling one extreme or the other. It's obvious you're not interested in even having a discussion about anything in between, so I'll save myself the keystrokes.

    FYI, being this defensive isn't going to win anyone over in these arguments.

  9. #69
    [QUOTE=finlee17;4496298]I’ve proctored exams and I understand your disposition when it comes to typos and ambiguity in test questions. It’s why I hate prepping exams. The exam date pops on us as quickly as it does for the students and it’s f*cking time consuming. You put more time into that test than the students do prepping for it. I also agree with your stance that it’s unacceptable for a company to produce this type of error, but it’s still a weak argument against standardized tests. We just have to agree to disagree on that aspect of the issue.[/QUOTE]

    Typos on a test would not be such a big deal if there wasnt so much at stake. NYC public schools currently invest about 9 out of the 10 school months for test prep only to receive an exam that doesnt appear to be taken seriously by the company that is creating it. 9 OUT OF 10! No school trips, assemblies, school plays, and less social studies and science all for the sake of ONE TEST!

    Its a bit demoralizing to students and teachers who have invested time and energy into preparing for an exam that the government only wants to use in defense of firing teachers.
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-20-2012 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #70
    [QUOTE=finlee17;4496295]Weíve fallen in the math and sciences, which I donít blame language barriers for because other countries have multilingual populations. I do blame poor public support (e.g., little parental oversight) and poor educational background of teachers in those subjects. So, I agree that standards need to be set, but I donít see how standardized tests do that. Like many, I prepared myself for my SAT and GRE independent of the classroom. Technically, you donít need teachers to prepare students for standardized tests. You only need a manual and someone to proctor the test. However, you need teachers to educate students and prepare the students self-teach. When you create an atmosphere in the classroom that puts precedence on good education, the test scores will follow.

    However, nobody seems to be arguing about the quality of education/curriculum. Most arguments are about pay, benefits, vacation, collective bargaining rights, # of administrators, #of teachers, #of students, and #of tests. This isnít an education issue, this is an administration issue that has spilled into the classroom and is now affecting education. So, sureÖ the NEA definitely needs to take a look in the mirror and make changes. I do put a lot of blame on them, but most of that blame goes on their inability to produce quality teachers.[/QUOTE]



    Well said..........

  11. #71
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496323]Typos on a test would not be such a big deal if there wasnt so much at stake. NYC public schools currently invent about 9 out of the 10 school months for test prep only to receive an exam that doesnt appear to be taken seriously by the company that is creating it. 9 OUT OF 10! No school trips, assemblies, school plays, and less social studies and science all for the sake of ONE TEST!

    Its a bit demoralizing to students and teachers who have invested time and energy into preparing for an exam that the government only wants to use in defense of firing teachers.[/QUOTE]

    Look man, I'm your side. I'm all for reducing standardized tests. I get your frustration. I just think you should have lead the thread with a better criticism of standardized tests.

  12. #72
    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4496318]Wow. That's an awful lot of words to put in someone's mouth.

    No, you definitely [I]don't[/I] see my point.

    You're far too interested in selling one extreme or the other. It's obvious you're not interested in even having a discussion about anything in between, so I'll save myself the keystrokes.

    FYI, being this defensive isn't going to win anyone over in these arguments.[/QUOTE]

    I would see your point more clearly if I trusted what the government was doing. I dont trust politicians with children's education. They only care about a budget and how they look presently.

    I dont think you are seeing the bigger picture. Government is ONLY caring about cutting budget, they dont care if it is justified or not. Good teachers are being set up to look incompetent and the few that should not be in front of children are the center of attention.

    I am a good teacher. In fifteen years of teaching and coaching I have had a positive experience with students. Some students contact me presently and express how I've had a positive influence on them. My administrators have only giving me satisfactory evaluations with ways to improve in the future. I trust their judgement, the comments of students, and my own feelings that I do a good job.

    The government uses the media to deem ALL teachers as bad just to cut budgets and change policies with workers rights. They are presently creating manipulated tests and scoring them in unconventional ways to show teacher incompetence.

    Do you think I deserve to lose everything I've earned including the respect of my students and the ability to provide for my family over this manipulated political agenda?

  13. #73
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,385
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4496359]I would see your point more clearly if I trusted what the government was doing. I dont trust politicians with children's education. They only care about a budget and how they look presently.

    I dont think you are seeing the bigger picture. Government is ONLY caring about cutting budget, they dont care if it is justified or not. Good teachers are being set up to look incompetent and the few that should not be in front of children are the center of attention.

    I am a good teacher. In fifteen years of teaching and coaching I have had a positive experience with students. Some students contact me presently and express how I've had a positive influence on them. My administrators have only giving me satisfactory evaluations with ways to improve in the future. I trust their judgement, the comments of students, and my own feelings that I do a good job.

    The government uses the media to deem ALL teachers as bad just to cut budgets and change policies with workers rights. They are presently creating manipulated tests and scoring them in unconventional ways to show teacher incompetence.

    Do you think I deserve to lose everything I've earned including the respect of my students and the ability to provide for my family over this manipulated political agenda?[/QUOTE]

    This may be true in a city school but not in the rest of the country.

  14. #74
    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495405]You are assuming that high test scores on standardized test equate to being a good teacher. [/quote]

    No - I am assuming that movement in test scores is one metric to be used to assess the quality of teachers.

    [QUOTE]As far as the "merit pay" issue. Its impossible.[/QUOTE]

    If merit is irrelevant, then teachers are paid far too much.


    [QUOTE] We are already seeing cases across America where wide spread cheating is involved because of the money that is at stake because of testing. Principals are changing test scores because it means more money for their school districts. We are teaching the kids that money is the only thing that matters in life.[/QUOTE]

    And those teachers and principals should be ashamed of themselves, fired, and in jail (for fraud and theft).

    [QUOTE]Public school accepts all students. Not like private or charter where they are hand chosen. Public school gets the kids who have SEVERE behavior issues and awful home life along with some gifted. There is a HUGE difference from the gifted students to the lowest level.
    [/QUOTE]

    You should see the students at some of the private schools I know. They also take just about everybody, because the goal is to provide a religious education. They work with kids who have behavioral issues, who have learning disabilities. It's not just the best and the brightest.

    [QUOTE] I (or my principal) can easily choose 30 students from my school that would make me look like the greatest teacher just as easy as I could choose 30 to make me look awful. With so much money involved, who is going to monitor this so all teachers are on the fairest possible playing field and that the students are being treated fairly?[/QUOTE]

    How about the Teachers' Union. Let them do something productive for a change, and devise metrics that work for rating teacher quality, rather than just screaming that merit pay is impossible and any metrics anyone else suggests are wrong.

    [QUOTE] What teacher's get the gifted students as opposed to those who struggle? How about the students who can speak English and those who cant? Behavior issues? These are the variables that can possibly be seen on paper. [/QUOTE]

    Sure they can. Get a baseline on the students at the beginning of the year and measure progress.

    [QUOTE]How about the ones that cant be seen like the students who have caring parents that value education? How about the students whose parents are addicted to drugs? Students who have health issues? Students who are sexually abused at home? Going through divorce? Have a healthy meal provided for them by their parents as opposed to those on welfare?
    [/QUOTE]

    Again - compare kids [B]to themselves[/B]. Identify which teachers are reaching only some of the kids, which are reaching most, which are consistently reaching none. Keep track of how those kids do with other teachers. If you, as a teacher, consistently get more progress out of the kids in your class than the teachers the next year or the prior year did out of those same kids, you're probably an excellent teacher and should be rewarded for it. If you are consistently getting worse performance, you're probably a poor teacher and should be reprimanded, retrained, or fired. If you're average, then you're average.

    [QUOTE]Sadly under NCLB there are very little consequences for students. Any type of discipline towards a student could be deemed as "corporal punishment." This includes asking the student to stand in the hallway if he or she is out of control and are a safety issue to others. If the teacher puts the student in the hallway he is denying the student of an education. Crazy right? [/QUOTE]

    Not really. There's special education for kids who are out of control, crisis management paraprofessional help, etc. But teachers who can't control their classrooms have no business being at the front of a classroom. It's part of the job description.

    [QUOTE]As far as your question as to what I do with the 50-70% of students who do not do homework, there is not much.[/QUOTE]

    Does it impact their grades?
    [QUOTE]But back to what I do, I threaten that they might go to summer school, but under mayor Bloomberg, summer school is only 15 days.[/QUOTE]

    How about, instead of threatening summer school, you simply fail them.

    [QUOTE]The mayor has also threatened to close schools and reopen them with a new staff. If too many students fail, administrators put pressure on teachers to pass them.[/QUOTE]

    So? If students aren't doing their homework, fail them. Drop their grades. And if you are pressured, simply refuse to back down. After all, it's not like you can be fired.

  15. #75
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4496605]No - I am assuming that movement in test scores is one metric to be used to assess the quality of teachers.



    If merit is irrelevant, then teachers are paid far too much.




    And those teachers and principals should be ashamed of themselves, fired, and in jail (for fraud and theft).



    You should see the students at some of the private schools I know. They also take just about everybody, because the goal is to provide a religious education. They work with kids who have behavioral issues, who have learning disabilities. It's not just the best and the brightest.



    How about the Teachers' Union. Let them do something productive for a change, and devise metrics that work for rating teacher quality, rather than just screaming that merit pay is impossible and any metrics anyone else suggests are wrong.



    Sure they can. Get a baseline on the students at the beginning of the year and measure progress.



    Again - compare kids [B]to themselves[/B]. Identify which teachers are reaching only some of the kids, which are reaching most, which are consistently reaching none. Keep track of how those kids do with other teachers. If you, as a teacher, consistently get more progress out of the kids in your class than the teachers the next year or the prior year did out of those same kids, you're probably an excellent teacher and should be rewarded for it. If you are consistently getting worse performance, you're probably a poor teacher and should be reprimanded, retrained, or fired. If you're average, then you're average.



    Not really. There's special education for kids who are out of control, crisis management paraprofessional help, etc. But teachers who can't control their classrooms have no business being at the front of a classroom. It's part of the job description.



    Does it impact their grades?


    How about, instead of threatening summer school, you simply fail them.



    So? If students aren't doing their homework, fail them. Drop their grades. And if you are pressured, simply refuse to back down. After all, it's not like you can be fired.[/QUOTE]



    Doggin, you're sounding like a major tough guy here. Great.
    I can't reconcile this and many of your other stances with being undecided in November. Go Romney. C'mon. You know it's the right thing to do.

  16. #76
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;4496605]No - I am assuming that movement in test scores is one metric to be used to assess the quality of teachers.[/QUOTE]

    One metric? LOL, doesnt feel that way. Presently, students in NYC who fail all year long, are disrespectful, with behavior and safety issues but pass the second state exam are promoted. You see the second state exam is for kids who fail the first or main one, it is much easier and does not give credit to the classroom teacher when the student passes. The government gets the best of both worlds, teachers fail the first one, kids are promoted on the second one. In other cases there are students who do the right thing all year, hand in every project, are kind and considerate. If they fail both, they are LEFT BACK!!! Think of the irreversible damage that would do tho a kid who is left back failing two test that are proven to have major mistakes throughout. The standardize tests under mind every teacher in their quest to teach academic and social skills. We have about 10 cases in the sixth grade alone where AWFUL kids are being promoted without even summer school and GOOD students are being LEFT BACK.

    [QUOTE]If merit is irrelevant, then teachers are paid far too much. [/QUOTE]

    Sure, I will gladly take a pay cut. I tell you what, my babysitter charges me 10 dollars an hour to watch my child. I would take half of that at $5 an hour to watch and even teach the students each day. I work 7 hours a day (8am to 3pm) and see 210 students for one hour each per day. Want to do the math? Still think Im paid too much?


    [QUOTE]And those teachers and principals should be ashamed of themselves, fired, and in jail (for fraud and theft). [/QUOTE]

    Principals? teachers? Here we go again? You think they are not getting orders from the very top (Politicians)? But yeah, I get it, fire the teacher, fire worker!

    [QUOTE]You should see the students at some of the private schools I know. They also take just about everybody, because the goal is to provide a religious education. They work with kids who have behavioral issues, who have learning disabilities. It's not just the best and the brightest.[/QUOTE]

    I worked in a private school. The worst case in a private school has SOMEONE who cares to pay their tuition, if the student doesnt turn it around and are so out of control they are dismissed. Guess where that student winds up? PUBLIC SCHOOL, with far worse cases who dont have ANY adult who cares for them. Not even comparable.

    [QUOTE]How about the Teachers' Union. Let them do something productive for a change, and devise metrics that work for rating teacher quality, rather than just screaming that merit pay is impossible and any metrics anyone else suggests are wrong.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, tell that to the students in my school who are being left back unjustly. Ask them and their parents if they are happy that the teacher's union fought for tenure so that tenured teachers can defend and speak up on behalf of their kids and let the media and others who can possibly help correct this. No tenure, no teacher in their right mind would cross the government's policies.

    [QUOTE]Sure they can. Get a baseline on the students at the beginning of the year and measure progress.[/QUOTE]

    Possibly. But again, you are not factoring in socio-economic, hormonal, attitude, growth, and maturity issues from year to year



    [QUOTE]Again - compare kids [B]to themselves[/B]. Identify which teachers are reaching only some of the kids, which are reaching most, which are consistently reaching none. Keep track of how those kids do with other teachers. If you, as a teacher, consistently get more progress out of the kids in your class than the teachers the next year or the prior year did out of those same kids, you're probably an excellent teacher and should be rewarded for it. If you are consistently getting worse performance, you're probably a poor teacher and should be reprimanded, retrained, or fired. If you're average, then you're average.[/QUOTE]

    How would you measure "reaching?" There are thousands of variables. This is where you want your tax payer money spent? Scoring teachers year to year with data that doesnt tell much of the story? This instead of new school buildings to alleviate over crowding? textbooks? sports teams? and other resources that can truly help?

    [QUOTE]Not really. There's special education for kids who are out of control, crisis management paraprofessional help, etc. But teachers who can't control their classrooms have no business being at the front of a classroom. It's part of the job description.
    [/QUOTE]

    President Bush's NCLB lowered the criteria to get out of special ed. This was done to get rid of more special ed teachers because in many cases students are in classes that are much smaller than general ed. Special Ed students now are in general ed classrooms along with other students who should be in special ed but whose parents refuse to have them tested. Under NCLB there are very little consequences for students. If the government recognizes these obvious problems they have to address them. Its much easier to blame the teacher's classroom managment skills. Go take a tour of an average public school in NYC. Observe the bizarre behavior by students who have no adult in their life to guide them other than the teachers. See how violent and abusive they can be. Then get back to me if you think its reasonable to blame the teacher in most cases.

    [QUOTE]How about, instead of threatening summer school, you simply fail them.[/QUOTE]

    Teachers every year are reminded by their administrators to not fail more than 20% of the students no matter what. I may not be able to be fired on the spot, but I do have bosses that will make life miserable if I dont comply. The administrators answers are often along the lines of "this comes from above me." Thank god I have tenure and can at the very least voice my displeasure, that might lead to some sort of change.

    [QUOTE]So? If students aren't doing their homework, fail them. Drop their grades. And if you are pressured, simply refuse to back down. After all, it's not like you can be fired.[/QUOTE]

    Again, cant be fired, but boy can my bosses make life miserable if I dont comply. Even tenured teachers have to be careful of what they want to voice their displeasure about. From moldy classrooms to unruly students, there are many ways to get back at teachers who dont tote the company line. 98 degrees the last two days in NYC, didnt use one snow day, half our school has classrooms with no air conditioning, mayor didnt even think of the kids who severe health problems like asthma. Think the teachers who dont comply with the principal's demands get to work in air conditioned rooms on 98 degree days like today?.............
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-21-2012 at 03:35 PM.

  17. #77
    Copernicus, I'm truly curious. If standardized tests aren't the way to measure teachers performances, what objective measures will do the job better? And if there is no way to truly determine the quality of a teacher, then what's the point of having highly qualified, highly paid teachers? It doesn't seem as though you believe there is any way you can objectively prove you would be a better teacher than the average high school dropout.

  18. #78
    [QUOTE=Axil;4497545]Copernicus, I'm truly curious. If standardized tests aren't the way to measure teachers performances, what objective measures will do the job better? And if there is no way to truly determine the quality of a teacher, then what's the point of having highly qualified, highly paid teachers? It doesn't seem as though you believe there is any way you can objectively prove you would be a better teacher than the average high school dropout.[/QUOTE]

    I am not against all standardized tests. I believe a regents exam at the end of a school year in specific subjects is reasonable. I think the scores could be used as a tool for administrators to help teachers. But the tests today are administered as a business for the government to justify why all unions are bad. They are created awful with a purpose. Why else would they be fighting so hard EVERY DAY in the media to have it weigh more with teacher retention? Its gone so overboard with companies that are making boatloads of TAX PAYERS money on this. The ENTIRE school year with the exception of the last month focuses on JUST TESTING. Do you remember test days? Pretty sad and nerve racking. The government has created a school system where this is happening 10-20 times as much. It is so sad. Students are pre tested, tested, and post tested all year long with test booklets created by companies outside the classroom. These tests trump everything the teacher does in the classroom on a day in day out basis. It under minds every teacher in the system. Its way over the top. The pressure that we are putting on 9 and 10 year olds is criminal. Yes, criminal. These are children we are talking about, not adults. I teach in NYC, the most diverse, cultural, city in the world, with museums, Broadway shows, and historical sites everywhere. Want to know how many field trips the students went on this year? A whole ONE! The reason, cant give up any time that the kids could be preparing for the test! One field trip, no field day, no concerts, no student/ faculty sports competitions, no assemblies, nothing fun that would entice the borderline student to "stick with it." The government has taken EVERY incentive out of schools for kids to want to be there and learn.
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-21-2012 at 03:33 PM.

  19. #79
    We all know the system has value depending on what kind of educated citizens we produce. Producing better educated citizens will also produce more revenue. Producing less educated citizens will produce less revenue and teachers pay should go down accordingly.

    This entire issue is about revenue and value based on results. Either produce more productive people or figure out how you want to split a reduced spend. The Teachers Union can split the pie anyway they want to but in the end if they don't get good results the revenue stream for the communities the work in is going to go down and so should their pay.

    The Teachers Union better figure this out because without results there membership is going to suffer.

  20. #80
    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4497060]Doggin, you're sounding like a major tough guy here. Great.
    [B]I can't reconcile this and many of your other stances with being undecided in November. [/B]Go Romney. C'mon. You know it's the right thing to do.[/QUOTE]

    I've been on the Romney bandwagon since the primaries. I was praying the GOP would nominate him (or Huntsman) as Republicans I would be happy to vote for running against a president I will be happy to vote against, and begging the GOP not to put up Santorum.

    So yeah, this is one centrist independent who'll be voting Republican in the general for the first time in a decade

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us