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Thread: NYC Standardized Spanish Exam

  1. #1
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    NYC Standardized Spanish Exam

    Surprise, surprise, turns out that there was a problem with the NYC Standardized Spanish test in my school (not sure if it was city wide). The students were asked to choose two questions from 31, 32, and 33, but question 33 turned out not to exist. This posed a HUGE problem for our students and teachers. Students asked if they failed the exam because of the one question would they have a chance to take it over? Fail for the year? Have to go to summer school? No one had the answer. You see this is what happens when standardized tests are more important to politicians than teachers, it stresses out the whole system and does more harm than good.

    I spoke to some Spanish teachers today who told me that the test had major mistakes. Just like the other city and state exams that Mayor Bloomberg wants to fire teachers over. Question 33 would have been a picture that the students needed to write about, but there was just no picture to be found.

    This is one of many things that are wrong about the amount of standardized testing politicians force on students. On top of all the standardized testing, teachers are forced to give their own final in the classroom. More and more testing for students. On my personal exam there happened to be a typo. I was able to write the correction on the board when a student pointed it out to me. However, no one can correct the city, since Mayor Bloomberg already knows everything, including teachers who should be fired and schools that should be shut down. Since Bloomberg has mayoral control of the NYC school system, and there continue to be mistake after mistake on these standardized tests that he ultimately has control over, shouldn't he be fired?

  2. #2
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    Why test at all. Isn't everyone a winner, isn't everyone equal and special?

    Ban Standardized Testing. All students get A's, all teachers get Bonuses.

    It's only fair.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495117]Why test at all. Isn't everyone a winner, isn't everyone equal and special?

    Ban Standardized Testing. All students get A's, all teachers get Bonuses.

    It's only fair.[/QUOTE]

    Not surprised at your response. Typical, blame teachers instead of scratching the surface a bit deeper. I guess its just fine to fire teachers over poor test scores even if the tests are proven to be flawed.

    Do you realize that students are taking up to 15-20 standardized (and practice standardized) tests a year just to prove why teachers arent worthy of their salaries? Giving one standardized test in a small long island district costs up to 3 million dollars when all is said and done. That doesnt include endless hours of boring test prep and workbooks that students use to prepare for these exams. Its over the the top. Not advocating no testing at all. But if politicians want to fire teachers over poor test scores shouldnt they be held accountable to at least have tests without errors????

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495134]Not surprised at your response. Typical, blame teachers instead of scratching the surface a bit deeper. I guess its just fine to fire teachers over poor test scores even if the tests are proven to be flawed.

    Do you realize that students are taking up to 15-20 standardized (and practice standardized) tests a year just to prove why teachers arent worthy of their salaries? Giving one standardized test in a small long island district costs up to 3 million dollars when all is said and done. That doesnt include endless hours of boring test prep and workbooks that students use to prepare for these exams. Its over the the top. Not advocating no testing at all. But if politicians want to fire teachers over poor test scores shouldnt they be held accountable to at least have tests without errors????[/QUOTE]


    A teacher's job is to deliver. No deliver=no job.
    Why is it any different from a national sales manager (or any other level) who does not deliver the sales numbers? Or the marketing VP who fails on profit? Or the production manager who can't delever the amount of finished product needed?
    Teachers have been hiding WAY too long. I do agree that parents area big part of the problem. Teacher's job to get through to mommy and daddy.

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495134]Not surprised at your response. Typical, blame teachers instead of scratching the surface a bit deeper. [/QUOTE]

    Not suprised at your response. Typical, blame tests instead of scratching the surface a bit deeper and seeing how utterly unprepared most kids in Public School are, for test, life and the real world.

    But hey, you're just a low paid, unappreciated, self-sacrificing martyr, giving up your life for us ungrateful heathens, right? Almost Jesus-like.

    Shoukldn't you be in cla.....on, right. You're off now. My bad.

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    [QUOTE=palmetto defender;4495142]A teacher's job is to deliver. No deliver=no job.
    Why is it any different from a national sales manager (or any other level) who does not deliver the sales numbers? Or the marketing VP who fails on profit? Or the production manager who can't delever the amount of finished product needed?
    Teachers have been hiding WAY too long. I do agree that parents area big part of the problem. Teacher's job to get through to mommy and daddy.[/QUOTE]

    Wow, really? Compare a teacher to sales is ridiculous. A sales person has control over selling the product. If he is a great salesman then he will sell his product to his audience. He is also selling his product in an environment that is somewhat interested in buying. I dont get a choice of my audience. Much of my audience has little to no interst in the product Im selling. Teachers have little to no control over a 12 year old taking the information presented and then applying it. Last time I looked most 12 year olds do not like homework, they dont like math either. You could be the greatest "salesman" for math but to a 12 year old he or she aint buyin,' no matter what. 12 year olds go through changes, changes that affect their personalities, affect their response to adults. Children's hormones are constantly changing. The salesman doesnt have to deal with that in any amount of comparable numbers. I have an entire classroom of students who's hormones are affecting their personalities 100% of the time. Last time I looked, 12 year olds deal with many of these issues irrationally. Sometimes the issues are health and divorce. Pretty serious stuff that salesman dont have to factor into when selling their product.

    I give homework just about every night. I get about 50 to 65% complete on a daily basis. I should be fired because of this? I did my job. I supplied the students with homework. Its up to the student and parent to apply what has been learned. With that logic should we fire the doctor who prescribes medicine to the patient who refuses to take it and dies?

    My job is to also get through to "mommy and daddy?" I really hope you are joking. Being that you speak with such confidence, how might you address this? I call the parents of my lowest level students mostly with no response. Many of these parents dont have working phones or have severe issues themselves and dont want to deal with their kids at all. There are also parent teacher nights, emails, and phone to contact the teacher on the part of interested parents. Most of the lowest level students parent's I NEVER get a response from. Should I be required to go to there house too?

    You my friend are out of touch with what currently is going on in classrooms and how little teachers are supplied with the necessary resources to be successful.

    But I get it, its much easier to listen to corporate America, who controls the media, and their quest to get rid of unions.
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-19-2012 at 11:07 AM.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495173]Words, Lots and Lost of Words[/QUOTE]

    TLDR: Wargarbl and excuse making, Union talking points and Anti-Corporate ranting.

    Blame everyone but the Teacher [SIZE="1"](TM) [/SIZE] propaganda rolls on.....

    Surely, the best thing we can do for our economy is hire another million of you at $120,000/year total annual compensation.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4495146]Not suprised at your response. Typical, blame tests instead of scratching the surface a bit deeper and seeing how utterly unprepared most kids in Public School are, for test, life and the real world.

    But hey, you're just a low paid, unappreciated, self-sacrificing martyr, giving up your life for us ungrateful heathens, right? Almost Jesus-like.

    Shoukldn't you be in cla.....on, right. You're off now. My bad.[/QUOTE]

    The tests have MAJOR mistakes! There also MULTIPLE STANDARDIZED TESTS that the students are taking ALL YEAR LONG. These test cost MILLIONS of tax payers money. It is 12 years of it and its proven to NOT HELP. Students ARENT going on meaningful field trips, have less music and art, and less time for after school activities and sports because of the demands of theses tests!

    My family's ability to live and eat should in part be judged on tests that have such major mistakes? Got it

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495188]The tests have MAJOR mistakes! There also MULTIPLE STANDARDIZED TESTS that the students are taking ALL YEAR LONG. These test cost MILLIONS of tax payers money. It is 12 years of it and its proven to NOT HELP. Students ARENT going on meaningful field trips, have less music and art, and less time for after school activities and sports because of the demands of theses tests!

    My family's ability to live and eat should in part be judged on tests that have such major mistakes? Got it[/QUOTE]

    The first step in fixing Education in America is breaking the Teachers Union like a twig, and holding accountable people like you, who seem to lack even the basics of accountabillity and responsabillity for their work and want to blame every other thing they can think of for why our system sucks and our students so poorly educated despite endless amounts of money thrown at you and the schools.

    Enjoy your summer off, and your $120,000/year in total compensation, my "poor starving" friend.

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495188]The tests have MAJOR mistakes! There also MULTIPLE STANDARDIZED TESTS that the students are taking ALL YEAR LONG. These test cost MILLIONS of tax payers money. It is 12 years of it and its proven to NOT HELP. Students ARENT going on meaningful field trips, have less music and art, and less time for after school activities and sports because of the demands of theses tests!

    My family's ability to live and eat should in part be judged on tests that have such major mistakes? Got it[/QUOTE]

    Wow after this post I have to assume you are a DRAMA teacher...

    Meaningful field trips, please!

    Why is a missing question when you had to pick 2 of 3 that horrible. They just do 31 and 32, Woo hoo, I chose the 2 that exist! :rolleyes:

    Less time for after school activities could be blamed on you giving homework every night too. Why can't you get it all in during the day? There have been several studies that show no value in homework.

    Shouldn't you look at the tests as an opportunity to show how well you are doing instead of assuming that everyone will fail?

    I have said this to you before and never got an answer but do you think that adults don't have problems? Employees and their colleagues and customers all have real world problems too. Money problems, health problems, high stress due to marital problems, kid problems, parents health problems, cut backs at work, kids not learning anything at school, etc.

    You assume a salesman's only problem is how hard he works but don't take into account the customer's attitude, the economy, the competition or even how bad the product is that he "has" to sell. Now you will say then he should go to a different company with a better product and I pre-counter you with, then why don't you go to a different school?

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495173]Wow, really? Compare a teacher to sales is ridiculous. A sales person has control over selling the product. If he is a great salesman then he will sell his product to his audience. He is also selling his product in an environment that is somewhat interested in buying. I dont get a choice of my audience. Much of my audience has little to no interst in the product Im selling. Teachers have little to no control over a 12 year old taking the information presented and then applying it.[/quote]

    So what you're saying is that the quality of the teacher has no impact on the quality of the results?

    That doesn't seem like an argument for [I][B]increasing[/B][/I] teacher pay, Cop.

    You can't have it both ways. Either teachers are important, key cogs in the education system that can seriously impact the lives of their students - in which case, the good ones should be rewarded and the bad ones should be discarded quickly and without cavil - or they don't, in which case there are no good or bad teachers and they should all be paid minimum wage, since anyone can do an equally good job.

    Which is it?
    [QUOTE]I give homework just about every night. I get about 50 to 65% complete on a daily basis. I should be fired because of this? I did my job. I supplied the students with homework. Its up to the student and parent to apply what has been learned. With that logic should we fire the doctor who prescribes medicine to the patient who refuses to take it and dies?[/QUOTE]

    So - what do you do when you get 50-60% complete? What are the consequences for the students?

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495188]The tests have MAJOR mistakes! There also MULTIPLE STANDARDIZED TESTS that the students are taking ALL YEAR LONG. These test cost MILLIONS of tax payers money. It is 12 years of it and its proven to NOT HELP. Students ARENT going on meaningful field trips, have less music and art, and less time for after school activities and sports because of the demands of theses tests!

    My family's ability to live and eat should in part be judged on tests that have such major mistakes? Got it[/QUOTE]

    You aren't winning me over with the whole public school students are overworked argument. Go back to the errors on the standardized test argument. At least there I'll agree to fire the company preparing them and get one in that can write up a test without errors.

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    Here's a tidbit on Public Education you all might be interested in. Be sure to check out the bolded part.


    Morning Bell: School Choice in D.C. Saved…For Now
    Amy Payne

    President Obama has begun “evolving“ his positions on various policy issues as polls show him neck and neck with Mitt Romney. His latest about-face restores a popular school voucher program for needy children in Washington, D.C.—after he had yanked its funding.

    Thanks to the tireless efforts of Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT), the Obama Administration has agreed to restore funding for the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship for another year.

    The D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program (OSP), which allows children from low-income homes to escape the underperforming D.C. public schools and attend a private school of their choice, has given scholarships to nearly 5,000 children since 2004. Although legislation passed by Congress and signed by the President last year authorized the program to continue for five years, the President’s budget request for fiscal year 2013 went back on his word and eliminated the program’s funding, giving what was authorized for the scholarships to the public schools instead.

    In seeking to end the program, the President sided with the teachers union, which consistently opposes policies like school choice that improve student outcomes.
    Yesterday, Boehner and Lieberman announced they had reached an agreement with the Administration to restore the program for at least the next school year.

    “Thousands of families have taken advantage of this scholarship program to give their children an opportunity to succeed in life, and there’s strong evidence that it’s both effective and cost-effective,” Boehner said.

    [B]The D.C. OSP has been highly successful. According to federally mandated evaluations of the program, student achievement has increased, and graduation rates of voucher students have increased significantly. Graduation rates in D.C. public schools languish (hovering around 55 percent), and the public school system ranks last in the country in terms of academic achievement. Yet, students who used a voucher to attend private school had a 91 percent graduation rate. In addition, 89 percent of OSP graduates have gone on to enroll at a 2- or 4-year college or university.
    And its cost effectiveness is clear. At $8,000, the vouchers are a bargain compared to the more than $18,000 spent per child by D.C. public schools.[/B]

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    What a great thread!:D



    I don't think people bash teachers as much as government officials not trying to make changes to the system.
    Instead its about unions and votes not the children.
    Last edited by cedk; 06-19-2012 at 12:37 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Trades;4495223]Wow after this post I have to assume you are a DRAMA teacher...

    Meaningful field trips, please!

    Why is a missing question when you had to pick 2 of 3 that horrible. They just do 31 and 32, Woo hoo, I chose the 2 that exist! :rolleyes:

    Less time for after school activities could be blamed on you giving homework every night too. Why can't you get it all in during the day? There have been several studies that show no value in homework.

    Shouldn't you look at the tests as an opportunity to show how well you are doing instead of assuming that everyone will fail?

    I have said this to you before and never got an answer but do you think that adults don't have problems? Employees and their colleagues and customers all have real world problems too. Money problems, health problems, high stress due to marital problems, kid problems, parents health problems, cut backs at work, kids not learning anything at school, etc.

    You assume a salesman's only problem is how hard he works but don't take into account the customer's attitude, the economy, the competition or even how bad the product is that he "has" to sell. Now you will say then he should go to a different company with a better product and I pre-counter you with, then why don't you go to a different school?[/QUOTE]

    So many things that you are misinformed about. Im not surprised, you are not in a school.

    Meaningful field trips? You mean field trips to places like the Museum of Natural History in NYC or the Museum of Art? Broadway plays? Science Museums? Yeah, I can see how that might not be inspirational to the next generation of professionals......:rolleyes: But lets give them another test, its not like students are dropping out in record numbers under No Child Left Behind.

    But I get it, you see no value in hands on experience outside the classroom. What if I told you that under NCLB Science and Social studies had been cut in half, Phys Ed cut more than half. What would you think then? Would you argue that being healthy is not important? Knowing your rights as a citizen is overrated?

    The focus on standardized test are so over the top right now it is absurd. It is all that students prepare for. Many of the questions are "field questions" and dont even count. Kids are so over tested they cant decide what is important want what isnt. It cost NY tax payers 32 million dollars for a test with errors and you are ok with this? No judgement there as to where the money is spent, but the teachers, they dont deserve. How about the kid that prepares all year only to see a test with mistakes? He starts to take it less and less seriously. Or how about the questions the kids prepared for but now are mistakes causing the kids to fail and the teacher to be labeled poorly according to their teacher data reports? You are not in a school. It is much different than 20 years ago. Many kids are unprepared. They see a test with mistakes and no real answer as to what to do and they give up. Quit on the test. Yes, many do this. This is ok in your world?

    I dont believe in a lot of homework. I believe time for homework after school should be at the most 20 minutes. The rest should be spent on family. Under No Child Left Behind homework is MANDATED. It is absurd the amount that the teacher is FORCED to give. Homework that comes already packaged that is not created by the teacher but must be marked by the teacher. You are misinformed. Homework has NOTHING to do with what doesnt get done in the classroom, it is to reinforce what has already been learned. Again, something that someone from outside the classroom would not know. Why so much homework given to students? Not about them learning, any parent can see that. Its way too much. Just another way to under-mind the teachers and try to convince the public how bad teachers are to break their union.

    I could look at my own tests that are given to judge how much students know. Its not about me, its about them, the students. Not the tests the government creates because they often cover material that is not given to us. The tests are manipulated for a much larger agenda.
    Last edited by copernicus; 06-19-2012 at 12:38 PM.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495268]So many things that you are misinformed about. Im not surprised, you are not in a school.

    Meaningful field trips? You mean field trips to places like the Museum of Natural History in NYC or the Museum of Art? Broadway plays? Science Museums? Yeah, I can see how that might not be inspirational to the next generation of professionals......:rolleyes: But lets give them another test, its not like students are dropping out in record numbers under No Child Left Behind.

    But I get it, you see no value in hands on experience outside the classroom. What if I told you that under NCLB Science and Social studies had been cut in half, Phys Ed cut more than half. What would you think then? Would you argue that being healthy is not important? Knowing your rights as a citizen is overrated?

    The focus on standardized test are so over the top right now it is absurd. It is all that students prepare for. Many of the questions are "field questions" and dont even count. Kids are so over tested they cant decide what is important want what isnt. It cost NY tax payers 32 million dollars for a test with errors and you are ok with this? No judgement there as to where the money is spent, but the teachers, they dont deserve. How about the kid that prepares all year only to see a test with mistakes? He starts to take it less and less seriously. Or how about the questions the kids prepared for but now are mistakes causing the kids to fail and the teacher to be labeled poorly according to their teacher data reports? You are not in a school. It is much different than 20 years ago. Many kids are unprepared. They see a test with mistakes and no real answer as to what to do and they give up. Quit on the test. Yes, many do this. This is ok in your world?

    I dont believe in a lot of homework. I believe time for homework after school should be at the most 20 minutes. The rest should be spent on family. Under No Child Left Behind homework is MANDATED. It is absurd the amount that the teacher is FORCED to give. Homework that comes already packaged that is not created by the teacher but must be marked by the teacher. You are misinformed. Homework has NOTHING to do with what doesnt get done in the classroom, it is to reinforce what has already been learned. Again, something that someone from outside the classroom would not know. Why so much homework given to students. Not about them learning, any parent can see that. Its way too much. Just another way to under-mind the teachers and try to convince the public how bad teachers are to break their union.

    I could look at my own tests that are given to judge how much students know. Not the ones the government creates because they often cover material that is not given to us. The tests are manipulated for a much larger agenda.[/QUOTE]

    I have 2 kids. They just finished 4th and 7th grade. The 7th grader has a great science program and studied the constitution in social studies. She had to know each amendment and what it meant.

    We have been through this over and over. Don't assume that I don't know what is going on. I am an involved parent and the son of 2 teachers. I know the point of homework but I have also read about several studies that show that homework isn't making a bit of difference.

    I have never said I believe in NCLB, I have never said I think the administration is correct, I have never said teachers don't deserve the money they make. What I have said is the hearing you cry constantly about the horrible tests, horrible parents and horrible parents that expect you to be held accountable is tiresome. You somehow think you should be treated differently that every other worker in America and that your job is sooooo much harder than everyone elses. In that you are wrong.

    You chose to teach in NYC. WHY?!?! That is the ultimate question. If it is so bad then get out and teach in a civilized district. As a "public servant" you ultimately work for the tax payer. Sometimes you will be judged unfairly, it is the nature of the beast.

    As I have said over and over you have choices:
    Go to another district.
    Change fields.
    Be a part of the solution.

    You can go into politics, administration or the union and try to find solutions. Instead you are complaining on a message board, beating your drum over and over trying to convince the 7 of us that you are treated unfairly. Most of us here recognize that there are negatives to your job but there are a ton of positives and there is a long line of people that are waiting tables and applying for teaching openings. Don't worry, someone will take your job when you move on if you don't like it enough to leave.

    Simple supply and demand should show what your position should get paid the way it does for 85% of working Americans but the union prevents that for the other 15%.

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    I will add that my kids scored in the top 10% on the NJ state exams every year and say they are easy. What is the big deal?

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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4495245]Here's a tidbit on Public Education you all might be interested in. Be sure to check out the bolded part.


    Morning Bell: School Choice in D.C. Saved…For Now
    Amy Payne

    President Obama has begun “evolving“ his positions on various policy issues as polls show him neck and neck with Mitt Romney. His latest about-face restores a popular school voucher program for needy children in Washington, D.C.—after he had yanked its funding.

    Thanks to the tireless efforts of Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT), the Obama Administration has agreed to restore funding for the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship for another year.

    The D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program (OSP), which allows children from low-income homes to escape the underperforming D.C. public schools and attend a private school of their choice, has given scholarships to nearly 5,000 children since 2004. Although legislation passed by Congress and signed by the President last year authorized the program to continue for five years, the President’s budget request for fiscal year 2013 went back on his word and eliminated the program’s funding, giving what was authorized for the scholarships to the public schools instead.

    In seeking to end the program, the President sided with the teachers union, which consistently opposes policies like school choice that improve student outcomes.
    Yesterday, Boehner and Lieberman announced they had reached an agreement with the Administration to restore the program for at least the next school year.

    “Thousands of families have taken advantage of this scholarship program to give their children an opportunity to succeed in life, and there’s strong evidence that it’s both effective and cost-effective,” Boehner said.

    [B]The D.C. OSP has been highly successful. According to federally mandated evaluations of the program, student achievement has increased, and graduation rates of voucher students have increased significantly. Graduation rates in D.C. public schools languish (hovering around 55 percent), and the public school system ranks last in the country in terms of academic achievement. Yet, students who used a voucher to attend private school had a 91 percent graduation rate. In addition, 89 percent of OSP graduates have gone on to enroll at a 2- or 4-year college or university.
    And its cost effectiveness is clear. At $8,000, the vouchers are a bargain compared to the more than $18,000 spent per child by D.C. public schools.[/B][/QUOTE]

    It picks a chooses the students they want to be a part of their program. Very similar to charter schools in NYC where the "wink, wink" lottery chooses the highly motivated/highest scoring student over the challenging one. The challenging students are left for the public school teacher to deal with. Just a glorified private school with numbers that make them look good and other numbers that make educators look bad. Mayor Bloomberg "proves" how great schools are improving under him in one breathe and shows other numbers how the teachers and schools need to be fired and closed in another breathe. What is it then?

    Ask ANY teacher in NYC if they think schools are better now under Bloomberg's policies and NCLB. I would say that close to 100% would tell you that Mayor Bloomberg and NCLB has destroyed schools. Guess they are all wrong..........

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    [QUOTE=Trades;4495287]I will add that my kids scored in the top 10% on the NJ state exams every year and say they are easy. What is the big deal?[/QUOTE]

    I would say that your kids have very good parents who are present to guide them in the right direction. IMHO, there are far less "involved" parents presently because of many factors including that both have to work full time and are not there when the child might need it the most.

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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4495304]I would say that your kids have very good parents who are present to guide them in the right direction. IMHO, there are far less "involved" parents presently because of many factors including that both have to work full time and are not there when the child might need it the most.[/QUOTE]

    So you admit that the teacher has little to do with it then? :D

    Seriously though. I have seen you rail on about the poor lot in life of the American (NYC) teacher. What is your proposed solution?

    What I get from your posts is, "Oh poor me", never a solution or a proposal other than stop blaming the teachers start blaming everyone else but the union. I think the average conservative/libertarian here is arguing a different point than you. We are complaining about the escalating and never ending costs of a public education SYSTEM that is bankrupting towns and showing little for the expense. Because of this we think there should be changes.

    Personally, I don't blame ALL of the teachers. Like ever industry there are good and bad and they cross the entire spectrum. The problem is that after tenure the bad are almost impossible to get rid of. That is my issue with the teachers. I know you have a sometimes thankless job but guess what, we all do at times. You get the benefit of seeing the 40% of the kids that are good students prosper and learn.

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