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Thread: Sanchez, as a quarterback, has improved each of his first three seasons.

  1. #201
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4498363]You might want to re-check that.

    The #11 and #9 rankings you quoted were based ENTIRELY on sack totals.[/QUOTE]

    You recheck it and get your head examined while you're at it.

    I suppose you're saying for '11 they used a different ranking technique? LOL

    Go away.

  2. #202
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    [QUOTE=jetrider;4498374]You recheck it and get your head examined while you're at it.

    I suppose you're saying for '11 they used a different ranking technique? LOL

    Go away.[/QUOTE]
    I didn't say that. You said that. In 2011, the Jets were ranked #20 by nfl.com. Why? Because they gave up the 20th most sacks in the NFL.

    Here's your LOL.

    I'm saying that if you look at the nfl.com stats you referred to in which the Jets were ranked #11 and #9 respectively, and which you claim took several factors into account, you'll see that the rankings are based ENTIRELY on sacks allowed totals. Same is true for 2011.

    Look again and tell me I'm wrong.

    And let's see if you can respond once without name-calling or characterizations.

  3. #203
    [QUOTE=Jordy;4498397]I didn't say that. You said that. In 2011, the Jets were ranked #20 by nfl.com. Why? Because they gave up the 20th most sacks in the NFL.

    Here's your LOL.

    I'm saying that if you look at the nfl.com stats you referred to in which the Jets were ranked #11 and #9 respectively, and which you claim took several factors into account, you'll see that the rankings are based ENTIRELY on sacks allowed totals. Same is true for 2011.

    Look again and tell me I'm wrong.

    And let's see if you can respond once without name-calling or characterizations.[/QUOTE]



    FWIW, sack totals are highly misleading from the outset as they are absolute numbers, and don't take into account how often a QB drops back. That's without even getting into any real analysis of the sacks.

    For example, QB1 drops back 550 times and gets sacked 40 times. QB2 drops back 300 times and gets sacked 30 times. Which O line was "worse" ?

  4. #204
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    [QUOTE=jpoppy7;4498351]If you think Jets didn't have one of the best pass-protecting OL's in 2009 and 2010, you either (1) weren't watching the same games I was, (2) don't understand that even the best OLs in the league give up some pressure and sacks, or (3) don't watch the Jets the same way you watch other teams. I assume its a combination of 2 and 3, which is understandable. I get very frustrated when the Jets give up pressure, I don't care all that much when, say, the Lions give up a sack.

    In any case, for 2009 and 2010, Jets pass-protection was among the best in the league. Brick, Mangold, Moore, and Woody were among the best at their positions, and LG was adequate, especially for being the weak link. Obviously last year was much worse.[/QUOTE]

    Obviously, even the top OL will get beat once in awhile.

    Sanchez was running for his life in '09, but it got written off as the rookie's lack of experience.

    He looked tv cameras straight in the iris and took the blame for his teammates again and again.

    I expected dramatic OL improvement in '10 but it wasn't the case.

    This fab OL you speak of cost us the AFCC.

    Also, Brick is the most overrated, overpaid, snoozing LT in the league.

    But he's voted to the Pro Bowl consistently by the school bus Madden crowd that are suckers for a catchy name.

    The difference in '11 is that more people began to notice what myself, buzzsaw, and perhaps few others, saw happening all along.

    It just got so bad the flaws were impossible to conceal.

    [QUOTE]Most obvious example of a team with worse pass protection last year, but much better passing offense, was Giants. Their OL was worse than ours at pass protection, but because Manning was maybe the best QBs under pressure, and they have better WRs is Nicks and Cruz, their passing offense was far superior, one of the best in the league.[/QUOTE]

    LOL. This thread is about Mark's improvement after 3 seasons, and you're comparing him to Eli who's entering his 9th year.

    And you accuse me of not judging everyone fairly ... go figure.

  5. #205
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4498397]I didn't say that. You said that. In 2011, the Jets were ranked #20 by nfl.com. Why? Because they gave up the 20th most sacks in the NFL.

    Here's your LOL.

    I'm saying that if you look at the nfl.com stats you referred to in which the Jets were ranked #11 and #9 respectively, and which you claim took several factors into account, you'll see that the rankings are based ENTIRELY on sacks allowed totals. Same is true for 2011.

    Look again and tell me I'm wrong.

    And let's see if you can respond once without name-calling or characterizations.[/QUOTE]

    $10 says Jordy can get into some kind of pissing match with Mother Theresa and the Pope at the same time.

  6. #206
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4498427]$10 says Jordy can get into some kind of pissing match with Mother Theresa and the Pope at the same time.[/QUOTE]

    LMAO

    No wonder he's unemployed; nobody can stand him for 5 minutes.

  7. #207
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4498423]FWIW, sack totals are highly misleading from the outset as they are absolute numbers, and don't take into account how often a QB drops back. That's without even getting into any real analysis of the sacks.

    For example, QB1 drops back 550 times and gets sacked 40 times. QB2 drops back 300 times and gets sacked 30 times. Which O line was "worse" ?[/QUOTE]
    I know you've been wrapped up with Stokes for 3 days straight but you ARE following this conversation right and not just jumping in?

  8. #208
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    [QUOTE=jetrider;4498438]LMAO

    No wonder he's unemployed; nobody can stand him for 5 minutes.[/QUOTE]

    LOL.

    Answer my question.

    TX is just trolling.

  9. #209
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    [QUOTE=Jordy;4498441]
    TX is just trolling.[/QUOTE]

    I never troll.

  10. #210
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4498427]$10 says Jordy can get into some kind of pissing match with Mother Theresa and the Pope at the same time.[/QUOTE]

    Irony doesn't even begin to cover this post. :rolleyes:

  11. #211
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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;4497972]This topic has been beaten to death.

    Yes, the kid has improved over his first 3 seasons. However, those improvements are so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly

    Sanchez still has some potential, but we've seen way more bad than good from him thusfar. I could give a sh*t less if you throw for 26 TD's if you're also going to turn the ball over 26 times.

    During his first two seasons, Sanchez road on the coattails of a Top 3 defense, Top 5 rushing attack, and arguably the best OL in the league. In year 3, we decided to cut him loose a little bit and give him an increased role in the offense and he proceeded to fall flat on his face. That's not hating, that's stating the facts.

    If Sanchez is always going to need a dominant rushing attack, a premier OL, and a top flight group of receivers just to perform at an acceptable level, then I don't know why the hell anyone is deluding themselves into believing that he's a franchise QB.

    Either he takes a big leap forward this year and becomes a more efficient QB, or he tries to revive his career somewhere else. We're not devoting 5+ years to this kid, nor should we.

  12. #212
    [QUOTE]Obviously, even the top OL will get beat once in awhile.

    Sanchez was running for his life in '09, but it got written off as the rookie's lack of experience.

    He looked tv cameras straight in the iris and took the blame for his teammates again and again.

    I expected dramatic OL improvement in '10 but it wasn't the case.

    This fab OL you speak of cost us the AFCC.

    Also, Brick is the most overrated, overpaid, snoozing LT in the league.

    But he's voted to the Pro Bowl consistently by the school bus Madden crowd that are suckers for a catchy name.

    The difference in '11 is that more people began to notice what myself, buzzsaw, and perhaps few others, saw happening all along.

    It just got so bad the flaws were impossible to conceal.[/QUOTE]

    If you saw a bad Jets OL in 2009 and 2010, I don't know what to tell you.

    Obviously we see the Jets offensive play of the past couple years differently, though we're watching the same games. But you're wrong ;)

    Seriously though, when I disagree with another fan about what we saw when watching the games, I'll give some credence to impartial observers who are charting Jets games and other teams' games without an agenda, who aren't going to let just one play in a big game determine their view of a player's performance over a full season. Do you agree that might be a useful tool?

    So to go back to Pro Football Focus's grades (which I don't claim are perfect):

    From 2008 to 2010:

    D'Brick (who you call overrated) and Woody were No. 3 and No. 1 at their positions: [url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/15/making-the-grade-offensive-tackles-2008-2010/[/url]

    Moore was No. 6 guard: [url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/16/making-the-grade-guards-2008-2010/[/url]

    And Mangold was, of course, No. 1 center: [url]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/17/making-the-grade-centers-2008-2010/[/url]

    [QUOTE]LOL. This thread is about Mark's improvement after 3 seasons, and you're comparing him to Eli who's entering his 9th year.

    And you accuse me of not judging everyone fairly ... go figure.[/QUOTE]

    You asked for an example of a team with a worse OL than Jets and a better passing game, I gave you one. I guess it's unfair to judge Sanchez, an NFL starting QB, against other NFL starting QBs.

    I'm not arguing Sanchez hasn't developed, I believe he has. I'd say he improved a lot from his rookie year to his second year, and very little from his second to third year - but in year 3 he had to deal with a decline in OL and WR play, so he deserves credit for not getting worse. And its possible he will improve even more, including his play under pressure - until recently Eli was terrible under pressure too, so these things can change.

    But we shouldn't blame Sanchez's struggles on an OL that was among the best in the league for his first two years and average in his third year.

  13. #213
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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;4497972]Yes, the kid has improved over his first 3 seasons. However, those improvements are so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION. [/QUOTE]

    That's where I stopped reading, maybe you don't remember Mark's rookie season when compared to last season ala only his 3rd year in the league. but...

    During Mark's rookie season he only had a QB rating of 63.0. During his 3rd season he put up a QB rating of 78.2. That's a difference of 15.2 in QB ratings over a 3 year period.

    During his rookie season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. The difference? In 2009 Sanchez had games of 2, 3, 3, 4 and 5 INT games. During his 3rd Season Sanchez had games of 2, 2, 2, 2 and 3 INT games.

    During his rookie season Sanchez threw 1 INT per every 18.2 drop backs. During his 3rd year, Sanchez threw an INT per every every 30.1 drop backs.

    During his rookie season Sanchez put up 12 TD's with 20 INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez put up 26 TD's with 18 INT's. A difference of 14+ TD's and -2 INT's.

    During his rookie season Sanchez only had a completion percentage of 53.8%. During his 3rd season Sanchez improved upon his accuracy with a 56.7 completion percentage. 2.9% doesn't seem like a lot, but add a 2.9% to Mark's completion percentage of last season and we're looking at a 59.6%. But since Mark's accuracy/completion percentage has improved each of the three years he's been in the league, that 59.6% would actually be even higher.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up two games of multiple TD's (2 & 2). As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 9 games of multiple TD's of 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 and 4 TD performances.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 2 games of 250+ yards along with 0 games of 300+ yards. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 5 games of 250+ yards along with another 3 games of 300+ yards (306, 335 and 369).

    As a rookie Sanchez only 3 games of 80+ QB ratings, 1 game of 90+ and 3 games of 100+ QB ratings. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 4 games of 80+ QB ratings, 4 games of 90+ QB ratings and 2 games of 100+ QB ratings.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 3 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (63.2%, 63.6% and 76.5%). As a 3rd those improvements are so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION.year player Sanchez put up 7 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (60.0%, 61.4%, 61.5%, 61.9%, 65.5%, 70.8% and 71.4%). Big time differences/

    As a rookie Sanchez had 5 games of 50% or below (34.5%, 38.1%, 46.7%, 50.0% & 50.0%). As a 3rd year player Sanchez only had 2 games of 50% or below (31.4% and 48.6%).

    By saying those improvements are "so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION" just goes to show how much you know (or lack thereof) in regards to the quarterback position.

  14. #214
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    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4498504]That's where I stopped reading, maybe you don't remember Mark's rookie season when compared to last season ala only his 3rd year in the league. but...

    During Mark's rookie season he only had a QB rating of 63.0. During his 3rd season he put up a QB rating of 78.2. That's a difference of 15.2 in QB ratings over a 3 year period.

    During his rookie season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. The difference? In 2009 Sanchez had games of 2, 3, 3, 4 and 5 INT games. During his 3rd Season Sanchez had games of 2, 2, 2, 2 and 3 INT games.

    During his rookie season Sanchez threw 1 INT per every 18.2 drop backs. During his 3rd year, Sanchez threw an INT per every every 30.1 drop backs.

    During his rookie season Sanchez put up 12 TD's with 20 INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez put up 26 TD's with 18 INT's. A difference of 14+ TD's and -2 INT's.

    During his rookie season Sanchez only had a completion percentage of 53.8%. During his 3rd season Sanchez improved upon his accuracy with a 56.7 completion percentage. 2.9% doesn't seem like a lot, but add a 2.9% to Mark's completion percentage of last season and we're looking at a 59.6%. But since Mark's accuracy/completion percentage has improved each of the three years he's been in the league, that 59.6% would actually be even higher.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up two games of multiple TD's (2 & 2). As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 9 games of multiple TD's of 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 and 4 TD performances.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 2 games of 250+ yards along with 0 games of 300+ yards. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 5 games of 250+ yards along with another 3 games of 300+ yards (306, 335 and 369).

    As a rookie Sanchez only 3 games of 80+ QB ratings, 1 game of 90+ and 3 games of 100+ QB ratings. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 4 games of 80+ QB ratings, 4 games of 90+ QB ratings and 2 games of 100+ QB ratings.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 3 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (63.2%, 63.6% and 76.5%). As a 3rd those improvements are so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION.year player Sanchez put up 7 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (60.0%, 61.4%, 61.5%, 61.9%, 65.5%, 70.8% and 71.4%). Big time differences/

    As a rookie Sanchez had 5 games of 50% or below (34.5%, 38.1%, 46.7%, 50.0% & 50.0%). As a 3rd year player Sanchez only had 2 games of 50% or below (31.4% and 48.6%).

    By saying those improvements are "so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION" just goes to show how much you know (or lack thereof) in regards to the quarterback position.[/QUOTE]

    Can you please use your own two eyes for once to form an opinion instead of throwing a bunch of bullsh*t stats against the wall?

  15. #215
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4498504]That's where I stopped reading, maybe you don't remember Mark's rookie season when compared to last season ala only his 3rd year in the league. but...

    During Mark's rookie season he only had a QB rating of 63.0. During his 3rd season he put up a QB rating of 78.2. That's a difference of 15.2 in QB ratings over a 3 year period.

    During his rookie season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. The difference? In 2009 Sanchez had games of 2, 3, 3, 4 and 5 INT games. During his 3rd Season Sanchez had games of 2, 2, 2, 2 and 3 INT games.

    During his rookie season Sanchez threw 1 INT per every 18.2 drop backs. During his 3rd year, Sanchez threw an INT per every every 30.1 drop backs.

    During his rookie season Sanchez put up 12 TD's with 20 INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez put up 26 TD's with 18 INT's. A difference of 14+ TD's and -2 INT's.

    During his rookie season Sanchez only had a completion percentage of 53.8%. During his 3rd season Sanchez improved upon his accuracy with a 56.7 completion percentage. 2.9% doesn't seem like a lot, but add a 2.9% to Mark's completion percentage of last season and we're looking at a 59.6%. But since Mark's accuracy/completion percentage has improved each of the three years he's been in the league, that 59.6% would actually be even higher.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up two games of multiple TD's (2 & 2). As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 9 games of multiple TD's of 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 and 4 TD performances.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 2 games of 250+ yards along with 0 games of 300+ yards. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 5 games of 250+ yards along with another 3 games of 300+ yards (306, 335 and 369).

    As a rookie Sanchez only 3 games of 80+ QB ratings, 1 game of 90+ and 3 games of 100+ QB ratings. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 4 games of 80+ QB ratings, 4 games of 90+ QB ratings and 2 games of 100+ QB ratings.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 3 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (63.2%, 63.6% and 76.5%). As a 3rd those improvements are so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION.year player Sanchez put up 7 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (60.0%, 61.4%, 61.5%, 61.9%, 65.5%, 70.8% and 71.4%). Big time differences/

    As a rookie Sanchez had 5 games of 50% or below (34.5%, 38.1%, 46.7%, 50.0% & 50.0%). As a 3rd year player Sanchez only had 2 games of 50% or below (31.4% and 48.6%).

    By saying those improvements are "so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION" just goes to show how much you know (or lack thereof) in regards to the quarterback position.[/QUOTE]

    He was awful as a rookie. We get it. So he's improved from awful to slightly below average.

  16. #216
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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4498514]Can you please use your own two eyes for once to form an opinion instead of throwing a bunch of bullsh*t stats against the wall?[/QUOTE]

    :clapper::clapper::clapper:

  17. #217
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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4498514]Can you please use your own two eyes for once to form an opinion instead of throwing a bunch of bullsh*t stats against the wall?[/QUOTE]

    +1,000,000

    And it's not just the stats, it's the 5,000 word posts. Virtually unreadable.

    Not to mention, that's the THIRD time he's posted that same response.

    Ugh!

  18. #218
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    [QUOTE=jpoppy7;4498480]If you saw a bad Jets OL in 2009 and 2010, I don't know what to tell you.

    Obviously we see the Jets offensive play of the past couple years differently, though we're watching the same games. But you're wrong ;)[/QUOTE]

    I was here last season on the JI weekly game thread watching the same games "alongside" fellow Jets fans.

    There were glaring missed blocks by the OL that others here failed to see.

    There were countless 3 & Outs caused by OL flags, sacks, hurries, and perfectly thrown dropped balls.

    Many fans not only blamed Sanchez, but threads appeared calling for his benching. WTF were they looking at for 4 QTRs?

    We were watching the same broadcast!

    Point is, I know what I see and I trust my own eyes. Thanks anyway.

    [QUOTE]But we shouldn't blame Sanchez's struggles on an OL that was among the best in the league for his first two years and average in his third year.[/QUOTE]

    Among the best - meaning top 49%?

    Sanchez took the Jets to the AFCC his first two years. Is that what you mean by "struggles"?

    And if the OL was only "average" in '11 as you admit, why are you blaming Sanchez for average 8-8 results?

    Sorry bro, it's you that isn't seeing clearly.:yes:


    PS - Oh, I get it. You were expecting 3rd-year Sanchez to perform like an 8th-year Eli and overcompensate for the shabby OL.
    Last edited by jetrider; 06-22-2012 at 04:04 PM.

  19. #219
    [QUOTE=Jordy;4498439]I know you've been wrapped up with Stokes for 3 days straight but you ARE following this conversation right and not just jumping in?[/QUOTE]

    have followed the last part of it. The other guy posted "Oline stats" from NFL.com that ranked the lines based on total sacks given up and you took issue with that.

    I was just throwing in the fact that total sacks was misleading anyways and explained why :)

  20. #220
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    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4498504]That's where I stopped reading, maybe you don't remember Mark's rookie season when compared to last season ala only his 3rd year in the league. but...

    During Mark's rookie season he only had a QB rating of 63.0. During his 3rd season he put up a QB rating of 78.2. That's a difference of 15.2 in QB ratings over a 3 year period.

    During his rookie season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez had 5 games in which he threw multiple INT's. The difference? In 2009 Sanchez had games of 2, 3, 3, 4 and 5 INT games. During his 3rd Season Sanchez had games of 2, 2, 2, 2 and 3 INT games.

    During his rookie season Sanchez threw 1 INT per every 18.2 drop backs. During his 3rd year, Sanchez threw an INT per every every 30.1 drop backs.

    During his rookie season Sanchez put up 12 TD's with 20 INT's. During his 3rd season Sanchez put up 26 TD's with 18 INT's. A difference of 14+ TD's and -2 INT's.

    During his rookie season Sanchez only had a completion percentage of 53.8%. During his 3rd season Sanchez improved upon his accuracy with a 56.7 completion percentage. 2.9% doesn't seem like a lot, but add a 2.9% to Mark's completion percentage of last season and we're looking at a 59.6%. But since Mark's accuracy/completion percentage has improved each of the three years he's been in the league, that 59.6% would actually be even higher.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up two games of multiple TD's (2 & 2). As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 9 games of multiple TD's of 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 and 4 TD performances.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 2 games of 250+ yards along with 0 games of 300+ yards. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 5 games of 250+ yards along with another 3 games of 300+ yards (306, 335 and 369).

    As a rookie Sanchez only 3 games of 80+ QB ratings, 1 game of 90+ and 3 games of 100+ QB ratings. As a 3rd year player Sanchez put up 4 games of 80+ QB ratings, 4 games of 90+ QB ratings and 2 games of 100+ QB ratings.

    As a rookie Sanchez only put up 3 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (63.2%, 63.6% and 76.5%). As a 3rd those improvements are so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION.year player Sanchez put up 7 games of 60% completion percentages or higher (60.0%, 61.4%, 61.5%, 61.9%, 65.5%, 70.8% and 71.4%). Big time differences/

    As a rookie Sanchez had 5 games of 50% or below (34.5%, 38.1%, 46.7%, 50.0% & 50.0%). As a 3rd year player Sanchez only had 2 games of 50% or below (31.4% and 48.6%).

    By saying those improvements are "so miniscule and minor that it practically constitutes REGRESSION" just goes to show how much you know (or lack thereof) in regards to the quarterback position.[/QUOTE]

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST!!!

    Its a joke people who try to post nonsense against Sanchez by using stats now say stats don't tell the story!!!!:eek:

    They say use your "eyes" regardless what the stats say.

    When you answer them with the poor play of the Jets OL line, that the WR corp was average at best, and that Sanchez started only 16 games in college they resort to stats to say he isn't that good....:rolleyes:

    Yea, all I see is that there are a series of posters out here who do not want to look at many key stats concerning Sanchez because it doesn't fit their Anti-Sanchez agenda.

    Many posters would much rather continue to insult each other and relie upon their unsupported statements as unrefutable facts rather than examine the totality of the situation .

    Indeed some of you if you recall were still arguing the value of Adrian Clarke and how he was a good on the OL!! A Joke.....

    Good Grief.
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 06-22-2012 at 04:08 PM.

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