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Thread: Sanchez, as a quarterback, has improved each of his first three seasons.

  1. #1
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    Sanchez, as a quarterback, has improved each of his first three seasons.

    2009: 196/364, 2,444 yards, 53.8%, 12 TD's/20 INT's, QB rating of 63.0.

    2010: 278/507, 3,291 yards, 54.8%, 17 TD's/13 INT's, QB rating of 75.3.

    2011: 308/543, 3,474 yards, 56.7%, 26 TD's/18 INT's, QB rating of 78.2.

    Other than throwing one too many INT's last season, Sanchez has improved his yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio and QB rating during each of his first 3 seasons. That has to mean something positive, right? To me (over the years) it's been steps in the right direction.

    Sanchez may have set a career high in turnovers last season (18 INT's and 4 fumbles lost), but look at the amount of INT's thrown last season when compared to his rookie season. There's only a difference of two. What I look at when trying to find improvement, are the amount of drop backs. During his rookie season of 2009, Sanchez threw 20 INT's during only 364 pass attempts. That's an average of 1 INT per every 18.2 drop backs. Last season, Sanchez threw 18 INT's during 543 drop backs. That's an average of 1 INT per every 30.1 drop backs. Big difference when comparing how turnover prone Sanchez was as a rookie when compared to his 3rd season last year.

    Sanchez has improved upon his overall yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio and QB rating during each of his first 3 seasons in the league, despite the fact that he's worked with three different sets of WR's during each of his first 3 years as a developing quarterback.

    Cotchery, Clowney, Stuckey and Brad Smith were the 4 WR's heading into week 1 of our 2009 season against the Texans.

    Edwards, Holmes, Cotchery and Brad Smith were our 4 WR's heading into the 2010 season.

    Holmes, Burress, Mason and Kerley were his 4 WR's heading into last season.

    He's still managed to make progress without completely falling flat on his face. This year it looks like we'll be heading into the season with Holmes, Hill, Kerley and Turner/Chaz as our 4 WR options. I'm confident that Sanchez will continue to improve for the 4th consecutive season.

    Two of his biggest flaws have been his turnovers and his accuracy/completion percentage. Turnovers should continue to improve as he matures, but he's posted completion percentages of 53.8%, 54.8% and 56.7% during his first 3 seasons. Last year we seen a 1.9 increase in completion percentage. If Sanchez continues to improve for the 4th consecutive season in regards to his accuracy/completion percentage? He'll be right around 60% this up coming season. If not a little higher.

    Last but not least, I'm not willing to give up on a kid who's improved each of his first three seasons in regards to yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio as well as overall QB ratings. Even Eli Manning struggled early on, posting completion percentages of 48.2%, 52.8%, 57.7% and 56.1% during his first 4 years. But looks what's happened in regards to his career, he's became elite. Has posted completion percentages of 60+ during 4 consecutive seasons. During Eli's 3rd season? 301/522, 3,244 yards, 57.7%, 24 TD's/18 INT's, QB rating of 77.0. That's identical to Mark's 3rd year ala 308/543, 3,474 yards, 56.7%, 26 TD's/18 INT's, QB rating of 78.2. With Sanchez having the slight edge in comparison. Both QB's also went 8-8 during their 3rd seasons in the league.

    Most of our fan base (myself included) expected a bonafide breakout season out of Sanchez heading into last season. They say most QB's begin to come into their own during their 3rd NFL season as a starter. The difference with Sanchez? He was still a raw 3rd year starter. Only had one season of college starting experience during his days with USC. I guess we may overlooked the fact that Sanchez was going from Edwards, Holmes and Cotchery to Holmes, Burress and Mason. Big drop off in talent and overall ability, no?

    The moral of this thread, is that our quarterback (who's still developing) has improved upon each of his first three seasons in some of the most important/pivotal statistical categories known to quarterbacking, regardless of the offensive talent that's surrounded him. Who's to say that Sanchez doesn't improve yet again for the 4th consecutive season? If he does, I think we've found our quarterback to continue building our franchise around. It's been nice being able to draft guys such as Kyle Wilson, Joe McKnight, Vlad, John Conner, Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Jeremy Kerley, Quinton Coples, Stephen Hill and Demario Davis without having to worry about which QB to trade up for.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 06-21-2012 at 09:12 AM.

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    No need for all that ink. Cut down on the turnovers and he will be fine.

  3. #3
    I don't think fans can argue his NUMBERS have improved each season -- they're more concerned about his decision-making, mechanics, etc. . . things they would have liked to see improvement on by now.

    Good point about the drop-backs -- it does help put the two seasons in perspective.

    Ultimately he's proven good enough to win with a supporting cast around him. Will he ever be "the man"? We can only hope, but seeing as there's no reason we shouldn't ALWAYS have a top-notch D/running game, we shouldn't need too much improvement from him for this to be a playoff squad with the potential to do damage . . .

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    Before this thread gets derailed/consumed with negativity, I will just leave this here:


    All 32 of Sanchez's Touchdowns Last Year:

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXdqZY0cayA&feature=g-hist[/url]

  5. #5
    Honest question Phil. Using your EYES, and trying to forget the stats for a minute (I know, a sacrilege for you but try anyway), does it LOOK like Mark has gotten better each of three years?


    Using the eyeball test, do you really come to the same conclusion?

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    Schotty's gone...argue all you want but we will see who was right and who was wrong soon enough. One thing is for sure. The offense will look much much different, so there's really no way to project the change from the first 3 years to this one. We'll just have to wait and see, but with change comes reason to hope.

  7. #7
    Schotty threw him to the fire more last season. He threw for more attempts, therefore he gained more yardage. But his ANY/A dropped from 5.4 to 5.1. His efficiency as a QB didn't improve at all.

    Feel free to talk about all the reasons for that, but he did not improve in any significant way besides increased bulk stats.

    In fact, he turned it over even more in his junior year than his sophomore year. Maybe an improvement from a 54.8 to a 56.7 comp% represents something significant.

    He's still at best around 18-20th in the league.
    Last edited by ASG0531; 06-21-2012 at 09:43 AM.

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    [QUOTE=GuidoYaztremski;4496998]Honest question Phil. Using your EYES, and trying to forget the stats for a minute (I know, a sacrilege for you but try anyway), does it LOOK like Mark has gotten better each of three years?


    Using the eyeball test, do you really come to the same conclusion?[/QUOTE]

    Yup.

    Don't ask numbnut question. I'm pretty sure that Sanchez has improved upon total yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, QB rating etc, etc ala each and every statistical category known to quarterbacking each of his first 3 seasons in the league by "failing to improve". I'm sure his stats on paper has improved each and every season despite his play on the field declining :rolleyes:

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=GuidoYaztremski;4496998]Honest question Phil. Using your EYES, and trying to forget the stats for a minute (I know, a sacrilege for you but try anyway), does it LOOK like Mark has gotten better each of three years?


    Using the eyeball test, do you really come to the same conclusion?[/QUOTE]

    If you're being objective, then that's the ONLY conclusion you can come to -- not because Sanchez is "awesome", but because he's improved from where he was.

    Let me flip the question -- using your eyeball test, how has he REGRESSED over the past three years?

  10. #10
    I'd say most would agree he got better from year 1 to 2. But the improvement from year 2 to 3 was quite modest. That's when you'd expect a big jump in performance for a young QB. Furthermore his big turnover numbers last year pretty much canceled out everything else. Fans expect to see growth in decision making as a QB matures and Sanchez didn't display that. And his accuracy, even though improved, is still quite sub-par.

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    [QUOTE=BRONX JET;4496988]No need for all that ink. Cut down on the turnovers and he will be fine.[/QUOTE]

    / thread.

    We don't need 50 TDs. We need less turnovers.

    But I will take 50/15. :D

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4497005]Schotty threw him to the fire more last season. He threw for more attempts, therefore he gained more yardage. But his ANY/A rate state dropped from 5.4 to 5.1. His efficiency as a QB didn't improve at all. Feel free to talk about all the reasons for that, but he did not improve in any significant way besides increased bulk stats. In fact, he turned it over even more in his junior year than his sophomore year. Unless an improvement from a 54.8 to a 56.7 comp% represents something significant.

    He's still at best 20th in the league.[/QUOTE]

    The definition of a troll post -- is it really that difficult to make a legitimate contribution?

    The fact that Sanchez was able to produce similar stats under more responsibility is the DEFINITION of improvement. Not as much improvement as Jets fans would like, but improvement nonetheless.

    You don't get to attribute his GOOD stats to more responsibility, but not recognize the difficulty level would rise as well. Unless your only purpose was to flame the thread . . .:rolleyes:

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=OCCH;4497013]If you're being objective, then that's the ONLY conclusion you can come to -- not because Sanchez is "awesome", but because he's improved from where he was.

    Let me flip the question -- using your eyeball test, how has he REGRESSED over the past three years?[/QUOTE]

    [U]With my eyes[/U], he looked better in his 2nd year than his rookie year, which is to be expected. I'm not sure he regressed in year 3, but I can honestly say saw no improvement, regardless of the stats that DWC15 states. To my eyes, his reads showed no improvement and the same for decision making. I also didn't see any improvement in his demeanor. He still sulks after a bad serious. Hangs his head walking off the field.

    Now I realize many here blame the OL for his lack of ability to run through his progressions, and we'll see this year if that was the problem. But I'm not sure if he's yet to grasp how to read a pro defense, and unless he gains that ability, he'll never be any better than average.

  14. #14
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    Meanwhile, over that same three year span, the offensive line, running game and receiving corps have regressed talentwise. Even if Sanchez had remained statistically the same over that time, it would have been considered improvement.

    Year 4 is huge for the kid. I'm anxious to see what he does. I'm confident he'll continue to improve, the question really is by how much.

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    [QUOTE=lageman4ever;4497017]I'd say most would agree he got better from year 1 to 2. But the improvement from year 2 to 3 was quite modest. That's when you'd expect a big jump in performance for a young QB. Furthermore his big turnover numbers last year pretty much canceled out everything else. Fans expect to see growth in decision making as a QB matures and Sanchez didn't display that. And his accuracy, even though improved, is still quite sub-par.[/QUOTE]

    You don't think the wost offensive line play we've seen since 2007 (not that bad, but worse than 08, 09 and 2010 had anything to do with that? Hunter blowing assignment after assignment after assignment, Turner going down for the season which meant having to start a 3rd string rookie who wasn't with us during the offseason in replace of Mangold and even Ferguson having a down year? What about the fact that we went from Holmes, Edwards and Cotchery to Holmes, an aging Burress who was useless in between the 20's and an aging Mason before getting cut etc, etc had anything to do with that? Stop thinking simple minded and look at the whole picture; he still improved.

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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4497037]Meanwhile, over that same three year span, the offensive line, running game and receiving corps have regressed talentwise. Even if Sanchez had remained statistically the same over that time, it would have been considered improvement.

    Year 4 is huge for the kid. I'm anxious to see what he does. I'm confident he'll continue to improve, the question really is by how much.[/QUOTE]

    Thank you.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=GuidoYaztremski;4497034]He still sulks after a bad serious. Hangs his head walking off the field.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh....... the........ irony.

    :rolleyes:



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  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=GuidoYaztremski;4497034][U]With my eyes[/U], he looked better in his 2nd year than his rookie year, which is to be expected. I'm not sure he regressed in year 3, but I can honestly say saw no improvement, regardless of the stats that DWC15 states. To my eyes, his reads showed no improvement and the same for decision making. I also didn't see any improvement in his demeanor. He still sulks after a bad serious. Hangs his head walking off the field.

    Now I realize many here blame the OL for his lack of ability to run through his progressions, and we'll see this year if that was the problem. But I'm not sure if he's yet to grasp how to read a pro defense, and unless he gains that ability, he'll never be any better than average.[/QUOTE]

    That is all well and good. I cannot change your perception of what your EYES told you while watching throughout the season but I will say this:

    The "EYES" argument is bull****. It basically means, "Throw out all evidence, facts, statistics and give me a conclusion based on what I want to see". People's eyes deceive them ALL THE TIME. Isn't that how magicians/illusionists survive in this world? It is their exact premise, "Throw out all your prior experience, knowledge, statistics and facts; just believe what you see with YOUR EYES!" Well then, I guess people really can levitate, disappear, transform and get sawed into two with no harm done.

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    i think the real problem is that sanchez looked pretty good in both playoff runs. and everyone just expected him to play as well as he did in the postseason, or better through the entire 2011 season, which he absolutely did not. i still think he played and looked a [B]little[/B] better in his 3rd vs 2nd regular season.

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    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496981]

    Two of his biggest flaws have been his turnovers and his accuracy/completion percentage.


    The moral of this thread, is that our quarterback (who's still developing) has improved upon each of his first three seasons in some of the most important/pivotal statistical categories known to quarterbacking,

    [/QUOTE]

    Final mini-camp stats: Mark Sanchez went 10 for 27 (37%) in 49 first-tm snaps.

    [url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829d79e3/article/mark-sanchez-struggles-with-accuracy-at-minicamp?module=HP11_headline_stack[/url]

    Sanchez was unable to complete 40% of his throws in shorts and t-shirts. What do you think will happen when he is in full pads and facing a pass rush?

    He is the most inaccurate starting QB in the NFL and he was ranked 2nd to last with 26 turnovers.

    The moral of the story is Sanchez is the exact same QB in his first NFL game as he is in his 53rd. No improvement whatsoever, and that was stated publically by the Jets FO as well.

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