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Thread: Sanchez, as a quarterback, has improved each of his first three seasons.

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=loluchka80;4497045]i think the real problem is that sanchez looked pretty good in both playoff runs. and everyone just expected him to play as well as he did in the postseason, or better through the entire 2011 season, which he absolutely did not. i still think he played and looked a [B]little[/B] better in his 3rd vs 2nd regular season.[/QUOTE]

    This I can absolutely agree with. I think the major takeaway from Mark's first 2 seasons was that he was a "gamer". His play rose in accordance with the importance of the game he was playing in.

    Perhaps part of his maturation process is being able to learn how to get himself up for games which are not as pressure filled as playoff games?

    Now I know what people will say; what about the last 3 games of last season?
    Well I have a couple of thoughts:

    The Jets were down 28-0 in a flash in the Philly game thanks to Santonio's fumble and pass right through his hands interception. There was no way we were coming back after that in Philly.

    The Giants game, the whole team failed. Besides the D, Sanchez was under pressure ALL DAY long, Schotty called a crazy game and even with that the score was still only 20 - 14 with over 5 minutes left in the 4th Q and we had the ball.

    The Dolphins game was Sanchez's worst game by far. He made a couple bad throws and had a couple bad bounces which led to the two Starks INT's. His receivers weren't getting open and he began pressing.

    It is important to also remember that during these final 3 games:
    1) There was a revolution going on in the locker room against their OC
    2) Sanchez couldn't trust his #1 or 2 WR due to Santonio quitting (not attending Sanchez's practice) and Plax hitting the "I just spent two years in prison" wall.
    3) Sanchez was hurting, BADLY. This is why he was so committed to increasing his muscle mass this offseason.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4497092]When he does well in mini and training camp, it's a fluke.

    When he does well in the playoffs, it's a fluke.

    When he does poorly, it's indicative of his true nature.

    I see how this works.

    The highlighted statement is just flaming.[/QUOTE]

    0515, you are missing the point.

    In 3 NFL seasons, Sanchez career completion percentage is only 55.3%.

    Completion percentage (along with turnovers) is his biggest issue.

    If you think he has improved in that area, then so be it.

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=John_0515;4497094]He needs some consistency in terms of personnel as well. We've had a revolving door at WR the last 3 years, and as much as people want to make excuses for the guy, Wayne Hunter needs to settle in at RT otherwise the results will be similar to last year.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

    If the line can protect Sanchez this season, the turnovers will decline significantly.

    All QB's are more susceptible to turnovers and a low completion percentage when they are getting the crap beat out of them on almost every play and can't trust that they will have the time to run the designed play.

  4. #44
    [QUOTE=John_0515;4497100]Is Sanchez exceptional in the playoffs? How many QBs have played the way he has in he playoffs?[/QUOTE]


    Clearly nobody.

  5. #45
    [QUOTE=Owen Reed;4497091]Sanchez is on a good trajectory in terms of growth as an NFL quarterback.

    Remarkably similar to that of Eli Manning, who is now considered "elite" by some.[/QUOTE]

    You can show alot of Qbs were on that trajectory in terms of growth in comparison to eli Manning first couple of years, yet they never became any where close to eli manning. Just because it eventually worked out for eli manning, doesn't means it will eventually work out for mark Sanchez or any other young Qb.

    Maybe Mark Sanchez is as good as he going to get. This is a big year for him as there are no more excuses why he hasn't developed as expected.

    He performs and he the Jets starter for the next couple years. He struggle and Jets will definitely have a new guy running this team in 2013.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4497090]You heard it here first, folks. Since Sanchez only completed 40% in shorts, he's bound to complete less than that during the season. We're doomed!

    Honestly, GFY dude. 10% of the time you're willing to contribute to actual football discussion. The other 90% is absolute trolling. "Most inaccurate starting QB in the league." Based on what? Don't even get me started on the complete fabrication on your "Jets FO even publicly acknowledged" bs.

    I don't care if the mods like you, you need to be banned. You derail or ruin half the threads on this board. You have worsened the experience for many Jets fans on this site. There's plenty of room for disagreement or being a devil's advocate (like some of the Pats fans that post here), but all you do is post crap that you don't even believe just to instigate everyone. Get a friggin life. Or better yet, get a Fleshlight. At least that way you'll be more productive with your time.[/QUOTE]
    :stomp: Guess TX got got!

  7. #47
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496981]Sanchez, [B]as a quarterback[/B], has improved each of his first three seasons.[/QUOTE]

    As opposed to improving as a person?

    Golfer?

    Backgammon player? :confused:

  8. #48
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4496981]2009: 196/364, 2,444 yards, 53.8%, 12 TD's/20 INT's, QB rating of 63.0.

    2010: 278/507, 3,291 yards, 54.8%, 17 TD's/13 INT's, QB rating of 75.3.

    2011: 308/543, 3,474 yards, 56.7%, 26 TD's/18 INT's, QB rating of 78.2.

    Other than throwing one too many INT's last season, Sanchez has improved his yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio and QB rating during each of his first 3 seasons. That has to mean something positive, right? To me (over the years) it's been steps in the right direction.

    Sanchez may have set a career high in turnovers last season (18 INT's and 4 fumbles lost), but look at the amount of INT's thrown last season when compared to his rookie season. There's only a difference of two. What I look at when trying to find improvement, are the amount of drop backs. During his rookie season of 2009, Sanchez threw 20 INT's during only 364 pass attempts. That's an average of 1 INT per every 18.2 drop backs. Last season, Sanchez threw 18 INT's during 543 drop backs. That's an average of 1 INT per every 30.1 drop backs. Big difference when comparing how turnover prone Sanchez was as a rookie when compared to his 3rd season last year.

    Sanchez has improved upon his overall yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio and QB rating during each of his first 3 seasons in the league, despite the fact that he's worked with three different sets of WR's during each of his first 3 years as a developing quarterback.

    Cotchery, Clowney, Stuckey and Brad Smith were the 4 WR's heading into week 1 of our 2009 season against the Texans.

    Edwards, Holmes, Cotchery and Brad Smith were our 4 WR's heading into the 2010 season.

    Holmes, Burress, Mason and Kerley were his 4 WR's heading into last season.

    He's still managed to make progress without completely falling flat on his face. This year it looks like we'll be heading into the season with Holmes, Hill, Kerley and Turner/Chaz as our 4 WR options. I'm confident that Sanchez will continue to improve for the 4th consecutive season.

    Two of his biggest flaws have been his turnovers and his accuracy/completion percentage. Turnovers should continue to improve as he matures, but he's posted completion percentages of 53.8%, 54.8% and 56.7% during his first 3 seasons. Last year we seen a 1.9 increase in completion percentage. If Sanchez continues to improve for the 4th consecutive season in regards to his accuracy/completion percentage? He'll be right around 60% this up coming season. If not a little higher.

    Last but not least, I'm not willing to give up on a kid who's improved each of his first three seasons in regards to yardage, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio as well as overall QB ratings. Even Eli Manning struggled early on, posting completion percentages of 48.2%, 52.8%, 57.7% and 56.1% during his first 4 years. But looks what's happened in regards to his career, he's became elite. Has posted completion percentages of 60+ during 4 consecutive seasons. During Eli's 3rd season? 301/522, 3,244 yards, 57.7%, 24 TD's/18 INT's, QB rating of 77.0. That's identical to Mark's 3rd year ala 308/543, 3,474 yards, 56.7%, 26 TD's/18 INT's, QB rating of 78.2. With Sanchez having the slight edge in comparison. Both QB's also went 8-8 during their 3rd seasons in the league.

    Most of our fan base (myself included) expected a bonafide breakout season out of Sanchez heading into last season. They say most QB's begin to come into their own during their 3rd NFL season as a starter. The difference with Sanchez? He was still a raw 3rd year starter. Only had one season of college starting experience during his days with USC. I guess we may overlooked the fact that Sanchez was going from Edwards, Holmes and Cotchery to Holmes, Burress and Mason. Big drop off in talent and overall ability, no?

    The moral of this thread, is that our quarterback (who's still developing) has improved upon each of his first three seasons in some of the most important/pivotal statistical categories known to quarterbacking, regardless of the offensive talent that's surrounded him. Who's to say that Sanchez doesn't improve yet again for the 4th consecutive season? If he does, I think we've found our quarterback to continue building our franchise around. It's been nice being able to draft guys such as Kyle Wilson, Joe McKnight, Vlad, John Conner, Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Jeremy Kerley, Quinton Coples, Stephen Hill and Demario Davis without having to worry about which QB to trade up for.[/QUOTE]

    Good to have the old Statz™ back. This guy? He's elite. Here in '12.

    I think you forgot t mention the guys on the practice squad.

  9. #49
    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4497109]You can show alot of Qbs were on that trajectory in terms of growth in comparison to eli Manning first couple of years, yet they never became any where close to eli manning. Just because it eventually worked out for eli manning, doesn't means it will eventually work out for mark Sanchez or any other young Qb.

    Maybe Mark Sanchez is as good as he going to get. This is a big year for him as there are no more excuses why he hasn't developed as expected.

    He performs and he the Jets starter for the next couple years. He struggle and Jets will definitely have a new guy running this team in 2013.[/QUOTE]

    All true.

    I'm just saying that it is silly to write the guy off after three seasons - three seasons in which he has shown improvement every year.

    Sure, he needs to continue to improve. But, to say he "sucks", or "he is what he is" after three seasons is preposterous. His career could take off from here, or go in the crapper.

    Just having Schotty gone, and (hopefully) having an OC who will design plays that play to Sanchez's strengths (Play-action, roll-outs, etc.) should increase his completion percentage by 5 points right off the bat. And, if the line can provide sufficient protection, the turnovers - particularly fumbles - will decline.

    I've seen enough good things from him to know he is a capable QB, but he does need to take the next step this season.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4497109]You can show alot of Qbs were on that trajectory in terms of growth in comparison to eli Manning first couple of years, yet they never became any where close to eli manning. Just because it eventually worked out for eli manning, doesn't means it will eventually work out for mark Sanchez or any other young Qb.

    Maybe Mark Sanchez is as good as he going to get. This is a big year for him as there are no more excuses why he hasn't developed as expected.

    He performs and he the Jets starter for the next couple years. He struggle and Jets will definitely have a new guy running this team in 2013.[/QUOTE]

    I watched Manning too and I would like to know what anybody saw in him the first 3.75 years that indicated he would be anything like he has been the last 2 years. I thought just like most of the Giant fans he was a bust. So why can't Sanchez be significantly better than he has? Ely has had much much better coordinators than MS has had over his first three years. Before Ely took over Kurt Warner looked bad in the same system too until they changed OC too. Mark Sanchez will get better if not here in another system. I would like to know any other QB in the NFL with his level of college experience and his level of success. Point is it's just too early to tell with this guy to give up on him.

  11. #51
    [QUOTE=wepnx;4497132]I watched Manning too and I would like to know what anybody saw in him the first 3.75 years that indicated he would be anything like he has been the [B]last 2 years[/B]. I thought just like most of the Giant fans he was a bust. So why can't Sanchez be significantly better than he has? Ely has had much much better coordinators than MS has had over his first three years. Before Ely took over Kurt Warner looked bad in the same system too until they changed OC too. Mark Sanchez will get better if not here in another system. I would like to know any other QB in the NFL with his level of college experience and his level of success. Point is it's just too early to tell with this guy to give up on him.[/QUOTE]

    Not to mention he threw 25 INTs last season (2010).

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=Owen Reed;4497128]All true.

    I'm just saying that it is silly to write the guy off after three seasons - three seasons in which he has shown improvement every year.

    Sure, he needs to continue to improve. But, to say he "sucks", or "he is what he is" after three seasons is preposterous. His career could take off from here, or go in the crapper.

    Just having Schotty gone, and (hopefully) having an OC who will design plays that play to Sanchez's strengths (Play-action, roll-outs, etc.) should increase his completion percentage by 5 points right off the bat. And, if the line can provide sufficient protection, the turnovers - particularly fumbles - will decline.

    I've seen enough good things from him to know he is a capable QB, but he does need to take the next step this season.[/QUOTE]

    NO doubt the book is not closed yet on Mark Sanchez. He can go either way. But time is running out for him and its now or never.

    The only thing I will disagree with you somewhat is How is Sparano going to improve his completion percentage five pcts off the bat. When The Jets are going to be throwing the football way more down the field than they did with Brian Shottenheimer . (short passing game) Those deep passes drop the qb completion percentage more than short passes.

    Now if you said M Sanchez average yard per pass is easily going to go up next year because of sparano. I would agree as the more deep passes you compete, that number goes up.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=Owen Reed;4497128]All true.

    I'm just saying that it is silly to write the guy off after three seasons - three seasons in which he has shown improvement every year.

    Sure, he needs to continue to improve. But, to say he "sucks", or "he is what he is" after three seasons is preposterous. His career could take off from here, or go in the crapper.

    Just having Schotty gone, and (hopefully) having an OC who will design plays that play to Sanchez's strengths (Play-action, roll-outs, etc.) should increase his completion percentage by 5 points right off the bat. And, if the line can provide sufficient protection, the turnovers - particularly fumbles - will decline.

    I've seen enough good things from him to know he is a capable QB, but he does need to take the next step this season.[/QUOTE]
    +1000

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=lageman4ever;4497017]I'd say most would agree he got better from year 1 to 2. [B]But the improvement from year 2 to 3 was quite modest. That's when you'd expect a big jump in performance for a young QB.[/B] Furthermore his big turnover numbers last year pretty much canceled out everything else. Fans expect to see growth in decision making as a QB matures and Sanchez didn't display that. And his accuracy, even though improved, is still quite sub-par.[/QUOTE]



    A young QB with a good history or college experience should show a marked improvement in year 3. A QB with only 16 games of college experience coming out as a Jr needs more time to develop. If the regime didn't go into drafting him without knowing it would take a longer for him to reach his potential then it was a ridiculously dumb pick to begin with.

  15. #55
    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4497141]NO doubt the book is not closed yet on Mark Sanchez. He can go either way. But time is running out for him and its now or never.

    The only thing I will disagree with you somewhat is How is Sparano going to improve his completion percentage five pcts off the bat. When The Jets are going to be throwing the football way more down the field than they did with Brian Shottenheimer . (short passing game) Those deep passes drop the qb completion percentage more than short passes.

    Now if you said M Sanchez average yard per pass is easily going to go up next year because of sparano. I would agree as the more deep passes you compete, that number goes up.[/QUOTE]

    By tossing the rock deep he will open up the field for the shorter throws. One of the big issues with Schotty's offense was the lack of deep shots down the field. Opposing D's were able to crowd the line and clog up the middle of the field. They were jumping the short passes because there was little fear of getting burnt deep. I think the down the field stuff will actually work to increase efficiency by keeping opposing D's honest.

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=Raider9175;4497141]NO doubt the book is not closed yet on Mark Sanchez. He can go either way. But time is running out for him and its now or never.

    The only thing I will disagree with you somewhat is How is Sparano going to improve his completion percentage five pcts off the bat. When The Jets are going to be throwing the football way more down the field than they did with Brian Shottenheimer . (short passing game) Those deep passes drop the qb completion percentage more than short passes.

    Now if you said M Sanchez average yard per pass is easily going to go up next year because of sparano. I would agree as the more deep passes you compete, that number goes up.[/QUOTE]

    I'm not overly familiar with Sparano's offense. The only time I ever watch the Dolphins is when they play the Jets.

    But, I have watched every play that Brian Schottenheimer has ever run as an offensive coordinator, and even though you may call it a "short passing game", plays were rarely designed to get players open quickly. Schotty never adjusted to the defense, rarely looked to take advantage of favorable match-ups, and as a result receivers rarely get the proper separation.

    Maybe you can blame it on the receivers, or on Sanchez if you want, but I've seen so many plays where the first and second looks were covered like blankets 3 or 4 seconds into the play. Or, the classic Schotty plan of sending three receivers into a 5-yard box and then asking the QB to hit one of them in between 5 defenders.

    Or...the even more famous Schotty strategy of - on third and six - having five receivers all run 5 yard curls.

    You can't make this **** up.

    Just having a mediocre, professional, offensive coordinator will improve Sanchez's completion percentage by 5 points.

    But, again, I haven't seen enough of Sparano to know if he meets those criteria.

  17. #57
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    Best Passer Rating in the History of the NFL Playoffs:

    1 Aaron Rodgers 105.5
    2 Bart Starr 104.8
    3 Drew Brees 103.9
    4 Kurt Warner 102.8
    5 Joe Montana 95.6
    [B]6 Mark Sanchez 94.3 [/B]
    7 Ken Anderson 93.5
    8 Joe Theismann 91.4
    9 Eli Manning 89.3
    10 Peyton Manning 88.4

    That's right folks. Ahead of the Mannings, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Ben Roethlisberger, Steve Young, and Johnny Unitas and just below Joe Montana and Bart Starr. Six games isn't a huge sample size, but it's not a tiny one either.

    Obviously this is a level of play he hasn't replicated in the regular season, but when you have doubt about Mark Sanchez just remember he plays his best when it counts the most.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=Owen Reed;4497091]Sanchez is on a good trajectory in terms of growth as an NFL quarterback.

    Remarkably similar to that of Eli Manning, who is now considered "elite" by some.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly why I used Eli Manning as an example when comparing Sanchez in regards to 'being on the right track as a developing quarterback'. Each of Mark's first 3 seasons were also better than Eli's first 3 NFL seasons. The difference? Eli experienced 3 years of starting experience with Ole Miss. Sanchez on the other hand? 1 season of starting experience with USC before being thrown into the fire in which we call the NFL.

    Eli's rookie season: 95/197, 48.2%, 1,043 yards, 6 TD's/9 INT's, 3 fumbles, QB rating of 55.4

    Eli Manning's 2nd year: 294/557, 52.8%, 3,762 yards, 24 TD's/17 INT's, 9 fumbles, QB rating of 75.9.

    Eli Manning's 3rd year: 301/522, 57.7%, 3,244 yards, 24 TD's/18 INT's, 9 fumbles, QB rating of 77.0.

    Once you factor in the postseason success that Sanchez enjoyed during his first two seasons in the league, I'd say that each of Mark's first 3 seasons in the league were a little better than Eli's first 3 seasons in the league. After years of developing, Eli Manning is now an elite QB. Top 5-7 without question. Eli didn't have his breakout year until his 5th season, which was the first year where he put up an 80+ QB rating. The following season he put up a 90+ QB rating.

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=Austin;4497165]Best Passer Rating in the History of the NFL Playoffs:

    1 Aaron Rodgers 105.5
    2 Bart Starr 104.8
    3 Drew Brees 103.9
    4 Kurt Warner 102.8
    5 Joe Montana 95.6
    [B]6 Mark Sanchez 94.3 [/B]
    7 Ken Anderson 93.5
    8 Joe Theismann 91.4
    9 Eli Manning 89.3
    10 Peyton Manning 88.4

    [/QUOTE]

    Of those 10 QB's you listed, who is the [B][U]only one[/U][/B] not to play in a Super Bowl?

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4497189]Of those 10 QB's you listed, who is the [B][U]only one[/U][/B] not to play in a Super Bowl?[/QUOTE]

    lol!

    what a fag...

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