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Thread: Even Rotoworld Knows....

  1. #21
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    Just a quick question. Do you all think that we'll lose Revis to another team as a future free agent, due to Revis himself being greedy in regards to his overall contract, or do you all feel he'll retire a Jet or at least play as a Jet into his mid 30's.

    I ask this because he's only 26 years of age, the greatest Jet that I've ever witnessed play the game of football, has been known as the best CB in today's NFL for 2-3 years now, and may go down as the greatest CB of all-time. I wouldn't be able to deal with seeing Revis with another team before he really starts to decline. Hopefully he retires a Jet.

  2. #22
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4499694]Just a quick question. Do you all think that we'll lose Revis to another team as a future free agent, due to Revis himself being greedy in regards to his overall contract, or do you all feel he'll retire a Jet or at least play as a Jet into his mid 30's.

    I ask this because he's only 26 years of age, the greatest Jet that I've ever witnessed play the game of football, has been known as the best CB in today's NFL for 2-3 years now, and may go down as the greatest CB of all-time. I wouldn't be able to deal with seeing Revis with another team before he really starts to decline. Hopefully he retires a Jet.[/QUOTE]

    Two different questions.

    Do I think he WILL end up on another team? No. The Jets seemed to have already set a precedent that they'll do ANYTHING to keep the guy.

    Do I care? Not really. I LOVE what we're doing with the DL -- the more pressure we get up front, the less a guy like Revis is a "necessity".

    Doesn't mean I want to get rid of him, but I definitely don't feel like dealing with the drama, and refuse to believe a CB will ever be the missing piece of a SB run . . .

  3. #23
    [QUOTE=OCCH;4499701]Two different questions.

    Do I think he WILL end up on another team? No. The Jets seemed to have already set a precedent that they'll do ANYTHING to keep the guy.

    Do I care? Not really. I LOVE what we're doing with the DL -- the more pressure we get up front, the less a guy like Revis is a "necessity".

    Doesn't mean I want to get rid of him, but I definitely don't feel like dealing with the drama, and refuse to believe a CB will ever be the missing piece of a SB run . . .[/QUOTE]

    Agree with this 100%. I believe Revis wants a lifetime contract however I don't think that can possibly exist since he has shown he wants to renegotiate every time he gets leverage.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=EM31;4499627]Yeah he was brilliant after f***ing it up the first two times with Revis.[/QUOTE]

    HE didn't F** anything up. Tannenbaum gave him great contracts each time.

    Revis F** it up by whining like a school girl about it not being enough.

  5. #25
    [QUOTE=EM31;4499652]The first time by insisting on a sixth year and then overpaying by $15 million for a contract that turned out only effective for two years anyway.

    The second time by caving in and agreeing to redo the first deal for which the Jets had already overpaid massively.

    Both times messing up the timing such that predictably the first thing Revis did when he got back into camp was to go get himself injured right away.

    Pathetic GM'ing from start to finish right there.[/QUOTE] I can not believe people believe Revis is scared of his contract, revis can hold out knowing the Jets will cave and be forced to pay him or trade him to a team that will pay him and at the end of the day all the second contract is a footnote in history. Mr Gilbert has schooled this man well

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=patman;4499693]It would hurt his value if he did it next year, not this year. Any team that signs him knows that the possibility that he will attempt to renegotiate before long.

    Tanny has always given in to him, he never had any reason to moan, this time tanny may not, no one knows how Revis will react. We do know that he will show up.[/QUOTE]


    Dude its all about who has leverage before Revis had the leverage now the Jets have it. That's how negotiations go its who has the leverage.

  7. #27
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    I completely disagree.

    [QUOTE=OCCH;4499701] I LOVE what we're doing with the DL -- the more pressure we get up front, the less a guy like Revis is a "necessity".[/QUOTE]

    Revis has developed into the greatest CB in today's NFL. Hands down, no questions asked. He's became known as the greatest Jets defensive back that's ever played the game, despite the fact that we've lacked a pass rush over the years (in regards to our front 7). You give a defense with an elite front 7 (in regards to pressuring the quarterback), especially with our defensive front, to go along with arguably the greatest coverage CB since Deion Sanders in Darrelle Revis? And that's a scary thought. You put Revis on a team such as the Giants, with a great 4 man pass rush? Forget about it. They'd completely destroy opposing offenses. You give Darrelle Revis and the Jets a consistent pass rush from our defensive front? And the sky becomes the limit for this Rex Ryan led Jets defense. Revis is the most important player on our defense, there's no question about it.

    [QUOTE=OCCH;4499701] refuse to believe a CB will ever be the missing piece of a SB run . . .[/QUOTE]

    I disagree once again. We're not talking about the 70's, 80's or even 90's anymore... We're in an NFL generation, where the emphasis in regards to the passing game is at an all-time high. There has never been a better time to have a shut down corner, than as of right now. Mike Haynes, Mel Blount, Night Train Lane and even Deion were all great shut down/lock down corners, but none of them played in an era (such as Revis) where the emphasis of elite quarterbacks and wide receivers were so highly involved.

    With QB's such as Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Tony Romo, Matthew Stafford, Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick etc, etc to go along with WR's such as Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Greg Jennings, Hakeem Nicks, Andre Johnson, an up and coming A.J Green, Mike Wallace, Dez Bryant, Percy Harvin, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson etc, etc and the overall importance of a shut down CB such as Darrelle Revis is as high as it's ever been. He's so important to the success of our defense (pass rush or not). Just a special player.

    Revis not only has the ability to completely shut down opposing #1 WR's, but he also eliminates quarterbacks #1 option at the same time, which not only hurts the quarterback's ability to move the ball with success, but also hurts the entire offense as a whole. Revis is a rare breed. You may refuse to believe a CB will ever become the missing piece of a teams SB run, but if you take Revis away from the Jets, we never make two consecutive trips to the AFC Championship game. The way he shut down Reggie Wayne in Indy was priceless. Better yet, even with a potentially much improved pass rush heading into our up coming season, you remove Darrelle Revis as our starting CB, and you'll see our chances of landing a super bowl appearance diminish by leaps and bounds.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 06-25-2012 at 12:09 AM.

  8. #28
    [QUOTE=Limolady;4499641]Ask the same people who think Holmes is a cancer & the Jets won't win the SB this season unless they re-sign Braylon and make him the team captain. (-;[/QUOTE]

    Holmes is a cancer ... And a no. 2 at best... Definitely not worth 50 mil. Doesn't mean Tanny messed up anything with Revis.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Dunnie;4499758]Holmes is a cancer ... And a no. 2 at best... Definitely not worth 50 mil. Doesn't mean Tanny messed up anything with Revis.[/QUOTE]

    You consider him a cancer? I consider him a SB winning MVP who played his best game on the biggest stage of his career. You claim Holmes as being nothing better than a #2 WR? Fine. To each his own. But, how about you post some facts and or claims backing up your opinion? If Holmes, in your eyes, is nothing more than a "#2 WR", I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have a problem listing/naming 22-25 #1 WR's in which have enjoyed as much success as Holmes and/or put up better production than Holmes has had over the years? I'll continue to wait, as I've waited for quite some time now. Lots of critics claim he's "nothing more" than a #2 WR "at best", but yet, none of these negative Holmes critics seem to know of 22-25 WR's in which have been more productive than Holmes has been over the years... It's very interesting.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 06-25-2012 at 12:38 AM.

  10. #30
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    If there is a such thing as a cancer in the lockerroom and to a team, holmes is definately considered one. When your teammates say it, its definately true. He whines about not getting the ball, refused to play with braylon edwards because he didnt want braylon getting the ball more than he did because he knew how good edwards was.

    Dunnie is right. Not worth the 50$ mil. He may be a number 1 receicer because is very talented but he is too much to worry about. The steelers knew it and they why they gave him away for a 5th round pick.

  11. #31
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    Lots of top tier/elite WR's are head cases. Lets not act like it's anything new. They all want the ball, 60% of them complain when they're not getting the ball thrown their way, WR's have always been known as flashy/diva's etc, etc. It's the nature of the beast/position. Lets not make Holmes out to be the only #1 WR who's acted this way over the years.

    Also, Holmes is a winner and expects to win. He simply hated the position our offense was in last season with Shotty Jr as his offensive coordinator. Holmes simply made it known, that he felt trapped under Shotty's system, had no freedom to hot route into a better route, and continued being forced to run routes into the heart of the opposing defense. Which was time and time against under Shotty Jr's watch. He couldn't take it any more, and as a winner who wants to win/expects better from his coaching staff; he lost his cool and pretty much snapped. He's a competitor. He hated losing, and honestly? I respect him for that. I don't like the fact that it seems as if he quit on the team, but I respect his will to win. And with Shotty Jr? We would have never had a top 10 offense. Never. And Holmes, as a WR... Couldn't take it one season longer.

    90% of this fan base quit on Shotty Jr after the 2007 season, especially after the 2008 season. Shotty Jr was made out to be the devil himself here on JetsInsider and even on other Jet message boards. The whole fan base couldn't stand Shotty Jr's offensive play calling, playbook, offensive scheme. But yet, these same fans who threw Shotty under the bus for many of years (both before, during and after the Holmes trade) have now became the same posters who've thrown Holmes under the bus for becoming sick and tired of playing under a Shotty Jr's offense and "quitting on his teammates and team". A bunch of little message board hypocrites. Some will say he's a "quitter" and "quit on his team" etc, etc but when in reality? He's a winner who didn't quit on his team; he quit on our offensive coordinator.

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4499778]Lots of top tier/elite WR's are head cases. Lets not act like it's anything new. They all want the ball, 60% of them complain when they're not getting the ball thrown their way, WR's have always been known as flashy/diva's etc, etc. It's the nature of the beast/position. Lets not make Holmes out to be the only #1 WR who's acted this way over the years.

    Also, Holmes is a winner and expects to win. He simply hated the position our offense was in last season with Shotty Jr as his offensive coordinator. Holmes simply made it known, that he felt trapped under Shotty's system, had no freedom to hot route into a better route, and continued being forced to run routes into the heart of the opposing defense. Which was time and time against under Shotty Jr's watch. He couldn't take it any more, and as a winner who wants to win/expects better from his coaching staff; he lost his cool and pretty much snapped. He's a competitor. He hated losing, and honestly? I respect him for that. I don't like the fact that it seems as if he quit on the team, but I respect his will to win. And with Shotty Jr? We would have never had a top 10 offense. Never. And Holmes, as a WR... Couldn't take it one season longer.

    90% of this fan base quit on Shotty Jr after the 2007 season, especially after the 2008 season. Shotty Jr was made out to be the devil himself here on JetsInsider and even on other Jet message boards. The whole fan base couldn't stand Shotty Jr's offensive play calling, playbook, offensive scheme. But yet, these same fans who threw Shotty under the bus for many of years (both before, during and after the Holmes trade) have now became the same posters who've thrown Holmes under the bus for becoming sick and tired of playing under a Shotty Jr's offense and "quitting on his teammates and team". A bunch of little message board hypocrites. Some will say he's a "quitter" and "quit on his team" etc, etc but when in reality? He's a winner who didn't quit on his team; he quit on our offensive coordinator.[/QUOTE]

    Bull****. Last I checked, the OC isn't suited up and out on the field fighting in the trenches to try and win a game.

    Holmes quit on his teammates, plain and simple. You can say that he did it because of Shotty, but again, he quit on the team.

  13. #33
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4499767]You consider him a cancer? I consider him a SB winning MVP who played his best game on the biggest stage of his career. You claim Holmes as being nothing better than a #2 WR? Fine. To each his own. But, how about you post some facts and or claims backing up your opinion? If Holmes, in your eyes, is nothing more than a "#2 WR", I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have a problem listing/naming 22-25 #1 WR's in which have enjoyed as much success as Holmes [COLOR="Red"][B]and/or put up better production than Holmes has had over the years? [/B][/COLOR]I'll continue to wait, as I've waited for quite some time now. Lots of critics claim he's "nothing more" than a #2 WR "at best", but yet, none of these negative Holmes critics seem to know of 22-25 WR's in which have been more productive than Holmes has been over the years... It's very interesting.[/QUOTE]


    Hmmm, production over the years, huh ?? You mean like averaging 56 catches a year and 872.5 yards per year?

    Yeah, certainly top 10 material there.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=JetsFanatic;4499597]I agree 100%. Revis has no argument this season, but a case can be made for next year.[/QUOTE]
    Agreed.Let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4499780]Hmmm, production over the years, huh ?? You mean like averaging 56 catches a year and 872.5 yards per year?

    Yeah, certainly top 10 material there.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, right, as if Holmes didn't put up 79 receptions for 1,248 receiving yards the year before coming to the Jets ala the first time he had a chance to really show his worth. And put up a very strong season for Pittsburgh.

    You can look at his 56 catches and 872.5 yards per season as a way of judging his ability all you like, because at the end of the night? I not only know, but also understand that only simple minded casual fans would post up numbers of Holmes, without taking into consideration the types of systems he's been forced to play under; as if he's not a true #1 WR option/threat.

    In 2006, the Pittsburgh Steelers were only ranked 16th in pass attempts during his rookie season. He still managed to put up 49 receptions for 824 yards despite playing opposite of a future HOF WR in Hines Ward who put up 74 receptions for 975 yards. Lets not act as if, back in 2006, his quarterback didn't have a career low in completion percentage, QB rating (75.4) and a career high with 23 INT's. Only threw 18 TD's as well. Heck, even Sanchez threw 26 TD's last season. Talk about a struggling quarterback, talk about a developing Roethlisberger during the 2006 season.

    Lets not act like, in 2007, the Pittsburgh Steelers never ranked 31st in pass attempts and 3rd in rushing attempts. Holmes STILL put up 52 receptions, 942 yards and 8 TD's inside of a rushing attack, run first committed offense. But yeah, lets not let the facts get in the way of his 52 receptions, 942 yards and 8 TD type of season, as if those numbers wouldn't have been through the roof within an offense that ranked the opposite ala 31st in rushing attempts and 3rd in passing attempts.

    In 2008, the Pittsburgh Steelers only ranked 20th in pass attempts and top 10 in rushing attempts. Holmes still put up 55 receptions, 821 yards and 5 TD's, despite the fact that he was receiving for a smash-mouth Pittsburgh offensive attack ala run first. Put Holmes with Roethlisberger on an offense in which ranked 7th, instead of 20th in pass attempts? And he easily puts up 80+ receptions for 1200+ yards back in 2008.

    2009 was the first and ONLY season where Holmes was able to show his full ability/talent and potential that he's always had (and still does have). In 2009 the Steelers actually ranked 18th in rushing attempts and 18th in passing attempts. More of a balanced approach in regards to the offensive end of the field. Holmes put up 79 receptions for 1,248 yards. Not bad for a wide receiver who was under an offense in which only ranked 18th in pass attempts.

    In 2010 Holmes went back to a run first offense ala a Jets offense with a struggling/developing QB in Sanchez (only a 2nd year player) while the Jets offense ranked 2nd in rushing attempts. Holmes still put up 52 receptions, 746 yards and 6 TD's, despite being forced to miss 4 games. If he would have played all 16 games? He was on pace for a 69 reception, 994 yard, 8 TD type of season, on an offense that A.) Had a raw 2nd year Sanchez (who many consider a "bust" and B.) an offense that ranked 2nd in rushing attempts.

    So yeah, let's keep up with the simple minded football judgement, while also using his "average numbers over the past 6 years" as a way of judging his WR talents, ability and potential. while disregarding the types of offensive situations that he's played in over the years ala run first teams, followed by two years of playing alongside a struggling/developing/raw Mark Sanchez.

    Yes, he's only averaged 56 receptions for 872.5 yards per season throughout the course of his career, but let's not let facts get in the way of his overall talents/production on the football field. Lets not act as if a WR such as Reggie Wayne wasn't blessed with not only an all-time great at the Quarterback position in Peyton Manning, but also played inside of an offensive scheme that's ranked 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 15th and 21st in pass attempts dating back to 2006. Yeah, right, I'm pretty sure it's fair to judge Wayne's numbers to Holmes numbers who's played on O's that's ranked 16th, 18th, 18th, 20th, 21st and 31st in pass attempts since being drafted into the league. Yeah, right, Reggie Wayne is some type of true number one wide out, while Holmes isn't; just based off of "numbers and production".

    They don't call me "stats" for nothing. I don't just post stats as a simple number, I look into the different types of situation when discussing stats. I don't just throw ****ty numbers at a wall and hope it sticks (such as Demosthenes9 just did). I actually look at the situations that a player was under while putting up his stats/production on a football field when judging a #1 WR. Holmes is without question, no doubt about it, a top 15-20 WR talent.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 06-25-2012 at 04:04 AM.

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4499785]Yeah, right, as if Holmes didn't put up 79 receptions for 1,248 receiving yards the year before coming to the Jets ala the first time he had a chance to really show his worth. And put up a very strong season for Pittsburgh.

    You can look at his 56 catches and 872.5 yards per season as a way of judging his ability all you like, because at the end of the night? I not only know, but also understand that only simple minded casual fans would post up numbers of Holmes, without taking into consideration the types of systems he's been forced to play under; as if he's not a true #1 WR option/threat.




    In 2006, the Pittsburgh Steelers were only ranked 16th in pass attempts during his rookie season. He still managed to put up 49 receptions for 824 yards despite playing opposite of a future HOF WR in Hines Ward who put up 74 receptions for 975 yards. Lets not act as if, back in 2006, his quarterback didn't have a career low in completion percentage, QB rating (75.4) and a career high with 23 INT's. Only threw 18 TD's as well. Heck, even Sanchez threw 26 TD's last season. Talk about a struggling quarterback, talk about a developing Roethlisberger during the 2006 season.


    Lets not act like, in 2007, the Pittsburgh Steelers never ranked 31st in pass attempts and 3rd in rushing attempts. Holmes STILL put up 52 receptions, 942 yards and 8 TD's inside of a rushing attack, run first committed offense. But yeah, lets not let the facts get in the way of his 52 receptions, 942 yards and 8 TD type of season, as if those numbers wouldn't have been through the roof within an offense that ranked the opposite ala 31st in rushing attempts and 3rd in passing attempts.

    In 2008, the Pittsburgh Steelers only ranked 20th in pass attempts and top 10 in rushing attempts. Holmes still put up 55 receptions, 821 yards and 5 TD's, despite the fact that he was receiving for a smash-mouth Pittsburgh offensive attack ala run first. Put Holmes with Roethlisberger on an offense in which ranked 7th, instead of 20th in pass attempts? And he easily puts up 80+ receptions for 1200+ yards back in 2008.

    2009 was the first and ONLY season where Holmes was able to show his full ability/talent and potential that he's always had (and still does have). In 2009 the Steelers actually ranked 18th in rushing attempts and 18th in passing attempts. More of a balanced approach in regards to the offensive end of the field. Holmes put up 79 receptions for 1,248 yards. Not bad for a wide receiver who was under an offense in which only ranked 18th in pass attempts.

    In 2010 Holmes went back to a run first offense ala a Jets offense with a struggling/developing QB in Sanchez (only a 2nd year player) while the Jets offense ranked 2nd in rushing attempts. Holmes still put up 52 receptions, 746 yards and 6 TD's, despite being forced to miss 4 games. If he would have played all 16 games? He was on pace for a 69 reception, 994 yard, 8 TD type of season, on an offense that A.) Had a raw 2nd year Sanchez (who many consider a "bust" and B.) an offense that ranked 2nd in rushing attempts.

    So yeah, let's keep up with the simple minded football judgement, while also using his "average numbers over the past 6 years" as a way of judging his WR talents, ability and potential. while disregarding the types of offensive situations that he's played in over the years ala run first teams, followed by two years of playing alongside a struggling/developing/raw Mark Sanchez.

    Yes, he's only averaged 56 receptions for 872.5 yards per season throughout the course of his career, but let's not let facts get in the way of his overall talents/production on the football field. Lets not act as if a WR such as Reggie Wayne wasn't blessed with not only an all-time great at the Quarterback position in Peyton Manning, but also played inside of an offensive scheme that's ranked 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 15th and 21st in pass attempts dating back to 2006. Yeah, right, I'm pretty sure it's fair to judge Wayne's numbers to Holmes numbers who's played on O's that's ranked 16th, 18th, 18th, 20th, 21st and 31st in pass attempts since being drafted into the league. Yeah, right, Reggie Wayne is some type of true number one wide out, while Holmes isn't; just based off of "numbers and production".

    They don't call me "stats" for nothing. I don't just post stats as a simple number, I look into the different types of situation when discussing stats. I don't just throw ****ty numbers at a wall and hope it sticks (such as Demosthenes9 just did). I actually look at the situations that a player was under while putting up his stats/production on a football field when judging a #1 WR. Holmes is without question, no doubt about it, a top 15-20 WR talent.[/QUOTE]



    Funny thing, if you didn't want to actually talk about Holmes production on the field, then you probably shouldn't have made this statement:

    Could have sworn that you were the one who talked about his PRODUCTION.

    Here, let me remind you:

    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4499767]...... I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have a problem listing/naming 22-25 #1 WR's in which have enjoyed as much success as Holmes and/or put[COLOR="Red"] up better production than Holmes has had over the years?[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]


    Have to say that it makes no sense to tout/highlight his production, only to turn around and try to explain why he didn't have good production :)



    You want to talk about low powered passing offense? In 2008, the Carolina Panthers were freaking last in the league in pass attempts. What did Steve Smith do >? He put up 1400+ yards. The Baltimore Ravens were 30th in the league in attempts, yet Derrick Mason put up 1037 yards. The Atlanta Falcons were 29th in the league in pass attempts, yet Roddy White put up 1382 yards.


    As a number of people have said, Santonio does pretty well when there are other receivers out there to take the heat off of him. The really good receivers don't need others out there. You can put them out as the only receiver running a route and they will get open and they will catch the ball.

    Santonio is basically a plug and play receiver. You want to say that he would put up more yards in a different offense ? I won't disagree. BUT, you can say the same thing about almost every freaking receiver in the NFL.

    But, just to continue having fun with how you look at numbers, last year, in 2011, Mark Sanchez ranked 15th in yards passing, 9th in attempts and 15th in completions.

    Where did Santonio rank ? 66th in receptions, 62nd in total yards, 65th in YPC, and 75th in yards per game.

    Just for comparison, Demaryius Thomas, with Tim Tebow passing the ball to him, ranked 46th in yards per game, 11th in yards per catch, 80th in total yards and he only played in 11 games.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=Demosthenes9;4499779]Bull****. Last I checked, the OC isn't suited up and out on the field fighting in the trenches to try and win a game.

    Holmes quit on his teammates, plain and simple. You can say that he did it because of Shotty, but again, he quit on the team.[/QUOTE]

    how the F would you know since you were a longtime diehard Bronco fan at that time and didn't become a longtime diehard Jet "fan" until your adored Pastor Timblow showed up on March 21

  18. #38
    [QUOTE=sg3;4499799]how the F would you know since you were a longtime diehard Bronco fan at that time and didn't become a longtime diehard Jet "fan" until your adored Pastor Timblow showed up on March 21[/QUOTE]

    He argues football facts with Statz, and nails it I must say, and you throw out your canned Tebow response. Priceless.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=MagroCrag;4499582]Antonio Cromartie's 2012 and 2013 scheduled payouts are greater than Revis'.[/QUOTE]





    ... more mouths to feed :cool: ...








    l_j_r

  20. #40
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    [url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a18698/article/darrelle-revis-savior-of-the-term-shutdown-corner?module=HP11_content_stream?campaign=Ext_Email_1st10_Daily_Ctl[/url]


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