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Thread: Sobering Review of Shonn Greene

  1. #41
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    Good to see that most agree with this analysis. Jet-hater or not, the guy was pretty accurate with his evaluation of Greene. So what if he only watched 3 games - that's the conclusion that most of us have come to on SG after watching 48. Good #2, average-at-best #1.

    Personal taste, but I would have much rather seen the Jets stick with Stanton and give up their #4 and a conditional 2013 for Jonathan Stewart instead of making the Tebow trade. Stewart, Greene and McKnight would have made for a versatile tandem with the first two guys epitomizing G & P.

  2. #42
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    If you look at the jets rbs last year, they averaged the following;

    Greene - 4.2
    Tomlinson - 3.7
    McKnight - 3.1

    That tells me that nobody could pick up yards behind that line. Its not like greene was averaging 4.2 and the guys behind him had 5.0 averages.

    I think the oline is more of an issue then greene.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4500992]If you look at the jets rbs last year, they averaged the following;

    Greene - 4.2
    Tomlinson - 3.7
    McKnight - 3.1

    That tells me that nobody could pick up yards behind that line. Its not like greene was averaging 4.2 and the guys behind him had 5.0 averages.

    I think the oline is more of an issue then greene.[/QUOTE]

    It could mean that. Or it could mean that LT was in his final NFL season and battling injuries all year, and that McKnight just isn't very good.

    Other than Hunter, it's the same OL that produced a top-5 rushing attack in 2010. I can't lay all that at the feet of piss-poor play from the RT.

    You would have a much better argument if you wanted to point to predictable play-calling, as it's hard to disagree with that when the word predictable was used so often in reference to the Jets offense.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4500992]If you look at the jets rbs last year, they averaged the following;

    Greene - 4.2
    Tomlinson - 3.7
    McKnight - 3.1

    That tells me that nobody could pick up yards behind that line. Its not like greene was averaging 4.2 and the guys behind him had 5.0 averages.

    I think the oline is more of an issue then greene.[/QUOTE]

    What it could mean is Jets have no Rb that's going to break some big runs. The more big runs you have the higher your average yard per carry going to be. Instead of keep investing draft picks in the same type of back, maybe they need to draft a different kind of back.

  5. #45
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    t.o.

    [QUOTE=millsan1;4500856]He is average. [/QUOTE]

    Yo - WTF is santonio doing in a blue jays hat in your sig? Where is that pic from and WTF is with all the jets sporting toronto gear?

    I get rex grew up here so he's a leaf fan (poor guy) but revis is wearing a leafs hat on rapid fire, now I see holmes looking like he's friggin joe carter - what is the world coming too? lol.

  6. #46
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    I've said it before, Greene is the definition of one dimensional.

    He's a solid inside runner, but that's it.

    He has next to no big play ability, he's totally useless as a receiver out of the backfield, and he can't pass protect to save his life.

    This team wants to run the ball as much as anyone in the league, but our entire backfield is one giant question mark. Greene is average at best and McKnight, Powell, and Ganaway are total unknowns.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4500925]I see what you are saying but the RB position has changed. This is a league where undrafted guys are Pro Bowlers. 3rd round is relatively high for a RB these days.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    Guys like Maurice Jones Drew and Matt Forte are 2nd round picks and Arian Foster was undrafted.

    A 3rd rounder isn't some expendable pick, you're hoping for a stud there. Let's be honest, after a promising rookie campaign Greene has been disapointing as a starter and it's doubtful he's brought back after his rookie contract is up.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=Untouchable;4501217]
    This team wants to run the ball as much as anyone in the league, but our entire backfield is one giant question mark. Greene is average at best and McKnight, Powell, and Ganaway are total unknowns.[/QUOTE]

    As far as the 2012 season is concerned, this is easily the biggest question mark, even moreso than Sanchez.

    It's almost baffling the Jets didn't bring in a veteran running back after LT left.

    I'm not sure we have a single RB on the roster who can pick up a blitz.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4500992]If you look at the jets rbs last year, they averaged the following;

    Greene - 4.2
    Tomlinson - 3.7
    McKnight - 3.1

    That tells me that nobody could pick up yards behind that line. Its not like greene was averaging 4.2 and the guys behind him had 5.0 averages.

    I think the oline is more of an issue then greene.[/QUOTE]

    Funny how when T-Rich departed so did our running game.

    The Jets OL is only elite when pattycake Fantasy bloggers embellish hard numbers with a magic brush and produce ridiculous rankings that are pure fantasy.

    Greene is a short-legged, low center-of-gravity lead ball.

    He's a straight-ahead runaway Maytag that goes until he hits something, then stops and the whistle blows.

    Rex wants "ground & pound" - where you crash and bash and bang and bruise the defense till they can't arm tackle anymore.

    We don't have a quick rabbit type that makes you miss like a young LaDainian that eats up the open field.

    We need that.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4500818]I've been reading Rotoworld for about 3 years now, and it has been very helpful not just for fantasy football but for actual football as well. Obviously, those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand. I've been following Silva for about 8-10 months now.

    He's an extremely bright guy and knows his football, but he comes off as a Jets basher to me too. His tweets usually have a subtle jab at the Jets or give them virtually no credit. Not that this is an isolated incident, but here's a convo I had with him on twitter:

    [U][I]Evan Silva ‏@evansilva[/I][/U]
    #Jets loading up on box safeties for 46 D. #Patriots quick-hit pass game designed perfectly to pick that apart. Long year coming in NYJ.

    [U][I]@OedipusRexRyan[/I][/U]
    @evansilva That's the way to beat the 46, but I haven't seen anything in past to suggest they run it vs NE. Typically only put 6 or 7 in box

    [U][I]Evan Silva ‏@evansilva[/I][/U]
    they drop 8 into coverage and get creamed on the ground. "adjustments" have worked terribly vs pats


    I didn't have enough characters/time to reply, but while the Pats did abuse the Jets with that in Week 5 on the kill clock drive to end the game, it was also the same strategy the Jets employed to annihilate the Pats in the playoffs the year before. Watching the Jets/Pats rivalry, it certainly is a cat and mouse game between Belichick & Ryan. In Week 5, the Pats caught the Jets in with their passing down personnel in the front seven (guys like Dixon and Westerman) and went no huddle and continuously ran the ball.

    What I wanted to reply to him was "That's exactly why they drafted guys like Wilkerson and Coples the past few years -- versatile guys that could play all three downs as opposed to specialists like DeVito, Pitoitua, Dixon, Westerman, etc." Now it's time for Ryan to respond to Belichick's moves from last year. I just found it kind of douchey for him to say "Long season for NYJ" just because in his opinion the Jets defense won't match up with the Pats offense. It's probably true, but pretty much every team struggles with the Pats offense, and I'm quite confident that the Jets defense will perform admirably in the other 14 games. The long season comment just rubbed me the wrong way.

    Anyway, ranting over...I do agree with his assessment of Shonn Greene. He has very little instincts as a runner. What boggles my mind, however, is that Greene's initial burst is nonexistent now. Perhaps it is due to him being the lead back and taking bumps and bruises, but I don't get it. In 2009, I thought he had an outstanding initial burst for a power back and some of his best runs were stretch plays to the outside. He seemed to turn the corner at will and his burst was much stronger than Jones's even thought Jones was better at pushing the pile and finding the right creases to run through.[/QUOTE]



    Yeah I wouldn't take his opinions too seriously, I think hes a Patriots fan, or acts like one. Anyways hes not a NFL scout or anything, hes just a writer. So I wouldn't care for his opinion anyways.

    Our defense will not be the same as last season, Rex did not call the plays on defense and they were more conservative. I saw a stat during the season how Brady had bad numbers when DBs were blitzed or something and the Jets went away from that and played conservative. When Rex was at least somewhat involved with the defense they shutdown Brady 3 out of 5 times they played. For whatever reason last season he didn't get involved, which was a mistake because hes a brilliant defensive coach. I think he learned his lesson since hes getting involved again and will take control of the defense. I expect to see a aggressive defense again.

  11. #51
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    pretty harsh criticism of greene, hunter and tanny. you realize that there is coaching and if the coaches are really good (and work as a team) they can turn marginal players into serviceable players and so on. schitty was a horrible offensive coach and callahan didn't want to be there. they're both gone. greene is really just above average as far as backs go. i wouldn't expect much more.

    [QUOTE=eaglenj;4500742]I have long defended Greene on the board here and feel he gets an unfair rap from fans and while I think this review is a bit over the top with the negativity, a lot of it does seem to explain some of green's weaknesses.

    This was posted on rotoworld by one of their NFL guys....

    [B]Jets running back Shonn Greene[/B]

    For Greene's game reviews, I made sure to pick heavy-workload affairs that might offer polar viewpoints. I chose Week 14 against Kansas City -- Greene's best box score of the season -- and Week 6 versus Miami -- a difficult matchup in which Greene struggled on 22 touches. As a cherry on top, I watched Greene's Week 3 game at Oakland because he caught a season-high seven passes.

    On the very first snap of the Chiefs game, Greene followed FB John Conner's lead block into a massive chunk of open grass. Greene rumbled 31 yards, although he left many more on the field by running squarely into CB Brandon Carr, and finally ILB Derrick Johnson, who pushed Greene out of bounds. This would easily go down as Greene's longest run in the three games I viewed.

    For a power back listed at 226, Greene only occasionally moves the pile on his own. He's far too often tackled directly at the line of scrimmage. Greene can be tough to bring down in space, but he rarely gets there, lacking any hint of lateral moves and possessing below-average short-area burst.

    No one would argue that the Jets' O-Line is as effective as it was in its heyday. But in the Kansas City matchup in particular, the front five generated solid movement in the run game. Greene left a ton of yardage on the field by failing to recognize cutback lanes or hit them with purpose when he did. He has remarkably slow feet for a running back, and Greene's poor vision is just as worrisome.

    Greene certainly lacks speed to get the corner. He must have creases up the gut to create solid gains.

    I charted every third-down snap in the Dolphins and Chiefs games. There were 24 of them. LaDainian Tomlinson operated as a single-set back on 21. Greene was the lone back twice. And then-rookie Bilal Powell took a carry on third-and-11 for the last one.

    Greene pass blocked on just three occasions in the two later-season contests -- late in the second quarter of the Chiefs game, again in the third quarter, and one time against Miami. Just once did Greene effectively handle a pass rusher. He took safety Reshad Jones out of a play in the Miami game.

    I admittedly entered these games viewing Greene as a pedestrian talent. He was even worse than I expected. Greene's positives are few. He does look the part at 5-foot-11, 220-plus and can be hard to tackle with a full head of steam. But because he sees the field so poorly and takes so long to hit top speed, I'd hesitate to even call Greene a back who "gets what's blocked." He gets less than that.

    The Jets under GM Mike Tannenbaum have done a putrid job of evaluating offensive talent within their own organization. Greene and swinging-gate right tackle Wayne Hunter are prime examples of what will likely prove franchise-dooming incompetency. Both players are slated for starting roles in 2012.[/QUOTE]

  12. #52
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    I think Greene is a decent runner, but is pretty useless in the passing game....

    That being said i do not know if i buy the out of shape theory, some of his best work has come in the playoffs at the end of seasons...

    6 playoff games....99 carries...502 yards...5.07 ypc.....3 TDS....84 YPG average

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4500768]Green can't catch the rock and has no feel for the recieving part of the game. He does not have the type of moves that makes defenders miss. I agree with the OP that he is an average talent. The ground and pound doesn't work well with pedestrian runners. I think the Jets made a big mistake not acquiring a more dynamic runner in the offseason. I am holding out hope that someone emerges in training camp that can split the reps with him.[/QUOTE]

    Ground and pound works fine with pedestrian runners. You never want to draft/sign a pricey rb. They are disposable like work horses, you run them till they break then throw them away. Running the ball requires an offense as a whole who is committed to that philosophy.

  14. #54
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    I've said this a bunch of times. Greene is a "closer" sort to speak. Thomas Jones was an every down back, albeit not an elite one. Greene has the ability to run between the tackles, and wear the defense down late in games where the defense is already tired. He's good there. A closing the game type of back.

    He hasn't shown he can be an every down back. We don't have that running back on the roster, unfortunately. McKnight is not that guy either, until proven otherwise.

    I don't know what they're going to do with Tebow, but he has the ability to make people miss and run towards daylight that Greene doesn't.

    Greene isn't a bad RB, he's just not an every down back. TJ was. LT was, albeit older and slower. Not Greene. Not McKnight, yet. From what we've seen, Sanchez (and Tebow in whatever role he plays) are going to carry the offense. Good, bad or ugly.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;4500746]I agree with most of this. I don't think Greene is a good every-down back, he doesn't have the vision for it.
    He's the type of guy you ideally want to get 10-15 carries on a good day when he can come in fresh late in the game and wear a defense out.

    Let's hope Joe McKnight can become a more complete back. The run game should really be seen as a 3-headed monster of Greene-Tebow-McKnight[/QUOTE]

    +1
    Greene should never have been the feature back. He is a short yardage grind it out back.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=jetsmetsrangers;4501421]I think Greene is a decent runner, but is pretty useless in the passing game....

    That being said i do not know if i buy the out of shape theory, some of his best work has come in the playoffs at the end of seasons...

    6 playoff games....99 carries...502 yards...5.07 ypc.....3 TDS....84 YPG average[/QUOTE]

    The argument for him being out of shape is that he shows up out of shape in camp and it takes him a bulk of the season to get into form.

    The thing about the playoff games is that he had fresh legs in those two years.

    If things work out well, this will be Greene's last season in NY.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Rexipus Rex;4501488]The argument for him being out of shape is that he shows up out of shape in camp and it takes him a bulk of the season to get into form.

    The thing about the playoff games is that he had fresh legs in those two years.

    If things work out well, this will be Greene's last season in NY.[/QUOTE]

    Agree. This seems to be the case with Greene. I've heard some reports that he doesn't work out hard in the off season. Also you ever notice how often he gets hurt and/or needs to sit out plays to recover...

    He's not terrible, but not the back I thought he would be so far.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=Dirtstar;4500767][B]this is from Evan Silva, notorious Jet-hating doosh.[/B]

    that being said, Greene has pfailed to deliver on the promise of his rookie season and has yet to prove that he's a reliable, legit starting RB.[/QUOTE]

    Maybe so, but he nailed it.

    Even the last part about Tanny's putrid evaluations of the offense.

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=hatnlvr;4501473]+1
    Greene should never have been the feature back. [B]He is a short yardage grind it out back[/B].[/QUOTE]

    But when it comes to the playoffs he has some of the longest TD runs in recent memory..

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=jetrider;4501249]Funny how when T-Rich departed so did our running game.

    The Jets OL is only elite when pattycake Fantasy bloggers embellish hard numbers with a magic brush and produce ridiculous rankings that are pure fantasy.

    Greene is a short-legged, low center-of-gravity lead ball.

    He's a straight-ahead runaway Maytag that goes until he hits something, then stops and the whistle blows.

    Rex wants "ground & pound" - where you crash and bash and bang and bruise the defense till they can't arm tackle anymore.

    We don't have a quick rabbit type that makes you miss like a young LaDainian that eats up the open field.

    We need that.[/QUOTE]

    And we also don't have the "where you crash and bash and bang and bruise the defense till they can't arm tackle anymore" guy either.

    Greene isn't that guy. They thought he was when they drafted him. But he's not that guy.

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