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Thread: Stuyvesant HS student caught cheating on standardized exam

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4501134]Under George Bush's NCLB[/QUOTE]

    Since you keep repeating it, I'll keep asking till you address it.

    So why do you continue to lay all blame for problems in our Education system on Bush, when (as shown) the Law was passed with 89-91% overwhelming bipartisan support, and was personally sponsored and supported by such men as Ted Kennedy?

    You like to claim anyone who dares question the Public Education System is a Corporate Shill who hates Unions and likes hurting kids (kids, it seems, you yourself have little love for given your ranting about how horrible they and their parents are...). But it's hard to take any such ranting seriously when it's clear got a political motive behind it.

    Perhaps, I might toss this out there, if teh Teachers Union was not so strictly a Democrat Funding Agent and recipient of pay-for-protection Democrat support, then Teachers would not find as much criticism from the political arena. Then again, that funding-and-quid-pro-quo is big part of what keeps a bad system in place, far more than any widely bipartisan NCLB legislation.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4501026]Its not the cheating that is unheard of, its the fact that it is NATIONAL NEWS. This is a kid we are talking about. He didnt murder anyone, its a test! The the politics of standardized tests CONSUMES our present school system. And from most of your responses that this is ok. It is fine that that the media plasters a 16 year old boy's face and possibly ruining his future over a test in school?!

    But we all know the real reason for it, its to try and break the country's strong unions.[/QUOTE]

    Yes the strong unions being payed for with our tax dollars Most of the money given to schools goes for wages, health benefits and retirement.
    Maybe have the unions people pay more for their benefits.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4500976]National news? All over network television? Lawyers? Newspapers? This is not going to follow him?

    Would you be concerned if this were your son?[/QUOTE]

    My son wouldn't cheat.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4501009]If there we weren't such a focus on standardized test scores, the need to cheat for some would be less desirable. It is criminal what the adults who have the power in education are doing to a future. Again, this is not for the kids, its all about proving that unions are bad and the worker should suffer. Teachers are on the front line. All about the budget, yet people dont realize that more money than they think is going towards standardized exams, and the politicians friends that create them, than actually helping children.[/QUOTE]

    It's society's fault he cheated? How about stepping up as a teacher and using this as a lesson to other students about the consequences of taking shortcuts, instead of feeding the victim mentality that has taken over our society? At least that is what would have happened in my High School.

  5. #45
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    "and will not be returning to Stuyvesant"

    And this is punishment?

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=Brooklyn Jet;4501145]See, kids have been cheating for, like, 100 years :D[/QUOTE]

    LMAO!

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Brooklyn Jet;4501147]My wifes a teacher. If I worked in her school, i would do what she has done in that situation. Confiscated the phone, left it on her desk in plain sight, gave the phone back after class, and let the principal know, in case a parent complained. Her principal and administrators back her up. Sounds like, no offense, you work in a pretty crappy school where the folks at the top dont back up their teachers nor want to take responsibility.[/QUOTE]

    Don't you know it is all George Bush's fault? All schools in the country are as backwards and screwed up as his NYC cesspool. It is a national epidemic I tells ya!!!! We just don't know nothing because we isn't smart skool teachers.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=copernicus;4500989]Worst time to be a student in America hands down. Bush, Obama, Bloomberg, Christie, the whole bunch are to blame.........[/QUOTE]
    I hear smoking lounges at rubber rooms are some of the best places to pick up stock tips.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=sackdance;4501424]I hear smoking lounges at rubber rooms are some of the best places to pick up stock tips.[/QUOTE]

    and post on JI...

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=sackdance;4501424]I hear smoking lounges at rubber rooms are some of the best places to pick up stock tips.[/QUOTE]

    Or find a real estate agent.

  11. #51
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    Making my first foray into teh Politiks Forum as I have thoroughly exhausted all of patience for teh phfailz.

    I like to think that I sit on both sides of the debate here. I am a former teacher and definitely know plenty of the conditions and stresses on teachers these days akin to what copernicus is describing. It is absolutely deplorable some of the things teachers, [B]most[/B] of whom, really, truly entered the profession to work with, and help children. The decisions that are made by school administrators and district or county wide supervisors who haven't set foot in a classroom in well over fifteen years with six- and seven-digit salaries make your head spin. Quick example: two school years ago I had the pleasure to work at an Alternative School (read: where students go when they get kicked out of their regular public school). Our middle school program taught students in grades 7th and 8th grades. We had a 6th grader assigned to our classes and he was given an unusually quick start date so that the county could "service his IEP." Well part of having an IEP is to ensure that students with disabilities receive a Free and Appropriate Public Education (better known as FAPE). Someone sitting in the central office thought it perfectly fit that a 6th grader sitting in 7th grade classes provided the student an appropriate education as per his IEP.

    With that said, copernicus, I hate to admit it, but you seem like the kind of whiny, contract-loving, woe-is-me kind. It could be that you are fairly new to the profession as I might have aligned more closely with your beliefs when I first started, but I learned over time to try to pigeon-hole everything that is wrong with the system to NCLB and Bush (and his cronies??? amidoingitrite?) is inaccurate and off base. I think as I'm sure you do, that NCLB was a giant waste of time and in all actuality pretty unrealistic, but as Mr. Sticks has pointed out, George wasn't the only feller to sign that there document. And as an aside, I don't know that I heard anyone describe 'corporal punishment' as you did as being part of the law. I agree whole-heatedly about how so many people seem so willing to pander to the students and/or parents, but that is more locally political than anything written in any legislation.

    I would also caution you as to how excited you become about how teacher evaluations will be compiled in the future. I think some of the union lovers are jumping in with two feet about how awful it is. I think that [B]if[/B] done properly, basing teacher evaluation on student performance is acceptable. Granted that is a big if but supposen a school you someday teach at awards merit pay. Assuming that you are motivated, dedicated professional, your students will likely succeed providing you a decent to good evaluation. Well then perhaps you just earned a little extra cake for your hard work.

    With that said I would also encourage the masses reading through all of this to not so quickly jump on the anti-union bandwagon. Especially when teacher evaluations are involved. In the interest of full disclosure, I did belong to the teachers' unions in the four years I taught. Generally speaking, I did not like the way that the unions represented the teachers. It usually consisted of an old, jaded former or even current teacher with a highly-inflated opinion of themselves whining about how teachers are underpaid. One union I belonged to, encouraged its members to attend the county council meeting in one of the 200 rain ponchos that the union had purchased to symbolize the unions request that the county tap into its "Rainy Day Fund" to fund teacher raises. Can anyone think of a better pictorial of the definition of asinine? I think teachers' unions and many unions in general do a piss-poor job of truly representing their membership. In summation, the only reason I was part of the union was the legal protection it offered when some jack-wagon middle schooler wanted to claim I touched him or her. This actually came into play for a buddy of mine [whom I coached football (why I can't bear the phfailstrip) with] who was arrested on erroneous charges while trying to HELP one of our players who might have had some severe emotional disturbances.

    I do think unions or some sort of representations of teachers' rights are important when discussing student-performance based evaluations. I've seen plenty of instances where EXCELLENT teachers are removed or placed on "plans of assistance" for completely baseless reasons. That all being without student-performance based evaluation. I'm not one of the ones standing in the street begging for raises, nor would I be. Maybe I'm naive but I think there's some merit in doing ones' job and being happy when rewarded. I would like raises just like the next guy but its important to be sensible and sensitive to the climate of the world around you.

    Sorry to go off so much but I felt I did have a valuable, bipartisan (I believe is the word I use in this forum) opinion on the issue(s). In summation, I suppose to provide some support to Mr. copernicus is to the rest of you out there:

    All elephants are gray. Not all things gray are elephants. Some teachers and their unions are horrid. Not all teachers or their unions are.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=Jasper17;4501631]Making my first foray into teh Politiks Forum as I have thoroughly exhausted all of patience for teh phfailz.

    I like to think that I sit on both sides of the debate here. I am a former teacher and definitely know plenty of the conditions and stresses on teachers these days akin to what copernicus is describing. It is absolutely deplorable some of the things teachers, [B]most[/B] of whom, really, truly entered the profession to work with, and help children. The decisions that are made by school administrators and district or county wide supervisors who haven't set foot in a classroom in well over fifteen years with six- and seven-digit salaries make your head spin. Quick example: two school years ago I had the pleasure to work at an Alternative School (read: where students go when they get kicked out of their regular public school). Our middle school program taught students in grades 7th and 8th grades. We had a 6th grader assigned to our classes and he was given an unusually quick start date so that the county could "service his IEP." Well part of having an IEP is to ensure that students with disabilities receive a Free and Appropriate Public Education (better known as FAPE). Someone sitting in the central office thought it perfectly fit that a 6th grader sitting in 7th grade classes provided the student an appropriate education as per his IEP.

    With that said, copernicus, I hate to admit it, but you seem like the kind of whiny, contract-loving, woe-is-me kind. It could be that you are fairly new to the profession as I might have aligned more closely with your beliefs when I first started, but I learned over time to try to pigeon-hole everything that is wrong with the system to NCLB and Bush (and his cronies??? amidoingitrite?) is inaccurate and off base. I think as I'm sure you do, that NCLB was a giant waste of time and in all actuality pretty unrealistic, but as Mr. Sticks has pointed out, George wasn't the only feller to sign that there document. And as an aside, I don't know that I heard anyone describe 'corporal punishment' as you did as being part of the law. I agree whole-heatedly about how so many people seem so willing to pander to the students and/or parents, but that is more locally political than anything written in any legislation.

    I would also caution you as to how excited you become about how teacher evaluations will be compiled in the future. I think some of the union lovers are jumping in with two feet about how awful it is. I think that [B]if[/B] done properly, basing teacher evaluation on student performance is acceptable. Granted that is a big if but supposen a school you someday teach at awards merit pay. Assuming that you are motivated, dedicated professional, your students will likely succeed providing you a decent to good evaluation. Well then perhaps you just earned a little extra cake for your hard work.

    With that said I would also encourage the masses reading through all of this to not so quickly jump on the anti-union bandwagon. Especially when teacher evaluations are involved. In the interest of full disclosure, I did belong to the teachers' unions in the four years I taught. Generally speaking, I did not like the way that the unions represented the teachers. It usually consisted of an old, jaded former or even current teacher with a highly-inflated opinion of themselves whining about how teachers are underpaid. One union I belonged to, encouraged its members to attend the county council meeting in one of the 200 rain ponchos that the union had purchased to symbolize the unions request that the county tap into its "Rainy Day Fund" to fund teacher raises. Can anyone think of a better pictorial of the definition of asinine? I think teachers' unions and many unions in general do a piss-poor job of truly representing their membership. In summation, the only reason I was part of the union was the legal protection it offered when some jack-wagon middle schooler wanted to claim I touched him or her. This actually came into play for a buddy of mine [whom I coached football (why I can't bear the phfailstrip) with] who was arrested on erroneous charges while trying to HELP one of our players who might have had some severe emotional disturbances.

    I do think unions or some sort of representations of teachers' rights are important when discussing student-performance based evaluations. I've seen plenty of instances where EXCELLENT teachers are removed or placed on "plans of assistance" for completely baseless reasons. That all being without student-performance based evaluation. I'm not one of the ones standing in the street begging for raises, nor would I be. Maybe I'm naive but I think there's some merit in doing ones' job and being happy when rewarded. I would like raises just like the next guy but its important to be sensible and sensitive to the climate of the world around you.

    Sorry to go off so much but I felt I did have a valuable, bipartisan (I believe is the word I use in this forum) opinion on the issue(s). In summation, I suppose to provide some support to Mr. copernicus is to the rest of you out there:

    All elephants are gray. Not all things gray are elephants. Some teachers and their unions are horrid. Not all teachers or their unions are.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think any of us are anti-union per-Se, But what they've become is abhorrent. I watched the Teamsters, which my dad and I belonged, price themselves out of markets. Example' organizing the office workers at the same benefits and pay as drivers. so you had copy clerks making what today would be about 50k a year with full medical and dental, along with pension for a NEW employee. My grandfather was a longshoreman they started, in the 70's guaranteed income, 20 grand a year for NOT working with full benefits. N.Y. teachers that lawfully can't be around children? no prob! we'll pay you anyway, F'N ridiculous!

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=Jasper17;4501631]Making my first foray into teh Politiks Forum as I have thoroughly exhausted all of patience for teh phfailz.

    I like to think that I sit on both sides of the debate here. I am a former teacher and definitely know plenty of the conditions and stresses on teachers these days akin to what copernicus is describing. It is absolutely deplorable some of the things teachers, [B]most[/B] of whom, really, truly entered the profession to work with, and help children. The decisions that are made by school administrators and district or county wide supervisors who haven't set foot in a classroom in well over fifteen years with six- and seven-digit salaries make your head spin. Quick example: two school years ago I had the pleasure to work at an Alternative School (read: where students go when they get kicked out of their regular public school). Our middle school program taught students in grades 7th and 8th grades. We had a 6th grader assigned to our classes and he was given an unusually quick start date so that the county could "service his IEP." Well part of having an IEP is to ensure that students with disabilities receive a Free and Appropriate Public Education (better known as FAPE). Someone sitting in the central office thought it perfectly fit that a 6th grader sitting in 7th grade classes provided the student an appropriate education as per his IEP.

    With that said, copernicus, I hate to admit it, but you seem like the kind of whiny, contract-loving, woe-is-me kind. It could be that you are fairly new to the profession as I might have aligned more closely with your beliefs when I first started, but I learned over time to try to pigeon-hole everything that is wrong with the system to NCLB and Bush (and his cronies??? amidoingitrite?) is inaccurate and off base. I think as I'm sure you do, that NCLB was a giant waste of time and in all actuality pretty unrealistic, but as Mr. Sticks has pointed out, George wasn't the only feller to sign that there document. And as an aside, I don't know that I heard anyone describe 'corporal punishment' as you did as being part of the law. I agree whole-heatedly about how so many people seem so willing to pander to the students and/or parents, but that is more locally political than anything written in any legislation.

    I would also caution you as to how excited you become about how teacher evaluations will be compiled in the future. I think some of the union lovers are jumping in with two feet about how awful it is. I think that [B]if[/B] done properly, basing teacher evaluation on student performance is acceptable. Granted that is a big if but supposen a school you someday teach at awards merit pay. Assuming that you are motivated, dedicated professional, your students will likely succeed providing you a decent to good evaluation. Well then perhaps you just earned a little extra cake for your hard work.

    With that said I would also encourage the masses reading through all of this to not so quickly jump on the anti-union bandwagon. Especially when teacher evaluations are involved. In the interest of full disclosure, I did belong to the teachers' unions in the four years I taught. Generally speaking, I did not like the way that the unions represented the teachers. It usually consisted of an old, jaded former or even current teacher with a highly-inflated opinion of themselves whining about how teachers are underpaid. One union I belonged to, encouraged its members to attend the county council meeting in one of the 200 rain ponchos that the union had purchased to symbolize the unions request that the county tap into its "Rainy Day Fund" to fund teacher raises. Can anyone think of a better pictorial of the definition of asinine? I think teachers' unions and many unions in general do a piss-poor job of truly representing their membership. In summation, the only reason I was part of the union was the legal protection it offered when some jack-wagon middle schooler wanted to claim I touched him or her. This actually came into play for a buddy of mine [whom I coached football (why I can't bear the phfailstrip) with] who was arrested on erroneous charges while trying to HELP one of our players who might have had some severe emotional disturbances.

    I do think unions or some sort of representations of teachers' rights are important when discussing student-performance based evaluations. I've seen plenty of instances where EXCELLENT teachers are removed or placed on "plans of assistance" for completely baseless reasons. That all being without student-performance based evaluation. I'm not one of the ones standing in the street begging for raises, nor would I be. Maybe I'm naive but I think there's some merit in doing ones' job and being happy when rewarded. I would like raises just like the next guy but its important to be sensible and sensitive to the climate of the world around you.

    Sorry to go off so much but I felt I did have a valuable, bipartisan (I believe is the word I use in this forum) opinion on the issue(s). In summation, I suppose to provide some support to Mr. copernicus is to the rest of you out there:

    All elephants are gray. Not all things gray are elephants. Some teachers and their unions are horrid. Not all teachers or their unions are.[/QUOTE]

    Very good post. Welcome, jasper. Hope you stick around a while.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=Jasper17;4501631]Making my first foray into teh Politiks Forum as I have thoroughly exhausted all of patience for teh phfailz.

    I like to think that I sit on both sides of the debate here. I am a former teacher and definitely know plenty of the conditions and stresses on teachers these days akin to what copernicus is describing. It is absolutely deplorable some of the things teachers, [B]most[/B] of whom, really, truly entered the profession to work with, and help children. The decisions that are made by school administrators and district or county wide supervisors who haven't set foot in a classroom in well over fifteen years with six- and seven-digit salaries make your head spin. Quick example: two school years ago I had the pleasure to work at an Alternative School (read: where students go when they get kicked out of their regular public school). Our middle school program taught students in grades 7th and 8th grades. We had a 6th grader assigned to our classes and he was given an unusually quick start date so that the county could "service his IEP." Well part of having an IEP is to ensure that students with disabilities receive a Free and Appropriate Public Education (better known as FAPE). Someone sitting in the central office thought it perfectly fit that a 6th grader sitting in 7th grade classes provided the student an appropriate education as per his IEP.

    With that said, copernicus, I hate to admit it, but you seem like the kind of whiny, contract-loving, woe-is-me kind. It could be that you are fairly new to the profession as I might have aligned more closely with your beliefs when I first started, but I learned over time to try to pigeon-hole everything that is wrong with the system to NCLB and Bush (and his cronies??? amidoingitrite?) is inaccurate and off base. I think as I'm sure you do, that NCLB was a giant waste of time and in all actuality pretty unrealistic, but as Mr. Sticks has pointed out, George wasn't the only feller to sign that there document. And as an aside, I don't know that I heard anyone describe 'corporal punishment' as you did as being part of the law. I agree whole-heatedly about how so many people seem so willing to pander to the students and/or parents, but that is more locally political than anything written in any legislation.

    I would also caution you as to how excited you become about how teacher evaluations will be compiled in the future. I think some of the union lovers are jumping in with two feet about how awful it is. I think that [B]if[/B] done properly, basing teacher evaluation on student performance is acceptable. Granted that is a big if but supposen a school you someday teach at awards merit pay. Assuming that you are motivated, dedicated professional, your students will likely succeed providing you a decent to good evaluation. Well then perhaps you just earned a little extra cake for your hard work.

    With that said I would also encourage the masses reading through all of this to not so quickly jump on the anti-union bandwagon. Especially when teacher evaluations are involved. In the interest of full disclosure, I did belong to the teachers' unions in the four years I taught. Generally speaking, I did not like the way that the unions represented the teachers. It usually consisted of an old, jaded former or even current teacher with a highly-inflated opinion of themselves whining about how teachers are underpaid. One union I belonged to, encouraged its members to attend the county council meeting in one of the 200 rain ponchos that the union had purchased to symbolize the unions request that the county tap into its "Rainy Day Fund" to fund teacher raises. Can anyone think of a better pictorial of the definition of asinine? I think teachers' unions and many unions in general do a piss-poor job of truly representing their membership. In summation, the only reason I was part of the union was the legal protection it offered when some jack-wagon middle schooler wanted to claim I touched him or her. This actually came into play for a buddy of mine [whom I coached football (why I can't bear the phfailstrip) with] who was arrested on erroneous charges while trying to HELP one of our players who might have had some severe emotional disturbances.

    I do think unions or some sort of representations of teachers' rights are important when discussing student-performance based evaluations. I've seen plenty of instances where EXCELLENT teachers are removed or placed on "plans of assistance" for completely baseless reasons. That all being without student-performance based evaluation. I'm not one of the ones standing in the street begging for raises, nor would I be. Maybe I'm naive but I think there's some merit in doing ones' job and being happy when rewarded. I would like raises just like the next guy but its important to be sensible and sensitive to the climate of the world around you.

    Sorry to go off so much but I felt I did have a valuable, bipartisan (I believe is the word I use in this forum) opinion on the issue(s). In summation, I suppose to provide some support to Mr. copernicus is to the rest of you out there:

    All elephants are gray. Not all things gray are elephants. Some teachers and their unions are horrid. Not all teachers or their unions are.[/QUOTE]

    Great post Jasper, welcome aboard.......

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4501704]Very good post. Welcome, jasper. Hope you stick around a while.[/QUOTE]

    I agree it was a brilliant post. Thoughtful, as open minded and informed and objective as I've read on the issue here actually. I especially liked being referred to as "Mr. Sticks". Bout time some of you folks respected the Elder Statesman on this subform (lol).

    But I can't support telling him he should stay. It's in his own best interests, and sanity, to run screaming fromt his forum as fast as his old teacher legs can carry him.

    This forum corrupts. It divides. It embitters. Is embitter a word? Meh, we have like 6 teachers in here now, I'm sure one will correct me if not......but back on point, I can't suggest to anyone that they stick around in here.

    Only us already lost souls get that suggestion. We're all already beyond help. Thats why we're here.

    It was a good post, and if he's smart, it'll be his last one in Poli-Sci. We make the Phailstrip look like a Mesna meeting in here most days. The best of us, IMO, have in many ways fallen below the worst of the Phailstripers over time.

    And yes, that more than includes myself as well.

  16. #56
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    Its up to 100 or so students now. Poor victimized Nayeem :rolleyes:

    [URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/students-caught-stuyvesant-high-school-regents-cheating-scandal-received-light-punishment-article-1.1102901"]http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/students-caught-stuyvesant-high-school-regents-cheating-scandal-received-light-punishment-article-1.1102901[/URL]

    I will say, the light punishment thing, I dont agree with.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4501818] We make the Phailstrip look like a Mesna meeting in here most days. The best of us, IMO, have in many ways fallen below the worst of the Phailstripers over time.

    And yes, that more than includes myself as well.[/QUOTE]

    Mesna? The best of us below the worst of the Phailstripers (sic)?

    We've got low hopes...

    [IMG]http://www.deviantart.com/download/91795603/Emo_Eeyore_by_sparkjolt.jpg[/IMG]

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;4501818]This forum corrupts. It divides. It embitters.[/QUOTE]

    Only because people take this sh*t too seriously :P

    [IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VcrNn8AiWMc/Tq2CavD4Y1I/AAAAAAAABCs/iv07lVmamsE/s1600/Someone+is+wrong+on+internet.png[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.thelas.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/someone-on-the-internet-is-wrong2.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.skepticalraptor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/honey-im-tired-come-to-bed-now-hold-on-someone-is-being-wrong-on-the-internet.png[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.quiterly.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Someone-is-wrong-on-the-Internet-Complete-a-form-600x772.jpg[/IMG]

  19. #59
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    Thanks for the kind words fellas. I like to think I try to look at every plausible side of a situation and put myself in as many people's shoes as possible. I also stopped getting excited over what people on the internet say a long time ago. Maybe I see it like working with the kids at the Alternative School. No matter how wrong they are, they're convinced they're right.

    I might hang around here a little longer. I agree that people are likely to fly off the handle but I'm still learning things. I am woefully uninformed about our nation's politics. I just finished reading Ron Paul's [I]End the Fed[/I] and I have become more curious. Thought this might be a good place to start to learn a little more. If for no other reason than just to hear what other red-blooded Americans think.

    Thanks again.

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