Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: New Story: Jets Hope Change of Pace Can Spark the Offense

  1. #1
    All Jets 24/7
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    JI Land
    Posts
    1,852
    Post Thanks / Like

    New Story: Jets Hope Change of Pace Can Spark the Offense

    After spending years in the same exact offensive system run at a frustratingly slow pace these Jets are excited to pick up the tempo and find a rhythm and an identity as an offensive unit. With ex-offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer the Jets ran a slow paced offense based around meaningless pre-snap movement that did little to confuse defenses, but managed to confuse the offense plenty.

    How many times over the past few seasons did you see Sanchez finally get into a rhythm moving the ball down the field and into field-goal range only to see Schottenheimer call a Wildcat play or...

    [url=http://www.jetsinsider.com/blogs/christopher_nimbley/?p=2176]More...[/url]

  2. #2
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    5,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Good article--the premise being that Sanchez's failures were all on Schottenheimer. I don't buy it. When the Jets made it to the championship game twice, certainly it wasn't a function of Schoddy holding back the Golden Boy. The problem with Sanchez are:

    1. Last year defense wasn't that dominant
    2. Sanchez is inaccurate
    3. Sanchez can't locate a second receiver.
    4. Sanchez tends to mope when he messes up.

    Bill Walsh couldn't get blood from the stone Sanchez.

  3. #3
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    37
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4501211]Good article--the premise being that Sanchez's failures were all on Schottenheimer. I don't buy it. When the Jets made it to the championship game twice, certainly it wasn't a function of Schoddy holding back the Golden Boy. The problem with Sanchez are:

    1. Last year defense wasn't that dominant
    2. Sanchez is inaccurate
    3. Sanchez can't locate a second receiver.
    4. Sanchez tends to mope when he messes up.

    Bill Walsh couldn't get blood from the stone Sanchez.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks. You know what's funny? I didn't mean to come across as saying all the failures were on Schotty, it just sort of happened. I was planning to talk just about the change in tempo but everything I was working with did fly in stark contrast to Schotty, so this is what I ended up with.

    I do agree with everything you said though, I think the moping is overblown & would've mentioned O-line as a huge problem last year too, but still I'm with you on everything else. But even in the two AFC Championship runs these tempo problems showed up. And no one can argue about Sanchez having trouble looking past his first read, but some of that is on Schotty especially considering he would actually call plays that only had one WR running a route.

    Also it's not even as much about me thinking it's all about Schotty vs. Sparano, but that's the impression the players & coachs are giving, we shall find out if they're right soon enough.

  4. #4
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,283
    Post Thanks / Like
    Great article and very sound analysis.

    It is absolutely shamefull that there are some posters who will nevertheless twist and distort your article in a craven opportunity to needlessly bash Sanchez.....

    It's Sad..... Very Sad... :)
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 06-26-2012 at 02:50 PM.

  5. #5
    Undrafted Free Agent
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    223
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4501211]Good article--the premise being that Sanchez's failures were all on Schottenheimer. I don't buy it. When the Jets made it to the championship game twice, certainly it wasn't a function of Schoddy holding back the Golden Boy. The problem with Sanchez are:

    1. Last year defense wasn't that dominant
    2. Sanchez is inaccurate
    3. Sanchez can't locate a second receiver.
    4. Sanchez tends to mope when he messes up.

    Bill Walsh couldn't get blood from the stone Sanchez.[/QUOTE]

    We will see who is bashing Sanchez at the end of this year. it should be interesting to see if your even close to being right. as a fan is very hard to know what is true and what is perception from outsiders. all i know is i saw a young kid get his ass kicked in all season and was rotating his sholder from the oakland game on and the OC kept calling pass play after pass play
    for a washed up plax I never sadi a bad word about shotty untill that giants game 70 passes was a disgrace and unacceptable especially when the run was actually working early. We shall see how Sanchez does this season inaccurate maybe cant locate second reciever i have never seen this as a problem sometimes it the progression and the defense can cheat and play soft on guys cause they know no one can get there based on the play. just like what rex did to brady in the playoff win guys were running free but brady just couldnt get there based on the plays progerssion. moping who mopes more the Mannings and they are 1 and 2 in my eyes untill someone takes it away from them

  6. #6
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    833
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4501211]Good article--the premise being that Sanchez's failures were all on Schottenheimer. I don't buy it. When the Jets made it to the championship game twice, certainly it wasn't a function of Schoddy holding back the Golden Boy. The problem with Sanchez are:

    1. Last year defense wasn't that dominant
    2. Sanchez is inaccurate
    3. Sanchez can't locate a second receiver.
    4. Sanchez tends to mope when he messes up.

    Bill Walsh couldn't get blood from the stone Sanchez.[/QUOTE]

    Could be very true. Guess we wil,l find out for **** sure this year!

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    898
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4501211]

    2. Sanchez is inaccurate
    3. Sanchez can't locate a second receiver.

    Bill Walsh couldn't get blood from the stone Sanchez.[/QUOTE]

    I completely disagree.

    Yes, Sanchez has been inaccurate, but he's also improved his accuracy each of his past 3 seasons, with different group's of WR's as well. He should continue to improve upon his accuracy, completion percentage.

    If Sanchez "can't locate a second wide receiver", then please explain why he was connecting with both Holmes and Edwards during 2012. Also connects with Dustin Keller quite often. The myth that Sanchez can't find a 2nd WR in completely false.

    So, you're saying that one of the greatest offensive minds in Bill Walsh couldn't improve Sanchez as an overall quarterback? Yeah, ok.

  8. #8
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    9,504
    Post Thanks / Like
    It's hard to be accurate when your offensive line breaks down before your receivers can complete their routes and you've been pummeled and INJURED from the start of the season. Remember, Mark was contemplating having surgery on his shoulder. This isn't going to affect accuracy?

    If you think Mark Sanchez is inaccurate then that's your opinion. It's ill informed but it's an opinion none the less. I saw Mark Sanchez throw the deep route with incredible accuracy for 2 seasons. When you take away his best receivers and replace them with a selfish prick like Holmes and a washed up ex con and mix in a rookie from the slot who appeared to be the most solid of the bunch... what kind of success do you expect a QB to have? Especially when you're constantly in 3rd and long. WRs couldn't beat the CBs. Holmes quit playing. Plaxico couldn't do anything and lacked anything near speed or explosiveness.

    No, Mark isn't perfect. But he was straddled with the worst OC in recent memory who is clearly living off the reputation of his old man. No run game, no WRs, no protection = no success. I'm surprised he wasn't seriously injured with the beatings he took game in and out. He got speared with no calls from the refs. He was hit late constantly, no calls from the refs. When he was hit clean it was coming just as much from our #4 overall over rated LT as it was from the most inept RT in the league. If he wasn't anything but a gamer he'd have been Penningtoned after week 4 when the Ravens just destroyed him.

    All that said, if the defense does it's job JUST ONCE on any of the 4 or 5 game ending drives that they gave up after Sanchez gave them the lead then he'd probably have added another playoff win to his resume and this would be a moot point. However, he's been challenged and he should be challenged and he's accepted that challenge in a way that I think will bring about great progress from him.

  9. #9
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=southside;4501321]It's hard to be accurate when your offensive line breaks down before your receivers can complete their routes and you've been pummeled and INJURED from the start of the season. Remember, Mark was contemplating having surgery on his shoulder. This isn't going to affect accuracy?

    If you think Mark Sanchez is inaccurate then that's your opinion. It's ill informed but it's an opinion none the less. I saw Mark Sanchez throw the deep route with incredible accuracy for 2 seasons. When you take away his best receivers and replace them with a selfish prick like Holmes and a washed up ex con and mix in a rookie from the slot who appeared to be the most solid of the bunch... what kind of success do you expect a QB to have? Especially when you're constantly in 3rd and long. [B]WRs couldn't beat the CBs. Holmes quit playing. Plaxico couldn't do anything[/B] and lacked anything near speed or explosiveness.

    No, Mark isn't perfect. But he was straddled with the [B]worst OC in recent memory[/B] who is clearly living off the reputation of his old man. [B]No run game, no WRs, no protection[/B] = no success. I'm surprised he wasn't seriously injured with the beatings he took game in and out. He got speared with no calls from the refs. He was hit late constantly, no calls from the refs. When he was hit clean it was coming just as much from our #4 overall over rated LT as it was from the most inept RT in the league. If he wasn't anything but a gamer he'd have been Penningtoned after week 4 when the Ravens just destroyed him.

    All that said, [B]if the defense does it's job JUST ONCE[/B] on any of the 4 or 5 game ending drives that they gave up after Sanchez gave them the lead then he'd probably have added another playoff win to his resume and this would be a moot point. However, he's been challenged and he should be challenged and he's accepted that challenge in a way that I think will bring about great progress from him.[/QUOTE]

    The classic Sanchez Apologist post. Throwing [B][U]everybody[/U][/B] on the team under the bus to absolve him of any blame and not acknowledging a single flaw in Sanchez's game. Nope, Mark is awesome, it's everybody else who absolutely sucks, even the defense fails him. Poor guy.

  10. #10
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=southside;4501321][B]All that said, if the defense does it's job JUST ONCE on any of the 4 or 5 game ending drives that they gave up after Sanchez gave them the lead then he'd probably have added another playoff win to his resume and this would be a moot point. [/B]However, he's been challenged and he should be challenged and he's accepted that challenge in a way that I think will bring about great progress from him.[/QUOTE]

    One way of placing blame...

    Here's another one -

    Or if Sanchez just ONCE doesn't throw one of the those 6 td's (pick 6's, fumbles) to the other team, then he'd probably have added another playoff win to his resume and this would be a moot point.

  11. #11
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hawthorne NJ
    Posts
    7,430
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4501342]The classic Sanchez Apologist post. Throwing [B][U]everybody[/U][/B] on the team under the bus to absolve him of any blame and not acknowledging a single flaw in Sanchez's game. Nope, Mark is awesome, it's everybody else who absolutely sucks, even the defense fails him. Poor guy.[/QUOTE]

    You guys are a joke. You bash our QB whenever you get the chance, even when there is plenty of evidence that the offensive system sucked. Then when someone defends him they're apologists. If you want to be a jerk that's your business, but why is it you feel the need to invite everyone down into your sad little pity party. Don't you have some smaller kids to bully or something.

  12. #12
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4501352]You guys are a joke. You bash our QB whenever you get the chance, even when there is plenty of evidence that the offensive system sucked. Then when someone defends him they're apologists. If you want to be a jerk that's your business, but why is it you feel the need to invite everyone down into your sad little pity party. Don't you have some smaller kids to bully or something.[/QUOTE]

    I'm on record saying that I think Sanchez will improve under the new offensive system. He absolutely can become a better QB under the right conditions. It just amazes me how willing some people are to bash everybody but Sanchez (Holmes, Greene, the OL, the entire defense) in order to make Sanchez sound like QB whose elite talent is being stifled. Right now he's a good but very flawed quarterback, it's OK to admit that. The jury is still out on Sanchez' ceiling.

  13. #13
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,283
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4501342]The classic Sanchez Apologist post. Throwing [B][U]everybody[/U][/B] on the team under the bus to absolve him of any blame and not acknowledging a single flaw in Sanchez's game. Nope, Mark is awesome, it's everybody else who absolutely sucks, even the defense fails him. Poor guy.[/QUOTE]

    Insanity....

    Ummmm there is money in it if you can point to anyone who even remotely suggested that Sanchez was even close to being [B]AWESOME[/B] on JI.

    You can't so don't bother...:rolleyes:

    No one on this board says that Sanchez is "Awesome", NO ONE, but such silly statements do seem to fit your predigested regurgitated nonsense.

    Thread after thread it is the same thing....

    A joke, a complete joke!!!
    Last edited by Charlie Brown; 06-26-2012 at 05:20 PM.

  14. #14
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    not tat sanchez doesn't have some problems but aren't they up to the oc and the coaches to correct? how about getting the most out of plax or holmes? or keller? think they have something to do with sanchez being inaccurate or unable to find the second receiver? how about the oline? did they play up to snuff?

    i am way more inclined to believe it was mainly on schitty. he couldn't coach and didn't know how to call or teach plays.

    [QUOTE=rextilleon;4501211]Good article--the premise being that Sanchez's failures were all on Schottenheimer. I don't buy it. When the Jets made it to the championship game twice, certainly it wasn't a function of Schoddy holding back the Golden Boy. The problem with Sanchez are:

    1. Last year defense wasn't that dominant
    2. Sanchez is inaccurate
    3. Sanchez can't locate a second receiver.
    4. Sanchez tends to mope when he messes up.

    Bill Walsh couldn't get blood from the stone Sanchez.[/QUOTE]

  15. #15
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    he's not throwing everybody but sanchez under the bus. he is pointing out that there are also other aspects of the team that failed last season and the common thread is/was schitty. obviously we'll see what happens with sparano and a better group of receivers. if we don't then i doubt if any jets fan would have much good to say about sanchez.

    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4501342]The classic Sanchez Apologist post. Throwing [B][U]everybody[/U][/B] on the team under the bus to absolve him of any blame and not acknowledging a single flaw in Sanchez's game. Nope, Mark is awesome, it's everybody else who absolutely sucks, even the defense fails him. Poor guy.[/QUOTE]

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    898
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4501342]The classic Sanchez Apologist post. Throwing [B][U]everybody[/U][/B] on the team under the bus to absolve him of any blame and not acknowledging a single flaw in Sanchez's game. Nope, Mark is awesome, it's everybody else who absolutely sucks, even the defense fails him. Poor guy.[/QUOTE]

    Do you know how to talk football without accusing other Jets fans/Quarterback supporters as being "Sanchez apologist's"? We're talking football here, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out the flaws of our offense that surrounded Mark Sanchez last season. Key word being 'surrounded'.

    Lets start with Shotty Jr. There's nothing else to be said, other than the fact that he was an awful offensive coordinator. We can use Chad Pennington as an example. As soon as Pennington left Shotty Jr's offensive system, Chad went on to have his 2nd strongest season the following season down in Miami. Kellen Clemens was a bust, but also struggled with Shotty Jr's offensive system. Favre struggled under Shotty Jr's play calling as well (nothing new here), putting up 22 TD's/22 INT's and a QB rating of 81.0. The following season with the Vikings? Favre puts up 33 TD's/7 INT's and a QB rating of 107.2. Both QB's in Pennington and Favre played 1 full season under Shotty, but the moment they left the Jets? They both put up much better production the following season with Shotty Jr out of the picture. Sanchez will develop and progress much faster now that a limited offensive coordinator in Shotty Jr is out of the picture. Does this make us all a "Sanchez Apologist" because we're glad Shotty Jr is no longer here?

    What about Plaxico Burress? You know, the same Plaxico who couldn't even land a training camp invite with the Carolina Panthers this offseason. I'm talking about the same aging Plaxico Burress whom was 35-36 years old after missing just about 3 years away from the game of football due to being in prison. Yeah, right, I'm sure that having a completely useless Burress inside the 20's, as our #2 WR option at that, really helped the development and production of Mark Sanchez on the football field :rolleyes: Does this make us a "Sanchez Apologist" for pointing out that Plaxico was useless between the 20's? His NFL days are over and done with.

    What about a washed up Derrick Mason who Sanchez was forced to work with as our starting slot WR for the first 5 weeks of the season? You think an aging 37 year old WR in Mason only put up 13 receptions, 115 yards and 0 TD's because Sanchez was a struggling quarterback? Fine, that's your right, but then please explain why Mason (after being released due to awful performance/production) only manged to put up 6 receptions, 55 yards and 0 TD's during 7 games with the Houston Texans, post getting released from the Jets. Am I considered a "Sanchez Apologist" due to the fact that I'm making it known that our quarterbacks starting slot WR could no longer play the game of football?

    What about the fact that a late 5th round draft pick in Jeremy Kerley, was thrown into the fire due to the fact that a veteran Mason couldn't produce as our starting slot WR? We threw a rookie WR into the fire, who never had first string reps during the offseason, training camp, preseason and/or first 5 weeks of the season, and expect for Sanchez to have great success with this kid? Heading into 2012 is a different story. Kerley is getting reps with the first string unit, getting himself prepared for a starting role. Am I a " Sanchez Apologist" for pointing out the fact that our coaching staff threw a raw/rookie 5th round draft pick into the fire as Mark's starting slot receiver, along with a completely useless Burress (between the 20's) as our #2 WR?

    You don't think that a young/developing QB going from Edwards, Holmes, Cotchery and Brad Smith as our 4 WR's the year before; to Holmes, Burress (useless between the 20's), Mason (done for as an NFL WR) and Kerley (5th round rookie) hurt Sanchez and our offensive ability? Regardless of all these negative situations Sanchez was faced with, Sanchez still set a career high in completion percentage, total yards, TD's and overall QB rating.

    Lets not even talk about the lack of run game due to a depleted offensive line. Mangold getting hurt crushed our entire offense, not just Sanchez himself. Turner going down for the season, hurt our season before the season even started. Sanchez had no protection from Hunter. None what so ever. Hunter was horrible. Vlad couldn't replace Hunter due to Vlad being a huge bust thus far. Vlad couldn't even replace Mangold while Mangold was out, instead? We had to go with an undrafted rookie who wasn't even with the team during the offseason in replace of Mangold. I can't even remember the kid's name, but he became a disaster.

    Yeah, I'm sure that pointing out the flaws that SURROUNDED our 3rd year quarterback, is considered as being a " Sanchez Apologist" through the eyes of a Sanchez critic.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 06-26-2012 at 05:55 PM.

  17. #17
    All League
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4501395]We're talking football here, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out the flaws of our offense that surrounded Mark Sanchez last season. Key word being 'surrounded'.
    [/QUOTE]

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all... as long as you point out Sanchez' flaws as well. I don't see that anywhere in your post or in the one I initially responded to. The implication seems to be that Sanchez has no flaws, or at least you are unwilling to admit or discuss them.

    Do you see any problems with Sanchez' ability to dissect coverage? To quickly run through his progression? To accurately hit receivers on short to intermediate routes? To protect the football?

  18. #18
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hawthorne NJ
    Posts
    7,430
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4501368]I'm on record saying that I think Sanchez will improve under the new offensive system. He absolutely can become a better QB under the right conditions. It just amazes me how willing some people are to bash everybody but Sanchez (Holmes, Greene, the OL, the entire defense) in order to make Sanchez sound like QB whose elite talent is being stifled. Right now he's a good but very flawed quarterback, it's OK to admit that. The jury is still out on Sanchez' ceiling.[/QUOTE]

    Yes I should have quoted Rexitilly but I was careful not to make it personal. What I was getting at was that it's the bashing that brings out the excuses. I don't agree with blaming everyone. In fact I believe that they all deserve the benefit of the doubt for being burdened under the same system, including the much maligned QB coach who we cannot possibly know how good or bad he is, just as we can't know about the QB. I don't think any QB would have succeeded in the system we were running. That doesn't mean he's going to be great, but it does mean that anyone that says he does know is ignorant, or has an agenda. I could be wrong, but we will know soon.

  19. #19
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    9,504
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'd defend myself but the others have done well.

    ASG5509 sucks at trolling.

  20. #20
    Practice Squad
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    499
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=southside;4501321]It's hard to be accurate when your offensive line breaks down before your receivers can complete their routes and you've been pummeled and INJURED from the start of the season. Remember, Mark was contemplating having surgery on his shoulder. This isn't going to affect accuracy?

    If you think Mark Sanchez is inaccurate then that's your opinion. It's ill informed but it's an opinion none the less. I saw Mark Sanchez throw the deep route with incredible accuracy for 2 seasons. When you take away his best receivers and replace them with a selfish prick like Holmes and a washed up ex con and mix in a rookie from the slot who appeared to be the most solid of the bunch... what kind of success do you expect a QB to have? Especially when you're constantly in 3rd and long. WRs couldn't beat the CBs. Holmes quit playing. Plaxico couldn't do anything and lacked anything near speed or explosiveness.

    No, Mark isn't perfect. But he was straddled with the worst OC in recent memory who is clearly living off the reputation of his old man. No run game, no WRs, no protection = no success. I'm surprised he wasn't seriously injured with the beatings he took game in and out. He got speared with no calls from the refs. He was hit late constantly, no calls from the refs. When he was hit clean it was coming just as much from our #4 overall over rated LT as it was from the most inept RT in the league. If he wasn't anything but a gamer he'd have been Penningtoned after week 4 when the Ravens just destroyed him.

    All that said, if the defense does it's job JUST ONCE on any of the 4 or 5 game ending drives that they gave up after Sanchez gave them the lead then he'd probably have added another playoff win to his resume and this would be a moot point. However, he's been challenged and he should be challenged and he's accepted that challenge in a way that I think will bring about great progress from him.[/QUOTE]Every week qbs get hit more than Sanchez ,Matt Moore of the Phins(where your savior is coming from )got sacked like 50 times in 10 games and still put up better numbers than Sanchez.This was after Sparano ,gave full oc duties to Daboll yet still helped with the o-line. Hunter was ten times the right tackle as the phins gem Marc Columbo. The first year in Miami sparano was lucky that Pennington saved him,other than that he is the worst offensive coach in the league. 4-12 Jets

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us