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Thread: Theory: "Ground and Pound" Is a Hoax

  1. #1
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    Theory: "Ground and Pound" Is a Hoax

    I'm not saying we're not going to run the ball close to 50 percent of the time. I'm just saying I think the organization is doing some smoke-screening.

    Exhibit A: During all of the New York media coverage of the Jets offseason, have you heard a phrase more often than "ground and pound"? The media has bought in to the narrative of "getting back to their identity" because it makes it easy to fill inches in slow months. The front office of course prefers giving the media a soundbite to giving them a playbook. But it'd be stupid to telegraph your intentions so clearly. Strikes me as similar to all the hoopla and analysis surrounding Belichick supposedly changing his base defense to the 4-3 last season, when in fact the Patriots ran multiple fronts and plenty of 3-4, like they always have.

    Exhibit B: How many times did Tony Sparano-led offenses (as head coach in Miami or asst. head coach/o.c. in Dallas) throw the ball more than they ran it? Answer: zero. The closest any of those teams came was the 2011 Dolphins, who ran exactly as often as they passed.

    Exhibit C: Which group is stronger, deeper, and more talented, the Jets running backs or the wide receivers? Neither group is elite. But lets assume you get ZERO out of Stephen Hill -- Holmes, Schilens, Kerley, and Keller are still a better collection of NFL-ready talent than Greene, McKnight, Powell, and Ganaway.

    Exhibit D: Holmes seems too happy with the offense for it to be pure ground-and-pound.

    Exhibit E: The Jets drafted what looks to be a poor-mans Shonn Greene in the garbage rounds (no offense to Ganaway) and traded up for a high-upside, deep-threat receiver in the 2nd.

    Exhibit F: Admittedly this could change with camp cuts and signings, but where is the traditional big-bodied blocking tight end?

    Exhibit G: Right tackle -- the "power tackle" -- is a pretty important part of a run-oriented offense. Wouldn't that spot be a high priority for off-season upgrade? Wouldn't you do more than bring in a couple of veteran backups and hope for the best from Ducasse and Hunter?

    Exhibit H: The Jets have two (thus far) average quarterbacks on their roster. One of them excels in play-action. The other excels in the read-option. BOTH Of those skill sets require defenses to be afraid of the run in order to work. Further incentive for the Jets to broadcast their intention to run the ball 55-60 percent of the time.

    Case closed?

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    I do not think you are right or wrong. But all we are basing everything on now is quotes and some practices.

    This is the off season. Lets not judge them by what they say. Lets judge them by what they do. Which means, lets wait until the games are for real and see what happens.

    If the offense comes out and Sanchez lays an egg and OL doesn't block then the offense is going right into a shell again. I can guarantee that.

    If the offense comes out and plays well then I think Sparano will expand the playbook.

    But IMO the offense is going to be on short leash when the season starts.

    So basically what I am saying is whether or not the Ground and Pound is a hoax will depend on how the offense performs in the passing game.

    But I completely disagree with "Exhibit G". IMO that is just an epic blunder by the FO. No matter what style offense we plan to have, we needed to upgrade at the RT position. Which we did not do. We are poor in the run game and in the pass game at that position.

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    The jets will put a bigger emphasis on the power game this year, but it is not going to be flick a switch and your a power team. They will transition to a power team over the next few years.

    The play book is not a big secret, some one is going to get cut every week until Aug 1st as the jets ready for camp. all those guys that are cut have studied the playbook. It is the play calling /game planning that determines game day plays.

    They traded up for a WR who they had rated higher than any other player on the board at that time. You take the best player available in the first 304 rds, the later rds you pick for need.

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    I don't think "hoax" is the word you're looking for. (OP)

    From your post, it seems that what you're saying is that the rhetoric about "ground and pound" from the coaching staff is a ploy meant to deceive other teams into thinking the Jets are going to run the ball, when in fact they plan to be a passing offense.

    I think your premise is silly. And, even if it were a ploy, how long would it be effective? One game? One half?

    Do you really think the Steelers in week two are going to say to themselves, "The Jets threw the ball 60% of the time last week, but...back in June they said they were going to be a ground and pound team...so, let's prepare for the run."

    If it's a ploy, who are they trying to fool? Other teams? The fans? The press? What would be their motivation to perpetrate this "hoax" as you call it?

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    We were never going to be a Ground and Pound team.

    Sparano said it himself, this will be a chunk play offense and I agree with that theory. Schitty didn't understand the need to attack the safeties 15 yards up the field. Sparano does. He's about running the ball efficiently (what team shouldn't preach this?) and getting respectable chunks in the passing game as opposed to the predictable 3 yard dump off that turned into a turn over more often than it should have last season. Dink and Dunk is for sissies. Give me power run game and a chunky pass game all day.

    We don't need Drew Brees style of passing to be a winning team. Mark Sanchez getting quality targets 10-15 yards down field will do wonders for him. That was something I couldn't stand about Schitty's offense. That and the fact that ALL of the WRs would run the same route on a play and sometimes in the same area of the field. Talk about a clusterfck.

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    [QUOTE=Tackleem;4501388]I'm not saying we're not going to run the ball close to 50 percent of the time. I'm just saying I think the organization is doing some smoke-screening.

    Exhibit A: During all of the New York media coverage of the Jets offseason, have you heard a phrase more often than "ground and pound"? The media has bought in to the narrative of "getting back to their identity" because it makes it easy to fill inches in slow months. The front office of course prefers giving the media a soundbite to giving them a playbook. But it'd be stupid to telegraph your intentions so clearly. Strikes me as similar to all the hoopla and analysis surrounding Belichick supposedly changing his base defense to the 4-3 last season, when in fact the Patriots ran multiple fronts and plenty of 3-4, like they always have.

    Exhibit B: How many times did Tony Sparano-led offenses (as head coach in Miami or asst. head coach/o.c. in Dallas) throw the ball more than they ran it? Answer: zero. The closest any of those teams came was the 2011 Dolphins, who ran exactly as often as they passed.

    Exhibit C: Which group is stronger, deeper, and more talented, the Jets running backs or the wide receivers? Neither group is elite. But lets assume you get ZERO out of Stephen Hill -- Holmes, Schilens, Kerley, and Keller are still a better collection of NFL-ready talent than Greene, McKnight, Powell, and Ganaway.

    Exhibit D: Holmes seems too happy with the offense for it to be pure ground-and-pound.

    Exhibit E: The Jets drafted what looks to be a poor-mans Shonn Greene in the garbage rounds (no offense to Ganaway) and traded up for a high-upside, deep-threat receiver in the 2nd.

    Exhibit F: Admittedly this could change with camp cuts and signings, but where is the traditional big-bodied blocking tight end?

    Exhibit G: Right tackle -- the "power tackle" -- is a pretty important part of a run-oriented offense. Wouldn't that spot be a high priority for off-season upgrade? Wouldn't you do more than bring in a couple of veteran backups and hope for the best from Ducasse and Hunter?

    Exhibit H: The Jets have two (thus far) average quarterbacks on their roster. One of them excels in play-action. The other excels in the read-option. BOTH Of those skill sets require defenses to be afraid of the run in order to work. Further incentive for the Jets to broadcast their intention to run the ball 55-60 percent of the time.

    Case closed?[/QUOTE]

    Let me take each point i can give an explanation. Exhibit A: You are what you are? Every team can figure out what the Jets strong points are. Jets showed last year when they tried to pass more that they didn't have the oline to pass protect. What move this off season improved that area- the oline.


    Exhibit C : Jets Oline showed that when they rely on the run that oline is more than capable of doing the JOb. Did wayne Hunter look bad when the offense relied on the running game. He didn't look so good when it was more passing offense.

    Exhibit D. OF course Holmes is happy. He going to be the one that benefits the most. Let see a team that wants to run the football. (That means more defenders cheating up) A couple of very tall fast WR there to stretch the field. (take safeties with them). S holmes should have his best season ever for the Jets.

    Exhibit E: Yes Jet drafted a poor man Shonn Greene. They have to hope Joe Mcknight develops into that reliable change of pace back. Still they wanty to keep pounding a defense with very similar backs(Greene, Powell and Ganaway) SW Hill just as a decoy going to clear the middle for Keller and Holmes to exploit big time.

    Exhibit F: The Jets can always use a Vlad ducasse as the second TE. You think he would do a good job blocking in the running game.

    Exhibit G: Wayne Hunter in 2010 played very well when they were a run first team at RT. Only exposed when emphasis on offense changed.


    O)F course the Jets are going to be heavy ground and Pound. Tim Tebow as wildcat Qb going to have as big an impact as any move the Jets have made on offense this offseason.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=southside;4501407]We were never going to be a Ground and Pound team.

    Sparano said it himself, this will be a chunk play offense and I agree with that theory. Schitty didn't understand the need to attack the safeties 15 yards up the field. Sparano does. He's about running the ball efficiently (what team shouldn't preach this?) and getting respectable chunks in the passing game as opposed to the predictable 3 yard dump off that turned into a turn over more often than it should have last season. Dink and Dunk is for sissies. Give me power run game and a chunky pass game all day.

    We don't need Drew Brees style of passing to be a winning team. Mark Sanchez getting quality targets 10-15 yards down field will do wonders for him. That was something I couldn't stand about Schitty's offense. That and the fact that ALL of the WRs would run the same route on a play and sometimes in the same area of the field. Talk about a clusterfck.[/QUOTE]

    This guy gets it.







    Outside the Hampur.






    On the Landing Strip.






    Not in real life.







    Here in 2012.:D







    Nice post, Southside.:yes:

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4501429]This guy gets it.







    Outside the Hampur.






    On the Landing Strip.






    Not in real life.







    Here in 2012.:D







    Nice post, Southside.:yes:[/QUOTE]

    :D

    Thanks Dooshy!

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Jetworks;4501429]
    Here in 2012.:D
    [/QUOTE]

    Wow, I remember "here in 09", it's came a long ways ;)

  10. #10
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    Can we stop mentioning schilens as anything? He's going to get hurt or suck. He's never produced before...

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4501443]Can we stop mentioning schilens as anything? He's going to get hurt or suck. He's never produced before...[/QUOTE]

    Mr Know it all has spoken

    Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4501443]Can we stop mentioning schilens as anything? He's going to get hurt or suck. He's never produced before...[/QUOTE]

    WTF is wrong with you SOJF.
    Chaz was in the wrong system, and have you not read the articles about how good he has been in warm ups?
    Also, the coaches are high on him.

  13. #13
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    Ground and Pound is, like a "hoax", right?

    [IMG]http://misslennon2.tripod.com/looking4alarf/chrispaul1.jpg[/IMG]

    Awesome.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=southside;4501407]We were never going to be a Ground and Pound team.

    Sparano said it himself, this will be a chunk play offense and I agree with that theory. Schitty didn't understand the need to attack the safeties 15 yards up the field. Sparano does. He's about running the ball efficiently (what team shouldn't preach this?) and getting respectable chunks in the passing game as opposed to the predictable 3 yard dump off that turned into a turn over more often than it should have last season. Dink and Dunk is for sissies. Give me power run game and a chunky pass game all day.

    We don't need Drew Brees style of passing to be a winning team. Mark Sanchez getting quality targets 10-15 yards down field will do wonders for him. That was something I couldn't stand about Schitty's offense. That and the fact that ALL of the WRs would run the same route on a play and sometimes in the same area of the field. Talk about a clusterfck.[/QUOTE]

    This is a Great Post.........

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=southside;4501407]We were never going to be a Ground and Pound team.

    Sparano said it himself, this will be a chunk play offense and I agree with that theory. Schitty didn't understand the need to attack the safeties 15 yards up the field. Sparano does. He's about running the ball efficiently (what team shouldn't preach this?) and getting respectable chunks in the passing game as opposed to the predictable 3 yard dump off that turned into a turn over more often than it should have last season. Dink and Dunk is for sissies. Give me power run game and a chunky pass game all day.

    We don't need Drew Brees style of passing to be a winning team. Mark Sanchez getting quality targets 10-15 yards down field will do wonders for him. That was something I couldn't stand about Schitty's offense. That and the fact that ALL of the WRs would run the same route on a play and sometimes in the same area of the field. Talk about a clusterfck.[/QUOTE]

    Again another person who has never paid attention to a Phins game with Sparano as a coach. Just because you do not know sparano and his horrible game calling(even worst time management) can you pretend he is a type of coach when his record says differently

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=auctionking;4501485]Again another person who has never paid attention to a Phins game with Sparano as a coach. Just because you do not know sparano and his horrible game calling(even worst time management) can you pretend he is a type of coach when his record says differently[/QUOTE]

    Just another SOJF wallowing

    Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=southside;4501407]We were never going to be a Ground and Pound team.

    Sparano said it himself, this will be a chunk play offense and I agree with that theory. Schitty didn't understand the need to attack the safeties 15 yards up the field. Sparano does. He's about running the ball efficiently (what team shouldn't preach this?) and getting respectable chunks in the passing game as opposed to the predictable 3 yard dump off that turned into a turn over more often than it should have last season. Dink and Dunk is for sissies. Give me power run game and a chunky pass game all day.

    We don't need Drew Brees style of passing to be a winning team. Mark Sanchez getting quality targets 10-15 yards down field will do wonders for him. That was something I couldn't stand about Schitty's offense. That and the fact that ALL of the WRs would run the same route on a play and sometimes in the same area of the field. Talk about a clusterfck.[/QUOTE]

    [URL=http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=4278][IMG]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/3/2hzspbm-1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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    I think this offense is going to be much like the steelers were a few years ago. Strong running game that could pound it with anyone and then hit you over the top with the deep ball.

    The problem with them now is they got to obsessed with the fast wrs they have and got away from the run to much.

    But I think as a whole that is what we are looking for. I dont believe we will run it as much as we did when sanchez was a rookie but you can bet it will be more then last year.

    I also believe a lot depends on Tebow and what we actually get out of him as a runnner.

    And of course if Tebow somehow becomes the starter we will be like 90-10 run-pass

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    The issue is, the O line. It could not block period. Dbrick, was just as bad as hunter. Dbrick is a terrible run blocker as is hunter. So we have two tackles who are inferior run blockers and pass block just as poorly(Brick was terrible last season). Slausson is coming off major shoulder surgery and did ok, lets see what's up with him. Moore was hurt last season and hopefully will be better. Mangold is one hit to his knee, he's been very fortunate so far.

    There are so many things wrong with the O line, it's going to be a long season.

  20. #20
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    There's no reason for them to be smoke screening about anything.:rolleyes:

    What do you think they're going to sneak up on teams? It won't happen. Everyone knows that the Jets weapon is running the ball. They cannot hide it. Now, when they face a great run defending team? Well, they may be forced to air it out. But until then they are going to pound away.

    It appeals very nicely to Rex and his desire to "demoralize" teams. When you run the ball right smack dab into the center of the defense and the opponent still cannot stop it. In other words, they know what's coming and yet they cannot stop it. That will make Rex happy to no end. He'll just posess the ball for very long amounts of time keeping his defense very fresh and rested on the sideline.

    That is what the Jets used to do in 2009 and not many were capable of stopping it.

    Rex loves that. That is his blueprint for winning games.

    Stop trying to push some sort of conspiracy theory. The Jets are a running team. Rex knows it and he's going to take advantage of it.

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