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Thread: Vladimir Ducasse Question

  1. #41
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    So now Gholston, Maybin, and Ducasse are mentioned in the same breath?

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=Apache 51;4502209]So now Gholston, Maybin, and Ducasse are mentioned in the same breath?[/QUOTE]

    Not in my opinion.

    Ducassee is moving in that direction but Maybin "appears" to be moving in the right direction. Lets see what this year brings.

  3. #43
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    what year did that ******Tanny and that ******* Jet FO draft Aaron Maybin and in what round?

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    [QUOTE=Mardukis;4502214]Not in my opinion.

    Ducassee is moving in that direction but Maybin "appears" to be moving in the right direction. Lets see what this year brings.[/QUOTE]

    Maybin, and Gholston were picked 11 and 6 basically top 10. Vlad was 61, almost a 3rd round pick. But the bottom line here it's not the number, it's the man, and if he can contribute or not and time is running out.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Apache 51;4502229]Maybin, and Gholston were picked 11 and 6 basically top 10. Vlad was 61, almost a 3rd round pick. But the bottom line here it's not the number, it's the man, and if he can contribute or not and time is running out.[/QUOTE]

    we agree. If I were in Vegas, I'd bet Maybin has a better remaining JET career than Vlad.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4501656]Mainejet, it's called NFL player development; which is something that you obviously know nothing about.

    Our front office, our coaching staff, our fan base, pretty much everyone and their mothers not only knew, but also understood that we were drafting a project talent with the 29th pick of the 2nd round (61st overall). Your temper tantrums can't and/or won't change that. It's reality buddy.

    [B]These aren't "excuses", these are stone cold facts[/B]. He was a very raw kid coming out of college, one who not only had a language barrier to overcome, but also lacked any type of NCAA Division 1 experience ala playing for a small program such as Massachusetts. He went up against teams such as Albany, Rhode Island, Stony Brook, Delaware, Richmond, North Eastern, Hofstra and James Madison etc, etc; and you honestly mean to tell me, that you're seriously complaining about the fact that an inexperienced project made mistakes as only a raw, 2nd year player, in whom had just about no elite college and/or NFL experience? Are you kidding me? He's been the first UMass football player drafted by the NFL since linebacker Khari Samuel in 1999 for a reason. It's called being a developing project from a small college program.

    Anyone who knew (anything) about the overall situations of Vlad coming out of school, not only knew, but also understood it could take this kid a good 2-3 years of developing under an NFL coaching staff before being ready to come into his own. Which is something that our coaching staff obviously already knew, especially considering the fact that he's yet to be "cut". He's still on the roster for a reason. He'll be here next offseason as well. It's called NFL development. We didn't draft Vlad during the 2nd round to impact asap (regardless of the unrealistic view points that you've shared with us); we drafted Vlad to develop his ability, tap into his potential, coach up his talents all for a chance to see the finished product 2-3 maybe even 4 years down the line.

    You're making a big deal about this, due to the fact that he's a "2nd round draft pick". I can name you 15 1st round draft picks (from the 2010 NFL draft) that's done nothing on the NFL level, and I could also name you 15 2nd round draft picks in which have completely done nothing since being drafted back in 2010. The difference? Those teams expected these players to impact sooner rather than later, the Jets on the other hand? We've only expected to develop this kid over the years.[/QUOTE]

    Stone cold facts my A$$. You constantly make excuses for this turd. The fact is, he's done NOTHING since coming here, absolutely NOTHING. So whether you choose to debate that fact or not is irrelevant.

    You would at least think you'd get some sort of promising play from the guy, right? Just so much as a glimpse of decent play? Even you and your completely biased Kool Aid should be able to grasp that concept, right?

    The ONLY place where the guy has contributed at all is in double TE formations. That's something that we could have gotten out of a guy off the street. We didn't need to waste a 2nd round pick on the guy.

    The entire concept is simply wrong anyway. We don't live in an NFL world where you can take your sweet old time trying to get talent to come through. If the guy had been a 7th round developmental pick I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But a 2nd round pick? Get real.

    You absolutely have to hit on those picks if you expect to win SB's. Well, what are the results? Has he done ANYTHING to warrant where he was taken? NO, he hasn't. Meanwhile, the Jets NEEDED Ducasse to be a player last season very desperately. Instead, they had to get creative to find ways he could actually contribute.

    The fact is, the Jets FO EXPECTED him to at least contribute at Guard the season he was drafted. They thought he'd be our future RT. They were wrong on all counts.

    The kid is a bust, pure and simple. Even if he started to emerge as a pro bowler this season (fat chance:rolleyes:) he'd still be viewed as a wasted pick.

    I truly hope I'm wrong, but my money has him being cut somewhere in the near future. That would PROVE your whole argument is nonsense.

  7. #47
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    Here's all you need to know:

    Vlad was drafted in the 2nd as a huge project with a high upside. The guy played at UMass and only had a few years of organized football under his belt. Look back at any draft preview at that time - he was projected as a 2/3 round pick who would need time to develop.

    Vlad looked the role of a project in year 1. But the Jets miscalculated and thought he could compete for a starting position.

    Vlad had the misfortune of the lock out in his 2nd year, which basically eliminated all off season programs and condensed camp.

    Vlad has looked lost pass blocking, and has been best used as a 2nd TE in obvious run situations.

    Vlad needs to developing this year, or all the cries of 'BUST!' might finally be backed with some validity.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=patman;4501703]Where do you get it takes three years to get an olineman up to snuff? As a Umass guy, I want to root for him to make it, but if the staff thought hunter was a better option last year, that should tell you enough.[/QUOTE]

    Most OL take 3 years to get the pro game. Even Mangold and DBrick struggled in their 2nd years and they where 1st rounders. If you look at OL that excelled year one and never looked back it is a very short list. People like to mention Joe Thomas and Long but even Long has struggled in his 2nd year as well. Much like QBs sometimes you see a rookie wonder but that is FAR from the norm. It is not like RB or OLB where a rook can just step in and dominate. If you look at teams that have drafted 1st round OL in the last 2 years and are starting them they are still among the worst OLs in the league. That is not just a fluke stat. Guys like Trent Williams are great picks but anyone thinking they will make an auto improvement to a pro line over night mistaken 99% of the time. Exp when you are talking 2nd and 3rd rounders here.

    I can't answer why they didn't at least try Vlad out last year. One of the many calls I disagreed on. They said Hunter was the starter and stood by him. They didn't try to put anyone else in there either. Was it a slight on Vlad or a vote of misplaced confidence on Hunter? Take what you will from it but as a fan you truly can't say for sure. 2nd year in the league not a huge shocker IMO that they didn't want to just throw him out there.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Jet-Faith;4501409]I see in one of the pics above he's in at left guard... is that a possibility?
    Also, how has he progressed in mini camps? Anybody know...[/QUOTE]

    Ki moun isit ki pale angle? Kij an yo rele sa an kreyol?

    That's french creole for "Who speaks English and what do they call that in Creole?"

    I think he's doing just fine, overcoming a lot more human hurdles than the other players and is finally out from under the ridiculous novel called Shotty's Playbook. He's getting polished in Sparano's system and could be a solid starter without all the noise.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Limolady;4502403]Ki moun isit ki pale angle? Kij an yo rele sa an kreyol?

    That's french creole for "Who speaks English and what do they call that in Creole?"

    I think he's doing just fine, overcoming a lot more human hurdles than the other players and is finally out from under the ridiculous novel called Shotty's Playbook. He's getting polished in Sparano's system and could be a solid starter without all the noise.[/QUOTE]

    Limo I greatly respect your opinion but when it comes to Vlady boy you are way off. Training camp will decide his fate once and for all.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=Mardukis;4502200]Maybin is not Vernon Gholsten....... Maybin had an impact.[/QUOTE]

    Well maybe my point was that after a couple years of development you might end up with a Gholston, but you might just as well end up with a Maybin, and not one of you geniuses knows which one. The point here is not whether the pick was good or bad. It obviously didn't work out the way we'd have liked, but stop bashing the kid. Vlad...hell even Gholston has feelings, and a family, and you don't see him talking about what a waste of life you people are. What the hell is wrong with you people? Seriously.

  12. #52
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    Just for information purposes, here's who was drafted right after him:


    [+]
    29 (61) Jets Ducasse, Vlad OT 6'4" 332 Massachusetts 7.6 --
    Video
    [+]
    30 (62) Patriots (From Vikings through Texans) Spikes, Brandon LB 6'3" 249 Florida 7.4 --
    Video
    [+]
    31 (63) Colts Angerer, Pat LB 6'0" 235 Iowa 6.2 --
    Video
    [+]
    32 (64) Saints Brown, Charles OT 6'5" 303 Southern Cal 8.1 29
    Video

    [+]
    1 (65) Rams Murphy, Jerome CB 6'0" 196 South Florida 7.7 --
    Video
    [+]
    2 (66) Lions Spievey, Amari CB 5'11" 195 Iowa 6.7 --
    Video
    [+]
    3 (67) Buccaneers Lewis, Myron CB 6'2" 203 Vanderbilt 6.9 --
    Video
    [+]
    4 (68) Chiefs Asamoah, Jon OG 6'4" 305 Illinois 7.8 --
    Video
    [+]
    5 (69) Raiders Veldheer, Jared OT 6'8" 312 Hillsdale 6.9 --
    Video
    [+]
    6 (70) Ravens (From Seahawks through Eagles and Broncos) Dickson, Ed TE 6'4" 249 Oregon 7.6 --
    Video
    [+]
    7 (71) Packers (From Browns through Eagles) Burnett, Morgan SS 6'1" 209 Georgia Tech 7.6 --
    [+]
    8 (72) Bills Carrington, Alex DE 6'5" 285 Arkansas State 7.3 --
    Video
    [+]
    9 (73) Dolphins Jerry, John OT 6'5" 328 Mississippi 7.2 --
    Video
    [+]
    10 (74) Jaguars Smith, D'Anthony DT 6'2" 304 Louisiana Tech 6.0 --

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4502457]Well maybe my point was that after a couple years of development you might end up with a Gholston, but you might just as well end up with a Maybin, and not one of you geniuses knows which one. The point here is not whether the pick was good or bad.[B] It obviously didn't work out the way we'd have liked[/B], but stop bashing the kid. Vlad...hell even Gholston has feelings, and a family, and you don't see him talking about what a waste of life you people are. What the hell is wrong with you people? Seriously.[/QUOTE]

    I think the above point is what some people are trying to dispute. By saying that its natural for him to take 2-3 years to develop, they are implying that where he is now is generally on schedule. That is simply bullsh!t. The team drafted him with the intention of starting in 2010. Or, at the very least, to be competing for a starting position with a guy who rode the pine as a 6th round rookie the year before. Everything in that scenario leads to the conclusion that Ducasse had the skids greased to the starting position. The widely held assumption by many (inside the team and out) was that he would be able to slide over to the RT spot when Woody left. It became evident, quite quickly, that he was ill equipped for either position.

    Now, he may grow into becoming a competent starter or even an above average one - its happened dozens of times over in this league. Its happened even more, however, that guys don't live up to expectations/projections and are out of this league before their first contract is up. And that's fine too. It happens. No team hits on every draft pick and missing on a 2nd round OL won't set the franchise back significantly. I have no animus towards the guy and I'm rooting for him. If he doesn't make it, he won't be the first and I'm sure its not for a lack of trying.

    But to suggest that Ducasse (the draft pick, not the person) is anything but disappointing in his performance thus far, is viewing the situation with blinders on. I hope he pans out to be at at least an average contributor. But, I was hoping for more. I was hoping for Justin Blaylock. Now, I'll be content with......Justin Miller?

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;4502288]Stone cold facts my A$$. You constantly make excuses for this turd. The fact is, he's done NOTHING since coming here, absolutely NOTHING. So whether you choose to debate that fact or not is irrelevant.

    You would at least think you'd get some sort of promising play from the guy, right? Just so much as a glimpse of decent play? Even you and your completely biased Kool Aid should be able to grasp that concept, right?

    The ONLY place where the guy has contributed at all is in double TE formations. That's something that we could have gotten out of a guy off the street. We didn't need to waste a 2nd round pick on the guy.

    The entire concept is simply wrong anyway. We don't live in an NFL world where you can take your sweet old time trying to get talent to come through. If the guy had been a 7th round developmental pick I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But a 2nd round pick? Get real.

    You absolutely have to hit on those picks if you expect to win SB's. Well, what are the results? Has he done ANYTHING to warrant where he was taken? NO, he hasn't. Meanwhile, the Jets NEEDED Ducasse to be a player last season very desperately. Instead, they had to get creative to find ways he could actually contribute.

    The fact is, the Jets FO EXPECTED him to at least contribute at Guard the season he was drafted. They thought he'd be our future RT. They were wrong on all counts.

    The kid is a bust, pure and simple. Even if he started to emerge as a pro bowler this season (fat chance:rolleyes:) he'd still be viewed as a wasted pick.

    I truly hope I'm wrong, but my money has him being cut somewhere in the near future. That would PROVE your whole argument is nonsense.[/QUOTE]

    DWC just got his a$$ handed to him. :yes:

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    [QUOTE=crasherino;4502605]I think the above point is what some people are trying to dispute. By saying that its natural for him to take 2-3 years to develop, they are implying that where he is now is generally on schedule. That is simply bullsh!t. The team drafted him with the intention of starting in 2010. Or, at the very least, to be competing for a starting position with a guy who rode the pine as a 6th round rookie the year before. Everything in that scenario leads to the conclusion that Ducasse had the skids greased to the starting position. The widely held assumption by many (inside the team and out) was that he would be able to slide over to the RT spot when Woody left. It became evident, quite quickly, that he was ill equipped for either position.

    Now, he may grow into becoming a competent starter or even an above average one - its happened dozens of times over in this league. Its happened even more, however, that guys don't live up to expectations/projections and are out of this league before their first contract is up. And that's fine too. It happens. No team hits on every draft pick and missing on a 2nd round OL won't set the franchise back significantly. I have no animus towards the guy and I'm rooting for him. If he doesn't make it, he won't be the first and I'm sure its not for a lack of trying.

    But to suggest that Ducasse (the draft pick, not the person) is anything but disappointing in his performance thus far, is viewing the situation with blinders on. I hope he pans out to be at at least an average contributor. But, I was hoping for more. I was hoping for Justin Blaylock. [B]Now, I'll be content with......Justin Miller?[/B][/QUOTE]

    +1 Great post

    (Justin Miller the KR, NOT the CB):yes:

  16. #56
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    Jets summer Q&A with offensive lineman Vlad Ducasse

    Published: Tuesday, June 26

    By Jenny Vrentas/The Star-LedgerThe Star-Ledger


    Vlad Ducasse (center) considers his third year a make-or-break year for him.
    Today we'll visit with another player who considers this a make-or-break season for him: Offensive lineman Vlad Ducasse. Like Joe McKnight, Ducasse is entering his third pro season, and the 2010 second-round pick is still looking to make his mark. He's worked at both right tackle and left guard this offseason, and has drawn praise from the coaches for the strides he's made in his first full offseason with the team.

    Coach Rex Ryan has said you are a different player. Do you feel like a different player?
    With the new scheme and everything, the new coaching, the new offensive style that Coach (Tony) Sparano and Coach Gug (Dave DeGuglielmo) came in with, everything just seemed like it fit in. I fit in to everything a lot better than last year and the year before. Everything is more simple. You get on the line, you hear the call, and you are ready to go. So it is not like you get on the line, and youíre trying to put two and two together. And once you know what youíre doing out there, the next step is everything kind of flows by itself.

    What are your personal goals for the season?
    Hopefully I get way more playing time than I did last year. Thatís the ultimate goal, every year: just get more playing time, just get in there, get in the mix of playing time.

    What is the biggest thing you have learned this offseason?
    Coming into this offseason, my work ethic got way better. I was always working hard. But like with the whole lockout last year, I was working, but I didnít have somebody to coach me through it. This year is way better. The coaches are here, and I get to work one-on-one with our strength coach, and Coach Gug is there. Weíve got OTAs, all that stuff going on. So all those things, theyíre just going to help me realize where I need to be at.

    Have you changed your weight?
    Iím about the same, 330, I was at last year. But Iíve been focusing on more footwork and core strength. Because I am already strong, we focused on strength, but we focused on the little things like technique. Itís not just lifting a weight, use certain muscles to get it done.

    What are your plans for the summer?
    I see myself just working and watching film, thatís pretty much it. I live around here, and I have to be here -- personally, for me, I think I have to be here just to be around, watching film on my own and still working with (strength and conditioning coach) Bill (Hughan).

    Is this a make-or-break year for you?
    Thatís how I see it. Thatís what I see it as. This is my third year, and I put a lot of pressure on myself that I have to do better than last year. I canít go into this year expecting, "You know what, Iím going to do the same thing I did last year." I have to get better, and theyíre expecting me to be better, and I put a lot of pressure on myself to take that next step.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4502457]Well maybe my point was that after a couple years of development you might end up with a Gholston, but you might just as well end up with a Maybin, and not one of you geniuses knows which one. The point here is not whether the pick was good or bad. It obviously didn't work out the way we'd have liked, but stop bashing the kid. Vlad...hell even Gholston has feelings, and a family, and you don't see him talking about what a waste of life you people are. What the hell is wrong with you people? Seriously.[/QUOTE]


    Comes with the territory. Play pro ball, deal with the fans.

    Has always been that way.

    I have NO SYMPATHY for Vlad or others like him. He has cashed a HUGE check as payment for the scrutiny.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=crasherino;4502605]I think the above point is what some people are trying to dispute. By saying that its natural for him to take 2-3 years to develop, they are implying that where he is now is generally on schedule. That is simply bullsh!t. The team drafted him with the intention of starting in 2010. Or, at the very least, to be competing for a starting position with a guy who rode the pine as a 6th round rookie the year before. Everything in that scenario leads to the conclusion that Ducasse had the skids greased to the starting position. The widely held assumption by many (inside the team and out) was that he would be able to slide over to the RT spot when Woody left. It became evident, quite quickly, that he was ill equipped for either position.

    Now, he may grow into becoming a competent starter or even an above average one - its happened dozens of times over in this league. Its happened even more, however, that guys don't live up to expectations/projections and are out of this league before their first contract is up. And that's fine too. It happens. No team hits on every draft pick and missing on a 2nd round OL won't set the franchise back significantly. I have no animus towards the guy and I'm rooting for him. If he doesn't make it, he won't be the first and I'm sure its not for a lack of trying.

    But to suggest that Ducasse (the draft pick, not the person) is anything but disappointing in his performance thus far, is viewing the situation with blinders on. I hope he pans out to be at at least an average contributor. But, I was hoping for more. I was hoping for Justin Blaylock. Now, I'll be content with......Justin Miller?[/QUOTE]

    No I don't have a problem with that. We obviously would not have used a 2nd round pick on a guy that was going to take 3 years to develop into a starter. I'm only saying that he may yet develop. He has the potential, and we've invested greatly in him. So basically we have people arguing two different points here. I agree that the people that say he was still a good pick where he was, are delusional, but they don't bother me nearly as much as the belligerent ones, and a case could be made that it's the people that say he's a piece of **** that cause the over reactions. You know he's a real live person, and a member of the Jets. Think about how much offense I take from this, then think about all the people that visit this site for the first time, and never want to come back again because of the attitudes of some of the more persistently derogatory(using the term lightly) people on this site. I think the same personal attack rules should apply to our players as to the members. Those guys need to tone down their rhetoric.

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    Listen. I don't think anyone saying give the kid chance would not have like to see Vlad develop more quickly. Yet, most of realize this pick was for the long term and not the instant impact one would like from a #2 pick. Was he a stretch at 61 maybe so, but sometimes you roll the dice and hope you pop that 7/11. All the questions about this young man will be answered by season's end. Yet, keep in mind that O-linemen pay off big, as guys who make there impact long down the road and for many years longer then most players. I just don't want to give up too early on him and have another team reap the benefits of pick vs/vs Maybin. I will more then happy to partake of that plate of crow at the end of this season if this kid does not show he was worth the time,effort and patience it took to get him to that point.


    ---
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    [QUOTE=NY2FLDWC85;4501647]Our coaching staff, front office and fan base as a whole not only knew, but also understood that when drafting Vladimir Ducasse, we were drafting a very raw/project type of offensive lineman with the 61st overall pick of 2010 NFL draft. Lets not label this kid or make him out to be some type of bust just yet.

    We all knew (to begin with) that it would take at least 2-3 years of developing this kid before he was ready to come into his own. Now, he's only heading into his 3rd NFL season, but yet, we're already seeing a limited amount of Jet fans asking/calling for his walking papers? I call it the Eli Manning treatment ala New Yorkers trying to run a player out of town, before first giving that player a fair chance to reach success/full potential. Patience is a virtue in regards to developing a raw NFL draft selection. Vlad was as raw as they come, with a language barrier to overcome as well.

    This isn't a Vernon Gholston type situation, in which we drafted an 'expected NFL ready player' with the 6th overall pick of the NFL draft, played him for 3 years at multiple positions, only to find out (later on) that we couldn't squeeze any potential/production out of the bust (0 career sacks). Gholston actually had a clause built into his contract (before the 2010 season) that would award him a $9 million bonus if he simply recorded one sack. Or caused a fumble. Or a recovered a fumble. Or caught an interception. In 45 NFL games, he did none of those things. Zero. As a front office, we had no time to wait on a potential development of Vernon Gholston for the simple fact, we signed him to a five-year, $40 million contract. Please, lets not act like this is another Vernon Gholston situation.

    You don't just cut a 2nd round draft selection after two years of developing under our coaching staff, when we all knew that Vlad was a project talent to begin with. We only signed him to a four-year deal worth $3.25 million. We have more to lose by cutting Vlad when compared to gaining anything in return due to a knee-jerk reaction (release). The kid is built like a freak of nature. He's listed as being 6' 5", 325 pounds. He hasn't shown it on the football field, but his potential goes through the roof. I'm willing to wait for this kid to develop in order to see the finished product, because it could become well worth the wait.

    I wouldn't be shocked to see Vlad have a stand-out preseason heading into the regular season. He's heading into his 3rd season of being developed and coached up by our coaching staff, he's learning behind leaders on the offensive line in Ferguson, Mangold and Moore; I'm not willing to give up on this kid yet, before he's been fully coached up/developed/given a chance to succeed.[/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. Pure and utter nonsense. Starters can be had in the second round of the draft. He was very raw, but he wasn't taken to be a 3 year project. Not a chance. You draft guys like Ducasse in the 6th or 7th round. Those are the picks you use on guys who are physically gifted and mentally and technically useless.

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