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Thread: Official Gameday Thread: Mandate vs. America, Thursday 10 AM

  1. #121
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    I have a doctor's appointment on Monday. I am lucky enough to have a nice doctor who will actually have a conversation with his patients. Can't wait to get his opinion. We have already talked about it in general and he was skeptical. My guess is he is not going to take on any more patients. It just isn't worth it.

    We have a shortage of doctors as it is and now there is going to be a flood of more patients. How is that going to improve the QUALITY of health care?

    There is a reason why we never had any programs like this. It is not practical for a nation this size. It might work in a country with 1/10 of our population. Doesn't mean it will work here.

    The real issues are the cost of insurance, quality of insurance and the much needed malpractice/tort reform. Who would want to become a doctor or more specifically have a private practice? The liabilities and overhead are enormous. More patients = more liability.

  2. #122
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4503571]Kinda makes you wonder why companies provided health insurance to begin with BEFORE Obamacare. $0 dollar fine vs $15,000 bucks out of the company coffer per insurance policy.[/QUOTE]

    You really wonder about that? Wow.

    Do you also wonder why we have electricity if it costs so much money?

  3. #123
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    [QUOTE=JetPotato;4503582]You really wonder about that? Wow.

    Do you also wonder why we have electricity if it costs so much money?[/QUOTE]

    Your sarcasm meter appears to be broken.

    Please re-calibrate it and check back later.

    [IMG]http://www.orangepower.com/attachments/sarcasm-meter-jpg.8323/[/IMG]


    :P:D

  4. #124
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    [IMG]http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq262/rustybindings/532638_10150909125236275_1481844099_n.jpg[/IMG]

  5. #125
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    While this bill seems far from perfect it is a step in the right direction. I am not a big fan of Obama but I credit him in this way; his administration made an attempt to make a horrific situation better. Unless you believe the fairy tales that we have the best health care system in the world!!! :zzz:


    #1 What the United States spent on health care in 2009 was greater than the entire GDP of Great Britain.

    #2 According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5% of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3%.

    #3 The United States spent 2.47 trillion dollars on health care in 2009. It is being projected that the U.S. will spend 4.5 trillion dollars on health care in 2019.

    #4 One study found that approximately 41 percent of working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

    #5 According to a report published in The American Journal of Medicine, medical bills are a major factor in more than 60 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the United States. Of those bankruptcies that were caused by medical bills, approximately 75 percent of them involved individuals that actually did have health insurance.

    #6 Over the past decade, health insurance premiums have risen three times faster than wages have in the United States.

    [B]#7 The chairman of Aetna, the third largest health insurance company in the United States, brought in a staggering $68.7 million during 2010. Ron Williams exercised stock options that were worth approximately $50.3 million and he raked in an additional $18.4 million in wages and other forms of compensation. The funny thing is that he left the company and didn't even work the whole year.[/B]

    [B]#8 The top executives at the five largest for-profit health insurance companies in the United States combined to receive nearly $200 million in total compensation for 2009.[/B]

    [B]#9 Even as the rest of the country struggled with a deep recession, U.S. health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent during 2009 alone.[/B]

    [B]#10 According to a report by Health Care for America Now, America's five biggest for-profit health insurance companies ended 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion.[/B]

    #11 In the United States, health insurance administration expenses account for 8 percent of all health care costs. In Finland, that figure is just 2 percent.

    #12 Health insurance rate increases are getting out of control. According to the Los Angeles Times, Blue Shield of California announced plans earlier this year to raise rates an average of 30% to 35%, and some individual policy holders were slated to see their health insurance premiums rise by up to 59 percent.

    #13 According to an article on the Mother Jones website, health insurance premiums for small employers in the U.S. increased 180% between 1999 and 2009.

    #14 Since 2003, health insurance companies have shelled out more than $42 million in state-level campaign contributions.

    #15 There were more than two dozen pharmaceutical companies that made over a billion dollars in profits each during 2008.

    #16 Each year, tens of billions of dollars is spent on pharmaceutical marketing in the United States alone.

    #17 Prescription drugs cost about 50% more in the United States than they do in other countries.

    #18 Nearly half of all Americans now use prescription drugs on a regular basis according to a CDC report that was recently released. According to the report, approximately one-third of all Americans use two or more pharmaceutical drugs, and more than ten percent of all Americans use five or more drugs on a regular basis.

    #19 According to the CDC, approximately three quarters of a million people a year are rushed to emergency rooms in the United States because of adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs.

    #20 The Food and Drug Administration reported 1,742 prescription drug recalls in 2009, which was a gigantic increase from 426 drug recalls in 2008.

    #21 Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than children in Europe are.

    #22 The percentage of women taking antidepressants in America is higher than in any other country in the world.

    #23 Lawyers are certainly doing their part to contribute to soaring health care costs. According to one recent study, the medical liability system in the United States added approximately $55.6 billion to the cost of health care in 2008.

    #24 According to one doctor interviewed by Fox News, "a gunshot wound to the head, chest or abdomen" will cost $13,000 at his hospital the moment the victim comes in the door, and then there will be significant additional charges depending on how bad the wound is.

    #25 Why are c-sections on the rise? It is because a vaginal delivery costs approximately $5,992, while a c-section costs approximately $8,558.

    [B]#26 According to the CIA World Factbook, the United States had a higher infant mortality rate than 45 other nations in 2009.[/B]

    #[B]27 The infant mortality rate in the United States is nearly three times as high as it is in Singapore.[/B]

    #28 It is estimated that hospitals overcharge Americans by about 10 billion dollars every single year.

    #29 In fact, one trained medical billing advocate says that over 90 percent of all the medical bills that she has audited contain "gross overcharges".

    #30 It is not uncommon for insurance companies to get hospitals to knock their bills down by up to 95 percent, but if you are uninsured or you don't know how the system works then you are out of luck.

    #31 Over the last decade, the number of Americans without health insurance has risen from about 38 million to about 52 million.

    #32 People living in the United States are three times more likely to have diabetes than people living in the United Kingdom.

    #33 Today, people living in Puerto Rico have a greater life expectancy than people living in the United States do.

    #34 According to OECD statistics, Americans are twice as obese as Canadians are.

    #35 Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid. Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid.

    #36 The U.S. government now says that the Medicare trust fund will run out five years faster than they were projecting just last year.

    #37 It is being projected that the federal government will account for more than 50 percent of all health care spending in 2012.

    #38 Greece has twice as many hospital beds per person as the United States does.

    #39 The state of California now ranks dead last out of all 50 states in the number of emergency rooms per million people.

    #40 According to one survey, approximately 1 out of every 4 Californians under the age of 65 has absolutely no health insurance.

    #41 According to a PricewaterhouseCoopers report, "inefficient claims processing" costs the U.S. health care system 210 billion dollars every single year.

    #42 Today, approximately 40% of all U.S. doctors are age 55 or older.

    #43 According to the American Association of Medical Colleges, we were already going to be facing a shortage of more than 150,000 doctors over the next 15 years even before Obamacare was passed.

    #44 An IBD/TIPP poll taken back in August 2009 found that 4 out of every 9 American doctors said that they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passed Obamacare.

    #45 According to a survey published in the New England Journal of Medicine, approximately one-third of all practicing physicians in the United States indicated that they may leave the medical profession because of the new health care law.

    #46 According to a Merritt Hawkins survey of 2,379 doctors that was conducted in August 2010, 40 percent of all U.S. doctors plan to "retire, seek a nonclinical job in health care, or seek a job or business unrelated to health care" at some point over the next three years.

    #47 According to the executive director of Physician Hospitals of America, Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of at least 60 doctor-owned hospitals that were scheduled to open soon.

    #48 According to a report released in 2010, Americans spend approximately twice as much as residents of other developed countries do on health care.

    #49 If the U.S. health care system was a country, it would be the 6th largest economy in the entire world.

    #50 According to numbers released by Deloitte Consulting, a whopping 875,000 Americans were "medical tourists" in 2010.

    [url]http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/50-u-s-health-care-statistics-that-will-absolutely-astonish-you[/url]
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 06-29-2012 at 12:10 PM.

  6. #126
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    By the way, this was recently reported from CNN about where the anti-health reform money was coming from:

    [I]Karl Rove's conservative Crossroads Grassroots Policy Strategies spent the most among all groups and campaigns -- $14.98 million -- on ads that ran 22,004 times.[/I]

    I have observed that when I find myself on the opposite end of an issue that Karl Rove is advocating, I am usually in the right. ;)

  7. #127
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4503707]While this bill seems far from perfect it is a step in the right direction. I am not a big fan of Obama but I credit him in this way; his administration made an attempt to make a horrific situation better. Unless you believe the fairy tales that we have the best health care system in the world!!! :zzz:


    #1 What the United States spent on health care in 2009 was greater than the entire GDP of Great Britain.

    #2 According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5% of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3%.

    #3 The United States spent 2.47 trillion dollars on health care in 2009. It is being projected that the U.S. will spend 4.5 trillion dollars on health care in 2019.

    #4 One study found that approximately 41 percent of working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

    #5 According to a report published in The American Journal of Medicine, medical bills are a major factor in more than 60 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the United States. Of those bankruptcies that were caused by medical bills, approximately 75 percent of them involved individuals that actually did have health insurance.

    #6 Over the past decade, health insurance premiums have risen three times faster than wages have in the United States.

    [B]#7 The chairman of Aetna, the third largest health insurance company in the United States, brought in a staggering $68.7 million during 2010. Ron Williams exercised stock options that were worth approximately $50.3 million and he raked in an additional $18.4 million in wages and other forms of compensation. The funny thing is that he left the company and didn't even work the whole year.[/B]

    [B]#8 The top executives at the five largest for-profit health insurance companies in the United States combined to receive nearly $200 million in total compensation for 2009.[/B]

    [B]#9 Even as the rest of the country struggled with a deep recession, U.S. health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent during 2009 alone.[/B]

    [B]#10 According to a report by Health Care for America Now, America's five biggest for-profit health insurance companies ended 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion.[/B]

    #11 In the United States, health insurance administration expenses account for 8 percent of all health care costs. In Finland, that figure is just 2 percent.

    #12 Health insurance rate increases are getting out of control. According to the Los Angeles Times, Blue Shield of California announced plans earlier this year to raise rates an average of 30% to 35%, and some individual policy holders were slated to see their health insurance premiums rise by up to 59 percent.

    #13 According to an article on the Mother Jones website, health insurance premiums for small employers in the U.S. increased 180% between 1999 and 2009.

    #14 Since 2003, health insurance companies have shelled out more than $42 million in state-level campaign contributions.

    #15 There were more than two dozen pharmaceutical companies that made over a billion dollars in profits each during 2008.

    #16 Each year, tens of billions of dollars is spent on pharmaceutical marketing in the United States alone.

    #17 Prescription drugs cost about 50% more in the United States than they do in other countries.

    #18 Nearly half of all Americans now use prescription drugs on a regular basis according to a CDC report that was recently released. According to the report, approximately one-third of all Americans use two or more pharmaceutical drugs, and more than ten percent of all Americans use five or more drugs on a regular basis.

    #19 According to the CDC, approximately three quarters of a million people a year are rushed to emergency rooms in the United States because of adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs.

    #20 The Food and Drug Administration reported 1,742 prescription drug recalls in 2009, which was a gigantic increase from 426 drug recalls in 2008.

    #21 Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than children in Europe are.

    #22 The percentage of women taking antidepressants in America is higher than in any other country in the world.

    #23 Lawyers are certainly doing their part to contribute to soaring health care costs. According to one recent study, the medical liability system in the United States added approximately $55.6 billion to the cost of health care in 2008.

    #24 According to one doctor interviewed by Fox News, "a gunshot wound to the head, chest or abdomen" will cost $13,000 at his hospital the moment the victim comes in the door, and then there will be significant additional charges depending on how bad the wound is.

    #25 Why are c-sections on the rise? It is because a vaginal delivery costs approximately $5,992, while a c-section costs approximately $8,558.

    [B]#26 According to the CIA World Factbook, the United States had a higher infant mortality rate than 45 other nations in 2009.[/B]

    #[B]27 The infant mortality rate in the United States is nearly three times as high as it is in Singapore.[/B]

    #28 It is estimated that hospitals overcharge Americans by about 10 billion dollars every single year.

    #29 In fact, one trained medical billing advocate says that over 90 percent of all the medical bills that she has audited contain "gross overcharges".

    #30 It is not uncommon for insurance companies to get hospitals to knock their bills down by up to 95 percent, but if you are uninsured or you don't know how the system works then you are out of luck.

    #31 Over the last decade, the number of Americans without health insurance has risen from about 38 million to about 52 million.

    #32 People living in the United States are three times more likely to have diabetes than people living in the United Kingdom.

    #33 Today, people living in Puerto Rico have a greater life expectancy than people living in the United States do.

    #34 According to OECD statistics, Americans are twice as obese as Canadians are.

    #35 Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid. Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid.

    #36 The U.S. government now says that the Medicare trust fund will run out five years faster than they were projecting just last year.

    #37 It is being projected that the federal government will account for more than 50 percent of all health care spending in 2012.

    #38 Greece has twice as many hospital beds per person as the United States does.

    #39 The state of California now ranks dead last out of all 50 states in the number of emergency rooms per million people.

    #40 According to one survey, approximately 1 out of every 4 Californians under the age of 65 has absolutely no health insurance.

    #41 According to a PricewaterhouseCoopers report, "inefficient claims processing" costs the U.S. health care system 210 billion dollars every single year.

    #42 Today, approximately 40% of all U.S. doctors are age 55 or older.

    #43 According to the American Association of Medical Colleges, we were already going to be facing a shortage of more than 150,000 doctors over the next 15 years even before Obamacare was passed.

    #44 An IBD/TIPP poll taken back in August 2009 found that 4 out of every 9 American doctors said that they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passed Obamacare.

    #45 According to a survey published in the New England Journal of Medicine, approximately one-third of all practicing physicians in the United States indicated that they may leave the medical profession because of the new health care law.

    #46 According to a Merritt Hawkins survey of 2,379 doctors that was conducted in August 2010, 40 percent of all U.S. doctors plan to "retire, seek a nonclinical job in health care, or seek a job or business unrelated to health care" at some point over the next three years.

    #47 According to the executive director of Physician Hospitals of America, Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of at least 60 doctor-owned hospitals that were scheduled to open soon.

    #48 According to a report released in 2010, Americans spend approximately twice as much as residents of other developed countries do on health care.

    #49 If the U.S. health care system was a country, it would be the 6th largest economy in the entire world.

    #50 According to numbers released by Deloitte Consulting, a whopping 875,000 Americans were "medical tourists" in 2010.

    [url]http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/50-u-s-health-care-statistics-that-will-absolutely-astonish-you[/url][/QUOTE]



    Of course you didn't highlight these:

    [B]#43 According to the American Association of Medical Colleges, we were already going to be facing a shortage of more than 150,000 doctors over the next 15 years even before Obamacare was passed.

    #44 An IBD/TIPP poll taken back in August 2009 found that 4 out of every 9 American doctors said that they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passed Obamacare.

    #45 According to a survey published in the New England Journal of Medicine, approximately one-third of all practicing physicians in the United States indicated that they may leave the medical profession because of the new health care law.

    #46 According to a Merritt Hawkins survey of 2,379 doctors that was conducted in August 2010, 40 percent of all U.S. doctors plan to "retire, seek a nonclinical job in health care, or seek a job or business unrelated to health care" at some point over the next three years.

    #47 According to the executive director of Physician Hospitals of America, Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of at least 60 doctor-owned hospitals that were scheduled to open soon.

    [/B]

  8. #128
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    IJF, you are correct in pointing out that healthcare costs are a problem. The issue with Obamacare is that it does nothing whatsoever to address the costs. It also creates a new entitlement for 40 million Americans that we simply dont have the money to pay for. The Obamacare Taxes (close to 1 trillion over 10 years)don't come close to covering the expense. On top of the trillion in new taxes the program is in the hole for an additional 2 trillion. That's just to cover the new entitlement. Those of us that currently purchase insurance are left with even higher premiums then we had before alongside Trillions in new expenses which must result in even more new taxes.

    The entire program doesn't work as described. I would have preferred single payer to Obamacare and that's not saying much. Quite honestly anyone touting Obamacare as a good thing simply doesn't understand the costs or more likely they don't care. They certainly don't understand the collateral damage it will inflict on small businesses and more so those people that work for small businesses.

  9. #129
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4503707]While this bill seems far from perfect it is a step in the right direction. I am not a big fan of Obama but I credit him in this way; his administration made an attempt to make a horrific situation better. Unless you believe the fairy tales that we have the best health care system in the world!!! :zzz:


    #1 What the United States spent on health care in 2009 was greater than the entire GDP of Great Britain.

    #2 According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5% of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3%.

    #3 The United States spent 2.47 trillion dollars on health care in 2009. It is being projected that the U.S. will spend 4.5 trillion dollars on health care in 2019.

    #4 One study found that approximately 41 percent of working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

    #5 According to a report published in The American Journal of Medicine, medical bills are a major factor in more than 60 percent of the personal bankruptcies in the United States. Of those bankruptcies that were caused by medical bills, approximately 75 percent of them involved individuals that actually did have health insurance.

    #6 Over the past decade, health insurance premiums have risen three times faster than wages have in the United States.

    [B]#7 The chairman of Aetna, the third largest health insurance company in the United States, brought in a staggering $68.7 million during 2010. Ron Williams exercised stock options that were worth approximately $50.3 million and he raked in an additional $18.4 million in wages and other forms of compensation. The funny thing is that he left the company and didn't even work the whole year.[/B]

    [B]#8 The top executives at the five largest for-profit health insurance companies in the United States combined to receive nearly $200 million in total compensation for 2009.[/B]

    [B]#9 Even as the rest of the country struggled with a deep recession, U.S. health insurance companies increased their profits by 56 percent during 2009 alone.[/B]

    [B]#10 According to a report by Health Care for America Now, America's five biggest for-profit health insurance companies ended 2009 with a combined profit of $12.2 billion.[/B]

    #11 In the United States, health insurance administration expenses account for 8 percent of all health care costs. In Finland, that figure is just 2 percent.

    #12 Health insurance rate increases are getting out of control. According to the Los Angeles Times, Blue Shield of California announced plans earlier this year to raise rates an average of 30% to 35%, and some individual policy holders were slated to see their health insurance premiums rise by up to 59 percent.

    #13 According to an article on the Mother Jones website, health insurance premiums for small employers in the U.S. increased 180% between 1999 and 2009.

    #14 Since 2003, health insurance companies have shelled out more than $42 million in state-level campaign contributions.

    #15 There were more than two dozen pharmaceutical companies that made over a billion dollars in profits each during 2008.

    #16 Each year, tens of billions of dollars is spent on pharmaceutical marketing in the United States alone.

    #17 Prescription drugs cost about 50% more in the United States than they do in other countries.

    #18 Nearly half of all Americans now use prescription drugs on a regular basis according to a CDC report that was recently released. According to the report, approximately one-third of all Americans use two or more pharmaceutical drugs, and more than ten percent of all Americans use five or more drugs on a regular basis.

    #19 According to the CDC, approximately three quarters of a million people a year are rushed to emergency rooms in the United States because of adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs.

    #20 The Food and Drug Administration reported 1,742 prescription drug recalls in 2009, which was a gigantic increase from 426 drug recalls in 2008.

    #21 Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than children in Europe are.

    #22 The percentage of women taking antidepressants in America is higher than in any other country in the world.

    #23 Lawyers are certainly doing their part to contribute to soaring health care costs. According to one recent study, the medical liability system in the United States added approximately $55.6 billion to the cost of health care in 2008.

    #24 According to one doctor interviewed by Fox News, "a gunshot wound to the head, chest or abdomen" will cost $13,000 at his hospital the moment the victim comes in the door, and then there will be significant additional charges depending on how bad the wound is.

    #25 Why are c-sections on the rise? It is because a vaginal delivery costs approximately $5,992, while a c-section costs approximately $8,558.

    [B]#26 According to the CIA World Factbook, the United States had a higher infant mortality rate than 45 other nations in 2009.[/B]

    #[B]27 The infant mortality rate in the United States is nearly three times as high as it is in Singapore.[/B]

    #28 It is estimated that hospitals overcharge Americans by about 10 billion dollars every single year.

    #29 In fact, one trained medical billing advocate says that over 90 percent of all the medical bills that she has audited contain "gross overcharges".

    #30 It is not uncommon for insurance companies to get hospitals to knock their bills down by up to 95 percent, but if you are uninsured or you don't know how the system works then you are out of luck.

    #31 Over the last decade, the number of Americans without health insurance has risen from about 38 million to about 52 million.

    #32 People living in the United States are three times more likely to have diabetes than people living in the United Kingdom.

    #33 Today, people living in Puerto Rico have a greater life expectancy than people living in the United States do.

    #34 According to OECD statistics, Americans are twice as obese as Canadians are.

    #35 Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid. Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid.

    #36 The U.S. government now says that the Medicare trust fund will run out five years faster than they were projecting just last year.

    #37 It is being projected that the federal government will account for more than 50 percent of all health care spending in 2012.

    #38 Greece has twice as many hospital beds per person as the United States does.

    #39 The state of California now ranks dead last out of all 50 states in the number of emergency rooms per million people.

    #40 According to one survey, approximately 1 out of every 4 Californians under the age of 65 has absolutely no health insurance.

    #41 According to a PricewaterhouseCoopers report, "inefficient claims processing" costs the U.S. health care system 210 billion dollars every single year.

    #42 Today, approximately 40% of all U.S. doctors are age 55 or older.

    #43 According to the American Association of Medical Colleges, we were already going to be facing a shortage of more than 150,000 doctors over the next 15 years even before Obamacare was passed.

    #44 An IBD/TIPP poll taken back in August 2009 found that 4 out of every 9 American doctors said that they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passed Obamacare.

    #45 According to a survey published in the New England Journal of Medicine, approximately one-third of all practicing physicians in the United States indicated that they may leave the medical profession because of the new health care law.

    #46 According to a Merritt Hawkins survey of 2,379 doctors that was conducted in August 2010, 40 percent of all U.S. doctors plan to "retire, seek a nonclinical job in health care, or seek a job or business unrelated to health care" at some point over the next three years.

    #47 According to the executive director of Physician Hospitals of America, Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of at least 60 doctor-owned hospitals that were scheduled to open soon.

    #48 According to a report released in 2010, Americans spend approximately twice as much as residents of other developed countries do on health care.

    #49 If the U.S. health care system was a country, it would be the 6th largest economy in the entire world.

    #50 According to numbers released by Deloitte Consulting, a whopping 875,000 Americans were "medical tourists" in 2010.

    [url]http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/50-u-s-health-care-statistics-that-will-absolutely-astonish-you[/url][/QUOTE]

    Funny how you libs say ' we must have these (ofter outrageous) salaries, benefits and retirement programs "to keep the best people" Except when it comes to CEO's some of whom are responsible for 100's of billions of shareholders $$$ You whine.

  10. #130
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    Some pretty laughable statistics, all given without context or scale or in many cases even reasonable comparison (the first one especially made me lol with how utterly worthless it is as a stat). Also many of them assume the data collection side is spot on, and i can tell you from experience, it's oooooo not in own own Government, much less in some of the less professional/democratic states in the world.

    The problem is this is how some think Law should work. Base it on invalid, partial, and consciosuly omitted stats on everyone as a whole, instead of looking at a problme, seeing what parts don't work, and fixe=ing/working on just that.

    Of course, doing that doesn't give the State as much power. So of course they won't do that, when they just have the State run/regulate us all, including the 70%+ who were and are quite happy with our own healthcare in the U.S.

    To fix a single leaky sink, a modern Liberal would Nationalize the Sink Manufacture and Repairman industries.

  11. #131
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    Why are healthcare costs so high?

    1 Mandates for just about everything
    2 Office visists should be paid by the patient, the visits will drop real quick
    3 The costs of drugs do you know who gives away more drugs then anyone else in the world Yup the USA and yes we are paying for it.
    4 Viagra shouldn't be covered it isn't a health condition. I haven't heard of anyone dying because they can't get it up.
    5 The rubbers, the pills shouldn't be covered that is a personal choice pay for it.

    You may add anything you may like.
    Just remember nothing is free if someone else is paying the bill.

  12. #132
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    Gotta lol when people point out the sky high profits made by these CEOs as if they will take a pay cut to appease us ham and eggers. Not that they should mind you but the talk about lowering a CEOs salary/profits is symbolic squat.

  13. #133
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;4503770]Just remember nothing is free if someone else is paying the bill.[/QUOTE]

    That's cool.

    Won't be free anymore though.

    Unless you'd like to go back to the system where people could just decide to not pay into insurance and just go to the ER when they got sick and stick the bill to everyone who pays for insurance.

    :D

  14. #134
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    Supreme Court Keeps Health Care Law on Life Support
    A Commentary By Scott Rasmussen


    54% Still Favor Repeal of Obama’s Health Care Law
    Regardless of What Supremes Decide, Health Care Law Has Already Lost in Court of Public Opinion


    Friday, June 29, 2012

    The U.S. Supreme Court's decision that President Obama's health care law is constitutional keeps it alive for now. But it's important to remember that the law has already lost in the court of public opinion. The Supreme Court ruling is a temporary reprieve more than anything else.

    In March, I wrote that the health care law was doomed even if it survived the court. Looking at the data today, it's hard to draw any other conclusion.

    Fifty-four percent of voters nationwide still want to see the law repealed. That's going to be a heavy burden for the Obama campaign to bear.

    It's hard to believe that public opinion will change between now and Election Day because opinion on the law hasn't budged in two years. In fact, support for repeal now is exactly the same as it was when the law first passed.

    Consistently, for the past two years, most voters have expressed the view that the law will hurt the quality of care, increase the cost of care and increase the federal deficit.

    As a result, the fact that the law remains in place may end up hurting the president's chances for re-election more than helping them. It gives Mitt Romney another easy target and one that can be tied directly into concerns about the economy.

    If Romney wins, there is virtually no chance the existing health care law will survive.

    If the president is re-elected, the law has a better chance of surviving, but it would still face an uphill struggle. Legislative battles to protect the law would most likely dominate his second term.

    To understand why, keep in mind that most Americans initially supported the concept of health care reform because they wanted the cost of care to be reduced. But only 18 percent believe the current law will accomplish that goal. A massive 81 percent also believe it will end up costing the government more than projected.

    The president believes that government regulation can control the cost of care, but most voters disagree. Voters think that consumer choice and competition between insurance companies will do more to reduce costs than additional regulations.

    Individual Americans recognize that they have more power as consumers than they do as voters. Their choices in a free market give them more control over the economic world than choosing one politician or another.

    Seventy-six percent think they should have the right to choose between expensive insurance plans with low deductibles and low-cost plans with higher deductibles. A similar majority believes everyone should be allowed to choose between expensive plans that cover just about every imaginable medical procedure and lower-cost plans that cover a smaller number of procedures. All such choices would be banned under the current health care law.

    Americans want to be empowered as health care consumers. They don't want the government telling them what to do.

    The president and his colleagues in Congress thought the battle for their health care plan ended in March 2010. Romney and many Republicans thought it might end in the Supreme Court before Election 2012 really took off.

    Now, we recognize that the battle for the president's health care plan is just beginning.

    COPYRIGHT 2012 SCOTT RASMUSSEN

  15. #135
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    What people think and what they do are usually very different.


    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4503872]Supreme Court Keeps Health Care Law on Life Support
    A Commentary By Scott Rasmussen


    54% Still Favor Repeal of Obama’s Health Care Law
    Regardless of What Supremes Decide, Health Care Law Has Already Lost in Court of Public Opinion


    Friday, June 29, 2012

    The U.S. Supreme Court's decision that President Obama's health care law is constitutional keeps it alive for now. But it's important to remember that the law has already lost in the court of public opinion. The Supreme Court ruling is a temporary reprieve more than anything else.

    In March, I wrote that the health care law was doomed even if it survived the court. Looking at the data today, it's hard to draw any other conclusion.

    Fifty-four percent of voters nationwide still want to see the law repealed. That's going to be a heavy burden for the Obama campaign to bear.

    It's hard to believe that public opinion will change between now and Election Day because opinion on the law hasn't budged in two years. In fact, support for repeal now is exactly the same as it was when the law first passed.

    Consistently, for the past two years, most voters have expressed the view that the law will hurt the quality of care, increase the cost of care and increase the federal deficit.

    As a result, the fact that the law remains in place may end up hurting the president's chances for re-election more than helping them. It gives Mitt Romney another easy target and one that can be tied directly into concerns about the economy.

    If Romney wins, there is virtually no chance the existing health care law will survive.

    If the president is re-elected, the law has a better chance of surviving, but it would still face an uphill struggle. Legislative battles to protect the law would most likely dominate his second term.

    To understand why, keep in mind that most Americans initially supported the concept of health care reform because they wanted the cost of care to be reduced. But only 18 percent believe the current law will accomplish that goal. A massive 81 percent also believe it will end up costing the government more than projected.

    The president believes that government regulation can control the cost of care, but most voters disagree. Voters think that consumer choice and competition between insurance companies will do more to reduce costs than additional regulations.

    Individual Americans recognize that they have more power as consumers than they do as voters. Their choices in a free market give them more control over the economic world than choosing one politician or another.

    Seventy-six percent think they should have the right to choose between expensive insurance plans with low deductibles and low-cost plans with higher deductibles. A similar majority believes everyone should be allowed to choose between expensive plans that cover just about every imaginable medical procedure and lower-cost plans that cover a smaller number of procedures. All such choices would be banned under the current health care law.

    Americans want to be empowered as health care consumers. They don't want the government telling them what to do.

    The president and his colleagues in Congress thought the battle for their health care plan ended in March 2010. Romney and many Republicans thought it might end in the Supreme Court before Election 2012 really took off.

    Now, we recognize that the battle for the president's health care plan is just beginning.

    COPYRIGHT 2012 SCOTT RASMUSSEN[/QUOTE]

  16. #136
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    [QUOTE=cr726;4503880]What people think and what they do are usually very different.[/QUOTE]

    Or so you hope. I thought that article nailed it. People don't like the law because it raises the cost of insurance, raises taxes and still increases the deficit. They also believe that it will reduce the quality of care. I think this victory for Obama will be short lived.

  17. #137
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4503881]Or so you hope. I thought that article nailed it. People don't like the law because it raises the cost of insurance, raises taxes and still increases the deficit. They also believe that it will reduce the quality of care. I think this victory for Obama will be short lived.[/QUOTE]

    Of course you thought the article nailed it your mind is made up. I am going to wait and see what happens before I draw a conclusion. The costs were already going up before the bill.

    Getting out of Iraq is more important when it comes to the deficit, IMO.

  18. #138
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4503881] People don't like the law because it raises the cost of insurance...[/QUOTE]

    So, why was the cost going up [I]before[/I] "Obamacare"?

  19. #139
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4503896]So, why was the cost going up [I]before[/I] "Obamacare"?[/QUOTE]

    It was going up but not at this pace. Our premiums were going up on average around 4-6% per year before. We have been up 15% for three years running. You guys aren't getting the point here. What we need is a fix for the rising costs. Obamacare actually accelerated the rise in insurance premiums. For those of us that already have insurance and pay for it this bill does little good. It does lots of bad however when you look at all of the new taxes and deficits that will require even more tax hikes.

    Basically I feel that Obamacare gives every currently insured American (90% or so of us) the shaft. Sure it helps 7-8% of the population that currently is uninsured. Free healthcare is great if you qualify no doubt. But someone has to pay for it. There is no benefit for the rest of us. The plan was sold as something that reduces healthcare costs. They said premiums would go down by $2500 per family. So far my premiums are up $7500 per year since the bill passed. That plus 800 Billion in new taxes over 10 years and 2 trillion of new deficits over 10 years. Thats real money out of my pocket. My company is now looking into high deductable plans because our monthlies for family coverage are going up another 15.5% this year. We already pay $2200 per month per family. That will go to $2500 next year for a grand total of 30K yearly per family. I have the list for the high deductable plans and even those range between $1400 to $1800 per family. Then we need to pay $6000 deductables and coinsurance per family.

    I have to say that (unless you re part of the 8% that will get the free insurance) anyone defending or rooting for this plan to go forward is blinded by their partisanship. Those of you that don't run a business probably have no idea but your bosses do. That money needs to come from somewhere. Many will get stuck on these high deductible plans in the next couple of years. These costs get paid from the pools that determine how much you can be paid.

  20. #140
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    [QUOTE=chiefst2000;4503921]It was going up but not at this pace. Our premiums were going up on average around 4-6% per year before.[/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2011/10/premium-growth.png[/IMG]


    Sure.


    But what explains the higher increases years before?

    Obamacare foreshadowing in 2002?

    lolz....

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