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Thread: Is Bart Scott moving to Strong Safety?

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=SAR I;4504123]Bart Scott sucks, so his physical conditioning is of little importance.

    SAR I[/QUOTE]

    Thanks Tex

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4504067]They're not converting to a true 46 defense. Rex doesn't do anything true to form. Honestly, he's doing what he didn't do in year 2 and year 3, try to evolve the defense. Instead he kept it the same and teams picked up on what they were doing.

    Look at the Patriots' offense. They've evolved tremendously (or changed, or whatever you want to call it) since 2004. Changed the way they go about things, or philosophy, play to personnel strengths, etc. Rex didn't do this the last 2 years. I believe this is evidence of him learning, and evolving. Maybe it won't work out, but you can't stay the same while everyone around you changes and evolves.

    We'll see what happens.[/QUOTE]

    Well the question is whether or not they will have The lineman penetrate, or stand up their man, and whether the middle linebackers will flow or hit a gap. It doesn't really matter whether a guy is standing or has his hand in the dirt. I think it's obvious since they asked guys to slim down, and drafted a 230lb middle linebacker, and a pass rushing DE what they're going to try to do. We really need a true free safety, and quicker weak side backer, but I would imagine Rex has a plan. I only know that Rex does not expect lineman to be getting to the second level this year so that's it, for what it's worth.

    btw it's obvious that sliming down will make you quicker. Not if you're thin like Maybin, but if you're thick like Bart of course it will help his lateral movement, backpedal, and change of direction skills.
    Last edited by NY's stepchild; 06-30-2012 at 12:13 AM.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=Gastineau99;4504118]Davis is like 20lbs lighter than Bart[/QUOTE]

    First Bart is too skinny and now he is 255. Which is it?

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4503942]We do not have the personnel for a true 4-3 and the 46 is obsolete b.c it is vulnerable to the outside run and quick passing game, two things we sucked at last year. We signed some big safeties that will help with the 46 but we never addressed our main problem which was covering the TE. Neither Landry or Bell are good cover safeties.

    IMO all the talk about changing defensive schemes is overblown. The Jets don't have a true base defense, they will run a variation of all the defenses and they are game plan specific. The days of the true 3-4 went out the window Week 1 2010 when Jenkins got rolled up on.

    Back to Scott. Being a step faster is not going to fix Scott's problems in coverage. He is built to move forwards, not backwards. I do not think it is smart to make him try to change his game this late in his career. We need him to be able to take on blocks and free things up for Harris. I am one of the fans who think Scott gets underrated by other fans. I think he has done exactly what he was brought here to do. Same goes for Pace. It is not Scott's fault that the Jets can't cover TEs.[/QUOTE]

    ^^^ This dude gets it. +100 on everything said and yes all this talk of 4-3 and 4-6 being run is WAY overblown. We've ALWAYS ran mutiple fronts and with different downlinement. 2 things offenses won't know when we come out on the field is A. how our defense will be lined up with the front 7 and B. who the downlinemen will be ... you might 2 d linemen, a bunch of LB's and DB's or you might see something else. If its 3rd and 1 or something like that its a bit easier to predict and if you line up 4 wide all day you'll probably see some similar base defenses there but the addition of Coples gives us a lot of solid options now cause he's a MASSIVE DE. Think about how Rex liked to use Suggs ... I see it working the same with Coples. Now I'm not saying the results will be the same its all a grind but I think Rex just see's a huge/athletic kid who doesn't get pushed back too often and has a versatile skill set and he wants to mix things up to use his best players strengths.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Jet Nut;4503965]No, internet personal trainers know better. More than team trainers and coaches.

    They're like internet psychologists, internet Drs., internet GMs, coaches etc.

    They hang all out here a lot.[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes fans know more than the teams upper managerment dude lmao. AHAHAHAHHAH .. I see it with Baseball, Football, and even B Ball fans around the world when they get upset about a contract extention, a signing, or a trade. It is what it is 90% are dumb and 10% are rational. You shouldn't get so overly emotional about fans stating their opinions on and opinion-based forum. I mean in no way shape or form did I ever say I know more about the game than the professional's of the business but just stating an opinion based off things I've seen in the past not just in football but in other sports like boxing, MMA, wrestling (college wrestling), basketball. The idea of losing weight can help you be more explosive is a terrible one. You see REALLY out of shape guys lose weight and they look more explosive but really they are just who they were before they went out of shape. This is all subjective but in the NFL weight is used A LOT more in this league especially up front where you are trying to use your strength and leverage to either push a guy back or obstruct him from getting to a certain place.

    I don't think its far-fetched to think Scott can lose TOO much weight and it not help him. I compare this to a fighter. Just cause you lose weight doesn't mean you are more explosive. Look at MMA fighters and boxers who move down in weight you don't see the guys fighting with an all of a sudden super explosive speed. You are what you are ... sometimes a guy will move down in weight and maybe have a little bit more power cause he's in his proper weight class now but he won't be any more explosive at all. In Football you don't have the luxury of facing guys at your weight class. There will be some bigger TE's, and the Olinemen aren't going to get any smaller.

    I heard Rex, Pettine, and even Bart during the OTA's mention words like "more explosive" .. "running around looking quicker" ... A. nobody is hitting this guy and knocking him around for 2 and a half quarters in OTA's B. he might just be IN-shape vs last year looking completely out of whack and C. the idea that some how this dude is going to be running around the field looking Urlacher in his prime'ish is just bananaz. You are what you are. If there was a trick to magically turn into Seau in his prime like losing some weight then EVERY one would have done it by now. Obviously athleticism plays a role, determination, confidence, and strength. If he's more determined and confident cause he lost some weight cool ... you don't have to be professional personal traininer to know the weight loss won't turn him into an explosive ball-hawk who automatically now has turned into a guy who can cover RB's, TE's, and etc. We're not talking about a guy off his couch losing weight and getting IN-shape. We're talking about a professional athlete who just shed some pounds. Its not going to make him a different player. The only thing it might do with too many pounds shed in the upper body is get him pushed around a little more. Lets see ... O Linemen pushing player X at 250 pounds or O linemen pushing the same player X at around 263 pounds ... hmmmm ... forget what Science tells us lets just defer to everything else.
    Last edited by LadainianIMnotDONE; 06-30-2012 at 02:41 AM.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=ASG0531;4504128]Watch out, DWC is about to give you 3 lengthy paragraphs making the case for Bart Scott as DPOY.[/QUOTE]

    Can't wait.

    SAR I

  7. #47
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    Some players struggle to keep the weight on and other struggle to keep it off.
    Scott may be one that always found it difficult to maintain the weight. By trying to maintain that weight the value achieved was offset by the speed lost,
    when he was younger and faster, the offset was negligible, it is no longer so in Rex's and his opinion.

    Mass/Velocity Physics aside, The hit you deliver is based on you technique. Guys like, Atwater, Lott, Lynch, Harrison were some of the hardest hitters on the field and only weighed #210-#220. This is the result of technique.

    This is a good thing for the jets, He could no longer play at 250, and he wants to try giving it a go at 235, what's to lose?

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4503942][B]We do not have the personnel for a true 4-3 and the 46 is obsolete b.c it is vulnerable to the outside run and quick passing game, two things we sucked at last year.[/B] We signed some big safeties that will help with the 46 but we never addressed our main problem which was covering the TE. Neither Landry or Bell are good cover safeties.

    IMO all the talk about changing defensive schemes is overblown. The Jets don't have a true base defense, they will run a variation of all the defenses and they are game plan specific. The days of the true 3-4 went out the window Week 1 2010 when Jenkins got rolled up on.

    Back to Scott. Being a step faster is not going to fix Scott's problems in coverage. He is built to move forwards, not backwards. I do not think it is smart to make him try to change his game this late in his career. We need him to be able to take on blocks and free things up for Harris. I am one of the fans who think Scott gets underrated by other fans. I think he has done exactly what he was brought here to do. Same goes for Pace. It is not Scott's fault that the Jets can't cover TEs.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree that we don't have the personnel to run the 4-3, we've already been doing it for the last 3 seasons on and off. We already a DL rotation going. Coples and DD can both 3-4 and 4-3 alignments. I also believe Wilk can play in a 4-3. On the inside we have Pouha and a more experienced Kenrick Ellis.

    I also completely disagree with saying that 46 is obsolete. Where are you getting this from? We had a hard time for a little while setting the edge, but at the end of the season there weren't many running to the outside.

    The problems with covering the TE I believe was solved by signing Landry and Bell. Rex wants to get another guy up on the line of scrimmage that can play bump and run with the TE's. Landry and Bell are two big safeties that can not only knock receivers off their routes but they will also be great in run support.

    At the end of the day, pass rush runs it all anyway. ANY QB, no matter who it may be, cannot throw quick passes if they do not have the time to throw or for the route to develop. That's just common sense. I also believe the Jets will have a better pass rush than ever before. That's only my thinking (no proof), but they drafted Coples with the intention of making him a pass rushing DE. Maybin will have another season under his belt and will get his share of sacks.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=Mainejet;4504241]I disagree that we don't have the personnel to run the 4-3, we've already been doing it for the last 3 seasons on and off. We already a DL rotation going. Coples and DD can both 3-4 and 4-3 alignments. I also believe Wilk can play in a 4-3. On the inside we have Pouha and a more experienced Kenrick Ellis.

    I also completely disagree with saying that 46 is obsolete. Where are you getting this from? We had a hard time for a little while setting the edge, but at the end of the season there weren't many running to the outside.

    The problems with covering the TE I believe was solved by signing Landry and Bell. Rex wants to get another guy up on the line of scrimmage that can play bump and run with the TE's. Landry and Bell are two big safeties that can not only knock receivers off their routes but they will also be great in run support.

    At the end of the day, pass rush runs it all anyway. ANY QB, no matter who it may be, cannot throw quick passes if they do not have the time to throw or for the route to develop. That's just common sense. I also believe the Jets will have a better pass rush than ever before. That's only my thinking (no proof), but they drafted Coples with the intention of making him a pass rushing DE. Maybin will have another season under his belt and will get his share of sacks.[/QUOTE]

    1. We do have the personnel to run a 4-3 at times. Not to run it as a base defense. And even when we do run the 4-3, it is rarely a true base 4-3. We run variants of the 4-3 such as the 4-3 Over and 4-3 Under. I do not think we have a true 4-3 DE on the roster. Who are we going to put there? Coples, Pace, Wilk, Maybin. I don't see any of them as that type of player. And pretty much all of our LBs are below average in coverage. Harris is the best of the bunch. I think DD will be good in coverage but I cannot include him until we see him play.

    2. If the 46 was so great why doesn't anybody run it anymore. There are significant vulnerabilities to the defense and you need very specific personnel. It is not an easy defense to run.

    3. I have to agree to disagree. IMO neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage and I believe the TE will continue to be a huge problem. But we will see.

    4. I agree. I think the pass rush will be better. And if we ever develop a reliable natural pass rush (4 man) then that will help with a lot of the coverage problems.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 06-30-2012 at 09:51 AM.

  10. #50
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    I see what the defense is doing as being united. They're all seemingly working out hard. Working on schemes. Working to be better than they have.

    How is any of this bad? Does anyone here know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Jets are going to run a 46 defense? A traditional 46? Knowing that we play the TE and middle crossing WR pass happy Patriots twice a year? Or a 4-3? Like the Giants?

    The team is trying to improve this off-season, moreso than any other under Rex.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4504279]I see what the defense is doing as being united. They're all seemingly working out hard. Working on schemes. Working to be better than they have.

    How is any of this bad? Does anyone here know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Jets are going to run a 46 defense? A traditional 46? Knowing that we play the TE and middle crossing WR pass happy Patriots twice a year? Or a 4-3? Like the Giants?

    The team is trying to improve this off-season, moreso than any other under Rex.[/QUOTE]

    When we run the 46 we will have extra safeties instead of linebackers. That's why we have safety/lb tweeners. This defense is going to be all about versatility. We'll see how it all works out, but it'll be interesting. The only thing that's clear is that Rex expects to keep the lineman out of the secondary. If DDNY is right then it's not going to work.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4504287]When we run the 46 we will have extra safeties instead of linebackers. That's why we have safety/lb tweeners. This defense is going to be all about versatility. We'll see how it all works out, but it'll be interesting. The only thing that's clear is that Rex expects to keep the lineman out of the secondary. If DDNY is right then it's not going to work.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't know DDNY was a defensive coordinator? Maybe the Jets should hire him instead of having Pettine. DDNY is a smart poster, and is right half the time, but why do people here think they've figured out the offseason plan? Just by personnel moves? Because of something Rex says? Since when does anyone take anything the coaches say seriously anymore? We haven't watched a snap of this defense yet, but we already know how it's run?

    Everything Rex is trying to do is predicated on speed and pass rush, hence the weight loss and Coples. It's not a secret. What is a secret is how he plans to use the personnel. Maybin? Wilkerson's productivity? Everything depends on something else.

    You won't know what the defense is going to do until you watch the secondary. The secondary tells you what the LBs are doing, and then what the DL does. That's how QBs read the field after the ball is snapped.

    Brady has little clue as to what we're up to this offseason. Why do we think we know? We can discuss it, and give opinions, but already half dismissing an off-season of work based on those opinions is silly. So negative.

    What would you have the defense do? The clearly have a plan, and I like that, more than any other year.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4504308][B]I didn't know DDNY was a defensive coordinator? Maybe the Jets should hire him instead of having Pettine. DDNY is a smart poster, and is right half the time[/B], but why do people here think they've figured out the offseason plan? Just by personnel moves? Because of something Rex says? Since when does anyone take anything the coaches say seriously anymore? We haven't watched a snap of this defense yet, but we already know how it's run?

    Everything Rex is trying to do is predicated on speed and pass rush, hence the weight loss and Coples. It's not a secret. What is a secret is how he plans to use the personnel. Maybin? Wilkerson's productivity? Everything depends on something else.

    You won't know what the defense is going to do until you watch the secondary. The secondary tells you what the LBs are doing, and then what the DL does. That's how QBs read the field after the ball is snapped.

    Brady has little clue as to what we're up to this offseason. Why do we think we know? We can discuss it, and give opinions, but already half dismissing an off-season of work based on those opinions is silly. So negative.

    What would you have the defense do? The clearly have a plan, and I like that, more than any other year.[/QUOTE]

    Not sure if I should say Thank You or GFY.

    :D

    I agree with everything you are saying. Like I said, I think we will be "multiple" (to quote Ryan and Pettine) in our defenses. Which is way I think all the "are we moving to the 4-3 or 46 defense" talk is unnecessary. I think we are going for versatility which is a very good thing to do.

    I just do not see Scott being any more effective b.c he is lighter. I liked him the way he was. Go downhill, take on blocks and be physical. We wouldn't have to worry about our LBers in coverage if we would have gotten better Safeties. No team likes to have their LBers in coverage. Very few LBers are good in coverage which is why I think all the knocks on our LBers are overblown and nonsense. What we need is good cover safeties and I have my doubts about Landry and Bell in coverage. Combine that with a reliable conventional pass rush and then we will be cooking.
    Last edited by DDNYjets; 06-30-2012 at 11:22 AM.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4504321]Not sure if I should say Thank You or GFY.

    :D

    I agree with everything you are saying. Like I said, I think we will be "multiple" (to quote Ryan and Pettine) in our defenses. Which is way I think all the "are we moving to the 4-3 or 46 defense" talk is unnecessary. I think we are going for versatility which is a very good thing to do.

    I just do not see Scott being any more effective b.c he is lighter. I liked him the way he was. Go downhill, take on blocks and be physical. We wouldn't have to worry about our LBers in coverage if we would have gotten better Safeties. No team likes to have their LBers in coverage. Very few LBers are good in coverage which is why I think all the knocks on our LBers are overblown and nonsense. What we need is good cover safeties and I have my doubts about Landry and Bell in coverage. Combine that with a reliable conventional pass rush and then we will be cooking.[/QUOTE]

    No you're right. We don't have a free safety. Well we do have one, but he's a 6th round rookie. Not sure what we're going to do there. I guess just try to mask that weakness.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4504321]Not sure if I should say Thank You or GFY.

    :D

    I agree with everything you are saying. Like I said, I think we will be "multiple" (to quote Ryan and Pettine) in our defenses. Which is way I think all the "are we moving to the 4-3 or 46 defense" talk is unnecessary. I think we are going for versatility which is a very good thing to do.

    I just do not see Scott being any more effective b.c he is lighter. I liked him the way he was. Go downhill, take on blocks and be physical. We wouldn't have to worry about our LBers in coverage if we would have gotten better Safeties. No team likes to have their LBers in coverage. Very few LBers are good in coverage which is why I think all the knocks on our LBers are overblown and nonsense. What we need is good cover safeties and I have my doubts about Landry and Bell in coverage. Combine that with a reliable conventional pass rush and then we will be cooking.[/QUOTE]

    How about GFY, thanks?

    I just think the team has been working harder. Maybin gained weight. Scott lost. Tebow gained. Sanchez gained.

    The defense will be the most unpredictable this year than any other, IMO. The team seems focused. I'm excited.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4504326]No you're right. We don't have a free safety. Well we do have one, but he's a 6th round rookie. Not sure what we're going to do there. I guess just [B]try to mask that weakness[/B].[/QUOTE]

    And hopefully that is what the pass rush will do. I think it is fair to say that the pass rush will be better this year. The front end will help the back end.

    But the safeties, in terms of coverage, is still an "oy vey" IMO.

    My two biggest worries are RT and Safety. And if we have problems at RT after having ample opportunities to upgrade then I think there is going to be a lot of splainin to do.

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4504308]

    DDNY is a smart poster, and is [B][U]right half the time[/U][/B] [/QUOTE]

    The Mark Sanchez of JI posters.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=DDNYjets;4504246]1. We do have the personnel to run a 4-3 at times. Not to run it as a base defense. And even when we do run the 4-3, it is rarely a true base 4-3. We run variants of the 4-3 such as the 4-3 Over and 4-3 Under. I do not think we have a true 4-3 DE on the roster. Who are we going to put there? Coples, Pace, Wilk, Maybin. I don't see any of them as that type of player. And pretty much all of our LBs are below average in coverage. Harris is the best of the bunch. I think DD will be good in coverage but I cannot include him until we see him play.

    2. If the 46 was so great why doesn't anybody run it anymore. There are significant vulnerabilities to the defense and you need very specific personnel. It is not an easy defense to run.

    3. I have to agree to disagree. IMO neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage and I believe the TE will continue to be a huge problem. But we will see.

    4. I agree. I think the pass rush will be better. And if we ever develop a reliable natural pass rush (4 man) then that will help with a lot of the coverage problems.[/QUOTE]
    All this concern with the defense is misplaced IMO.

    The defense will be fine.

    My concern is with the offense.

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4504404]The Mark Sanchez of JI posters.[/QUOTE]

    LOL.

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=John_0515;4504279]I see what the defense is doing as being united. They're all seemingly working out hard. Working on schemes. Working to be better than they have.

    How is any of this bad? Does anyone here know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Jets are going to run a 46 defense? A traditional 46? Knowing that we play the TE and middle crossing WR pass happy Patriots twice a year? Or a 4-3? Like the Giants?

    The team is trying to improve this off-season, moreso than any other under Rex.[/QUOTE]

    The Jets will do defensively what they always done under Rex, they will be game specific. Vs the Patriots they will use more DBs, but I expect they will be more aggressive than last season when Pettine was calling the games.

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