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Thread: Greene - not very impressive (inherently) & his 2009 playoff meal ticket is expired

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Glad to see this topic inspired a (mostly) intelligent conversation.

    In summary, to respond to some of the comments i'd say;

    --I said i'd be OK with cutting him because i don't think he's all that much better than Powell & Ganaway. Cut Greene and open a roster spot for another player with some developmental potential. Greene has none - and offers no upside

    --Though Arian Foster IS a premier back (don't care what anyone says about HOU's system) you can't bank on UDFAs. As someone pointed out, by and large, the talent does show up in the early rounds. the 2nd round is the sweet spot IMO

    --With the addition of Ganaway & Tebow - Greene's skillset is obsolete. Honestly. Think about it.
    No way you can cut Greene. His cap # is too low, and there is absolutely ZERO depth behind him on the roster. He is one dimensional, but he is all the Jets have at this point

    Developmental = crap

    Im not down on the Tebow idea, but how do you propose he is utilized? In a HB role taking handoffs, or having him rush from under center in the wildkitty?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    No way you can cut Greene. His cap # is too low, and there is absolutely ZERO depth behind him on the roster. He is one dimensional, but he is all the Jets have at this point

    Developmental = crap

    Im not down on the Tebow idea, but how do you propose he is utilized? In a HB role taking handoffs, or having him rush from under center in the wildkitty?
    I agree his cap is so low that it likely doesn't make sense to cut him now... but honestly, as stale as Powell is, and as unproven as Ganaway might be, it's hard to imagine them being worse than Greene. I'd wager than any time we get with 10 yards of the end zone, Tebow has a better chance of running the ball in. He's a better goal line back than greene is. Seriously. Greene is almost obsolete.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jetster View Post
    Yea, Victor Cruz, playing at Tannys alma mater... oops missed him.
    Oh & Colston playing right in front of their noses at Hofstra.... oopsy, maybe we should have kept an eye on him after Chrebet did so well.

    Keep turning over those rocks Tanny.
    Devito, Pitoitua, Dixon, Westerman, Turner, Slauson, Cumberland and others undrafted or grabbed low in the draft say hi.

    But yeah, 30 GMs suck because they missed Cruz and Colston.

  4. #84
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    Hopefully he is in "contract mode" this season and the Jets benefit.

    The thing I have been most disappointed about is the durability. He seems to get hurt a lot and is always getting up slow. He has hurt his ribs a few times, you would think he would wear some padding.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by sdJETSetter View Post
    No way you can cut Greene. His cap # is too low, and there is absolutely ZERO depth behind him on the roster. He is one dimensional, but he is all the Jets have at this point

    Developmental = crap

    Im not down on the Tebow idea, but how do you propose he is utilized? In a HB role taking handoffs, or having him rush from under center in the wildkitty?

    Tim Tebow to be the most effective has to be a QB in the wild cat offense. (under center) You put him at HB and hand off to him , he isn't anywhere close to the same threat. He going to do exactly what Brad Smith was asked to do for the Jets.(wildcat QB)

    Why didn't the Jets ever move Brad Smith to rb full time. If he was as effective at QB in the wildcat running it, than why couldn't he take more hand offs as a Rb in a conventional offense.
    Last edited by Raider9175; 07-03-2012 at 07:44 AM.

  6. #86
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    I don't get it, Greene doesn't break off long runs too often, and doesn't make many people miss, yet he did average 4.2 ypc behind a beat up line last year.

  7. #87
    and he doesnt fumble much

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigFL View Post
    I don't get it, Greene doesn't break off long runs too often, and doesn't make many people miss, yet he did average 4.2 ypc behind a beat up line last year.
    It's funny how for some backs stats never get questioned.. Greene has the best long runs in the playoffs since Freeman was here.. I remember a Jet back whose longest run was 25 yds in 04 and no one complained.. Some moaned about TJ's 2 tds in 07 yet no one said boo about the back in 03 that did the same..

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordy View Post
    FF2 gettin' all down with it.

    I feel a petition coming.
    How many names so far?

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    You're wrong as wrong could be. Trent Richardson's going to become Cleveland's #1 back from day one. That's 17 of 32 starting RB's drafted during the 1st/2nd rounds. No longer 50%. Doug Martin is going to replace LeGarrette Blount as TB's feature back. That's 18 of 32 1st/2nd round starters. And if (key word being 'if') C.J Spiller (1st rounder) replaces Jackson and David Wilson (1st rounders) replaces Bradshaw as NYG's #1 backs (both real possibilities); we're easily looking at 20 out of 32 starting RB's in which were drafted during the 1st and 2nd rounds. What does this tell me? If you want an elite starting talent at the RB position? You draft 1st/2nd rounds. Not the other way around.

    Now, you said something that made zero sense. How does (over) 50% of starting RB's being drafted during the 1st and 2nd rounds, "prove" that "NOT taking a RB during the 1st and 2nd rounds" is the way to go? It doesn't. How many later round backs are currently competing with the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Jones-Drew, Matt Forte, Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Lashawn McCoy, Rice etc, etc? Exactly. Proves your little theory wrong as wrong could be; that's unless you can show me the late rounders putting up as much production as the one's I've mentioned. Good luck with that, because you're wrong.

    Last but not least, lets not forget to mention the fact, when in regards to the modern day HB, that 22 of 27 HOF HB's were selected during the 1st round.

    OJ Simpson: 1st round, 1st overall
    Earl Campbell: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Paul Hornung: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Charley Trippi: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Tony Dorsett: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Marshall Faulk: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Eric Dickerson: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Barry Sanders: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Doak Walker: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Ollie Matson: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Walter Payton: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Gale Sayers: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Jim Brown: 1st round, 6th overall.
    Floyd Little: 1st round, 6th overall.
    John Riggins: 1st round, 6th overall.
    Larry Csonka: 1st round, 8th overall.
    Hugh McElhenny: 1st round, 9th overall.
    Lenny Moore: 1st round, 9th overall.
    Marcus Allen: 1st round, 10th overall.
    Frank Gifford: 1st round, 11th overall.
    Franco Harris: 1st round, 13th overall.
    Emmitt Smith: 1st round, 17th overall.

    I'll never understand why Jet fans are so against the drafting of an impact RB (potentially) during the 1st round, especially considering the fact that we're not only on the verge of seeing 18-19 starting RB's (all) as former 1st round draft selections, but also 22/27 HOF HB's were drafted during the first round. Sometimes you have to reach for great success/production. So instead, they'd rather complain that Shonn Greene isn't an All-Pro or future HOF talent despite the fact that we're getting what we've paid for ala a cheap 3rd round draft selection in which just rushed for 1,000+ yards along with an average of 4.2 yards per carry as a 1st year starter/3rd year player.
    How does pointing out that if 1/2 the starting players are rounds 1 and 2 makes the other HALF lower than rounds 1 and 2 make me 'Wrong as wrong can be" and that I "make no sense"?

    I made no assessment of my feelings of the value of any of the players, I just made a statement in fact. Now you go on spewing stats about hall of famers and your opinions on who will start. So your assessment that round 1 and 2 running backs are better than round 3 and later as a whole? Wow, I sure hope they are, they were taken in higher rounds.

    I think the argument comes down to value and the NFL values this position less as they have had a lot of success post round 2 and that there are few every down backs these days.

    The NFL GM's must be dumber than dumb and wronger than wrong too.

    "In a twenty year span from 1970-1989, there were 88 running backs drafted in the first round for an average of 4.4 per draft.

    However, over the next twenty years, things shifted just a bit. From 1990-2009, there were 65 running backs drafted in the first round for an average of 3.25 per draft."
    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...ty-not-as-much

    I'm actually a fan on Greene's and think he'll have a good season in his walk year, I then think the Jets will replace him with another low cost option.

    I don't post on this site because everything is a personal attack. I'll go back to being a lurker and I'll enjoy my PSL seats (which I hear makes me dumber than dumb too)

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggin94it View Post
    Devito, Pitoitua, Dixon, Westerman, Turner, Slauson, Cumberland and others undrafted or grabbed low in the draft say hi.

    But yeah, 30 GMs suck because they missed Cruz and Colston.
    I wouldn't say any one of those guys is a "hidden gem."

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider9175 View Post
    Tim Tebow to be the most effective has to be a QB in the wild cat offense. (under center) You put him at HB and hand off to him , he isn't anywhere close to the same threat. He going to do exactly what Brad Smith was asked to do for the Jets.(wildcat QB)

    Why didn't the Jets ever move Brad Smith to rb full time. If he was as effective at QB in the wildcat running it, than why couldn't he take more hand offs as a Rb in a conventional offense.
    Tebow is a little bigger than Brad Smith, and runs more like a back. Besides he was drafted in the first round.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    As someone pointed out, by and large, the talent does show up in the early rounds. the 2nd round is the sweet spot IMO
    This made me curious to see the success/failure rate of 1st vs. 2nd round RB picks over the past 25 years (those I regard as confirmed studs in bold and NY Jets in Green). I was shocked at just how many RB busts there are in both of these rounds. I found about a 2:1 ratio of studs in Round 1 (17):Round 2 (8), which seems about right. Plenty of busts in both:

    1987
    Rd 1: Alonzo Highsmith, Brent Fullwood, DJ Dozier, Paul Palmer, Roger Vick, Rod Bernstein (this could be the worst crop of 1st round RBs all time)
    Rd 2: Kenny Flowers, Chrisitan Okoye, Don Smith

    1988
    Rd 1: Gaston Green, John Stephens, Lorenzo White, Brad Muster, Craig Heyward (well this bunch is just as f-ing awful as 1987)
    Rd 2: Icky (Shuffle) Woods, Tony Jeffrey, Thurmon Thomas, Lars Tate

    1989
    Rd 1: Barry Sanders, Tim Worley, Sammie Smith, Cleveland Gary
    Rd 2: Eric Ball, Daryl Johnston

    1990
    Rd 1: Blair Thomas, Emmitt Smith, Darrell Thomson, Steve Broussard, Rodney Hampton, Dexter Carter
    Rd 2: Reggie Cobb, Anthony Thompson, Anthony Johnson, Harold Green, Leroy Hoard

    1991
    Rd 1: Leonard Russell, Harvey Williams
    Rd 2: Eric Bieniemy, Nick Bell, Ricky Waters

    1992
    Rd 1: Tommy Vardell, Tony Smith, Vaughn Dunbar
    Rd 2: Amp Lee, Siran Stacy

    1993
    Rd 1: Garrison Hearst, Jerome Bettis, Robert Smith
    Rd 2: Natrone Means, Glyn Milburn, Roosevelt Potts

    1994
    Rd 1: Marshall Faulk, Greg Hill, William Floyd
    Rd 2: Eric Rhett, Chuck Levy, Charlie Garner, Mario Bates, Donnell Bennett

    1995
    Rd 1: Ki-Jana Carter, Tyrone Wheatley, Napolean Kaufman, James Stewart, Rashaan Salaam
    Rd 2: Ray Zellars, Sherman Williams, Terrell Fletcher

    1996
    Rd 1: Lawrence Phillips, Tim Biakabutuka, Eddie George
    Rd 2: Leeland McElroy, Mike Alstott

    1997
    Rd 1: Warrick Dunn, Antowain Smith
    Rd 2: Tiki Barber, Bryan Hanspard, Corey Dillon, Marc Edwards

    1998
    Rd 1: Curtis Enis, Fred Taylor, Robert Edwards, John Avery
    Rd 2: Robert Holcombe

    1999
    Rd 1: Edge James
    Rd 2: J.J. Johnson, Kevin Faulk, Joe Montgomery, Mike Cloud, Jermaine Fazande

    2000
    Rd 1: Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Ron Dayne, Shaun Alexander, Trung Canidate
    Rd 2: none

    2001
    Rd 1: LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Michael Bennett
    Rd 2: Anthony Thomas, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry

    2002
    Rd 1: William Green, T.J. Duckett
    Rd 2: DeShaun Foster, Clinton Portis, LaDell Betts

    2003
    Rd 1: Willis McGahee, Larry Johnson
    Rd 2: none

    2004
    Rd 1: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones
    Rd 2: Tatum Bell, Julius Jones, Greg Jones

    2005
    Rd 1: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams
    Rd 2: J.J. Arrington, Eric Shelton

    2006
    Rd 1: Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai
    Rd 2: Lendale White, Maurice Jones-Drew

    2007
    Rd 1: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch
    Rd 2: Kenny Irons, Chris Henry, Brian Leonard, Brandon Jackson

    2008
    Rd 1: Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson
    Rd 2: Matt Forte, Ray Rice

    2009
    Rd 1: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells
    Rd 2: LeSean McCoy

    2010
    Rd 1: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best
    Rd 2: Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty

    2011
    Rd 1: Mark Ingram
    Rd 2: Ryan Williams, Shane Vereen, Mike LeShoure, Daniel Thomas
    Last edited by Dcat; 07-03-2012 at 10:03 AM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Pythonpete View Post
    How does pointing out that if 1/2 the starting players are rounds 1 and 2 makes the other HALF lower than rounds 1 and 2 make me 'Wrong as wrong can be" and that I "make no sense"?

    I made no assessment of my feelings of the value of any of the players, I just made a statement in fact. Now you go on spewing stats about hall of famers and your opinions on who will start. So your assessment that round 1 and 2 running backs are better than round 3 and later as a whole? Wow, I sure hope they are, they were taken in higher rounds.

    I think the argument comes down to value and the NFL values this position less as they have had a lot of success post round 2 and that there are few every down backs these days.

    The NFL GM's must be dumber than dumb and wronger than wrong too.

    "In a twenty year span from 1970-1989, there were 88 running backs drafted in the first round for an average of 4.4 per draft.

    However, over the next twenty years, things shifted just a bit. From 1990-2009, there were 65 running backs drafted in the first round for an average of 3.25 per draft."
    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...ty-not-as-much

    I'm actually a fan on Greene's and think he'll have a good season in his walk year, I then think the Jets will replace him with another low cost option.

    I don't post on this site because everything is a personal attack. I'll go back to being a lurker and I'll enjoy my PSL seats (which I hear makes me dumber than dumb too)
    You have learned a valuable lesson about "talking football" with Statz.

    see, it's not logic that's most important. You need to be able to post at least 500 words containing mostly names and stats, interspersed with with awkward phrases. and yes, if you disagree you "know nothing about football."

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    This made me curious to see the success/failure rate of 1st vs. 2nd round RB picks over the past 25 years (those I regard as confirmed studs in bold and NY Jets in Green). I was shocked at just how many RB busts there are in both of these rounds. I found about a 2:1 ratio of studs in Round 1 (17):Round 2 (8), which seems about right. Plenty of busts in both:

    1987
    Rd 1: Alonzo Highsmith, Brent Fullwood, DJ Dozier, Paul Palmer, Roger Vick, Rod Bernstein (this could be the worst crop of 1st round RBs all time)
    Rd 2: Kenny Flowers, Chrisitan Okoye, Don Smith

    1988
    Rd 1: Gaston Green, John Stephens, Lorenzo White, Brad Muster, Craig Heyward (well this bunch is just as f-ing awful as 1987)
    Rd 2: Icky (Shuffle) Woods, Tony Jeffrey, Thurmon Thomas, Lars Tate

    1989
    Rd 1: Barry Sanders, Tim Worley, Sammie Smith, Cleveland Gary
    Rd 2: Eric Ball, Daryl Johnston

    1990
    Rd 1: Blair Thomas, Emmitt Smith, Darrell Thomson, Steve Broussard, Rodney Hampton, Dexter Carter
    Rd 2: Reggie Cobb, Anthony Thompson, Anthony Johnson, Harold Green, Leroy Hoard

    1991
    Rd 1: Leonard Russell, Harvey Williams
    Rd 2: Eric Bieniemy, Nick Bell, Ricky Waters

    1992
    Rd 1: Tommy Vardell, Tony Smith, Vaughn Dunbar
    Rd 2: Amp Lee, Siran Stacy

    1993
    Rd 1: Garrison Hearst, Jerome Bettis, Robert Smith
    Rd 2: Natrone Means, Glyn Milburn, Roosevelt Potts

    1994
    Rd 1: Marshall Faulk, Greg Hill, William Floyd
    Rd 2: Eric Rhett, Chuck Levy, Charlie Garner, Mario Bates, Donnell Bennett

    1995
    Rd 1: Ki-Jana Carter, Tyrone Wheatley, Napolean Kaufman, James Stewart, Rashaan Salaam
    Rd 2: Ray Zellars, Sherman Williams, Terrell Fletcher

    1996
    Rd 1: Lawrence Phillips, Tim Biakabutuka, Eddie George
    Rd 2: Leeland McElroy, Mike Alstott

    1997
    Rd 1: Warrick Dunn, Antowain Smith
    Rd 2: Tiki Barber, Bryan Hanspard, Corey Dillon, Marc Edwards

    1998
    Rd 1: Curtis Enis, Fred Taylor, Robert Edwards, John Avery
    Rd 2: Robert Holcombe

    1999
    Rd 1: Edge James
    Rd 2: J.J. Johnson, Kevin Faulk, Joe Montgomery, Mike Cloud, Jermaine Fazande

    2000
    Rd 1: Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Ron Dayne, Shaun Alexander, Trung Canidate
    Rd 2: none

    2001
    Rd 1: LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Michael Bennett
    Rd 2: Anthony Thomas, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry

    2002
    Rd 1: William Green, T.J. Duckett
    Rd 2: DeShaun Foster, Clinton Portis, LaDell Betts

    2003
    Rd 1: Willis McGahee, Larry Johnson
    Rd 2: none

    2004
    Rd 1: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones
    Rd 2: Tatum Bell, Julius Jones, Greg Jones

    2005
    Rd 1: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams
    Rd 2: J.J. Arrington, Eric Shelton

    2006
    Rd 1: Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai
    Rd 2: Lendale White, Maurice Jones-Drew

    2007
    Rd 1: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch
    Rd 2: Kenny Irons, Chris Henry, Brian Leonard, Brandon Jackson

    2008
    Rd 1: Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson
    Rd 2: Matt Forte, Ray Rice

    2009
    Rd 1: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells
    Rd 2: LeSean McCoy

    2010
    Rd 1: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best
    Rd 2: Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty

    2011
    Rd 1: Mark Ingram
    Rd 2: Ryan Williams, Shane Vereen, Mike LeShoure, Daniel Thomas
    You bolded Warrick Dunn and left off Alstott, and Johston. You got something against Fullbacks? nothing wrong with Ironhead from Passaic either. Not the greatest, but certainly not the worst pick.
    Last edited by NY's stepchild; 07-03-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    This made me curious to see the success/failure rate of 1st vs. 2nd round RB picks over the past 25 years (those I regard as confirmed studs in bold and NY Jets in Green). I was shocked at just how many RB busts there are in both of these rounds. I found about a 2:1 ratio of studs in Round 1 (17):Round 2 (8), which seems about right. Plenty of busts in both:

    1987
    Rd 1: Alonzo Highsmith, Brent Fullwood, DJ Dozier, Paul Palmer, Roger Vick, Rod Bernstein (this could be the worst crop of 1st round RBs all time)
    Rd 2: Kenny Flowers, Chrisitan Okoye, Don Smith

    1988
    Rd 1: Gaston Green, John Stephens, Lorenzo White, Brad Muster, Craig Heyward (well this bunch is just as f-ing awful as 1987)
    Rd 2: Icky (Shuffle) Woods, Tony Jeffrey, Thurmon Thomas, Lars Tate

    1989
    Rd 1: Barry Sanders, Tim Worley, Sammie Smith, Cleveland Gary
    Rd 2: Eric Ball, Daryl Johnston

    1990
    Rd 1: Blair Thomas, Emmitt Smith, Darrell Thomson, Steve Broussard, Rodney Hampton, Dexter Carter
    Rd 2: Reggie Cobb, Anthony Thompson, Anthony Johnson, Harold Green, Leroy Hoard

    1991
    Rd 1: Leonard Russell, Harvey Williams
    Rd 2: Eric Bieniemy, Nick Bell, Ricky Waters

    1992
    Rd 1: Tommy Vardell, Tony Smith, Vaughn Dunbar
    Rd 2: Amp Lee, Siran Stacy

    1993
    Rd 1: Garrison Hearst, Jerome Bettis, Robert Smith
    Rd 2: Natrone Means, Glyn Milburn, Roosevelt Potts

    1994
    Rd 1: Marshall Faulk, Greg Hill, William Floyd
    Rd 2: Eric Rhett, Chuck Levy, Charlie Garner, Mario Bates, Donnell Bennett

    1995
    Rd 1: Ki-Jana Carter, Tyrone Wheatley, Napolean Kaufman, James Stewart, Rashaan Salaam
    Rd 2: Ray Zellars, Sherman Williams, Terrell Fletcher

    1996
    Rd 1: Lawrence Phillips, Tim Biakabutuka, Eddie George
    Rd 2: Leeland McElroy, Mike Alstott

    1997
    Rd 1: Warrick Dunn, Antowain Smith
    Rd 2: Tiki Barber, Bryan Hanspard, Corey Dillon, Marc Edwards

    1998
    Rd 1: Curtis Enis, Fred Taylor, Robert Edwards, John Avery
    Rd 2: Robert Holcombe

    1999
    Rd 1: Edge James
    Rd 2: J.J. Johnson, Kevin Faulk, Joe Montgomery, Mike Cloud, Jermaine Fazande

    2000
    Rd 1: Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Ron Dayne, Shaun Alexander, Trung Canidate
    Rd 2: none

    2001
    Rd 1: LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Michael Bennett
    Rd 2: Anthony Thomas, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry

    2002
    Rd 1: William Green, T.J. Duckett
    Rd 2: DeShaun Foster, Clinton Portis, LaDell Betts

    2003
    Rd 1: Willis McGahee, Larry Johnson
    Rd 2: none

    2004
    Rd 1: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones
    Rd 2: Tatum Bell, Julius Jones, Greg Jones

    2005
    Rd 1: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams
    Rd 2: J.J. Arrington, Eric Shelton

    2006
    Rd 1: Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai
    Rd 2: Lendale White, Maurice Jones-Drew

    2007
    Rd 1: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch
    Rd 2: Kenny Irons, Chris Henry, Brian Leonard, Brandon Jackson

    2008
    Rd 1: Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson
    Rd 2: Matt Forte, Ray Rice

    2009
    Rd 1: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells
    Rd 2: LeSean McCoy

    2010
    Rd 1: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best
    Rd 2: Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty

    2011
    Rd 1: Mark Ingram
    Rd 2: Ryan Williams, Shane Vereen, Mike LeShoure, Daniel Thomas
    Yes but what about Doak Walker?

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    You have learned a valuable lesson about "talking football" with Statz.

    see, it's not logic that's most important. You need to be able to post at least 500 words containing mostly names and stats, interspersed with with awkward phrases. and yes, if you disagree you "know nothing about football."
    Ala. Don't forget the ala.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
    Yes but what about Doak Walker?
    What about rookie of the year Lenard Russell?

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcat View Post
    This made me curious to see the success/failure rate of 1st vs. 2nd round RB picks over the past 25 years (those I regard as confirmed studs in bold and NY Jets in Green). I was shocked at just how many RB busts there are in both of these rounds. I found about a 2:1 ratio of studs in Round 1 (17):Round 2 (8), which seems about right. Plenty of busts in both:

    1987
    Rd 1: Alonzo Highsmith, Brent Fullwood, DJ Dozier, Paul Palmer, Roger Vick, Rod Bernstein (this could be the worst crop of 1st round RBs all time)
    Rd 2: Kenny Flowers, Chrisitan Okoye, Don Smith

    1988
    Rd 1: Gaston Green, John Stephens, Lorenzo White, Brad Muster, Craig Heyward (well this bunch is just as f-ing awful as 1987)
    Rd 2: Icky (Shuffle) Woods, Tony Jeffrey, Thurmon Thomas, Lars Tate

    1989
    Rd 1: Barry Sanders, Tim Worley, Sammie Smith, Cleveland Gary
    Rd 2: Eric Ball, Daryl Johnston

    1990
    Rd 1: Blair Thomas, Emmitt Smith, Darrell Thomson, Steve Broussard, Rodney Hampton, Dexter Carter
    Rd 2: Reggie Cobb, Anthony Thompson, Anthony Johnson, Harold Green, Leroy Hoard

    1991
    Rd 1: Leonard Russell, Harvey Williams
    Rd 2: Eric Bieniemy, Nick Bell, Ricky Waters

    1992
    Rd 1: Tommy Vardell, Tony Smith, Vaughn Dunbar
    Rd 2: Amp Lee, Siran Stacy

    1993
    Rd 1: Garrison Hearst, Jerome Bettis, Robert Smith
    Rd 2: Natrone Means, Glyn Milburn, Roosevelt Potts

    1994
    Rd 1: Marshall Faulk, Greg Hill, William Floyd
    Rd 2: Eric Rhett, Chuck Levy, Charlie Garner, Mario Bates, Donnell Bennett

    1995
    Rd 1: Ki-Jana Carter, Tyrone Wheatley, Napolean Kaufman, James Stewart, Rashaan Salaam
    Rd 2: Ray Zellars, Sherman Williams, Terrell Fletcher

    1996
    Rd 1: Lawrence Phillips, Tim Biakabutuka, Eddie George
    Rd 2: Leeland McElroy, Mike Alstott

    1997
    Rd 1: Warrick Dunn, Antowain Smith
    Rd 2: Tiki Barber, Bryan Hanspard, Corey Dillon, Marc Edwards

    1998
    Rd 1: Curtis Enis, Fred Taylor, Robert Edwards, John Avery
    Rd 2: Robert Holcombe

    1999
    Rd 1: Edge James
    Rd 2: J.J. Johnson, Kevin Faulk, Joe Montgomery, Mike Cloud, Jermaine Fazande

    2000
    Rd 1: Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Ron Dayne, Shaun Alexander, Trung Canidate
    Rd 2: none

    2001
    Rd 1: LaDainian Tomlinson, Deuce McAllister, Michael Bennett
    Rd 2: Anthony Thomas, LaMont Jordan, Travis Henry

    2002
    Rd 1: William Green, T.J. Duckett
    Rd 2: DeShaun Foster, Clinton Portis, LaDell Betts

    2003
    Rd 1: Willis McGahee, Larry Johnson
    Rd 2: none

    2004
    Rd 1: Steven Jackson, Chris Perry, Kevin Jones
    Rd 2: Tatum Bell, Julius Jones, Greg Jones

    2005
    Rd 1: Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams
    Rd 2: J.J. Arrington, Eric Shelton

    2006
    Rd 1: Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai
    Rd 2: Lendale White, Maurice Jones-Drew

    2007
    Rd 1: Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch
    Rd 2: Kenny Irons, Chris Henry, Brian Leonard, Brandon Jackson

    2008
    Rd 1: Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson
    Rd 2: Matt Forte, Ray Rice

    2009
    Rd 1: Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells
    Rd 2: LeSean McCoy

    2010
    Rd 1: C.J. Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Jahvid Best
    Rd 2: Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty

    2011
    Rd 1: Mark Ingram
    Rd 2: Ryan Williams, Shane Vereen, Mike LeShoure, Daniel Thomas
    You must have taken some time in order to look all that up, so I credit you for that. I do feel that Daryl "Moose" Johnston should be in bold. One of the greatest run blocking FB's who led the way for Smith throughout the 90's. Mike Alstott was also one of the greatest/most powerful running FB's I've ever seen. Rodney Hamton was another player listed on that list, which game me flashback memories of the early 90's. One hell of a powerful HB during his prime years. Didn't last too long though. His style of rushing attack wouldn't allow it. Loved Natrone Means, but he quickly broke down as well.

    All in all, I'd like to see a list of 1st/2nd round QB's over the years as well... There would be just as many bust's, if not more. Same goes for the WR position etc, etc.

  20. #100
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    All I'm saying is this... If you want an elite RB? A true game changing, impact type of running back? You draft during the 1st and 2nd rounds. Look at all these HOF Backs. 1st rounders. Look at the elite talents of today's NFL? 1st and 2nd rounders with an occasional Foster type of diamond in the rough. Not which, but how many late rounders can compare with the likes of Adrian Peterson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Lashawn McCoy, Jones-Drew, Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson, Jonathan Stewart etc, etc? These are the premier RB's of today's NFL.

    If you're not willing to see our front office go RB during the 1st round (I know I am), I don't believe that you have a right to complain about Shonn Greene's production. We paid for a 3rd rounder, which is what we have. A solid 3rd rounder at that. Release Shonn Greene today? And he's picked up by 31 NFL teams around the league by tomorrow.

    The kid rushed for over 1,000 yards as a 1st year starter/3rd year player. Put up an average of 4.2 yards per carry behind an offensive line that became completely depleted by seasons end. Not sure what anyone else can expect out of an early 3rd round back? He rushed the ball 9 fewer times than Chris Johnson, but still put up 7 rushing yards more than CJ. Was only 37 rushing yards shy of cracking the top 10. His 6 rushing TD's tied Fred Jackson, Bush, Benson, Tebow and Mathews. Only 1 rushing TD behind DeAngelo Williams and Brandon Jacobs. Only 2 rushing TD's behind Frank Gore and Jones-Drew. Last but not least, only 3 rushing TD's away from cracking the top 10. On a side note, Greene was only 6 first downs runs away from cracking the top 10 and only 12 rushing 1st downs away from cracking the top 5.

    You put a healthy offensive line in front of Shonn Greene, with opposing defenses having to respect our Quarterbacks ability? And who knows how productive Shonn Greene can truly become. Top 10 back? No. Competes as a top 12-15 back? Without question. If he breaks out as a 2nd year starter/4th year player, as a fan base? We could be on the verge of considering Greene (production wise) a top 10 back heading into next offseason.

    I want an explosive Adrian Peterson, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Lashawn McCoy, Jones-Drew, Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson and Jonathan Stewart type of 1st round talent as well, but I'm also thankful that we have Shonn Greene as a cheap, productive, 3rd round back moving forward (for the time being).

    Many fans quickly forget, how Shonn Greene feasted during the 2009 playoffs. Combined for 44 rushing attempts, 263 rushing yards, an average of 5.9 yards per carry to go along with 2 rushing TD's (against the Bengals and Chargers). When Shonn Greene went down against the Colts after rushing for 41 yards off of 10 carries? Our offense went to crap.

    Even during the 2010 playoffs, Shonn Greene was productive. Put the dagger in against the Patriots with a 20 yard rushing TD during the 4th quarter. Also rushed for an average of 4.5 yards per carry on the road in NE. Rushed for a total of 76 yards, which doesn't sound much, but still comes out to an average of 1,216 yards during a 16 game season. What about the Steelers games? Blame Shotty Jr for getting away from the run. Greene had 52 rushes after only 9 rushing attempts; an average of 5.8 yards per carry against a great Steelers run defense.

    I'm actually looking forward to a more powerful rushing attack being led by Greene and Tebow with Sparano putting the offensive game plan together.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 07-03-2012 at 11:21 AM.

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