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Thread: Greene - not very impressive (inherently) & his 2009 playoff meal ticket is expired

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    No, I mean guys such as...

    Reggie Bush: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Darren McFadden: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Cedric Benson: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Adrian Peterson: 1st round, 7th overall.
    Marshawn Lynch: 1st round, 12th overall.
    Ryan Matthews: 1st round, 12th overall.
    Jonathan Stewart: 1st round, 13th overall.
    Rashard Mendenhall: 1st round, 23rd overall.
    Willis McGahee: 1st round, 23rd overall.
    Chris Johnson: 1st round, 24th overall.
    Steven Jackson: 1st round, 24th overall.
    Beanie Wells: 1st round, 31st overall.
    Matt Forte: 2nd round, 44th overall.
    LeSean McCoy: 2nd round, 53rd overall.
    Ray Rice:2nd round, 55th overall.
    Maurice Jones-Drew: 2nd round, 60th overall.

    As you can see, exactly half of the NFL's starting RB's were drafted during either the 1st or 2nd rounds. 50% of teams feature either 1st or 2nd round draft picks as starting HB's.

    So, if you're not willing to see our front office spend a 1st round draft pick on a running back, then you have no right complaining about the ability/talent/potential of Shonn Greene. Sometimes you get what you pay for, and in our case? We paid for a 3rd round talent in Shonn Greene who's coming off a 1,000 yard season to go along with an average of 4.2 yards per carry (as a first year starter/3rd year player).

    The sky isn't falling...
    Wouldn't this mean that EXACTLY half the starting running backs in the league are taken in rounds 3 or later? Wouldn't that support NOT spending a high pick on a RB? Why waste a 1 or a 2 on a RB when I am just as successful in the later rounds?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythonpete View Post
    Wouldn't this mean that EXACTLY half the starting running backs in the league are taken in rounds 3 or later? Wouldn't that support NOT spending a high pick on a RB? Why waste a 1 or a 2 on a RB when I am just as successful in the later rounds?
    Gotta love the newb shooting holes in DWC's ridiculous statistics.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythonpete View Post
    Wouldn't this mean that EXACTLY half the starting running backs in the league are taken in rounds 3 or later? Wouldn't that support NOT spending a high pick on a RB? Why waste a 1 or a 2 on a RB when I am just as successful in the later rounds?
    Nailed it.

    This is why they say statistics don't lie, only statisticians do.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    I never been a fan of this guy from the get go (hated the draft pick), and his career with us has been highlighted by a few "run of mill" Lamont Jordan runs in the playoffs and a library of boring game tape in between





    I'd honestly be OK with cutting him. not sure if that's plausible from a cap stand point but i fail to see what Greene brings to the table any more. TERRIBLE hands, poor YAC, and no top speed. Powell as sucky as he is, can do the same. I'd rather have Tebow back there all day.

    Give him McKnight, Ganaway the keys to the cadillac.

    I agree with all your criticisms in his game. I don't even know if there's one trait about him that I would call "great" or even above average. 2.5 years ago, I would have laughed at that comment. Back then, I thought he was closer to becoming Michael Turner than LaMont Jordan. In his rookie year, I thought he showed impressive initial burst for a big guy. I never thought he had great lateral quickness, but I thought between the combination of burst and power, he could be a solid lead back.

    To his credit, I think he's made a little bit of progress with regards to catching the ball. He still sucks at it, but he's gotten better. Part of the problem is that Sanchez doesn't put nearly enough touch on his screen and dump off passes. More importantly, IMO, he needs to work on his pass protection...as crappy as a guy like Turner is at catching balls, he's at least competent enough to protect the QB. Between him and McKnight, I'm terrified of our RBs ability to pass pro this year.

    But for a guy whose cap hit is roughly $850K, we're getting good value out of him this year. Run his ass into the ground this season and kick him to the curb in 2013.

  5. #45
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    they got greene in there pretty quick didn't they? the problem is schitty decided to go with tomlinson more. if greene couldn't beat out lt at that stage in his career then it's time for someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveInNNJ View Post
    The Jets are always slow handing the keys. Instead, they like eeking out every single play out of every single players (even if their not long term Jets), and then trade / cut them. Greene is one of, if not the biggest problems the Jets have right now. For a ground and pound team, this organization is way behind the eight ball. It's quite disappointing.

  6. #46
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    And Greene was a 3rd round pick, same day that 2nd rounders are drafted.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythonpete View Post
    Wouldn't this mean that EXACTLY half the starting running backs in the league are taken in rounds 3 or later? Wouldn't that support NOT spending a high pick on a RB? Why waste a 1 or a 2 on a RB when I am just as successful in the later rounds?
    Yes...if that other half you were referring to was actually good.

    Of the backs that rushed for 1,000 yards last year, here's the list of them who were drafted after the first 2 rounds:

    Arian Foster
    Frank Gore
    Michael Turner
    Shonn Greene

    The other 11 guys who picked up 1,000 in 2011 were all drafted in the 1st or 2nd.

    I do agree with the posters who say you can't just rely on high picks to produce. But it's short-sighted to say you're "just as successful" in the later rounds when productive backs are in slim pickings outside of the list you quoted. More often than not, you get guys like Greene who can get it done behind a great OL but are merely average when asked to get yards on their own.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chihuahua View Post
    Gracias Jesus that you are not our GM!
    LOL. Who was this guy? I knew that was a dual nic.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
    Yes...if that other half you were referring to was actually good.

    Of the backs that rushed for 1,000 yards last year, here's the list of them who were drafted after the first 2 rounds:

    Arian Foster
    Frank Gore
    Michael Turner
    Shonn Greene

    The other 11 guys who picked up 1,000 in 2011 were all drafted in the 1st or 2nd.

    I do agree with the posters who say you can't just rely on high picks to produce. But it's short-sighted to say you're "just as successful" in the later rounds when productive backs are in slim pickings outside of the list you quoted. More often than not, you get guys like Greene who can get it done behind a great OL but are merely average when asked to get yards on their own.
    However there was only 1 back that made 2,000 yds that wasn't a 1st rd pick.. But you can get a good back pretty much any rd or like Foster UDFA..

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sec.101row23 View Post
    Well to be fair, Greene was the first pick in the third round(pick 64), and the Jets did move up 12 spots to get him. I would think the Jets expected more from Greene. Its not like he was a 7th round pick that they thought would maybe make the 53 man roster.
    Exactly.

    And while I'm not a big fan of Greene, I'd like to keep him as a #2 back moving forward. Jets need to find a #1. Powell is not that guy. Gannaway? I've never seen him play. I'll have a better feel during the pre-season games. But I'm not counting on him to be a #1, in a committee format or otherwise.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythonpete View Post
    Wouldn't this mean that EXACTLY half the starting running backs in the league are taken in rounds 3 or later? Wouldn't that support NOT spending a high pick on a RB? Why waste a 1 or a 2 on a RB when I am just as successful in the later rounds?
    You're wrong as wrong could be. Trent Richardson's going to become Cleveland's #1 back from day one. That's 17 of 32 starting RB's drafted during the 1st/2nd rounds. No longer 50%. Doug Martin is going to replace LeGarrette Blount as TB's feature back. That's 18 of 32 1st/2nd round starters. And if (key word being 'if') C.J Spiller (1st rounder) replaces Jackson and David Wilson (1st rounders) replaces Bradshaw as NYG's #1 backs (both real possibilities); we're easily looking at 20 out of 32 starting RB's in which were drafted during the 1st and 2nd rounds. What does this tell me? If you want an elite starting talent at the RB position? You draft 1st/2nd rounds. Not the other way around.

    Now, you said something that made zero sense. How does (over) 50% of starting RB's being drafted during the 1st and 2nd rounds, "prove" that "NOT taking a RB during the 1st and 2nd rounds" is the way to go? It doesn't. How many later round backs are currently competing with the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Jones-Drew, Matt Forte, Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Lashawn McCoy, Rice etc, etc? Exactly. Proves your little theory wrong as wrong could be; that's unless you can show me the late rounders putting up as much production as the one's I've mentioned. Good luck with that, because you're wrong.

    Last but not least, lets not forget to mention the fact, when in regards to the modern day HB, that 22 of 27 HOF HB's were selected during the 1st round.

    OJ Simpson: 1st round, 1st overall
    Earl Campbell: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Paul Hornung: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Charley Trippi: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Tony Dorsett: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Marshall Faulk: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Eric Dickerson: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Barry Sanders: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Doak Walker: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Ollie Matson: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Walter Payton: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Gale Sayers: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Jim Brown: 1st round, 6th overall.
    Floyd Little: 1st round, 6th overall.
    John Riggins: 1st round, 6th overall.
    Larry Csonka: 1st round, 8th overall.
    Hugh McElhenny: 1st round, 9th overall.
    Lenny Moore: 1st round, 9th overall.
    Marcus Allen: 1st round, 10th overall.
    Frank Gifford: 1st round, 11th overall.
    Franco Harris: 1st round, 13th overall.
    Emmitt Smith: 1st round, 17th overall.

    I'll never understand why Jet fans are so against the drafting of an impact RB (potentially) during the 1st round, especially considering the fact that we're not only on the verge of seeing 18-19 starting RB's (all) as former 1st round draft selections, but also 22/27 HOF HB's were drafted during the first round. Sometimes you have to reach for great success/production. So instead, they'd rather complain that Shonn Greene isn't an All-Pro or future HOF talent despite the fact that we're getting what we've paid for ala a cheap 3rd round draft selection in which just rushed for 1,000+ yards along with an average of 4.2 yards per carry as a 1st year starter/3rd year player.
    Last edited by NY2FLDWC85; 07-02-2012 at 06:26 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    I'll never understand why Jet fans are so against the drafting of an impact RB (potentially) during the 1st round, .
    In jet history we have spent a 1st pick on 7 backs.. I'm leaving the compiler out even though he cost us a 1st and a 3rd he was a Pat pick.. And they are..

    Matt Snell,Lee White,John Riggens,Anthony Davis,Freeman McNeil,Roger Vick, and the world famous Blair Thomas..

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post

    I'll never understand why Jet fans are so against the drafting of an impact RB (potentially) during the 1st round.
    Maybe because they remember Roger Vick and the immortal Blair Thomas.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    No, I mean guys such as...

    Reggie Bush: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Darren McFadden: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Cedric Benson: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Adrian Peterson: 1st round, 7th overall.
    Marshawn Lynch: 1st round, 12th overall.
    Ryan Matthews: 1st round, 12th overall.
    Jonathan Stewart: 1st round, 13th overall.
    Rashard Mendenhall: 1st round, 23rd overall.
    Willis McGahee: 1st round, 23rd overall.
    Chris Johnson: 1st round, 24th overall.
    Steven Jackson: 1st round, 24th overall.
    Beanie Wells: 1st round, 31st overall.
    Matt Forte: 2nd round, 44th overall.
    LeSean McCoy: 2nd round, 53rd overall.
    Ray Rice:2nd round, 55th overall.
    Maurice Jones-Drew: 2nd round, 60th overall.

    As you can see, exactly half of the NFL's starting RB's were drafted during either the 1st or 2nd rounds. 50% of teams feature either 1st or 2nd round draft picks as starting HB's.

    So, if you're not willing to see our front office spend a 1st round draft pick on a running back, then you have no right complaining about the ability/talent/potential of Shonn Greene. Sometimes you get what you pay for, and in our case? We paid for a 3rd round talent in Shonn Greene who's coming off a 1,000 yard season to go along with an average of 4.2 yards per carry (as a first year starter/3rd year player).

    The sky isn't falling...
    Isn't DeAngelo Williams the starter in Carolina?

  15. #55
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    I thought KC got a steal signing Hillis to a 1 year 3 mill deal.

    He will be poised to perform in a contract year, has proven to be a beast in a crappy football town, and although he lacks the change of pace back the Jets will direly miss this year..........he would have been a solid 1-2 punch with Shonn Greene.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage69 View Post
    In jet history we have spent a 1st pick on 7 backs.. I'm leaving the compiler out even though he cost us a 1st and a 3rd he was a Pat pick.. And they are..

    Matt Snell,Lee White,John Riggens,Anthony Davis,Freeman McNeil,Roger Vick, and the world famous Blair Thomas..
    What does that have to do in regards to our franchise moving forward? How many of those RB's were drafted by Tanny? If front offices such as the Vikings, Titans, Bears, Jaguars, Raiders, Eagles, Ravens etc all had this same thought process heading into the draft? They wouldn't have some of the greatest RB's in the game today.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    What does that have to do in regards to our franchise moving forward? How many of those RB's were drafted by Tanny? If front offices such as the Vikings, Titans, Bears, Jaguars, Raiders, Eagles, Ravens etc all had this same thought process heading into the draft? They wouldn't have some of the greatest RB's in the game today.
    How many Super Bowls have those teams won in the last 10 years?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    What does that have to do in regards to our franchise moving forward? How many of those RB's were drafted by Tanny? If front offices such as the Vikings, Titans, Bears, Jaguars, Raiders, Eagles, Ravens etc all had this same thought process heading into the draft? They wouldn't have some of the greatest RB's in the game today.
    The problem we have DWC is I look at the team since it's start as the Titans because I was there..You think it started when you became a fan.. Name the last great RB that was on a Super Bowl winning team.. And don't say Bettis.. I would say Marshall Faulk..

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY2FLDWC85 View Post
    You're wrong as wrong could be. Trent Richardson's going to become Cleveland's #1 back from day one. That's 17 of 32 starting RB's drafted during the 1st/2nd rounds. No longer 50%. Doug Martin is going to replace LeGarrette Blount as TB's feature back. That's 18 of 32 1st/2nd round starters. And if (key word being 'if') C.J Spiller (1st rounder) replaces Jackson and David Wilson (1st rounders) replaces Bradshaw as NYG's #1 backs (both real possibilities); we're easily looking at 20 out of 32 starting RB's in which were drafted during the 1st and 2nd rounds. What does this tell me? If you want an elite starting talent at the RB position? You draft 1st/2nd rounds. Not the other way around.

    Now, you said something that made zero sense. How does (over) 50% of starting RB's being drafted during the 1st and 2nd rounds, "prove" that "NOT taking a RB during the 1st and 2nd rounds" is the way to go? It doesn't. How many later round backs are currently competing with the likes of Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Jones-Drew, Matt Forte, Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Lashawn McCoy, Rice etc, etc? Exactly. Proves your little theory wrong as wrong could be; that's unless you can show me the late rounders putting up as much production as the one's I've mentioned. Good luck with that, because you're wrong.

    Last but not least, lets not forget to mention the fact, when in regards to the modern day HB, that 22 of 27 HOF HB's were selected during the 1st round.

    OJ Simpson: 1st round, 1st overall
    Earl Campbell: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Paul Hornung: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Charley Trippi: 1st round, 1st overall.
    Tony Dorsett: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Marshall Faulk: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Eric Dickerson: 1st round, 2nd overall.
    Barry Sanders: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Doak Walker: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Ollie Matson: 1st round, 3rd overall.
    Walter Payton: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Gale Sayers: 1st round, 4th overall.
    Jim Brown: 1st round, 6th overall.
    Floyd Little: 1st round, 6th overall.
    John Riggins: 1st round, 6th overall.
    Larry Csonka: 1st round, 8th overall.
    Hugh McElhenny: 1st round, 9th overall.
    Lenny Moore: 1st round, 9th overall.
    Marcus Allen: 1st round, 10th overall.
    Frank Gifford: 1st round, 11th overall.
    Franco Harris: 1st round, 13th overall.
    Emmitt Smith: 1st round, 17th overall.

    I'll never understand why Jet fans are so against the drafting of an impact RB (potentially) during the 1st round, especially considering the fact that we're not only on the verge of seeing 18-19 starting RB's (all) as former 1st round draft selections, but also 22/27 HOF HB's were drafted during the first round. Sometimes you have to reach for great success/production. So instead, they'd rather complain that Shonn Greene isn't an All-Pro or future HOF talent despite the fact that we're getting what we've paid for ala a cheap 3rd round draft selection in which just rushed for 1,000+ yards along with an average of 4.2 yards per carry as a 1st year starter/3rd year player.
    are you SERIOUSLY trying to make a point using Doak Walker as evidence?

    Do you think the NFL may have changed just a bit since then?

  20. #60
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    Greene isn't awful, nor is he great. He's a middle-of-the-line back who needs the ball 20-30x a game to really get going and make things happen. You can't have him take the ball 12-15 times and expect big plays. He isn't that type of back. He's a bruiser who needs that ball preferably 25-30x a game to wear a defense down and hit them where it hurts late in the game. He'll be asked to fill that role in Sparano's offense this year. Will he stay healthy is the question.

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